How racist is America compared to other countries?

[Darkwind]

There is a strong undercurrent of sullen resentment here among older Americans at how diverse our country is becoming, good thing they will be dead of old age soon.

There is no such thing.

 

[Kondor3]

...You seem to be going out of your way to bring in Arabs as well as to shift the focus from the European transporters to Africans...

Just helping to spread the good cheer... spreading the blame to the historically accurate multiple parties who share substantial guilt in the matter.

The bizarre fact is, slavery has appeared on every continent and within every race; Europeans enslaving Europeans, Africans enslaving Africans, Asians, Native Americans etc, so its presence in Africa was the norm in the world -- not the exception...

It's also largely a matter of when slavery was ended as a practice, in Region A or B, and, in connection with One's Own, rather than The Other Guy.

...What was new about the transatlantic commerce was the concept of shipping said slaves to an entirely different part of the world on a journey that to its human cargo must have seemed effectively like one of us being abducted by aliens and sent to a distant planet. It was a whole new level of meaning to the already-iffy concept of slavery and begat the invention of the instrument used to justify such a new paradigm: racism...

Yep.

...Africans did not invent that. Nor did Arabs.

Hmmmmm...

You seem in rather insistent upon defending Africans and Arabs in this matter.

Perhaps I should not have chimed-in with an accurate sharing of the blame amongst parties... it detracts from the Bash Whitey Festival.

Meanwhile...

I don't know enough about African slavery across the continent to say whether they invented anything analogous in their own travels, although, my Spidey-Sense tells me that they were sufficiently 'local' or 'regional' so that there was very little cross-over between regions within the African continent, for slavery that they practiced in the inner regions.

I DO know that the Muslim-Arab slavers of the Barbary Coast and beyond (east and west along the shores of the Med) engaged in the bulk transport of their slaves throughout much of the then-known world, to include all of North Africa, the Middle East, Turkey, Persia and beyond, so, I'm not so sure the Arabs deserve to be let off the hook as lacking something analogous in their own right.

The Muslim-Arab slave-trade was far too profitable not to have invented such analogies over the many and long centuries that they were the world's Premiere Slave Traders.

 

[Pogo]

...You seem to be going out of your way to bring in Arabs as well as to shift the focus from the European transporters to Africans...

Just helping to spread the good cheer... spreading the blame to the historically accurate multiple parties who share substantial guilt in the matter.

The bizarre fact is, slavery has appeared on every continent and within every race; Europeans enslaving Europeans, Africans enslaving Africans, Asians, Native Americans etc, so its presence in Africa was the norm in the world -- not the exception...

It's also largely a matter of when slavery was ended as a practice, in Region A or B, and, in connection with One's Own, rather than The Other Guy.

...What was new about the transatlantic commerce was the concept of shipping said slaves to an entirely different part of the world on a journey that to its human cargo must have seemed effectively like one of us being abducted by aliens and sent to a distant planet. It was a whole new level of meaning to the already-iffy concept of slavery and begat the invention of the instrument used to justify such a new paradigm: racism...

Yep.

...Africans did not invent that. Nor did Arabs.

Hmmmmm...

You seem in rather insistent upon defending Africans and Arabs in this matter.

Perhaps I should not have chimed-in with an accurate sharing of the blame amongst parties... it detracts from the Bash Whitey Festival.

Meanwhile...

I don't know enough about African slavery across the continent to say whether they invented anything analogous in their own travels, although, my Spidey-Sense tells me that they were sufficiently 'local' or 'regional' so that there was very little cross-over between regions within the African continent, for slavery that they practiced in the inner regions.

I DO know that the Muslim-Arab slavers of the Barbary Coast and beyond (east and west along the shores of the Med) engaged in the bulk transport of their slaves throughout much of the then-known world, to include all of North Africa, the Middle East, Turkey, Persia and beyond, so, I'm not so sure the Arabs deserve to be let off the hook as lacking something analogous in their own right.

The Muslim-Arab slave-trade was far too profitable not to have invented such analogies over the many and long centuries that they were the world's Premiere Slave Traders.

I'm pointing out that you seem desperate to hang a combination Arab/African coat of paint on what was in fact a European practice. The fact is, as you just agreed above, racism was invented (by Europeans) to rationalize their treatment of human cargo as business capital, and the fact is Africans and Arabs did not. Ergo there is nothing to "defend" involving either group for a simple nonexistence of the practice.

Now when some revisionista attempts to distort history to bizarre misshapen forms, I'll be there to push it back into the shape in which it belongs. If that's an issue, then... don't distort the history in the first place.

 

[Kondor3]

[ ...I'm pointing out that you seem desperate to hang a combination Arab/African coat of paint on what was in fact a European practice...

Desperate? Hardly. Given that none of my ancestors participated. Just ensuring that every major faction involved gets its fair share of credit (shame).

... The fact is, as you just agreed above, racism was invented (by Europeans) to rationalize their treatment of human cargo as business capital, and the fact is Africans and Arabs did not...

Oh, really?

Then DO explain the Caste System of India to us, will you?

Just for warm-ups.

...Ergo there is nothing to "defend" involving either group for a simple nonexistence of the practice...

Are you really going to sit here and try to pretend that the Arabs don't practice their own brand of racism, and that they always have?

Good luck with that.

...Now when some revisionista attempts to distort history to bizarre misshapen forms, I'll be there to push it back into the shape in which it belongs. If that's an issue, then... don't distort the history in the first place.

I have not distorted history in our exchange, have I?

Have I once in this sequence said something that wasn't true?

Good luck with that, too.

The real problem here is that you don't like folks reminding the audience that American Slavery had strong and vigorous roots in the Native Slavery practices of the tribes of Western and Central Africa and that American Slavery also owes a vast share of credit to the centuries-old Arab Slave Trade that has plaugued Mother Africa for the past 1300+ years.

Finally, there's no escaping the idea that American Racism is rather unique, but it's not alone, nor even particularly new or inventive, beyond the more superficial attributes.

If you don't like folks broadening the dialogue to encompass the entire Slave System from point-of-origin to final destination, then, perhaps you shouldn't be belaboring the point in the first place.

 

[blackhawk]

This all depends on what you consider racist some don't see racism even when if couldn't be more obvious and there are others who see racism in everything.

 

[Unkotare]

. I also learned that in their eyes there are only Japanese and sub humans.....

That's just stupid. You claim to have "traveled the world," but you learned exactly nothing? Suspicious.

 

[williepete]

That's just stupid. You claim to have "traveled the world," but you learned exactly nothing? Suspicious.

Very impolite. I take it you are not Japanese or perhaps you dishonor your Japanese heritage by being so rude.

Yes, I flew around the world for 30 years, lived outside of the U.S.A. several times and learned quite a bit about other cultures. But most of all, my travels and experiences in other countries made me appreciate the U.S.A.

I lived in Japan for two years. I admire the Japanese. They were gracious hosts, neighbors and friends but they also taught me that to them, everyone who is not Japanese is inferior.

Because what I learned from living in Japan doesn't meet your approval doesn't make me stupid. I lived there. I learned how they think. I learned what their culture taught them. I also lived in Korea twice. If you want to learn about Japanese racism, talk to the Koreans or Chinese or Thai or Vietnamese or Cambodian or Indonesian for that matter. Anyone in Asia will do and you know it. The Japanese haven't been the best of neighbors as history will teach you (HISTORY TAUGHT OUTSIDE OF JAPAN).

When it comes to racism, the U.S.A. is the most tolerant country I've ever visited or lived in. I've only been to about 50 countries but that's taught me a bit.

That being said, I miss the Hell out of Gyūdon and real soba noodles. You'd think a country that can put a man on the moon could duplicate such simple tasty dishes.

 

[Kosh]

Two different studies here. One involved a study of people who googled the 'n' word. Another looked at twitter comments using the 'n' word in negative ways. I would take it that blacks calling each other that wouldn't count.

Also, there are numbers regarding polls about whether people would be okay living next to other races.

It's a little surprising that it's not the rampant problem the media and race baiters would suggest. It exists and we all know it, but I suspect that people have been trained to see it when it is not present.

More white suspects are shot by cops than black suspects, but that isn't how the media portrays cops. You'd think white suspects are let off the hook, or not stopped at all by cops, while cops go out looking for blacks just so they can make up a reason to harass them.

University of Maryland studied Google searches for "n" word and made this map.

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/308406-often-people-area-google-controversial-term/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=organic&utm_content=conservativedaily&utm_campaign=Culture



"The map looks strikingly similar to a recent a map of racist Tweets made by researchers at Humboldt State University.

While racism may appear rife in the US, a separate study found that overall, Western countries are the most accepting of other cultures with Britain, the U.S.and Australia more tolerant than anywhere else.

The data came from the World Value Survey, which measured the social attitudes of people in different countries.

The country with the highest proportion of 'intolerant' people who wanted neighbours similar to them was Jordan, where 51.4 per cent of the population would refuse to live next to someone of a different race.

Next was India with 43.5 per cent.

Racist views are strikingly rare in the U.S., according to the survey, which claims that only 3.8 per cent of residents are reluctant to have a neighbour of another race."



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3061567/Is-region-racist-Hate-map-reveals-dramatic-divide-eastern-western-states.html

Lots of Appalachia is RED.

Yes it is in the far left blue northern areas, go figure that you would point that thinking the opposite..

 

[Kosh]

It's ironic that the country formerly known as England was the primary source of slaves to the New World when it was profitable to the crazy Monarchs who executed the Irish rabble for minor violations. Now the idiot mostly left wing excuse for the U.K. press dares to judge parameters of alleged worldwide racism based on the use of the "N" word? ? Give me a break. It's all bull shit.

Trust me, Ireland was never the "primary source of slaves". Inflate much?

Yep all those "slaves" just got on a boat all by themselves and want to go to other places.

 

[AntiParty]

Two different studies here. One involved a study of people who googled the 'n' word. Another looked at twitter comments using the 'n' word in negative ways. I would take it that blacks calling each other that wouldn't count.

Also, there are numbers regarding polls about whether people would be okay living next to other races.

It's a little surprising that it's not the rampant problem the media and race baiters would suggest. It exists and we all know it, but I suspect that people have been trained to see it when it is not present.

More white suspects are shot by cops than black suspects, but that isn't how the media portrays cops. You'd think white suspects are let off the hook, or not stopped at all by cops, while cops go out looking for blacks just so they can make up a reason to harass them.

University of Maryland studied Google searches for "n" word and made this map.

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/308406-often-people-area-google-controversial-term/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=organic&utm_content=conservativedaily&utm_campaign=Culture



"The map looks strikingly similar to a recent a map of racist Tweets made by researchers at Humboldt State University.

While racism may appear rife in the US, a separate study found that overall, Western countries are the most accepting of other cultures with Britain, the U.S.and Australia more tolerant than anywhere else.

The data came from the World Value Survey, which measured the social attitudes of people in different countries.

The country with the highest proportion of 'intolerant' people who wanted neighbours similar to them was Jordan, where 51.4 per cent of the population would refuse to live next to someone of a different race.

Next was India with 43.5 per cent.

Racist views are strikingly rare in the U.S., according to the survey, which claims that only 3.8 per cent of residents are reluctant to have a neighbour of another race."



[URL='http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3061567/Is-region-racist-Hate-map-reveals-dramatic-divide-eastern-western-states.html[/QUOTE']http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3061567/Is-region-racist-Hate-map-reveals-dramatic-divide-eastern-western-states.html[/QUOTE[/URL]]

Based on title alone~ Same racism, different perspective. It's why Americans in 2015 want to judge the Muslim bible because it talks of murder without recognizing Murder in the Bible.
Murder in the Bible

 

[Unkotare]

they also taught me that to them, everyone who is not Japanese is inferior.

Repeating such ignorant bullshit suggests you are flat-out lying about having ever set foot in the country, let alone knowing anyone there well.

 

[Yarddog]

...You seem to be going out of your way to bring in Arabs as well as to shift the focus from the European transporters to Africans...

Just helping to spread the good cheer... spreading the blame to the historically accurate multiple parties who share substantial guilt in the matter.

The bizarre fact is, slavery has appeared on every continent and within every race; Europeans enslaving Europeans, Africans enslaving Africans, Asians, Native Americans etc, so its presence in Africa was the norm in the world -- not the exception...

It's also largely a matter of when slavery was ended as a practice, in Region A or B, and, in connection with One's Own, rather than The Other Guy.

...What was new about the transatlantic commerce was the concept of shipping said slaves to an entirely different part of the world on a journey that to its human cargo must have seemed effectively like one of us being abducted by aliens and sent to a distant planet. It was a whole new level of meaning to the already-iffy concept of slavery and begat the invention of the instrument used to justify such a new paradigm: racism...

Yep.

...Africans did not invent that. Nor did Arabs.

Hmmmmm...

You seem in rather insistent upon defending Africans and Arabs in this matter.

Perhaps I should not have chimed-in with an accurate sharing of the blame amongst parties... it detracts from the Bash Whitey Festival.

Meanwhile...

I don't know enough about African slavery across the continent to say whether they invented anything analogous in their own travels, although, my Spidey-Sense tells me that they were sufficiently 'local' or 'regional' so that there was very little cross-over between regions within the African continent, for slavery that they practiced in the inner regions.

I DO know that the Muslim-Arab slavers of the Barbary Coast and beyond (east and west along the shores of the Med) engaged in the bulk transport of their slaves throughout much of the then-known world, to include all of North Africa, the Middle East, Turkey, Persia and beyond, so, I'm not so sure the Arabs deserve to be let off the hook as lacking something analogous in their own right.

The Muslim-Arab slave-trade was far too profitable not to have invented such analogies over the many and long centuries that they were the world's Premiere Slave Traders.

I'm pointing out that you seem desperate to hang a combination Arab/African coat of paint on what was in fact a European practice. The fact is, as you just agreed above, racism was invented (by Europeans) to rationalize their treatment of human cargo as business capital, and the fact is Africans and Arabs did not. Ergo there is nothing to "defend" involving either group for a simple nonexistence of the practice.

Now when some revisionista attempts to distort history to bizarre misshapen forms, I'll be there to push it back into the shape in which it belongs. If that's an issue, then... don't distort the history in the first place.

Racism been around a long time, Arabs been shipping east africans to Arab countries for hundreds of years before Europeans, Ive been to fort Jesus in Mombasa which was controlled by the Sultan of Oman, after they conquered it from the Portuguese, Ive stood in the walkway where they loaded slaves into ships, Arab ships. Omanis made a lot of money off the slave trade. The reason you dont see blacks in arab countries is because they were all castrated.

the Arabs were the ultimate racists of their time

10 Facts About The Arab Enslavement Of Black People Not Taught In Schools - Atlanta Blackstar

 

[Unkotare]

I learned how they think.

Saying that about any 'people' of any country reveals ignorance if not outright stupidity.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

...You seem to be going out of your way to bring in Arabs as well as to shift the focus from the European transporters to Africans...

Just helping to spread the good cheer... spreading the blame to the historically accurate multiple parties who share substantial guilt in the matter.

The bizarre fact is, slavery has appeared on every continent and within every race; Europeans enslaving Europeans, Africans enslaving Africans, Asians, Native Americans etc, so its presence in Africa was the norm in the world -- not the exception...

It's also largely a matter of when slavery was ended as a practice, in Region A or B, and, in connection with One's Own, rather than The Other Guy.

...What was new about the transatlantic commerce was the concept of shipping said slaves to an entirely different part of the world on a journey that to its human cargo must have seemed effectively like one of us being abducted by aliens and sent to a distant planet. It was a whole new level of meaning to the already-iffy concept of slavery and begat the invention of the instrument used to justify such a new paradigm: racism...

Yep.

...Africans did not invent that. Nor did Arabs.

Hmmmmm...

You seem in rather insistent upon defending Africans and Arabs in this matter.

Perhaps I should not have chimed-in with an accurate sharing of the blame amongst parties... it detracts from the Bash Whitey Festival.

Meanwhile...

I don't know enough about African slavery across the continent to say whether they invented anything analogous in their own travels, although, my Spidey-Sense tells me that they were sufficiently 'local' or 'regional' so that there was very little cross-over between regions within the African continent, for slavery that they practiced in the inner regions.

I DO know that the Muslim-Arab slavers of the Barbary Coast and beyond (east and west along the shores of the Med) engaged in the bulk transport of their slaves throughout much of the then-known world, to include all of North Africa, the Middle East, Turkey, Persia and beyond, so, I'm not so sure the Arabs deserve to be let off the hook as lacking something analogous in their own right.

The Muslim-Arab slave-trade was far too profitable not to have invented such analogies over the many and long centuries that they were the world's Premiere Slave Traders.

I'm pointing out that you seem desperate to hang a combination Arab/African coat of paint on what was in fact a European practice. The fact is, as you just agreed above, racism was invented (by Europeans) to rationalize their treatment of human cargo as business capital, and the fact is Africans and Arabs did not. Ergo there is nothing to "defend" involving either group for a simple nonexistence of the practice.

Now when some revisionista attempts to distort history to bizarre misshapen forms, I'll be there to push it back into the shape in which it belongs. If that's an issue, then... don't distort the history in the first place.

While you're on the topic of revising history, what's this about racism being INVENTED to justify the slave trade? I mean, what is it aside from the most ignorant thing anyone on this thread has claimed?

It must be purely coincidence that the lines along which wars were fought prior to the triangle trade, along which nations were drawn, along which caste systems were laid out, were based on ethnicity more often than not.

I guess than Asian subsects didn't start declaring their superiority over each other until the evil white man gave them the idea that people who look different are different.

Sorry, but when you consider that each evolution of primate leading to man tended to wipe out those less evolved primates in their regions of habitation, I think it's hard to deny that we're naturally a tribalistic species.

Add to that the fact that humans subconsciously analyze others' emotional state based on subtle changes in facial expression and body language and assess whether they're a potential threat based primarily on these visual cues. This implies that our brains are wired to assess threats based mostly on how they look.

Now, given that humans tend toward tribalism and are wired to assess threats based on what they look like, it follows as the most natural thing in the world that the tribalism would fall along the lines of those who look familiar (like your family) vs those who don't.

The European slave traders didn't invent racism, they just played on existing tendencies.

 

[Correll]

It's ironic that the country formerly known as England was the primary source of slaves to the New World when it was profitable to the crazy Monarchs who executed the Irish rabble for minor violations. Now the idiot mostly left wing excuse for the U.K. press dares to judge parameters of alleged worldwide racism based on the use of the "N" word? ? Give me a break. It's all bull shit.

Trust me, Ireland was never the "primary source of slaves". Inflate much?

In very early colonial times, indentured servants and convicts were used fairly heavily.

I've never seen comparisons in amounts and timelines between them and African slaves.

The first Irish slaves were sent here in 1625, some 30,000 of a number that would eventually total 300,000. Considering that Brazil alone had been importing African slaves for more than a century before that, a number that would approach a total of five million (over sixteen times that amount), I think that's all the comparison we need.

Mmm, interesting you compare totals though out the entire period of slavery.when Whitehall was mentioning a specific limited time period.

I grant you it might be hard to find the numbers broken down as we would need to see if Ireland was ever the number one origin for any time period.

Seems to me the burden of proof would be on Whitehall, since he brought it up.

....

NOrmally true.

BUt you made that definitive statement that the Irish were NEVER the primary source of forced labor.

That implies that you have information showing that. Information that you have not been able to show us.

Me? I know that I do not know. I know that there were a lot of convict labor early on. I know that I have never seen a breakdown or a comparison of convict to African slave numbers for any period, let alone all periods.

You seem emotionally invested in the idea that African Slaves were always the primary source of slaves.

Why is that?

 

[healthmyths]

Two different studies here. One involved a study of people who googled the 'n' word. Another looked at twitter comments using the 'n' word in negative ways. I would take it that blacks calling each other that wouldn't count.

Also, there are numbers regarding polls about whether people would be okay living next to other races.

It's a little surprising that it's not the rampant problem the media and race baiters would suggest. It exists and we all know it, but I suspect that people have been trained to see it when it is not present.

More white suspects are shot by cops than black suspects, but that isn't how the media portrays cops. You'd think white suspects are let off the hook, or not stopped at all by cops, while cops go out looking for blacks just so they can make up a reason to harass them.

University of Maryland studied Google searches for "n" word and made this map.

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/04/308406-often-people-area-google-controversial-term/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=organic&utm_content=conservativedaily&utm_campaign=Culture



"The map looks strikingly similar to a recent a map of racist Tweets made by researchers at Humboldt State University.

While racism may appear rife in the US, a separate study found that overall, Western countries are the most accepting of other cultures with Britain, the U.S.and Australia more tolerant than anywhere else.

The data came from the World Value Survey, which measured the social attitudes of people in different countries.

The country with the highest proportion of 'intolerant' people who wanted neighbours similar to them was Jordan, where 51.4 per cent of the population would refuse to live next to someone of a different race.

Next was India with 43.5 per cent.

Racist views are strikingly rare in the U.S., according to the survey, which claims that only 3.8 per cent of residents are reluctant to have a neighbour of another race."



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3061567/Is-region-racist-Hate-map-reveals-dramatic-divide-eastern-western-states.html

Was the phrase "get whitey" or "whitey", or "cracker" or "red-neck" surveyed?

 

[healthmyths]

Also was the ethnicity of the person who used the "n-" word also identified?
For the last several years, rap artists have increasingly used "******" in their lyrics, repackaging it and selling it not just to their own inner-city neighborhoods but to the largely white suburbs. In his song "Straight Up Nigga," Ice-T raps, "I'm a nigga in America, and that much I flaunt," and indeed, a large portion of his record sales are in white America.
Rap s Embrace of ****** Fires Bitter Debate - NYTimes.com

 

[Pogo]

...You seem to be going out of your way to bring in Arabs as well as to shift the focus from the European transporters to Africans...

Just helping to spread the good cheer... spreading the blame to the historically accurate multiple parties who share substantial guilt in the matter.

The bizarre fact is, slavery has appeared on every continent and within every race; Europeans enslaving Europeans, Africans enslaving Africans, Asians, Native Americans etc, so its presence in Africa was the norm in the world -- not the exception...

It's also largely a matter of when slavery was ended as a practice, in Region A or B, and, in connection with One's Own, rather than The Other Guy.

...What was new about the transatlantic commerce was the concept of shipping said slaves to an entirely different part of the world on a journey that to its human cargo must have seemed effectively like one of us being abducted by aliens and sent to a distant planet. It was a whole new level of meaning to the already-iffy concept of slavery and begat the invention of the instrument used to justify such a new paradigm: racism...

Yep.

...Africans did not invent that. Nor did Arabs.

Hmmmmm...

You seem in rather insistent upon defending Africans and Arabs in this matter.

Perhaps I should not have chimed-in with an accurate sharing of the blame amongst parties... it detracts from the Bash Whitey Festival.

Meanwhile...

I don't know enough about African slavery across the continent to say whether they invented anything analogous in their own travels, although, my Spidey-Sense tells me that they were sufficiently 'local' or 'regional' so that there was very little cross-over between regions within the African continent, for slavery that they practiced in the inner regions.

I DO know that the Muslim-Arab slavers of the Barbary Coast and beyond (east and west along the shores of the Med) engaged in the bulk transport of their slaves throughout much of the then-known world, to include all of North Africa, the Middle East, Turkey, Persia and beyond, so, I'm not so sure the Arabs deserve to be let off the hook as lacking something analogous in their own right.

The Muslim-Arab slave-trade was far too profitable not to have invented such analogies over the many and long centuries that they were the world's Premiere Slave Traders.

I'm pointing out that you seem desperate to hang a combination Arab/African coat of paint on what was in fact a European practice. The fact is, as you just agreed above, racism was invented (by Europeans) to rationalize their treatment of human cargo as business capital, and the fact is Africans and Arabs did not. Ergo there is nothing to "defend" involving either group for a simple nonexistence of the practice.

Now when some revisionista attempts to distort history to bizarre misshapen forms, I'll be there to push it back into the shape in which it belongs. If that's an issue, then... don't distort the history in the first place.

Racism been around a long time, Arabs been shipping east africans to Arab countries for hundreds of years before Europeans, Ive been to fort Jesus in Mombasa which was controlled by the Sultan of Oman, after they conquered it from the Portuguese, Ive stood in the walkway where they loaded slaves into ships, Arab ships. Omanis made a lot of money off the slave trade. The reason you dont see blacks in arab countries is because they were all castrated.

the Arabs were the ultimate racists of their time

10 Facts About The Arab Enslavement Of Black People Not Taught In Schools - Atlanta Blackstar

"Racism".... "slave trading". Know the difference.

Racism means the judgment that one race is inferior to another. That's not a necessary element of slaving. Slavery went on for eons without the concept that a particular race was some inferior species. When European merchants started shipping slaves across an entire ocean to a new world they had nothing to do with, being not prisoners of war or born into slavery, the concept of an inferior race had to be invented. Before that time Africans were known in Europe without any particular connotation of "inferiority".

 

[Pogo]

Trust me, Ireland was never the "primary source of slaves". Inflate much?

In very early colonial times, indentured servants and convicts were used fairly heavily.

I've never seen comparisons in amounts and timelines between them and African slaves.

The first Irish slaves were sent here in 1625, some 30,000 of a number that would eventually total 300,000. Considering that Brazil alone had been importing African slaves for more than a century before that, a number that would approach a total of five million (over sixteen times that amount), I think that's all the comparison we need.

Mmm, interesting you compare totals though out the entire period of slavery.when Whitehall was mentioning a specific limited time period.

I grant you it might be hard to find the numbers broken down as we would need to see if Ireland was ever the number one origin for any time period.

Seems to me the burden of proof would be on Whitehall, since he brought it up.

....

NOrmally true.

BUt you made that definitive statement that the Irish were NEVER the primary source of forced labor.

That implies that you have information showing that. Information that you have not been able to show us.

Me? I know that I do not know. I know that there were a lot of convict labor early on. I know that I have never seen a breakdown or a comparison of convict to African slave numbers for any period, let alone all periods.

You seem emotionally invested in the idea that African Slaves were always the primary source of slaves.

Why is that?

I'm Irish, and I know a bit of that history, and I'm a Brazil Nut as well, so I already know those numbers don't add up. As I just demonstrated.

Brazil, for its part, did considerable slaving of Native Americans too, but that's not part of the topic here. Columbus and the later Spanish tried to do that in North America -- it's cheaper after all than shipping across the ocean -- but Native Americans were susceptible to disease they hadn't encountered before, in both North and South America, and Irish were less physically tolerant of the heat and simply didn't survive as long as Africans.

That's simple historical factual background. Nothing "emotional" about it; simply correcting the record.
You're welcome.

 

[Pogo]

...You seem to be going out of your way to bring in Arabs as well as to shift the focus from the European transporters to Africans...

Just helping to spread the good cheer... spreading the blame to the historically accurate multiple parties who share substantial guilt in the matter.

The bizarre fact is, slavery has appeared on every continent and within every race; Europeans enslaving Europeans, Africans enslaving Africans, Asians, Native Americans etc, so its presence in Africa was the norm in the world -- not the exception...

It's also largely a matter of when slavery was ended as a practice, in Region A or B, and, in connection with One's Own, rather than The Other Guy.

...What was new about the transatlantic commerce was the concept of shipping said slaves to an entirely different part of the world on a journey that to its human cargo must have seemed effectively like one of us being abducted by aliens and sent to a distant planet. It was a whole new level of meaning to the already-iffy concept of slavery and begat the invention of the instrument used to justify such a new paradigm: racism...

Yep.

...Africans did not invent that. Nor did Arabs.

Hmmmmm...

You seem in rather insistent upon defending Africans and Arabs in this matter.

Perhaps I should not have chimed-in with an accurate sharing of the blame amongst parties... it detracts from the Bash Whitey Festival.

Meanwhile...

I don't know enough about African slavery across the continent to say whether they invented anything analogous in their own travels, although, my Spidey-Sense tells me that they were sufficiently 'local' or 'regional' so that there was very little cross-over between regions within the African continent, for slavery that they practiced in the inner regions.

I DO know that the Muslim-Arab slavers of the Barbary Coast and beyond (east and west along the shores of the Med) engaged in the bulk transport of their slaves throughout much of the then-known world, to include all of North Africa, the Middle East, Turkey, Persia and beyond, so, I'm not so sure the Arabs deserve to be let off the hook as lacking something analogous in their own right.

The Muslim-Arab slave-trade was far too profitable not to have invented such analogies over the many and long centuries that they were the world's Premiere Slave Traders.

I'm pointing out that you seem desperate to hang a combination Arab/African coat of paint on what was in fact a European practice. The fact is, as you just agreed above, racism was invented (by Europeans) to rationalize their treatment of human cargo as business capital, and the fact is Africans and Arabs did not. Ergo there is nothing to "defend" involving either group for a simple nonexistence of the practice.

Now when some revisionista attempts to distort history to bizarre misshapen forms, I'll be there to push it back into the shape in which it belongs. If that's an issue, then... don't distort the history in the first place.

While you're on the topic of revising history, what's this about racism being INVENTED to justify the slave trade? I mean, what is it aside from the most ignorant thing anyone on this thread has claimed?

It must be purely coincidence that the lines along which wars were fought prior to the triangle trade, along which nations were drawn, along which caste systems were laid out, were based on ethnicity more often than not.

I guess than Asian subsects didn't start declaring their superiority over each other until the evil white man gave them the idea that people who look different are different.

Sorry, but when you consider that each evolution of primate leading to man tended to wipe out those less evolved primates in their regions of habitation, I think it's hard to deny that we're naturally a tribalistic species.

Add to that the fact that humans subconsciously analyze others' emotional state based on subtle changes in facial expression and body language and assess whether they're a potential threat based primarily on these visual cues. This implies that our brains are wired to assess threats based mostly on how they look.

Now, given that humans tend toward tribalism and are wired to assess threats based on what they look like, it follows as the most natural thing in the world that the tribalism would fall along the lines of those who look familiar (like your family) vs those who don't.

The European slave traders didn't invent racism, they just played on existing tendencies.

That's quite the rambling tangent. I didn't bring up "tribalism".
See post 38.