How long should the so-called oath keepers have to go to jail for? what about the BLM rioters?

[JGalt]

The courts sent the same message to the trolls filing lawsuit claiming fraud.

Those same courts refused to look at the evidence.

 

[Circe]

It's the 'fall' of the Republic, its smooth transition into the Empire, that is more relevant. Catiline, the Gracchis, Caesar ... threats to the Roman Establishment who paid the price. "Revolution within the Form" as some call it. Read Mary Beard's SPQR.

I didn't like the SPQR (Senatus Populusque Romanus) by Beard at all --- superficial, didn't swing --- but if you want to talk about the Gracchi bros. and modern-day Leftists, wow, the book by Mike Duncan The Storm Before the Storm is GREAT. It's about the second and early first century BC politics and LURID?? I read it and now am listening to it from Audible (I'm sort of into Roman history.) Those Gracchi brothers were just simply damn commies! Of course the French revolutionaries made them into painted saints, but they just would. Would that be "Revolution Within the Forum"? Those senators in Rome were not up with communism and they did kind of cut off one of the bros. heads inside the forum, and it was the senators doing it. Darn, talk about Jan. 6, I'd say the Roman senators 1, coup d'etat guys zero. Not like our senators, though ours were indeed very angry, espec. Pence and Pelosi. People get angry when they feel threatened, I know I do.

As for Catiline, I am struggling through the First Catiline at this time, yuck. I really dislike Cicero. I have to say, that guy was seriously negative. Still, he got his (hairpin through the tongue in the end, but they detached the head first, happily) so I should perhaps be more forgiving, despite that extremely difficult SYNTAX.

 

[Circe]

Almost any public patriot group must be assumed to be infiltrated -- by one or more levels of police, and/or by the Left. AND .. almost as bad, you can get marginal, semi-criminal types attracted to anything that looks like a militia. They then get blackmailed by the police into turning informant. If you're in the right state, youi can insist everyone get a Concealed Carry permit, which usually involves a background check. That will weed out some of the criminals, but not the police

Agreed; and my husband just got a concealed carry permit, Maryland now under protest allows it. I know, it's a travesty to require such things. And migod, you have to give references, all sorts of personal info --- I didn't even want to know.

The thing is, if you're in an organization, even one which is careful to be legal, you are still at risk of being 'doxxed'.

True; I got doxxed once years ago; the details are bad enough that I don't think I'll go into it, but it was personal animus on the part of the bad guy. Come to think of it, I probably deserved it.

Yes, I recall the entrapment of the Muslims after 9/11. There was more than one of those, well-publicized, intended to warn us.

Infiltrators sometimes give themselves away: their grasp of our politics will be crude, mechanical, clumsy. Because they don't really believe it. Often they sound like a caricature of what a conservative is. They secretly think we're evil, and will sometimes claim to believe evil things because they think that's what we believe.

Yeah, I met one, once. It was when SDS had their headquarters in Chicago; I did zip-coding of their mailing list. (What can I say --- I was young. There was the Vietnam War.) They were a shrimpy, badly nourished group, the main people -- but there was this guy, big, strong, well-nourished, big nice boots. I was very young and ignorant, but I made him for a narc right away. Duh, not subtle.

He started talking about how people needed to take action, to put our actions where our mouths were.

I figured it out and decided I wasn't really all that committed to The Cause and didn't come back after that.

People change their minds about things under the impact of events. We can help ... we can be there, pointing things out, drawing lessons, talking to people, getting them drawn in to common actions with us.

That's what a lot of people right here are doing now. I don't think anyone needs to DO anything because things will happen --- and very, very fast. (Everything big happens very fast, like the bank SVB collapsing in 36 hours.)

 

[jbander]

Many different reasons......like getting a solid conviction? Touchy feely prog lib prosecutors and DA?

Capitol of what, Iraq?

That is exactly what your type at the capital did , they shit all over the floors and pissed all over the floors , that puts into a capsule exactly who you people are, you guys are a real class act. Scum is the word the patriots of this country use to describe you traitors.

 

[The5thHorseman]

View attachment 732717

Pictured Above is Jessica Watkins who is a so-called insurrectionist. So she is going to take our country over? So that’s it, those are the big bad wolf? We’re supposed to be scared of them? Come on now looks more like she and her cohorts had some mental issues. Appears that some of these “insurrectionists” couldn’t handle a job at McDonald’s let alone take over a country.

This can’t be reality right folks. I would hope that we could all see that the idea that these few dozen people had any sort of an ability to overturn the election is fraudulent. Bc in order to overtake a country one needs tanks and jets, A military. The idea that these “oath keepers “were somehow capable of overthrowing the election is absurd. They are about as much of a threat as the angry old white man who is still racist against blacks…

She faces a 20 year maximum prison sentence that she’s already been convicted guilty of the crime she was charged with. As far as I know she illegally walked into the Capitol building on Jan . I don’t think she attacked anyone. As a Catholic the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Maybe she should get a few weeks in jail?

What about the BLM rioters burn down the Minnesota police station? That’s a government building it’s the same thing folks it is a official government building. And that was literally burn down. But guess what a January 6 the government building was not burned down. So what’s going on here this is clearly hypocrisy where are the trials for the BLM rioters?

The other end of it was considering some sort of a blanket immunity for BLM rioters and the January 6 rioters. Thinking of a way to bring the country together. Have Donald Trump and Joe Biden shake hands with each other. Seriously it’s about unity it’s about common sense the most violent offenders where the BLM rioters or January 6 rioters who are for example in fist fights with cops violently attacking people they should go to jail for more than a year but simply entering a government building illegally that does not warrant a 20 year prison sentence.

B...b...b.. but NEGROES!

 

[Doug1943]

I didn't like the SPQR (Senatus Populusque Romanus) by Beard at all --- superficial, didn't swing --- but if you want to talk about the Gracchi bros. and modern-day Leftists, wow, the book by Mike Duncan The Storm Before the Storm is GREAT. It's about the second and early first century BC politics and LURID?? I read it and now am listening to it from Audible (I'm sort of into Roman history.) Those Gracchi brothers were just simply damn commies! Of course the French revolutionaries made them into painted saints, but they just would. Would that be "Revolution Within the Forum"? Those senators in Rome were not up with communism and they did kind of cut off one of the bros. heads inside the forum, and it was the senators doing it. Darn, talk about Jan. 6, I'd say the Roman senators 1, coup d'etat guys zero. Not like our senators, though ours were indeed very angry, espec. Pence and Pelosi. People get angry when they feel threatened, I know I do.

As for Catiline, I am struggling through the First Catiline at this time, yuck. I really dislike Cicero. I have to say, that guy was seriously negative. Still, he got his (hairpin through the tongue in the end, but they detached the head first, happily) so I should perhaps be more forgiving, despite that extremely difficult SYNTAX.

Interesting! You know a LOT more about ancient Rome than I do. It's been a big gap in my knowledge, and a friend of mine (a retired Classics teacher) recommended the book by Beard. I'll try to get The Storm Before the Storm and read it. (I had held a prejudice against Mary Beard, ever since, afte 9/11, she said the Americans were just experiencing the chickens coming home to roost. But her book is well written -- the part I've read so far. She knows the limits of the historian trying to understand a different culture that existed two thousand years ago.)

As for the Gracchi's, etc. ... I'll withhold judgement until I read more. But ... when you get extremes of wealth, and in particular a lot of landless men who have been soldiers ... watch out! In the modern era, this usually ends badly for the wealthy landowners.

The British and American governments were smart, and initiated land redistribution (with compensation for the owners) in Ireland (the British) and in Taiwan and South Korea (the Americans). That's another area I need to learn more about.

Small landowners are the most conservative people on the planet. The French Revolution created a lot of them, and they've been a bulwark against communism in France ever since. It's the landless, the poor, the industrial workers being sweated for minimum wages who can't buy their own home ... that's the social base of leftwing radicalism.

Or it used to be. Today's Left couldn't care less about the workers, they actually have snobbish contempt for them.

Okay ... I would be grateful for more reading suggestions (any topic) and links to interesting websites.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Back in the old days, they didn't bother with jail sentences for traitors...it was a firing squad.

I'm glad we have evolved away from that.

By "traitor" you mean someone who opposes a STOLEN ELECTION.

FUCK YOU

 

[Doug1943]

Agreed; and my husband just got a concealed carry permit, Maryland now under protest allows it. I know, it's a travesty to require such things. And migod, you have to give references, all sorts of personal info --- I didn't even want to know.

True; I got doxxed once years ago; the details are bad enough that I don't think I'll go into it, but it was personal animus on the part of the bad guy. Come to think of it, I probably deserved it.

Yes, I recall the entrapment of the Muslims after 9/11. There was more than one of those, well-publicized, intended to warn us.

Yeah, I met one, once. It was when SDS had their headquarters in Chicago; I did zip-coding of their mailing list. (What can I say --- I was young. There was the Vietnam War.) They were a shrimpy, badly nourished group, the main people -- but there was this guy, big, strong, well-nourished, big nice boots. I was very young and ignorant, but I made him for a narc right away. Duh, not subtle.

He started talking about how people needed to take action, to put our actions where our mouths were.

I figured it out and decided I wasn't really all that committed to The Cause and didn't come back after that.


That's what a lot of people right here are doing now. I don't think anyone needs to DO anything because things will happen --- and very, very fast. (Everything big happens very fast, like the bank SVB collapsing in 36 hours.)

Whoa!!!!!!!!! You were in SDS??? In the National HQ???? Ha. So was I --- in SDS I mean, not the National Office -- (but as a Marxist, doing 'entry work' for the little sect of which I was a member). I went to the National Convention in 1967, in Ann Arbor. But I missed the really important convention, in 1969, where the Stalinist Progressive Labor Party fought it out with the 'National Office', who then destroyed the organization, and themselves split into varous kinds of Maoist/crazy -- from Venceremos, to the Weathermen, to the October League, and the Revolutionary Union.

The FBI had one guy in the faction that became the Weathermen, but stupid J. Edgar Hoover surfaced him early, to show Congress how on the case the FBI was ... so when the Weathermen began bombing things -- including themselves, in New York City -- there was no agent inside. (I read his biography, and ... he was OBVIOUSLY an agent ... they should have been able to spot him as one from a hundred yards. Like your guy. Maybe he was your guy.)

Accidents of history. Had PL been able to take over SDS, which had 100 000 members then and was growing ... who knows where they could have taken it. Fortunately, they had a politically-incorrect line on Black Nationalism (they were against it, as it divides the working class), so the National Office opportunists were able to rally a lot of support within the organization against them, with the help of the Black Panthers, who turned up at the convention and threatened to 'deal with' SDS if they didn't endorse Black Nationalism.

The Left, then, destroyed itself from within. First by faction fighting, and then, for the people who were against PL, by going off and gettng involved in crazy adventurism -- for which some of them paid with their lives (the clumsy bomb makers in New York who blew themselves up with the bomb they were intending for a dance at Fort Dix), or with very long prison sentences (the ones who got drawn into robberies and murders by opportunist Black criminals who realized that naive little white kids, especially the girls, were easy to con).

Lots of lessons here for our side: Unity, unity, unity. Reach out to the masses, don't isolate yourselves. Organize, both yourselves, and others. Don't get involved in romantic violence. Exercise your 2A rights, but remain legal and peaceful (until conditions make this impossible, of course). Rambo is not reality. (Most people "learn" how the world works from Hollywood. Thus all the crazy conspiracy theories and paranoid fantasies that circulate on the Right. The world as a James Bond movie.)

One other lesson from that period: the John Birch Society. Founded by a brilliant man (a child prodigy in his youth), who had studied the CPUSA and how it worked, and formed a patriotic equivalent. Excellent! Exactly right. A dedicated hard core, that does 'mass work'.

And then.... he decided that President Eisenhower was "a conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy". And that was the end of the Birchers as a serious force. They're still around today, God bless 'em, and do some good work, but they're mainly an object lesson for patriots in the importance of common sense.

Yes, events are the big educator. But we most definitely need to 'DO' things: if we are not ready, with a serious organization ... things won't turn out well. We could get fascism -- that's not an impossibility -- or something else almost as bad. Look at Latin America for lots of bad examples, both 'left wng' and 'right wing'. A political vacuum will always be filled.

Rebuilding a Constitutional Republic on the ruins, with whatever part of America we can do it in, requires conscious, organized effort -- just as the American Revolution did. Sitting passively is almost as bad as going out and doing something stupid that gets you arrested.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

That is exactly what your type at the capital did , they shit all over the floors and pissed all over the floors , that puts into a capsule exactly who you people are, you guys are a real class act. Scum is the word the patriots of this country use to describe you traitors.

.



Prove it, skrunt.



.

 

[martybegan]

The government in some places were sympathetic because the people made the argument over police initiated violence which was something they had no answer for.

People came to Trump on their knee's asking him to listen to their complaints and he called them, SOB's. When Trump supporters were arrested over 1/6 they whined and whined about how they were being treated unfairly.

The government doesn't get to decide to not be the government.

 

[pknopp]

The government doesn't get to decide to not be the government.

And yet as I pointed out, Trump decided he would be for some and the rest he would call SOB's.

 

[martybegan]

And yet as I pointed out, Trump decided he would be for some and the rest he would call SOB's.

Like the people who despise Trump wanted him to be "for them".

CHAZ/CHOP isn't national politics or partisan disagreements, It was a local government illegally deciding to give up its Sovereignty to a bunch of thugs, abandoning the residents in the area that did not want to go along with the Insurrection.

 

[schmidlap]

... What about ...

"Whaddaboutism" in no way mitigates the unprecedented, violent attempt to overthrow a certified, democratic election.

Our judicial system does not indulge in hyper-partisan games. Criminal charges are adjudicated on there own merits.

"Oh, yeah!
We;;, whaddabout...?"​

​

A rightwing extremist boasted of driving from Texas to Minneapolis to help set fire to a police precinct during the George Floyd protests, federal prosecutors said.​

​

US attorney Erica MacDonald said on Friday that she had charged Ivan Harrison Hunter, a 26-year-old Texas resident, with traveling across state lines to participate in a riot. The charges are the latest example of far-right extremists attempting to use violence to escalate national protests against police brutality into an uprising against the government, and even full civil war...​

​

Hunter is the third alleged “Boogaloo Boi” to be charged in connection with protests in Minneapolis. Across the country, the “Boogaloo” movement has been linked to more than two dozen arrests and at least five deaths this year, including the alleged plot to kidnap the Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer.​

​

‘Boogaloo Boi’ charged in fire of Minneapolis police precinct during George Floyd protest

Ivan Harrison Hunter, a Texas rightwing extremist, bragged about helping to set the fire then was seen shooting 13 rounds at the building

www.theguardian.com

​

 

[pknopp]

Like the people who despise Trump wanted him to be "for them".

A president is supposed to be a president of the entire country. We should expect a president to rise about petty politics. Granted we haven't had such a president in a long time.

Still the complaints to people brought to Trump are now in many case the Trump supporters are complaining about. Recall Amon Bundy sided with BLM because he knew their complaints were his also.

CHAZ/CHOP isn't national politics or partisan disagreements, It was a local government illegally deciding to give up its Sovereignty to a bunch of thugs, abandoning the residents in the area that did not want to go along with the Insurrection.

Nobody was abandoned.

 

[martybegan]

A president is supposed to be a president of the entire country. We should expect a president to rise about petty politics. Granted we haven't had such a president in a long time.

Still the complaints to people brought to Trump are now in many case the Trump supporters are complaining about. Recall Amon Bundy sided with BLM because he knew their complaints were his also.




Nobody was abandoned.

Bullshit. That's only called for when the "other guy" is in power.

My terrifying five-day stay inside Seattle’s cop-free CHAZ

 

[pknopp]

Bullshit. That's only called for when the "other guy" is in power.

My terrifying five-day stay inside Seattle’s cop-free CHAZ

Being as how for me it's always "the other guy in power", yes, that's what I am saying.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

Bullshit. That's only called for when the "other guy" is in power.

My terrifying five-day stay inside Seattle’s cop-free CHAZ

.

Great article illuminating the bottomless viciousness and authoritarian stupidity of the left.

.

 

[Doug1943]

"Whaddaboutism" in no way mitigates the unprecedented, violent attempt to overthrow a certified, democratic election.

Our judicial system does not indulge in hyper-partisan games. Criminal charges are adjudicated on there own merits.

View attachment 766577
"Oh, yeah!
We;;, whaddabout...?"​

​

A rightwing extremist boasted of driving from Texas to Minneapolis to help set fire to a police precinct during the George Floyd protests, federal prosecutors said.​

​

US attorney Erica MacDonald said on Friday that she had charged Ivan Harrison Hunter, a 26-year-old Texas resident, with traveling across state lines to participate in a riot. The charges are the latest example of far-right extremists attempting to use violence to escalate national protests against police brutality into an uprising against the government, and even full civil war...​

​

Hunter is the third alleged “Boogaloo Boi” to be charged in connection with protests in Minneapolis. Across the country, the “Boogaloo” movement has been linked to more than two dozen arrests and at least five deaths this year, including the alleged plot to kidnap the Michigan governor, Gretchen Whitmer.​

​

‘Boogaloo Boi’ charged in fire of Minneapolis police precinct during George Floyd protest

Ivan Harrison Hunter, a Texas rightwing extremist, bragged about helping to set the fire then was seen shooting 13 rounds at the building

www.theguardian.com

​

Of course it's in the interests of the Left to call the "Boogaloo Bois" "rightwing". It's a war, and each side uses whatever it can get to smear the other side.

If we were talking about, say, the various "militia" groups around the country, it would not be wrong to locate most of them, politically, on the Right. [There are some Leftist equivalents of the militias, the John Brown Gun Clubs and Socialist Rifle Associations, but far fewer.]

But the "Boogaloo Bois" are different. They're a product of the ongoing disintegration of the consensus that has held America together for over two centuries.

They have no settled political views -- some of them turned up at BLM protests because they also hate the police and sympathyzed with BLM. What they claim to want is for the coming civil war to be accelerated. They're closer to being nihilists than to anything political. (And I'd be willing to bet that some of the online 'Boogaloo Bois' are actual Russian glavset members, doing their bit to stir up violence in the US.)

Two years ago, I debated with some of them on Facebook, in connection with a pro-2A demonstration in Virginia. They're not political, Left or Right. In fact, in their opposition to the police (and, in one case, to the military -- one of them had a meme celebrating the deaths of National Guardsmen), they're closer to the hard Left. But they're not Leftists either -- they are not political.

They're sort of like the looters and rioters who come out to throw rocks and the police and maybe get a flatscreen TV, who aren't AntiFa or BLM, just lumpen criminals.

 

[schmidlap]

Of course it's in the interests of the Left to call the "Boogaloo Bois" "rightwing". It's a war, and each side uses whatever it can get to smear the other side.

If we were talking about, say, the various "militia" groups around the country, it would not be wrong to locate most of them, politically, on the Right. [There are some Leftist equivalents of the militias, the John Brown Gun Clubs and Socialist Rifle Associations, but far fewer.]

But the "Boogaloo Bois" are different. They're a product of the ongoing disintegration of the consensus that has held America together for over two centuries.

They have no settled political views -- some of them turned up at BLM protests because they also hate the police and sympathyzed with BLM. What they claim to want is for the coming civil war to be accelerated. They're closer to being nihilists than to anything political. (And I'd be willing to bet that some of the online 'Boogaloo Bois' are actual Russian glavset members, doing their bit to stir up violence in the US.)

Two years ago, I debated with some of them on Facebook, in connection with a pro-2A demonstration in Virginia. They're not political, Left or Right. In fact, in their opposition to the police (and, in one case, to the military -- one of them had a meme celebrating the deaths of National Guardsmen), they're closer to the hard Left. But they're not Leftists either -- they are not political.

They're sort of like the looters and rioters who come out to throw rocks and the police and maybe get a flatscreen TV, who aren't AntiFa or BLM, just lumpen criminals.

I am not interested in your hyper-partisan distortion of American jurisprudence.

I support law enforcement and fair and impartial adjudication.

E.g., Trump has brayed that his being indicted will increase his support. That may well be true, but our judiciary cannot consider that a factor in whether to prosecute.

 

[Delldude]

That is exactly what your type at the capital did , they shit all over the floors and pissed all over the floors , that puts into a capsule exactly who you people are, you guys are a real class act. Scum is the word the patriots of this country use to describe you traitors.

Funny thing, J6 didn't put that in their video narrative?
Shit happens.