how much warming from adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere is what we

[westwall]

If you really want to know the answer to that question you're in the wrong place.

That's certainly the truth when idiots like you post pictures of the coast of India claiming it to be the great Pacific Gyre. What a complete asshat.

I made no such claim.

You posted the picture dummy. That means that YES YOU DID MAKE THE CLAIM.

So are you stoned, or just a simpleton?

 

[westwall]

They claim that the "average" pH is 8.14 = 7.2 x 10 ^(-9) [grams H+ per liter]...

Well, given that there are these things called pH meters that measure pH quite accurately, it's kind of silly to call it a "claim". Only a conspiracy theorist would put "claim" in quotes and thus imply that they were lying about it.

Anyways, it seems PolarBear's knowledge of water chemistry sucks just as badly as the rest of his "science". He doesn't understand how weak acids and bases work, as his crack about hydrothermal vents shows. I'll give you a hint. A weak base like baking soda will neutralize acid just as well as a strong base like lye. The amount of acid coming out of those vents is completely insignificant compared to the dissolved CO2.

No, admiral, once again he slaughtered you with some very basic science. Science that you would know had you taken a good chem class in high school.

 

[gslack]

Gotta give you credit for patience west. I don't bother dealing with oompah-loompah Ian sock.Just one too many obvious alter-egos for me.

 

[mamooth]

No, admiral, once again he slaughtered you with some very basic science.

Then I'm sure you'll be able to explain what polarbear's point was, and how he "slaughtered" me. Using your own words, of course, and providing the mathematics and data to back up your claims. Please do so now.

Anyways, I'm sure we'll all soon learn that in addition to the physics of the past century all being wrong, the chemistry is all wrong as well, and only our handful of political cultists here understand the real truth. We should all be appreciative of having such a group of Einsteins in our midst. One only wonders why the world fails to appreciate their genius.

 

[polarbear]

They claim that the "average" pH is 8.14 = 7.2 x 10 ^(-9) [grams H+ per liter]...

Well, given that there are these things called pH meters that measure pH quite accurately, it's kind of silly to call it a "claim". Only a conspiracy theorist would put "claim" in quotes and thus imply that they were lying about it.

Anyways, it seems PolarBear's knowledge of water chemistry sucks just as badly as the rest of his "science". He doesn't understand how weak acids and bases work, as his crack about hydrothermal vents shows. I'll give you a hint. A weak base like baking soda will neutralize acid just as well as a strong base like lye. The amount of acid coming out of those vents is completely insignificant compared to the dissolved CO2.

Dipshit, you haven`t got the vaguest idea how to measure a pH accurately even if I`ld let you have a pH meter.
Suppose I gave you this one and you had to measure the pH of a sample what`s the first thing you would have to do?

Step 1?
Step 2?
Step 3?
Step 4?
Which of the 2 probes you see is the pH probe and which one is the reference probe?
What is in those 2 beakers?
The yellow one is pH what ?
The red one is pH what?
And what color code is used for the pH 7 calibration buffer ?
Happy Googling !...it`ll keep you busy for a while

 

[polarbear]

When a few fish shit near a coral reef it will have as much pH impact...
And so do all these fissures that produce Sulfuric acid round the clock:

Talking about CO2 in water is as much as an oxymoron as talking about CO2 in air with water vapor.

So you're saying the cause of the rising ocean pH isn't the Co2, even as the Co2 content of ocean water increases?

First of all I was talking about CO2 not diatomic Cobalt (Co)...You claim to be a physicist but don`t know the difference ?
Secondly I said that there is no such thing as a measured average ocean pH...what it was, as opposed to what it is now, both are ESTIMATES.
Ocean pH has not even been mapped yet because these projects are still looking for funding to establish a wide spread sampling network....
But according to dipshit all you need is only one accurate pH meter to get the pH of all our oceans:

Well, given that there are these things called pH meters that measure pH quite accurately,

To sort out these huge variations:

Seawater pH statistics for pH zones associated with CO2 vents at Ischia, Italy, calculated from hourly measurements taken by in situ pH sensors for separate deployments of the sensors
pH Zone
Season/site Ambient Low Extreme low
Winter/south
 Mean — 7.71 ± 0.39 6.56 ± 0.49
 CV — 0.05 0.08
 N — 646 646
Spring/south
 Mean 8.07 ± 0.09 7.75 ± 0.31 6.51 ± 0.42
 CV 0.01 0.04 0.06
 N 792 1,801 1,801
Fall/north
 Mean 7.96 ± 0.06 7.47 ± 0.19 7.21 ± 0.34
 CV 0.01 0.03 0.05
 N 602 602 602
Fall/south
 Mean 8.04 ± 0.09 7.84 ± 0.24 6.78 ± 0.67
 

Table 2. Measured and estimated environmental and geochemical variables for pH zones
Parameter Ambient Low Extreme low N
North
 Salinity(&#8240 37.9± 0.3 37.8±0.4 37.9± 0.4 3
 
 
 Temperature (°C) 19.6± 1.5 17.5± 2.8 17.5± 2.8 1,503–3,162
 pH (total) 8.1± 0.1 7.8± 0.3 6.6± 0.5 1,503–3,162
 pCO2 (μatm) 440 ± 192 1,581 ± 2,711 23,989 ± 16,638 1,503–3,162

A) northern and (B) southern sites at Castello Aragonese d’Ischia in the ambient (blue), low (yellow), and extreme low (red) pH zones. Time series for (A) the northern site is from September 13 to October 8, 2010, and time series for (B) the southern site is

observations of pH collected during spring of 2010 using SeaFET pH sensors at three locations under fast sea ice in the southern Ross Sea. During these deployments in McMurdo Sound, baseline pH ranged between 8.019–8.045, with low to moderate overall variation

Variation in ocean pH is a dynamic process occurring naturally in the upwelling zone of the California Current Large Marine Ecosystem.
Large fluctuations in pH of up to 0.67 pH units were observed over short time scales of several days. Daily pH fluctuations on a tidal pattern followed temperature fluctuations over short time scales,

As if you could get an average pacific ocean pH with a mere 13 pH probes:

While you got "Large fluctuations in pH of up to 0.67 pH".

So you're saying the cause of the rising ocean pH isn't the Co2, even as the Co2 content of ocean water increases?

No, ...that`s not what I was saying..I`m saying that it is ridiculous to "estimate" that the "ocean pH" was 8.24 and that we changed it by 0.1 pH units to 8.14

Do you get it ?
No ?
Maybe you should stick with making pop-frogs in your microwave and watch TV

 

[mamooth]

Dipshit, you haven`t got the vaguest idea how to measure a pH accurately even if I`ld let you have a pH meter.

That's why I'd read the instructions for the particular model.

So, we see one of your usual sad attempts at a deflection, but it won't work. You _still_ fail at water chemistry.

Tell us, how much sulfuric acid is emitted by those black smokers? How does that compare to how much additional CO2 dissolves each year? I mean, if I were going to make such a groundbreaking claim, I'd certainly run the numbers first, and not expect people to just accept my handwaving.

If hydrothermal vents are driving ocean pH, shouldn't the oceans be more acidic around the spreading mid-ocean ridges where such vents are found? They're not, you know. For example, the mid-atlantic area is a little more alkaline than the average for seawater. That seems to contradict your theory.

 

[polarbear]

Dipshit, you haven`t got the vaguest idea how to measure a pH accurately even if I`ld let you have a pH meter.

That's why I'd read the instructions for the particular model.

So, we see one of your usual sad attempts at a deflection, but it won't work. You _still_ fail at water chemistry.

You found nothing with Google.
That`s a run of the mill pH meter with a pH and a KCl reference probe.
They all work the same.
The calibration buffers use also all the same color coding WORLD WIDE...
You had no idea which one in that picture was the pH 4 and which one was the pH 10 calibration buffer and meowed:

That's why I'd read the instructions for the particular model.

So, we see one of your usual sad attempts at a deflection

So who is deflecting?
And you are trying to give me an exam in "water chemistry"...?
What the fuck is that ?
I took Phys Chem, Organic Chem, Inorganic Chem, Organic synthesis Chem,
Radio Chemistry, Trace Analysis,...such as Atomic Absorption Spectroscopy, Infrared and UV spectroscopy, HPLC, GLC etc etc..but I never heard of "water chemistry"...then again I did not study at "skeptical science.org" like you do

 

[mamooth]

But according to dipshit all you need is only one accurate pH meter to get the pH of all our oceans:

The only dipshit saying such a dumb thing is polarbear. I often wonder how he comes up with such stupid ideas. He appears to work very hard at it.

No, ...that`s not what I was saying..I`m saying that it is ridiculous to "estimate" that the "ocean pH" was 8.24 and that we changed it by 0.1 pH units to 8.14

Which is as dumb as saying "It's ridiculous to estimate global temperature has risen! You only have a finite number of measurements!".

We have direct measurements. And we have historical proxies, the boron isotope ratios. You can quibble about how the pH average is calculated, but it's just delusional to claim the pH hasn't changed.

 

[mamooth]

You found nothing with Google.

True, because I didn't look, because I don't give a shit. The mechanics of a specific pH meter aren't relevant to anything. You only want to bring them up as one of your patented cowardly evasions.

I took Phys Chem, Organic Chem, Inorganic Chem, Organic synthesis Chem,
Radio Chemistry, Trace Analysis,...such as Atomic Absorption Spectroscopy, Infrared and UV spectroscopy, HPLC, GLC etc etc.

Then why do you suck so badly at water chemistry? A topic, by the way, which the ACA seems to think exists. Odd you never heard of something that mainstream. You know, the chemistry of dissolving stuff in water.

Water Chemistry

Are you fabricating all your credentials? I mean, what else would explain why you get everything so wrong?

 

[SSDD]

Then why do you suck so badly at water chemistry? A topic, by the way, which the ACA seems to think exists. Odd you never heard of something that mainstream. You know, the chemistry of dissolving stuff in water.

Guess you didn't read the course desccription. It isn't a hard science course...it isn't even a soft science course. It is the sort of thing one might take in pursuit of a degree in political science or public management. From the syllabus:

Water chemists study the impact of water on other elements in the systems and how other elements in these systems affect the quality of water. Water chemists also contribute to the design and implementation of processes and policies to manage these effects.

The tell is at the bottom of the page:

What You Can Do Now

Water chemists say the best preparation for this field is to build a broad base of knowledge that includes a solid foundation in one of the chemical disciplines. Lab courses are equally important because actual hands-on chemistry is one of the best ways to prepare for work in this field. Environmental science courses that build an understanding of government policy issues are the key to success when combined with technical expertise.

In case you don't understand what that means...it is saying that water chemistry is not a science course and if you want to do anything in this field, you will have to take some actual science.

Why don't you just stop talking. Every time you open your mouth you either stick your foot in it or demonstrate that you don't know much of anything about anything.

 

[gslack]

Then why do you suck so badly at water chemistry? A topic, by the way, which the ACA seems to think exists. Odd you never heard of something that mainstream. You know, the chemistry of dissolving stuff in water.

Guess you didn't read the course desccription. It isn't a hard science course...it isn't even a soft science course. It is the sort of thing one might take in pursuit of a degree in political science or public management. From the syllabus:

Water chemists study the impact of water on other elements in the systems and how other elements in these systems affect the quality of water. Water chemists also contribute to the design and implementation of processes and policies to manage these effects.

The tell is at the bottom of the page:

What You Can Do Now

Water chemists say the best preparation for this field is to build a broad base of knowledge that includes a solid foundation in one of the chemical disciplines. Lab courses are equally important because actual hands-on chemistry is one of the best ways to prepare for work in this field. Environmental science courses that build an understanding of government policy issues are the key to success when combined with technical expertise.

In case you don't understand what that means...it is saying that water chemistry is not a science course and if you want to do anything in this field, you will have to take some actual science.

Why don't you just stop talking. Every time you open your mouth you either stick your foot in it or demonstrate that you don't know much of anything about anything.

I figure Chemistry should cover PH balance. Any moderate to advanced level chemistry course will give you a solid knowledge of PH in anything, after all it's one of the fundamentals in chemistry. Mixing chemicals with a PH level that is not within the parameters of the experiment can be bad in many ways.

But mamooth knows all just ask him he will tell you something he snatched off the net..

 

[mamooth]

Gslack, tell us why both disodium phosphate and trisodium phosphate are used in the boiler/Steam generator water.

Tell us why ammonia is used for the primary loop.

Tell us why ammonia isn't used for the secondary loop.

Tell us why phosphates aren't used for the primary loop.

Tell us how many moles of sulfuric acid that a mole of a bicarbonate (a weak base) can neutralize.

Tell us why adding CO2 to seawater affects the pH, but not the alkalinity.

None of you kooks will be able to answer those, of course. The answers won't be on google, and you're all completely helpless if you can't google something.

 

[Foxfyre]

Geez, you're talking highschool chemistry stuff here Mamooth. One of the first concepts we learned is that adding CO2 to a solution does not change the alkalinity because the reaction includes an equal amount of positive vs negative species. I'm pretty sure that information is probably available on the internet somewhere though because it is such basic stuff.

As for CO2 changing the Ph, that also is pretty basic stuff. Dissolved CO2 creates carbonic acid that does lower the Ph--and we all breath out carbonic acid along with CO2. However, volcanoes and other natural phenomenon produce far more carbonic acid than anything humans can do, and the increase of our factories and home furnaces belching tons of it into the atmosphere have not increased the amount of natural carbonic acid to any significantly measurable degree. The plants on earth absorb that along with CO2 and maintain a reasonable balance.

This is also first year chemistry stuff you know. And I'm pretty sure it is available somewhere on the internet too.

 

[gslack]

Gslack, tell us why both disodium phosphate and trisodium phosphate are used in the boiler/Steam generator water.

Tell us why ammonia is used for the primary loop.

Tell us why ammonia isn't used for the secondary loop.

Tell us why phosphates aren't used for the primary loop.

Tell us how many moles of sulfuric acid that a mole of a bicarbonate (a weak base) can neutralize.

Tell us why adding CO2 to seawater affects the pH, but not the alkalinity.

None of you kooks will be able to answer those, of course. The answers won't be on google, and you're all completely helpless if you can't google something.

LOL,call it a hunch but I'm pretty sure you googled the entire list...

Your need to stalk me is touching admiral but I'm really not interested. You're too needy, too clingy, and frankly you're an internet fake and phony. As well as a liar and weasel..So sorry, but it's still a no..

Not gonna bother with it.. LOL, All I'm gonna tell you is you need to get a life, and that you're again mixing terms out of context...I'm no boiler tech, and neither are you.

I'm not going to get into a "who can google the most obscure tech data" contest with you troll. You want answers to your questions? Fine..

1. Cleaning?

2. Because that's what you found in your google docs jaunt?

3. see number 2.

4. see number 2.

5. LOL, you just rambled junior.. Why not ask "how many moles of sulfuric acid can a single mole of bicarbonate (weak base) neutralize?" It makes sense that way, your question was garbled but I get what you wanted to know.. and the answer is. You should set traps if you have mole problems. Don't use poisons because they may harm other critters..LOL

6. LOL, because it forms an acid numbnuts. And look I can google too.."This is because the net reaction produces the same number of equivalents of positively contributing species (H+) as negative contributing species (HCO3- and/or CO32-)."

LOL, too funny admiral..

7. The last bit was you trying to grandstand and act all big for the adults...LOL

Admiral you do realize you keep telling on yourself with your immature bold claims and statements?

Here's the thing.. You google up all kinds of obscure tech jabber to back up some bold absolute claim you made. And when you do you leave out context and improperly use terminology, showing that you haven't a clue of how it works or what actually goes on. All you did was google up some techno-jargon and paste it up there, and then call yourself a genius..

Only a kid does that, and only a kid is so desperate to impress. You're like a teenager trying to get the attention of the hot girl in school. You ramble and fudge it up, but you think you're doing well.. Damn man, even the most socially inept adult doesn't try this hard to impress people they don't know.

Who you trying to impress now junior? Me? Well start with honesty first and work your way up. I think you are desperate to be seen as somebody important or smart, or whatever by anybody even if they are just online people.. Grow up junior, your desperation reeks.

 

[mamooth]

Foxfyre gives a decent answer for #6. Score that one correct. Alkalinity and pH are not the same thing, and one can lower pH without changing alkalinity. Most people don't understand that, but you have to understand it for seawater chemistry. It's also a reason why "acidification" is the scientifically correct term to use now.

As expected, a perfect zero score from gslack. He couldn't google any of it, thus he was completely helpless.

I'll give polarbear a 50%, from his rambling post on the other thread. He has some familiarity with boilers, so he managed a halfass job.

 

[gslack]

Foxfyre gives a decent answer for #6. Score that one correct. Alkalinity and pH are not the same thing, and one can lower pH without changing alkalinity. Most people don't understand that, but you have to understand it for seawater chemistry. It's also a reason why "acidification" is the scientifically correct term to use now.

As expected, a perfect zero score from gslack. He couldn't google any of it, thus he was completely helpless.

I'll give polarbear a 50%, from his rambling post on the other thread. He has some familiarity with boilers, so he managed a halfass job.

Uh-huh, I didn't play your game so you're gonna take your ball and go home now right.. ROFL, you're a peacock.. A preening, posturing, fowl with delusions of brilliance..

Do you really think people are going to believe you after all you have done here till now? You were busted being a fraud more times than I can count, and you claim to understand so much about reactors, and now boilers and chemistry, yet you couldn't spot the obvious in the simple heat lamp thought experiment.. ROFL, it's okay little fella, no one noticed how you can't understand the simplest of things but seem to have a wealth of techno-babble you use inaccurately all the time.. Yep, to them you're a genius...

And pay no attention to the nay-sayers who doubt your brilliance admiral...

You're too silly for words

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

First of all I was talking about CO2 not diatomic Cobalt (Co)...

I wasn't talking about Cobalt.

Variation in ocean pH is a dynamic process occurring naturally in the upwelling zone of the California Current Large Marine Ecosystem.
Large fluctuations in pH of up to 0.67 pH units were observed over short time scales of several days. Daily pH fluctuations on a tidal pattern followed temperature fluctuations over short time scales,

No, ...that`s not what I was saying..I`m saying that it is ridiculous to "estimate" that the "ocean pH" was 8.24 and that we changed it by 0.1 pH units to 8.14

The pH of the ocean at Mauna Loa in the graph isn't an "estimate" - its a measurement with a pH meter.

 

[SSDD]

[

The pH of the ocean at Mauna Loa in the graph isn't an "estimate" - its a measurement with a pH meter.

How much CO2 do you think the volcano puts in to the water there via underwater vents?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

[

The pH of the ocean at Mauna Loa in the graph isn't an "estimate" - its a measurement with a pH meter.

How much CO2 do you think the volcano puts in to the water there via underwater vents?

Not enough to alter the near exact correlation between atmospheric Co2 and ocean Co2 at Mauna Loa.