How much do extremely wealthy people owe to the society that gave them the chance to prosper so much?

[Toddsterpatriot]

What would make you happy? Hanging them from trees?

I have rich people in my family. I'm not Karl Marx.

Karl Marx was wealthy.
He was trying to figure out how to deal with the fact the industrial revolution was destroying cottage industries, that was then causing massive loss of rights and freedom.
It was causing economic slavery.
We had in the US around the turn of the century, company towns.
But anti trust laws and unions proved to be the solutions.

Karl Marx was wealthy.

Link?

 

[Rigby5]

Utter horseshit. Just ask a few landlords how easy it is to make money from rental property.

Why it's cheaper to buy on a 30-year mortgage or whatever the bank offers than it is to rent. People who are responsible for their own property keep it up and make it last longer.

No, the reason it is cheaper to buy than to rent is that there are tax laws deliberately designed to benefit the wealthy.
When you are landlord, you can write off all repairs, pay yourself, take depreciation, etc.
Renters get ZERO tax breaks at all, and banks won't give poor people a mortgage, even if they can prove they have never defaulted on their rent.
The tax laws and bank practices are incredibly discriminatory, unfair, and fraudulent.

Why shouldn't you be able to write of repairs, your salary and depreciation? The 16th amendment allows the government to tax INCOME, which is defined as revenue minus expenses.

You are incredibly stupid.

"write of"??????????

Write off.

More or less you do, if you take the standard deduction.

No you don't.

The standard deduction is about half of what is realistic, and used to be even worse.

 

[progressive hunter]

They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

As tax shelters.

who cares as long as they are paying it,,

anytime the people get more and the government gets less is a good thing,,

Except that isn't how it works out. There pay less, the government gets less, and the people they don't pay a living wage to get less to make up for it.

as long as the government gets less there is more for the company to pay employees,,

But they don't. The government's job is to protect it's people, even if what they need protected from is greedy corporations and billionaires.

their job is to protect our rights not our jobs or paychecks,,,

youre thinking of fascist or communist countries,,,

Really? Did you forget "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?

that has nothing to do with forcing others to provide for you against their will,,

Nobody is doing that. However they should be made to make up the difference between real wages and what they get away with paying the folks who's backs they ride to wealth.

what are real wages???

I live on less that 5K a yr right now and have no savings or pensions,, and next yrs looks like its gonna be worse,,

So you're homeless and hungry, yet you have internet?

nope,, I have a 12 acre farm and 150K of tools along with 300K in assets,,,

what are real wages??

Ah, so you lied.

I don't know why I expected better of you.

lied about what???

 

[progressive hunter]

Utter horseshit. Just ask a few landlords how easy it is to make money from rental property.

Why it's cheaper to buy on a 30-year mortgage or whatever the bank offers than it is to rent. People who are responsible for their own property keep it up and make it last longer.

No, the reason it is cheaper to buy than to rent is that there are tax laws deliberately designed to benefit the wealthy.
When you are landlord, you can write off all repairs, pay yourself, take depreciation, etc.
Renters get ZERO tax breaks at all, and banks won't give poor people a mortgage, even if they can prove they have never defaulted on their rent.
The tax laws and bank practices are incredibly discriminatory, unfair, and fraudulent.

Why shouldn't you be able to write of repairs, your salary and depreciation? The 16th amendment allows the government to tax INCOME, which is defined as revenue minus expenses.

You are incredibly stupid.

You have my intent backwards.
Nothing wrong with landlords writing off expenses.
What is wrong is renters being unable to write off their actual cost of living, (doing business).
Rent should be a legal tax write off.

then house payments should also be a write off,,,

I like that,, there should be a law for it,,

 

[BS Filter]

You used the same reasoning in your post about how the rich should help the hamburger flipper!

Well then maybe not everything Marx said was wrong or evil.

Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana. Groucho Marx

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When landlords buy rental properties, they are not providing anything, because they are not building the property.

They aren't providing shelter?
Then why do they have tenants?

 

[bripat9643]

Utter horseshit. Just ask a few landlords how easy it is to make money from rental property.

Why it's cheaper to buy on a 30-year mortgage or whatever the bank offers than it is to rent. People who are responsible for their own property keep it up and make it last longer.

No, the reason it is cheaper to buy than to rent is that there are tax laws deliberately designed to benefit the wealthy.
When you are landlord, you can write off all repairs, pay yourself, take depreciation, etc.
Renters get ZERO tax breaks at all, and banks won't give poor people a mortgage, even if they can prove they have never defaulted on their rent.
The tax laws and bank practices are incredibly discriminatory, unfair, and fraudulent.

Why shouldn't you be able to write of repairs, your salary and depreciation? The 16th amendment allows the government to tax INCOME, which is defined as revenue minus expenses.

You are incredibly stupid.

"write of"??????????

Write off.

More or less you do, if you take the standard deduction.

No you don't.

The standard deduction is about half of what is realistic, and used to be even worse.

"Realistic" based on what?

 

[progressive hunter]

They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

As tax shelters.

who cares as long as they are paying it,,

anytime the people get more and the government gets less is a good thing,,

Except that isn't how it works out. There pay less, the government gets less, and the people they don't pay a living wage to get less to make up for it.

as long as the government gets less there is more for the company to pay employees,,

But they don't. The government's job is to protect it's people, even if what they need protected from is greedy corporations and billionaires.

their job is to protect our rights not our jobs or paychecks,,,

youre thinking of fascist or communist countries,,,

Really? Did you forget "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?

that has nothing to do with forcing others to provide for you against their will,,

Nobody is doing that. However they should be made to make up the difference between real wages and what they get away with paying the folks who's backs they ride to wealth.

what are real wages???

I live on less that 5K a yr right now and have no savings or pensions,, and next yrs looks like its gonna be worse,,

So you're homeless and hungry, yet you have internet?

nope,, I have a 12 acre farm and 150K of tools along with 300K in assets,,,

what are real wages??

Ah, so you lied.

I don't know why I expected better of you.

what are real wages??

 

[bripat9643]

Utter horseshit. Just ask a few landlords how easy it is to make money from rental property.

Why it's cheaper to buy on a 30-year mortgage or whatever the bank offers than it is to rent. People who are responsible for their own property keep it up and make it last longer.

No, the reason it is cheaper to buy than to rent is that there are tax laws deliberately designed to benefit the wealthy.
When you are landlord, you can write off all repairs, pay yourself, take depreciation, etc.
Renters get ZERO tax breaks at all, and banks won't give poor people a mortgage, even if they can prove they have never defaulted on their rent.
The tax laws and bank practices are incredibly discriminatory, unfair, and fraudulent.

Why shouldn't you be able to write of repairs, your salary and depreciation? The 16th amendment allows the government to tax INCOME, which is defined as revenue minus expenses.

You are incredibly stupid.

You have my intent backwards.
Nothing wrong with landlords writing off expenses.
What is wrong is renters being unable to write off their actual cost of living, (doing business).
Rent should be a legal tax write off.

then house payments should also be a write off,,,

I like that,, there should be a law for it,,

The entire payment, not just the interest.

 

[Rigby5]

When landlords buy rental properties, they are not providing anything,

They are buying with the good credit they earned and are providing housing for someone else. It is a transaction both parties consent to and benefit from. If it were not something that was wanted by many people they would not waste their time to acquire it.

They are not building the houses, so are not providing anything.
They are competing unfairly for the existing limited housing, so are the cause of housing being twice what they should be, and unaffordable.
It is landlords who cause people to have to rent.
I know because I am a land lord, and I do my own taxes.

 

[Crepitus]

They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

As tax shelters.

who cares as long as they are paying it,,

anytime the people get more and the government gets less is a good thing,,

Except that isn't how it works out. There pay less, the government gets less, and the people they don't pay a living wage to get less to make up for it.

as long as the government gets less there is more for the company to pay employees,,

But they don't. The government's job is to protect it's people, even if what they need protected from is greedy corporations and billionaires.

their job is to protect our rights not our jobs or paychecks,,,

youre thinking of fascist or communist countries,,,

Really? Did you forget "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?

that has nothing to do with forcing others to provide for you against their will,,

Nobody is doing that. However they should be made to make up the difference between real wages and what they get away with paying the folks who's backs they ride to wealth.

what are real wages???

I live on less that 5K a yr right now and have no savings or pensions,, and next yrs looks like its gonna be worse,,

So you're homeless and hungry, yet you have internet?

nope,, I have a 12 acre farm and 150K of tools along with 300K in assets,,,

what are real wages??

Ah, so you lied.

I don't know why I expected better of you.

lied about what???

Not playing your stupid game, little man.

Beat it, I got better things to do than debate liars.

 

[westwall]

Society did not permit the wealthy to become wealthy. Quit playing the finger pointing boo hoo victim Once Again. The wealthy mostly provided the opportunity for others to be employed and for others to benefit from their own labor (and we know libbies don’t like that “their Own Labor” stuff)

We all built this thing and keep it rolling together.

No, "we" didn't. People with money had an idea. They paid people with no ideas, but good strong backs, to do work. Some people with money, most in fact, lost their fortunes because they guessed wrong. They backed the wrong technology, or the wrong country in war, etc.

But merely providing labor doesn't entitle you to the appellation of creator.

 

[progressive hunter]

They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

As tax shelters.

who cares as long as they are paying it,,

anytime the people get more and the government gets less is a good thing,,

Except that isn't how it works out. There pay less, the government gets less, and the people they don't pay a living wage to get less to make up for it.

as long as the government gets less there is more for the company to pay employees,,

But they don't. The government's job is to protect it's people, even if what they need protected from is greedy corporations and billionaires.

their job is to protect our rights not our jobs or paychecks,,,

youre thinking of fascist or communist countries,,,

Really? Did you forget "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?

that has nothing to do with forcing others to provide for you against their will,,

Nobody is doing that. However they should be made to make up the difference between real wages and what they get away with paying the folks who's backs they ride to wealth.

what are real wages???

I live on less that 5K a yr right now and have no savings or pensions,, and next yrs looks like its gonna be worse,,

So you're homeless and hungry, yet you have internet?

nope,, I have a 12 acre farm and 150K of tools along with 300K in assets,,,

what are real wages??

Ah, so you lied.

I don't know why I expected better of you.

lied about what???

Not playing your stupid game, little man.

Beat it, I got better things to do than debate liars.

so youre running away because I proved your narrative wrong,,,

thats OK cause I am used to it,,

 

[WTH_Progs?]

Many wealthy people give millions to charities and hospitals that the population knows nothing about.

True story. I know a guy who's probably provided 500K+ plus good paying jobs. He always did the right things or try. He bought at least one synagogue, and school; gave the land a university sits on, paid for a Hospice, and probably another 10 thousands of things contributed to society. But not everyone does the right things.

 

[Crepitus]

They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

As tax shelters.

who cares as long as they are paying it,,

anytime the people get more and the government gets less is a good thing,,

Except that isn't how it works out. There pay less, the government gets less, and the people they don't pay a living wage to get less to make up for it.

as long as the government gets less there is more for the company to pay employees,,

But they don't. The government's job is to protect it's people, even if what they need protected from is greedy corporations and billionaires.

their job is to protect our rights not our jobs or paychecks,,,

youre thinking of fascist or communist countries,,,

Really? Did you forget "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?

that has nothing to do with forcing others to provide for you against their will,,

Nobody is doing that. However they should be made to make up the difference between real wages and what they get away with paying the folks who's backs they ride to wealth.

what are real wages???

I live on less that 5K a yr right now and have no savings or pensions,, and next yrs looks like its gonna be worse,,

So you're homeless and hungry, yet you have internet?

nope,, I have a 12 acre farm and 150K of tools along with 300K in assets,,,

what are real wages??

Ah, so you lied.

I don't know why I expected better of you.

lied about what???

Not playing your stupid game, little man.

Beat it, I got better things to do than debate liars.

so youre running away because I proved your narrative wrong,,,

thats OK cause I am used to it,,

Nope. I'm ignoring you because you are a liar. As previously noted: beat it, kid. I've got better things to do than debate liars.

 

[progressive hunter]

They also give a lot of money and time, to charity.

As tax shelters.

who cares as long as they are paying it,,

anytime the people get more and the government gets less is a good thing,,

Except that isn't how it works out. There pay less, the government gets less, and the people they don't pay a living wage to get less to make up for it.

as long as the government gets less there is more for the company to pay employees,,

But they don't. The government's job is to protect it's people, even if what they need protected from is greedy corporations and billionaires.

their job is to protect our rights not our jobs or paychecks,,,

youre thinking of fascist or communist countries,,,

Really? Did you forget "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?

that has nothing to do with forcing others to provide for you against their will,,

Nobody is doing that. However they should be made to make up the difference between real wages and what they get away with paying the folks who's backs they ride to wealth.

what are real wages???

I live on less that 5K a yr right now and have no savings or pensions,, and next yrs looks like its gonna be worse,,

So you're homeless and hungry, yet you have internet?

nope,, I have a 12 acre farm and 150K of tools along with 300K in assets,,,

what are real wages??

Ah, so you lied.

I don't know why I expected better of you.

lied about what???

Not playing your stupid game, little man.

Beat it, I got better things to do than debate liars.

so youre running away because I proved your narrative wrong,,,

thats OK cause I am used to it,,

Nope. I'm ignoring you because you are a liar. As previously noted: beat it, kid. I've got better things to do than debate liars.

what did I lie about??

and what is a real wage???

 

[Canon Shooter]

Why won't you answer the question?

I feel that I did answer the question in previous posts.

You feel wrong.

If you and I are given the same opportunity, and you squander yours, why should I have to pay more in taxes than you? Hell, if anything, you should pay a higher percentage just for being lazy.

But even that wouldn't truly be "fair".

Why shouldn't we pay the same percentage in taxes? You said earlier: "We all built this thing and keep it rolling together."

Why should I be forced to work harder to keep it rolling than you?

 

[bripat9643]

When landlords buy rental properties, they are not providing anything,

They are buying with the good credit they earned and are providing housing for someone else. It is a transaction both parties consent to and benefit from. If it were not something that was wanted by many people they would not waste their time to acquire it.

They are not building the houses, so are not providing anything.
They are competing unfairly for the existing limited housing, so are the cause of housing being twice what they should be, and unaffordable.
It is landlords who cause people to have to rent.
I know because I am a land lord, and I do my own taxes.

The idea that some people buying a home causes prices to go up while others buying them doesn't cause a price increase is the ultimate horseshit. You seem to forget that more houses can be built, and the money to build them comes from landlords who buy them. I could spend all day showing how stupid your theories about the real estate market are, but that should be sufficient for people to ignore your idiocy.

 

[Rigby5]

What would make you happy? Hanging them from trees?

I have rich people in my family. I'm not Karl Marx.

Karl Marx was wealthy.
He was trying to figure out how to deal with the fact the industrial revolution was destroying cottage industries, that was then causing massive loss of rights and freedom.
It was causing economic slavery.
We had in the US around the turn of the century, company towns.
But anti trust laws and unions proved to be the solutions.

Karl Marx was wealthy.

Link?

{...
His father, as a child known as Herschel, was the first in the line to receive a secular education. He became a lawyer with a comfortably upper middle class income and the family owned a number of Moselle vineyards, in addition to his income as an attorney. Prior to his son's birth and after the abrogation of Jewish emancipation in the Rhineland,[25] Herschel converted from Judaism to join the state Evangelical Church of Prussia, taking on the German forename Heinrich over the Yiddish Herschel.
Largely non-religious, Heinrich was a man of the Enlightenment, interested in the ideas of the philosophers Immanuel Kant and Voltaire. A classical liberal, he took part in agitation for a constitution and reforms in Prussia, which was then an absolute monarchy.[29] In 1815, Heinrich Marx began working as an attorney and in 1819 moved his family to a ten-room property near the Porta Nigra.[30] His wife, Henriette Pressburg, was a Dutch Jewish woman from a prosperous business family that later founded the company Philips Electronics. Her sister Sophie Pressburg (1797–1854) married Lion Philips (1794–1866) and was the grandmother of both Gerard and Anton Philips and great-grandmother to Frits Philips. Lion Philips was a wealthy Dutch tobacco manufacturer and industrialist, upon whom Karl and Jenny Marx would later often come to rely for loans while they were exiled in London.
...

Marx was privately educated by his father until 1830, when he entered Trier High School (Gymnasium zu Trier [de]), whose headmaster, Hugo Wyttenbach, was a friend of his father. By employing many liberal humanists as teachers, Wyttenbach incurred the anger of the local conservative government. Subsequently, police raided the school in 1832 and discovered that literature espousing political liberalism was being distributed among the students. Considering the distribution of such material a seditious act, the authorities instituted reforms and replaced several staff during Marx's attendance.[35]

In October 1835 at the age of 17, Marx travelled to the University of Bonn wishing to study philosophy and literature, but his father insisted on law as a more practical field.[36] Due to a condition referred to as a "weak chest",[37] Marx was excused from military duty when he turned 18. While at the University at Bonn, Marx joined the Poets' Club, a group containing political radicals that were monitored by the police.[38] Marx also joined the Trier Tavern Club drinking society (German: Landsmannschaft der Treveraner) where many ideas were discussed and at one point he served as the club's co-president.[39][40] Additionally, Marx was involved in certain disputes, some of which became serious: in August 1836 he took part in a duel with a member of the university's Borussian Korps.[41] Although his grades in the first term were good, they soon deteriorated, leading his father to force a transfer to the more serious and academic University of Berlin.
...

Spending summer and autumn 1836 in Trier, Marx became more serious about his studies and his life. He became engaged to Jenny von Westphalen, an educated member of the petty nobility who had known Marx since childhood. As she had broken off her engagement with a young aristocrat to be with Marx, their relationship was socially controversial owing to the differences between their religious and class origins, but Marx befriended her father Ludwig von Westphalen (a liberal aristocrat) and later dedicated his doctoral thesis to him.[43] Seven years after their engagement, on 19 June 1843, they married in a Protestant church in Kreuznach.[44]

In October 1836, Marx arrived in Berlin, matriculating in the university's faculty of law and renting a room in the Mittelstrasse.[45] During the first term, Marx attended lectures of Eduard Gans (who represented the progressive Hegelian standpoint, elaborated on rational development in history by emphasising particularly its libertarian aspects, and the importance of social question) and of Karl von Savigny (who represented the Historical School of Law).[46] Although studying law, he was fascinated by philosophy and looked for a way to combine the two, believing that "without philosophy nothing could be accomplished".[47] Marx became interested in the recently deceased German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, whose ideas were then widely debated among European philosophical circles.[48] During a convalescence in Stralau, he joined the Doctor's Club (Doktorklub), a student group which discussed Hegelian ideas, and through them became involved with a group of radical thinkers known as the Young Hegelians in 1837. They gathered around Ludwig Feuerbach and Bruno Bauer, with Marx developing a particularly close friendship with Adolf Rutenberg. Like Marx, the Young Hegelians were critical of Hegel's metaphysical assumptions, but adopted his dialectical method to criticise established society, politics and religion from a leftist perspective
...
By 1837, Marx was writing both fiction and non-fiction, having completed a short novel, Scorpion and Felix, a drama, Oulanem, as well as a number of love poems dedicated to Jenny von Westphalen, though none of this early work was published during his lifetime.[52] Marx soon abandoned fiction for other pursuits, including the study of both English and Italian, art history and the translation of Latin classics.[53] He began co-operating with Bruno Bauer on editing Hegel's Philosophy of Religion in 1840. Marx was also engaged in writing his doctoral thesis, The Difference Between the Democritean and Epicurean Philosophy of Nature,[54] which he completed in 1841. It was described as "a daring and original piece of work in which Marx set out to show that theology must yield to the superior wisdom of philosophy".[55] The essay was controversial, particularly among the conservative professors at the University of Berlin. Marx decided instead to submit his thesis to the more liberal University of Jena, whose faculty awarded him his PhD in April 1841.[56][2] As Marx and Bauer were both atheists,
...}

Karl Marx - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I would describe that as upper middle class, or lower upper class.
Average people could not afford to get a Phd back then.

 

[Rigby5]

Utter horseshit. Just ask a few landlords how easy it is to make money from rental property.

Why it's cheaper to buy on a 30-year mortgage or whatever the bank offers than it is to rent. People who are responsible for their own property keep it up and make it last longer.

No, the reason it is cheaper to buy than to rent is that there are tax laws deliberately designed to benefit the wealthy.
When you are landlord, you can write off all repairs, pay yourself, take depreciation, etc.
Renters get ZERO tax breaks at all, and banks won't give poor people a mortgage, even if they can prove they have never defaulted on their rent.
The tax laws and bank practices are incredibly discriminatory, unfair, and fraudulent.

Why shouldn't you be able to write of repairs, your salary and depreciation? The 16th amendment allows the government to tax INCOME, which is defined as revenue minus expenses.

You are incredibly stupid.

You have my intent backwards.
Nothing wrong with landlords writing off expenses.
What is wrong is renters being unable to write off their actual cost of living, (doing business).
Rent should be a legal tax write off.

then house payments should also be a write off,,,

I like that,, there should be a law for it,,

The entire payment, not just the interest.

Yes.
Rent or mortgage is the cost of being able to do business, so should all be a write off.
With commercial property, you do, as that is what depreciation covers.