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Losing one's identity is actually an excellent question. If "heaven" is transcending the mortal plane, what is the next step? Just trading in one's mortal life for one with wings (or horns) isn't much of a transition.Great question. First, I want to save people too like my neighbor who killed himself because his Catholic mom told him being gay sends you to hell. I never judged him. As an atheist it's OK to be gay.Agreed. Atheists can be as fanatical as theists.Illogical or irrational or knee jerk conditioned. One or the other. But when it comes to matters of faith and/or those who embrace matters of faith, some who reject that do so with equal fanaticism.
I think in a very real way atheists are MORE fanatical. I mean, theists evangelize because they were told to do so by God, at least in their eyes, and because they want to save other people from miserable lives on Earth and eternal damnation afterward. What the hell is the overriding motivation for atheists to evangelize? But they do it, frequently with more fervor than I've seen from most religious types.
Eternal damnation offends me. That's another reason I mock.
Just what do you think will be eternal damnation? The burning 24/7 forever is an old Roman Catholic belief which is probably overblown. What about losing your identity?
Losing one's identity is actually an excellent question. If "heaven" is transcending the mortal plane, what is the next step? Just trading in one's mortal life for one with wings (or horns) isn't much of a transition.Great question. First, I want to save people too like my neighbor who killed himself because his Catholic mom told him being gay sends you to hell. I never judged him. As an atheist it's OK to be gay.Agreed. Atheists can be as fanatical as theists.Illogical or irrational or knee jerk conditioned. One or the other. But when it comes to matters of faith and/or those who embrace matters of faith, some who reject that do so with equal fanaticism.
I think in a very real way atheists are MORE fanatical. I mean, theists evangelize because they were told to do so by God, at least in their eyes, and because they want to save other people from miserable lives on Earth and eternal damnation afterward. What the hell is the overriding motivation for atheists to evangelize? But they do it, frequently with more fervor than I've seen from most religious types.
Eternal damnation offends me. That's another reason I mock.
Just what do you think will be eternal damnation? The burning 24/7 forever is an old Roman Catholic belief which is probably overblown. What about losing your identity?
IMHO, a true transcendence would be truly "becoming one with God". Ergo, losing one's identity and becoming (rejoining?) God. "Hell", in that case, would be not be "becoming one with God".
The worst anti-smokers are usually former smokers. The most zealous atheists have often been lapsed Catholics or other Christians.Agreed. Atheists can be as fanatical as theists.Illogical or irrational or knee jerk conditioned. One or the other. But when it comes to matters of faith and/or those who embrace matters of faith, some who reject that do so with equal fanaticism.
I think in a very real way atheists are MORE fanatical. I mean, theists evangelize because they were told to do so by God, at least in their eyes, and because they want to save other people from miserable lives on Earth and eternal damnation afterward. What the hell is the overriding motivation for atheists to evangelize? But they do it, frequently with more fervor than I've seen from most religious types.
I think it's a physical thing. We are enclosed inside our own bags of skin and limited by our mortality.Losing one's identity is actually an excellent question. If "heaven" is transcending the mortal plane, what is the next step? Just trading in one's mortal life for one with wings (or horns) isn't much of a transition.Great question. First, I want to save people too like my neighbor who killed himself because his Catholic mom told him being gay sends you to hell. I never judged him. As an atheist it's OK to be gay.Agreed. Atheists can be as fanatical as theists.
I think in a very real way atheists are MORE fanatical. I mean, theists evangelize because they were told to do so by God, at least in their eyes, and because they want to save other people from miserable lives on Earth and eternal damnation afterward. What the hell is the overriding motivation for atheists to evangelize? But they do it, frequently with more fervor than I've seen from most religious types.
Eternal damnation offends me. That's another reason I mock.
Just what do you think will be eternal damnation? The burning 24/7 forever is an old Roman Catholic belief which is probably overblown. What about losing your identity?
IMHO, a true transcendence would be truly "becoming one with God". Ergo, losing one's identity and becoming (rejoining?) God. "Hell", in that case, would be not be "becoming one with God".
Which raises the question of what constitutes "identity" in the first place. Is it a physical thing? Is it information? (thoughts, memories, emotions, ideas?)
Losing one's identity is actually an excellent question. If "heaven" is transcending the mortal plane, what is the next step? Just trading in one's mortal life for one with wings (or horns) isn't much of a transition.Great question. First, I want to save people too like my neighbor who killed himself because his Catholic mom told him being gay sends you to hell. I never judged him. As an atheist it's OK to be gay.Agreed. Atheists can be as fanatical as theists.Illogical or irrational or knee jerk conditioned. One or the other. But when it comes to matters of faith and/or those who embrace matters of faith, some who reject that do so with equal fanaticism.
I think in a very real way atheists are MORE fanatical. I mean, theists evangelize because they were told to do so by God, at least in their eyes, and because they want to save other people from miserable lives on Earth and eternal damnation afterward. What the hell is the overriding motivation for atheists to evangelize? But they do it, frequently with more fervor than I've seen from most religious types.
Eternal damnation offends me. That's another reason I mock.
Just what do you think will be eternal damnation? The burning 24/7 forever is an old Roman Catholic belief which is probably overblown. What about losing your identity?
IMHO, a true transcendence would be truly "becoming one with God". Ergo, losing one's identity and becoming (rejoining?) God. "Hell", in that case, would be not be "becoming one with God".
Nice belief. Now admit it's a belief or prove your statement. Your choice.Losing one's identity is actually an excellent question. If "heaven" is transcending the mortal plane, what is the next step? Just trading in one's mortal life for one with wings (or horns) isn't much of a transition.Great question. First, I want to save people too like my neighbor who killed himself because his Catholic mom told him being gay sends you to hell. I never judged him. As an atheist it's OK to be gay.Agreed. Atheists can be as fanatical as theists.
I think in a very real way atheists are MORE fanatical. I mean, theists evangelize because they were told to do so by God, at least in their eyes, and because they want to save other people from miserable lives on Earth and eternal damnation afterward. What the hell is the overriding motivation for atheists to evangelize? But they do it, frequently with more fervor than I've seen from most religious types.
Eternal damnation offends me. That's another reason I mock.
Just what do you think will be eternal damnation? The burning 24/7 forever is an old Roman Catholic belief which is probably overblown. What about losing your identity?
IMHO, a true transcendence would be truly "becoming one with God". Ergo, losing one's identity and becoming (rejoining?) God. "Hell", in that case, would be not be "becoming one with God".
When Jesus said that the Father and I are one he was not saying that he became God and lost his identity.
Being one with God is just about being of one accord.
A person does not lose their identity when they transcend the mortal plane, they find it.
I think it's a physical thing. We are enclosed inside our own bags of skin and limited by our mortality.Losing one's identity is actually an excellent question. If "heaven" is transcending the mortal plane, what is the next step? Just trading in one's mortal life for one with wings (or horns) isn't much of a transition.Great question. First, I want to save people too like my neighbor who killed himself because his Catholic mom told him being gay sends you to hell. I never judged him. As an atheist it's OK to be gay.I think in a very real way atheists are MORE fanatical. I mean, theists evangelize because they were told to do so by God, at least in their eyes, and because they want to save other people from miserable lives on Earth and eternal damnation afterward. What the hell is the overriding motivation for atheists to evangelize? But they do it, frequently with more fervor than I've seen from most religious types.
Eternal damnation offends me. That's another reason I mock.
Just what do you think will be eternal damnation? The burning 24/7 forever is an old Roman Catholic belief which is probably overblown. What about losing your identity?
IMHO, a true transcendence would be truly "becoming one with God". Ergo, losing one's identity and becoming (rejoining?) God. "Hell", in that case, would be not be "becoming one with God".
Which raises the question of what constitutes "identity" in the first place. Is it a physical thing? Is it information? (thoughts, memories, emotions, ideas?)
If we could truly share each other's thoughts, wouldn't we often be drawn more closer to each other? Most disagreements seem to be a mixture of miscommunications and distrust since none of us can really know what others are thinking.
One analogy for our mortal selves and the great beyond is the cycle of water on Earth. There is the Great Ocean covering the entire planet. Water separates from the Great Ocean by evaporation. Later, it condenses to form clouds then falls as individual raindrops. Some fall back into the ocean. Others fall onto the land forming streams then rivers before finally returning to the Great Ocean. The cycle continues ad infinitum.
LOL. No doubt there'd be an adjustment. Two year olds don't like it when they are told to share. It's a learning process.I think it's a physical thing. We are enclosed inside our own bags of skin and limited by our mortality.
If we could truly share each other's thoughts, wouldn't we often be drawn more closer to each other? Most disagreements seem to be a mixture of miscommunications and distrust since none of us can really know what others are thinking.
One analogy for our mortal selves and the great beyond is the cycle of water on Earth. There is the Great Ocean covering the entire planet. Water separates from the Great Ocean by evaporation. Later, it condenses to form clouds then falls as individual raindrops. Some fall back into the ocean. Others fall onto the land forming streams then rivers before finally returning to the Great Ocean. The cycle continues ad infinitum.
Actually, I'm fairly certain we would like each other less if we were privy to each other's thoughts.
Nice belief. Now admit it's a belief or prove your statement. Your choice.Losing one's identity is actually an excellent question. If "heaven" is transcending the mortal plane, what is the next step? Just trading in one's mortal life for one with wings (or horns) isn't much of a transition.Great question. First, I want to save people too like my neighbor who killed himself because his Catholic mom told him being gay sends you to hell. I never judged him. As an atheist it's OK to be gay.I think in a very real way atheists are MORE fanatical. I mean, theists evangelize because they were told to do so by God, at least in their eyes, and because they want to save other people from miserable lives on Earth and eternal damnation afterward. What the hell is the overriding motivation for atheists to evangelize? But they do it, frequently with more fervor than I've seen from most religious types.
Eternal damnation offends me. That's another reason I mock.
Just what do you think will be eternal damnation? The burning 24/7 forever is an old Roman Catholic belief which is probably overblown. What about losing your identity?
IMHO, a true transcendence would be truly "becoming one with God". Ergo, losing one's identity and becoming (rejoining?) God. "Hell", in that case, would be not be "becoming one with God".
When Jesus said that the Father and I are one he was not saying that he became God and lost his identity.
Being one with God is just about being of one accord.
A person does not lose their identity when they transcend the mortal plane, they find it.
That's not proof. That's a quote from a book assembled by a group of men under the direction of Emperor Constantine in 325AD to push all Christians in one direction and away from other thoughts. The Bible was cherry-picked from hundreds of books, both old and new. All other forms of Christianity were declared heresy and those who refused to follow the directed form of Christianity were banished, excommunicate or executed.Nice belief. Now admit it's a belief or prove your statement. Your choice.
see John 17: 1-26
But it is not for these alone that I pray, but for those also who through their words put their faith in me; may they all be one: as thou, Father, art in me; and I in thee, so also may they be in us, that the world may believe that thou didst send me. The glory which thou has given me, I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one;
I in them and thou in me, may they all be perfectly one.
You don't think that the disciples were assimilated lost their identities and became God do you?
That's not proof. That's a quote from a book assembled by a group of men under the direction of Emperor Constantine in 325AD to push all Christians in one direction and away from other thoughts. The Bible was cherry-picked from hundreds of books, both old and new. All other forms of Christianity were declared heresy and those who refused to follow the directed form of Christianity were banished, excommunicate or executed.Nice belief. Now admit it's a belief or prove your statement. Your choice.
see John 17: 1-26
But it is not for these alone that I pray, but for those also who through their words put their faith in me; may they all be one: as thou, Father, art in me; and I in thee, so also may they be in us, that the world may believe that thou didst send me. The glory which thou has given me, I have given them, that they may be one, as we are one;
I in them and thou in me, may they all be perfectly one.
You don't think that the disciples were assimilated lost their identities and became God do you?
The concept of the "Trinity" didn't happen immediately. It grew as the mandated church evolved.
Trinity - Wikipedia
LOL. No doubt there'd be an adjustment. Two year olds don't like it when they are told to share. It's a learning process.I think it's a physical thing. We are enclosed inside our own bags of skin and limited by our mortality.
If we could truly share each other's thoughts, wouldn't we often be drawn more closer to each other? Most disagreements seem to be a mixture of miscommunications and distrust since none of us can really know what others are thinking.
One analogy for our mortal selves and the great beyond is the cycle of water on Earth. There is the Great Ocean covering the entire planet. Water separates from the Great Ocean by evaporation. Later, it condenses to form clouds then falls as individual raindrops. Some fall back into the ocean. Others fall onto the land forming streams then rivers before finally returning to the Great Ocean. The cycle continues ad infinitum.
Actually, I'm fairly certain we would like each other less if we were privy to each other's thoughts.
Still, if we all grew up knowing exactly what each of our fellow human beings was thinking, don't you think we'd be a lot closer as a species? More sympathetic to each other?
I have none since, unlike you, I readily admit it's a belief. There is no proof either way, which is why these things are a matter of faith....Whats your proof that people lose their identity in the spiritual plane or that being one with God is not simply about being of one accord?
And whats the trinity have to do with anything?
IMHO, that's like a crippled person saying that they are crippled for a reason.LOL. No doubt there'd be an adjustment. Two year olds don't like it when they are told to share. It's a learning process.I think it's a physical thing. We are enclosed inside our own bags of skin and limited by our mortality.
If we could truly share each other's thoughts, wouldn't we often be drawn more closer to each other? Most disagreements seem to be a mixture of miscommunications and distrust since none of us can really know what others are thinking.
One analogy for our mortal selves and the great beyond is the cycle of water on Earth. There is the Great Ocean covering the entire planet. Water separates from the Great Ocean by evaporation. Later, it condenses to form clouds then falls as individual raindrops. Some fall back into the ocean. Others fall onto the land forming streams then rivers before finally returning to the Great Ocean. The cycle continues ad infinitum.
Actually, I'm fairly certain we would like each other less if we were privy to each other's thoughts.
Still, if we all grew up knowing exactly what each of our fellow human beings was thinking, don't you think we'd be a lot closer as a species? More sympathetic to each other?
No, I think we have the ability to hide the less-desirable aspects of ourselves for a very good reason.
I agree with your objections to the trinity.I have none since, unlike you, I readily admit it's a belief. There is no proof either way, which is why these things are a matter of faith....Whats your proof that people lose their identity in the spiritual plane or that being one with God is not simply about being of one accord?
And whats the trinity have to do with anything?
The Trinity is an example of a small group of men dictating to others on what to believe. Religion should be a path to God, not an end to itself. As the wise man said, "There are many paths to the mountaintop".
Thousands of years of teaching? Dude, a circle of men cherry-picked from hundreds of books and laid out the biblical canon in 325AD. It hasn't changed any since then. What has changed is that all other ideas on Jesus have been stomped out as heresy and heretics who didn't bend were executed.I agree with your objections to the trinity.I have none since, unlike you, I readily admit it's a belief. There is no proof either way, which is why these things are a matter of faith....Whats your proof that people lose their identity in the spiritual plane or that being one with God is not simply about being of one accord?
And whats the trinity have to do with anything?
The Trinity is an example of a small group of men dictating to others on what to believe. Religion should be a path to God, not an end to itself. As the wise man said, "There are many paths to the mountaintop".
However I disagree with your assertion that my position about what scripture teaches about the subject of being one with God is a position of faith that cannot be proven by what scripture teaches..
I have shown it to you.
If you want to speculate on the nature of God without the benefit of thousands of years of teaching on the subject, you might as well try surviving without technology.
IMHO, that's like a crippled person saying that they are crippled for a reason.LOL. No doubt there'd be an adjustment. Two year olds don't like it when they are told to share. It's a learning process.I think it's a physical thing. We are enclosed inside our own bags of skin and limited by our mortality.
If we could truly share each other's thoughts, wouldn't we often be drawn more closer to each other? Most disagreements seem to be a mixture of miscommunications and distrust since none of us can really know what others are thinking.
One analogy for our mortal selves and the great beyond is the cycle of water on Earth. There is the Great Ocean covering the entire planet. Water separates from the Great Ocean by evaporation. Later, it condenses to form clouds then falls as individual raindrops. Some fall back into the ocean. Others fall onto the land forming streams then rivers before finally returning to the Great Ocean. The cycle continues ad infinitum.
Actually, I'm fairly certain we would like each other less if we were privy to each other's thoughts.
Still, if we all grew up knowing exactly what each of our fellow human beings was thinking, don't you think we'd be a lot closer as a species? More sympathetic to each other?
No, I think we have the ability to hide the less-desirable aspects of ourselves for a very good reason.
OTOH, there is the question of "why are we here?" Human limitations may be part of the mystery. I don't know, but it's something to think about.
The only reason to have privacy in such a case is to preserve one's identity; a selfish desire to remain apart and not become one with God.IMHO, that's like a crippled person saying that they are crippled for a reason.LOL. No doubt there'd be an adjustment. Two year olds don't like it when they are told to share. It's a learning process.I think it's a physical thing. We are enclosed inside our own bags of skin and limited by our mortality.
If we could truly share each other's thoughts, wouldn't we often be drawn more closer to each other? Most disagreements seem to be a mixture of miscommunications and distrust since none of us can really know what others are thinking.
One analogy for our mortal selves and the great beyond is the cycle of water on Earth. There is the Great Ocean covering the entire planet. Water separates from the Great Ocean by evaporation. Later, it condenses to form clouds then falls as individual raindrops. Some fall back into the ocean. Others fall onto the land forming streams then rivers before finally returning to the Great Ocean. The cycle continues ad infinitum.
Actually, I'm fairly certain we would like each other less if we were privy to each other's thoughts.
Still, if we all grew up knowing exactly what each of our fellow human beings was thinking, don't you think we'd be a lot closer as a species? More sympathetic to each other?
No, I think we have the ability to hide the less-desirable aspects of ourselves for a very good reason.
OTOH, there is the question of "why are we here?" Human limitations may be part of the mystery. I don't know, but it's something to think about.
Can't imagine why you would consider having privacy inside your own head to be "crippled".
The only reason to have privacy in such a case is to preserve one's identity; a selfish desire to remain apart and not become one with God.IMHO, that's like a crippled person saying that they are crippled for a reason.LOL. No doubt there'd be an adjustment. Two year olds don't like it when they are told to share. It's a learning process.Actually, I'm fairly certain we would like each other less if we were privy to each other's thoughts.
Still, if we all grew up knowing exactly what each of our fellow human beings was thinking, don't you think we'd be a lot closer as a species? More sympathetic to each other?
No, I think we have the ability to hide the less-desirable aspects of ourselves for a very good reason.
OTOH, there is the question of "why are we here?" Human limitations may be part of the mystery. I don't know, but it's something to think about.
Can't imagine why you would consider having privacy inside your own head to be "crippled".
Identity is an illusion; a human limitation. When we die, transcending our human limitations would be nice, eh?
And, like I already said, since we'd grow up with it, like a two year old learning to share, we'd get used to it.The only reason to have privacy in such a case is to preserve one's identity; a selfish desire to remain apart and not become one with God.IMHO, that's like a crippled person saying that they are crippled for a reason.LOL. No doubt there'd be an adjustment. Two year olds don't like it when they are told to share. It's a learning process.
Still, if we all grew up knowing exactly what each of our fellow human beings was thinking, don't you think we'd be a lot closer as a species? More sympathetic to each other?
No, I think we have the ability to hide the less-desirable aspects of ourselves for a very good reason.
OTOH, there is the question of "why are we here?" Human limitations may be part of the mystery. I don't know, but it's something to think about.
Can't imagine why you would consider having privacy inside your own head to be "crippled".
Identity is an illusion; a human limitation. When we die, transcending our human limitations would be nice, eh?
No, actually, a very good reason to have such privacy from other humans is because we would be a lot less likable if they knew everything that goes on in our heads . . . which I'm pretty sure I already said.
Please don't start conflating our previous conversation, which has been exclusively about human interaction with "You want to be separate from God". I haven't said a single thing about God yet on this topic.
