How to get to heaven...

[Gracie]

Kinda off topic...sorta.

But isn't there a Gospel Of Judas that was NOT included in the bible...along with the Gospel Of May?....and a few others? And WHO chose which gospels would go in the book to begin with? So to this day, the bible so worshipped is missing a few key pieces of the whole story, right?

Kinda like reading a whodunnit, but the last few chapters were torn out so nobody truly knows how it ended...or better yet...evidence destroyed because someone didn't want that evidence submitted. And for all these hundreds of years, everyone has been clutching a book that is not complete.

Just something to think about.

 

[Mertex]

Kinda off topic...sorta.

But isn't there a Gospel Of Judas that was NOT included in the bible...along with the Gospel Of May?....and a few others? And WHO chose which gospels would go in the book to begin with? So to this day, the bible so worshipped is missing a few key pieces of the whole story, right?

The Old Testament comes from way back (605-535 BC) - probably completed in the 2nd Century BC. The New Testament came together probably 150 AD - but discussions continued until about 400 AD. It was canonized in the 1500's. A select group of people were chosen to study the books and check to see if they met specific criteria to be included in the Bible.

The gospel of Judas was not even considered as it was not around at that time, it was just discovered in the late 1950's/1960's. And, it is not believed to have been written by Judas at all.

The Gospel of Judas was developed by a Gnostic sect in the second century A.D and was was originally written in Greek around 130-170. This fact alone tells us that it was not authored by Judas himself. The oldest extant copy is a Coptic manuscript written in Sahidic (last phase of ancient Egyptian) in the fourth or fifth century.http://carm.org/gospel-of-judas

Kinda like reading a whodunnit, but the last few chapters were torn out so nobody truly knows how it ended...or better yet...evidence destroyed because someone didn't want that evidence submitted. And for all these hundreds of years, everyone has been clutching a book that is not complete.

A little research would show that the Bible wasn't just put together willy-nilly. The group that decided which books would be included made sure that they met the required criteria. The Catholic Bible contains several other books that the select group didn't think met the criteria. I've read one of them, and it reads more like a fairy tale....not really relevant to the what the Bible is trying to get across.

Just something to think about.

Unfortunately, people form opinions based on their own assumptions or thinking, but an in-depth study of the Bible and how it came about will show you that it is worthy of being around 2000+ years.

 

[Chuckt]

Kinda off topic...sorta.

But isn't there a Gospel Of Judas that was NOT included in the bible...along with the Gospel Of May?....and a few others? And WHO chose which gospels would go in the book to begin with? So to this day, the bible so worshipped is missing a few key pieces of the whole story, right?

Kinda like reading a whodunnit, but the last few chapters were torn out so nobody truly knows how it ended...or better yet...evidence destroyed because someone didn't want that evidence submitted. And for all these hundreds of years, everyone has been clutching a book that is not complete.

Just something to think about.

The church got together and determined what the Apostles and Church Fathers used and what writings were frauds.

I have the book "The Canon of Scripture" By F.F. Bruce.

The Church which was "...built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" (Ephesians 2:20).

Then you have a framework to start asking questions like: Who were the apostles and prophets? One clue comes from Jesus and it is important for everyone to know their Bibles. "That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation."-Luke 11:50-51

There you start with a geneology of the prophets which was from Abel to Zacherias. Where would you find that? Abel is in Genesis and Zacherias would be the book of Zacherias. If you have books before or after these men then you have to have other Biblical support from Jesus or they have to be classified apart from the Prophets.

Another evidence for what was included in the Canon comes from Jesus. “…that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms concerning me.”-Luke 24:44 Jesus gives the division of scripture and it doesn’t include the Apocrapha.

So basically you have books by Moses that go from Genesis to Deuteronomy. Then you have the prophetic books like Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. and the Psalms.

The Apocrypha wasn't mentioned by Jesus in the division of scripture.

 

[Chuckt]

Kinda off topic...sorta.

But isn't there a Gospel Of Judas that was NOT included in the bible...along with the Gospel Of May?....and a few others? And WHO chose which gospels would go in the book to begin with? So to this day, the bible so worshipped is missing a few key pieces of the whole story, right?

The Old Testament comes from way back (605-535 BC) - probably completed in the 2nd Century BC. The New Testament came together probably 150 AD - but discussions continued until about 400 AD. It was canonized in the 1500's. A select group of people were chosen to study the books and check to see if they met specific criteria to be included in the Bible.

The Council of Trent wanted to canonize the Apocrypha which wasn't canonized for 1500 years.

8. ARGUMENTS AGAINST THE CANONICITY OF THE APOCRYPHA
They are not, and have never been, in the Jewish canon.
Josephus explicitly excluded them from his list.
Philo (20 B.C.-50 A.D.) neither mentions or quotes them.
They were never quoted or alluded to by Jesus Christ or any of the apostles. The sermons in the Book of Acts, which outline Jewish history, do not included apocryphal events.
Jewish scholars meeting at the Council of Jabneh did not recognize them.
Most Church Fathers in fact rejected them.
None of the Apocrypha claim inspiration or divine authority.
Many of the Apocryphal books contain historical, geographical, and chronological errors.
Many of the Apocryphal books teach heresy, contrary to the Word of God.
Their literary style is legendary and fantasy. Some stories are grotesque and demonic.
They lack the power and distinctive elements of the Word of God.

The Apocrypha

 

[Gracie]

Ok..in laymans terms....WHO were the people/church/group/sect/whatever...that CHOSE what would go in the current bible.

 

[theword]

Kinda off topic...sorta.

But isn't there a Gospel Of Judas that was NOT included in the bible...along with the Gospel Of May?....and a few others? And WHO chose which gospels would go in the book to begin with? So to this day, the bible so worshipped is missing a few key pieces of the whole story, right?

Kinda like reading a whodunnit, but the last few chapters were torn out so nobody truly knows how it ended...or better yet...evidence destroyed because someone didn't want that evidence submitted. And for all these hundreds of years, everyone has been clutching a book that is not complete.

Just something to think about.

There were thousands of saints who testified to the invisible Christ within their mind by writing and speaking words from their own vocabularies that God gives us according to His knowledge, which is the Christ. From these testimonies, we learn all about the past, present and future.

If the Roman government, who confiscated all the written testimonies of the saints as they were arrested for preaching the gospel, there would be volumes of Bibles. Not only volumes in written testimonies but millions of hours of spoken testimonies, also.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Merry Christmas word.

 

[theword]

Kinda off topic...sorta.

But isn't there a Gospel Of Judas that was NOT included in the bible...along with the Gospel Of May?....and a few others? And WHO chose which gospels would go in the book to begin with? So to this day, the bible so worshipped is missing a few key pieces of the whole story, right?

Kinda like reading a whodunnit, but the last few chapters were torn out so nobody truly knows how it ended...or better yet...evidence destroyed because someone didn't want that evidence submitted. And for all these hundreds of years, everyone has been clutching a book that is not complete.

Just something to think about.

There were thousands of saints who testified to the invisible Christ within their mind by writing and speaking words from their own vocabularies that God gives us according to His knowledge, which is the Christ. From these testimonies, we learn all about the past, present and future.

If the Roman government, who confiscated all the written testimonies of the saints as they were arrested for preaching the gospel, there would be volumes of Bibles. Not only volumes in written testimonies but millions of hours of spoken testimonies, also.

The Vatican kept their Christians from reading any written testaments that weren't recovered by the Roman guards who arrested the saints by calling them evil gnostic writings. Anyone caught reading them were tortured or even killed.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

God's opinion? You have God's opinion? Well then my arguments are most certainly invalid! How do you know God did not sanction him a saint? Does God descend from heaven to speak with you in person? Or does he send an angel to do it for him?

If God had wanted us to believe that Judas was saintly, he would have given us more information on his death.....there is no record of his asking forgiveness, repenting could just mean he was sorry he got caught. And you are right, we don't know, but I'll be surprised to see Judas in heaven.

God's opinion trumps anyone else's opinion, especially yours.

Oh, is that so? What is the point of "free will" if our words mean nothing? If the voice of change and logic and difference is automatically rejected and ridiculed? Why does our omnipotent God need worthless human slaves for anyway?

The only one that has slaves is Satan, and maybe you're applying for one of the positions, by your comments, but those of us who go to heaven are not going to be slaves, we are considered "children" of God, and no Christian treats their children as slaves.[/QUOTE]


A Christian southern plantation owner who beat his slaves repeatedly could call them his "children." And if he told the slaves that long enough, they might even come to believe it.

 

[Gracie]

Sigh.

WHO PUT THE BIBLE TOGETHER??? WHO deemed which gospels were to be put in, which were to be left out? What entity? What church? What sect? What group?

 

[Drake_Roberts]

As Vox so clearly pointed out, nobody knows what Judas was thinking in his final seconds. And we won't know till we reach the other side. Thus, this argument is actually kind of pointless.

So I will amend my statement in concession to your arguments.

In my opinion, Judas should be among the forefront of the Church's Saints.

As to your other point, if scripture is God breathed, He sure takes a long time to breathe. The Gospels were written a few decades after Jesus died on the cross. And riddle me this, if God told the Gospel writers what to say, why are they so full of glaring contradictions?

Compare Judas' betrayal of Christ which caused Jesus' death and Paul who murdered Christians. Judas hung himself but Paul repented and became the best evangelist that there was. Tell me again who clearly repented.

I think of the story of Judas, he is a shadow of the overall experience of Christ because he understands how God send the Lamb to be sacrificed in the first place. By way of the Spirit, God translates Himself into the form of the earthling man with the express purpose of being hanged on a tree. That is death, not to be the eventuality of a natural course of life, but the untimely kind, a punishment. Judas ties it all together, that without the 'betrayal' the sacrifice does not happen, and it makes no difference whether Paul repents or not.

Amen.

 

[Gracie]

Never mind. I googled it.
The Roman Catholic Church. Gotcha. Um hm. Okey dokey.

Nuff said.

 

[Chuckt]

Ok..in laymans terms....WHO were the people/church/group/sect/whatever...that CHOSE what would go in the current bible.

How and when was the canon of the Bible put together?

Study Resources :: The Canon of Scripture

https://bible.org/seriespage/bible-holy-canon-scripture

The Canon of Scripture

 

[theword]

Merry Christmas word.

Did Christmas come from the beast or from our Creator or both?

 

[Drake_Roberts]

If God is as vengeful, spiteful and punishable as these "so called" christians make him out to be, heaven will be pretty empty. I'm glad I have a kinder, gentler, more forgiving perception of God. Imagine only these few "so called" christians being the only ones in heaven. And only those that believe the way they do. But which ones? The Catholics? The evangelicals? The Mormons? They all say you must believe the way they do, to get to heaven. And if they don't say that, what sense does it make to have different denominations? Some say that God's chosen(Jews) will go to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. And the Muslims have to go to hell for the same reason. And the Hindus, Buddhists, Shintos, and Native American religions, they all have to go to hell too. So only one of the Christian religions will make it to heaven, the rest of all the peoples throughout history have to go to hell. Imagine God destroying 90% of his own creation, just for what they believe. These "so called" christians sure do make God out to be an asshole.

I believe God to be vengeful, but I don't think Heaven will be empty. Quite the contrary, in fact. I believe heaven will be filled with all peoples of all faiths who share one thing: they all follow some Almighty unquestionably.

Some people have to hold God accountable. If alerting people to the reality of God and then ultimately being sent to Hell is my lot in life, then so be it.

 

[Gracie]

Canon Schmanon. I wanted a simple question answered. Had to go find it myself.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

Kinda off topic...sorta.

But isn't there a Gospel Of Judas that was NOT included in the bible...along with the Gospel Of May?....and a few others? And WHO chose which gospels would go in the book to begin with? So to this day, the bible so worshipped is missing a few key pieces of the whole story, right?

The Old Testament comes from way back (605-535 BC) - probably completed in the 2nd Century BC. The New Testament came together probably 150 AD - but discussions continued until about 400 AD. It was canonized in the 1500's. A select group of people were chosen to study the books and check to see if they met specific criteria to be included in the Bible.

The gospel of Judas was not even considered as it was not around at that time, it was just discovered in the late 1950's/1960's. And, it is not believed to have been written by Judas at all.

The Gospel of Judas was developed by a Gnostic sect in the second century A.D and was was originally written in Greek around 130-170. This fact alone tells us that it was not authored by Judas himself. The oldest extant copy is a Coptic manuscript written in Sahidic (last phase of ancient Egyptian) in the fourth or fifth century.http://carm.org/gospel-of-judas

Kinda like reading a whodunnit, but the last few chapters were torn out so nobody truly knows how it ended...or better yet...evidence destroyed because someone didn't want that evidence submitted. And for all these hundreds of years, everyone has been clutching a book that is not complete.

A little research would show that the Bible wasn't just put together willy-nilly. The group that decided which books would be included made sure that they met the required criteria. The Catholic Bible contains several other books that the select group didn't think met the criteria. I've read one of them, and it reads more like a fairy tale....not really relevant to the what the Bible is trying to get across.

Just something to think about.

Unfortunately, people form opinions based on their own assumptions or thinking, but an in-depth study of the Bible and how it came about will show you that it is worthy of being around 2000+ years.

Let me guess... Tobit.

 

[theword]

Sigh.

WHO PUT THE BIBLE TOGETHER??? WHO deemed which gospels were to be put in, which were to be left out? What entity? What church? What sect? What group?

Christianity actually got started by antichrists and false prophets who stole the written and spoken testimonies of the true saints who witnessed Christ within their mind. Then they used them for selfish purposes to control other people and make a living off of them. After three hundred years, antichrists had started many Christ-churches that grew very popular amongst the other religions of the Roman Empire.

The saints were warning their believers about these Christ-like churches and their false gospels but after the Roman government killed them all, there wasn't anyone around to attest their new Vatican they set up in 325 a.d. to control all these Christ-like churches under one rule. Many of the writings of the true saints were stolen and changed by these antichrists and false prophets but the Vatican used special religious groups to weed through all the writings to find one's they could use to control their Christians with. It took many years to finalize which writings they used and they also manipulated them with their religious beliefs and Jewish traditions to make sure that none of their Christians would ever become saints like the ones they had killed. The reason they killed the saints is because they spoke about their false gods ( buildings built with human hands ). Rome was in love with their architects and their beautiful buildings.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

Sigh.

WHO PUT THE BIBLE TOGETHER??? WHO deemed which gospels were to be put in, which were to be left out? What entity? What church? What sect? What group?

Christianity actually got started by antichrists and false prophets who stole the written and spoken testimonies of the true saints who witnessed Christ within their mind. Then they used them for selfish purposes to control other people and make a living off of them. After three hundred years, antichrists had started many Christ-churches that grew very popular amongst the other religions of the Roman Empire.

The saints were warning their believers about these Christ-like churches and their false gospels but after the Roman government killed them all, there wasn't anyone around to attest their new Vatican they set up in 325 a.d. to control all these Christ-like churches under one rule. Many of the writings of the true saints were stolen and changed by these antichrists and false prophets but the Vatican used special religious groups to weed through all the writings to find one's they could use to control their Christians with. It took many years to finalize which writings they used and they also manipulated them with their religious beliefs and Jewish traditions to make sure that none of their Christians would ever become saints like the ones they had killed. The reason they killed the saints is because they spoke about their false gods ( buildings built with human hands ). Rome was in love with their architects and their beautiful buildings.

I swear you've posted just about that same conspiracy theory before.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Gracie, there is a lot to the Bible. It can be overwhelming and daunting. And I know you're skeptical, but there were men that sat and listened to Jesus teach. If you want to know Jesus and not religion, read John.
There will be questions and things that may not be apparent at first. You have to know for instance what the "fig tree" represents, or why Christ was crucified on Jewish Passover..... So ask lots of questions.
And ask God for wisdom. It's a good gift. It makes understanding come easier and quicker. Solomon asked God to teach him things in his sleep, and God did. So read a passage. Something Jesus said and dwell on it before you doze off. If you keep your mind on Him it is like a conduit. You'll start to get hungry for more answers and more understanding and you'll seek out both and be satisfied.

Men sat in a room full of Biblical writings that would reach to the ceiling if all were bound together, and asked God to determine what was to go into His Book. God's response was the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of God compiled the Book. What wasn't included was still kept and can be referred to but what is in the Bible was inspired by God. And you can tell because it all fits together like a glove.