Zone1 Is Atheism Depressing?

[Meriweather]

Knowledge requires questioning the validity of things.

Begin with whatever intelligence you possess. The test about tossing something in the air and praying it won't come down is as intelligent as drinking a mouthful of sand and expecting thirst to be quenched. And then demanding the sand answer when asked why it won't quench thirst.

 

[forkup]

Our Father
Who is in heaven
Holy is your name
Your kingdom come
Your will be done

Faith also has a role.

Think about what you want. It seems you want a Genie to give you what you want. Try seeking what God wants. (That's the difference between seeking coddling and seeking to be a servant of God.)

Again, I can't determine what God wants if I'm not allowed to question if he exists. I have no way of knowing what part really is what God wants, and what part is me just guessing.

 

[Meriweather]

Again, I can't determine what God wants if I'm not allowed to question if he exists. I have no way of knowing what part really is what God wants, and what part is me just guessing.

Grasshopper...first comes learning. You know nothing of God. Learn. After that, when you have questions, seek answers. Stop waiting to be spoon fed.

 

[forkup]

Begin with whatever intelligence you possess. The test about tossing something in the air and praying it won't come down is as intelligent as drinking a mouthful of sand and expecting thirst to be quenched. And then demanding the sand answer when asked why it won't quench thirst.

If God really is omnipotent, he could make sand quench my thirst. Both examples are just rough and ready tests to see if God is willing to show himself on request. He could also just appear or imbue me with the certainty you say you possess.

You believe, and I don't doubt your sincerity, in a religion that's just one among many. And I mean thousands. Which are all different and all have people who believe and believed in whatever they believe just as sincerely. At best only one religion is right. And that truly is the best-case scenario. More likely is that you are all wrong.

Not just that. But the religion you believe in goes by a book that has demonstrably wrong information in it. Not just that, but it's full of claims that are undistinguishable from magic. Not just that. But you can trace your belief to geographical areas throughout history. Not just that your religions beliefs have changed throughout that history.

Occam's Razor. What's more likely. That your religion among all the thousands throughout history is the one that is right? Despite all these inconsistencies and fantastical claims. Or that it's just an invention of man for whatever reason?

 

[ding]

So, you are arguing that as long as I presuppose God, and don't test that presumption I can believe in God? That's true I suppose.

On the other hand, I can also believe that pigs can fly, and I really am Brad Pitt as long as I don't go to a farm and avoid any mirror. Doesn't exactly make it true now does it?

If your belief in God is dependent on not testing it, I'd argue you have no actual good reason to believe.

I am arguing you have made no efforts to answer the question was the universe created intentionally or through happenstance.

So in effect, you are presupposing the answer is happenstance without ever examining the evidence. Classic critical theory.

 

[forkup]

Grasshopper...first comes learning. You know nothing of God. Learn. After that, when you have questions, seek answers. Stop waiting to be spoon fed.

I know quite a lot about what you claim is God. I was raised Catholic. And I'm a history buff. Not to mention that I'm an inquiring soul by nature.

 

[Meriweather]

If God really is omnipotent, he could make sand quench my thirst. Both examples are just rough and ready tests to see if God is willing to show himself on request. He could also just appear or imbue me with the certainty you say you possess.

Why would God want to do that? Even better, why would you want God to do that?

If you want to see God, then seek him.

 

[Seymour Flops]

In my experience, religious protestants are very happy people. In particular fundamentalist Christians have found happiness and are eager for others to join them. The image of the angry and hateful Christian is either wholly made up, or based on political differences, or based on a small sample of isolated examples.

Most atheists I have met are pretty bitter, and often express their bitterness by ridiculign the religious.

That doesn't prove that religion, or any one religion, has it right.

 

[forkup]

I am arguing you have made no efforts to answer the question was the universe created intentionally or happenstance.

So in effect, you are presupposing the answer is happenstance without ever examining the evidence. Classic critical theory.

You do realize that I've been quoting and replying to you and other people about all these things for about a day now, right? You keep on insisting I'm not looking at the evidence when at the same time urging me to find evidence. Completely trying to switch the burden of proof from you, who makes the God claim to me who doesn't. I don't refuse to look at any evidence, nor do I reject a God claim out of hand. The only thing I'm asking is to provide actual evidence. Not some claims based on very unsound epistemology.

 

[Meriweather]

You believe, and I don't doubt your sincerity, in a religion that's just one among many. And I mean thousands. Which are all different and all have people who believe and believed in whatever they believe just as sincerely. At best only one religion is right. And that truly is the best-case scenario. More likely is that you are all wrong.

Only one religion is right!?!! Ha! The religion that is most right is about ten words ahead of the one that is most wrong. Religion is about understanding what is way beyond our ken to the best of one's ability.

 

[forkup]

Why would God want to do that? Even better, why would you want God to do that?

If you want to see God, then seek him.

Even better, why would you want God to do that?

And round and round we go. Because I want evidence of God before I accept him as real. Not the other way around.

You keep on using the word seek. But you mean assume, that's the problem.

 

[Meriweather]

Not just that. But the religion you believe in goes by a book that has demonstrably wrong information in it. Not just that, but it's full of claims that are undistinguishable from magic. Not just that. But you can trace your belief to geographical areas throughout history. Not just that your religions beliefs have changed throughout that history.

Wrong according to whom?

 

[BreezeWood]

Praise His name in the sunshine and the rain...

howabout what they taught - liberation theology, self determination the repudiation of judaism, false commandments heredity idolatry.

the christians just use their name for their own beliefs ... ram - the jew.

 

[Meriweather]

Occam's Razor. What's more likely. That your religion among all the thousands throughout history is the one that is right? Despite all these inconsistencies and fantastical claims. Or that it's just an invention of man for whatever reason?

The purpose of any religion is to bring one closer to God. Any religion that does this is the "right" one.

 

[forkup]

Only one religion is right!?!! Ha! The religion that is most right is about ten words ahead of the one that is most wrong. Religion is about understanding what is way beyond our ken to the best of one's ability.

So, your belief is only ten words ahead of believing Thor creates thunder? Or the belief that the king is actually the sun in the afterlife? Or the belief that Aliens will come down and make you transcend your form in exchange for money?

They all seem terribly different and equally unlikely not to mention demonstrably wrong.

 

[Meriweather]

I know quite a lot about what you claim is God. I was raised Catholic. And I'm a history buff. Not to mention that I'm an inquiring soul by nature.

I know a lot of people who were raised Catholic. There is a great difference between being raised Catholic and a person who lives/practices one's faith in God. I was raised by a math teacher, yet the average high school student now knows more about math than I can remember. Same about learning Spanish. Didn't continue practicing it, and I, who used to dream in Spanish, now only recall a few words. You were raised Catholic...and know so little that you throw balls into the air and expect they will remain there. I remember more Spanish and math than you remember about faith taught by the Catholic Church.

 

[BreezeWood]

Slaves should be equal.

the only reason slavery ended in the us -

is because the christians got their asses destroyed at gettysberg.

 

[Meriweather]

You keep on using the word seek. But you mean assume, that's the problem.

I say what I mean. Seek. Stop with the assumptions.

 

[forkup]

Wrong according to whom?

To science.

For instance, we know Noah's flood is BS. At least the flood as described in the Bible. Not only isn't there enough water to cover the globe. A global flood would be visible in the geological record.

You can toss Genesis. The origin of life is covered in multiple science disciplines. It's quite incredible to assume there's a person who could multiply food, raise people from the dead and arise himself. Etc. Etc.

 

[forkup]

I say what I mean. Seek. Stop with the assumptions.

It's not an assumption at this point. I'm sorry. Saying I need to find something that I can't question is assuming.