How to get to heaven...

[Mertex]

Ah, Judas. Everyone is so quick to demonize him. In my humble opinion, he should be among the forefront of the saints.

Really, why is that? Because he betrayed Jesus? Because he was stealing from the treasury? Because he thought Jesus was going to become the ruler then and there and he (Judas) would be sitting pretty, and when it didn't work out, he threw Jesus under the bus?
Because rather than ask forgiveness he took the chicken way out?

Or do you have some other information that we're missing?

Isn't Catholicism the religion of forgiveness? Of mercy? Peter denied and rejected Christ, yet everyone practically worships him! Now Judas, yes he did make the greatest sin and betray Jesus, but what did he do afterwards? He went back to the priests full of guilt and sorrow and asked for them to set Jesus free in return for the money. Funny how everyone forgets that, eh? Never fits in with their narrow-minded view of the world.

Peter realized he had sinned (when he denied Jesus) and wept bitterly. One does not weep bitterly unless one has remorse over what one has done, and one can surmise that he most assuredly ask forgiveness because he went and boldly preached about Jesus and was later crucified for preaching about Jesus, upside down, because he didn't think he was worthy of being crucified the same way Jesus was.
Mathew 26 : 75And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

He did not try to ask for forgiveness, he tried to earn it. What did Peter do? He went and cried about it. Judas? Tried to repent and have Jesus released.

Judas sinned against God, so going to the people that had paid him and trying to return the money wasn't asking forgiveness of the one he sinned against. When you hurt someone, you don't ask their forgiveness by going to someone else and try and make up for it. You go to the person you offend, and seek their forgiveness.

Haven't you ever betrayed someone before? Done something wrong? But it was to late to ask forgiveness? So you took the "easy way out" and tried to make up for what you did. Sounds familiar.

It wasn't too late to ask forgiveness. As soon as he realized what he had done, instead of going to the people that paid him he should have gotten on his knees and asked God to forgive him. It is never too late to repent and ask forgiveness, unless you have already died, then it is too late.

That is why he should be one of the Church's leading saints.

Fortunately we have God's opinion on it, and God did not sanction him a saint, and God's opinion trumps anyone else's opinion, especially yours.

 

[tinydancer]

Thanks, Vox! I know of many stories of Catholics who refused to deny their faith in Christ, priests and nuns held in communist prisons who refused to blaspheme the eucharist or do some blasphemous act for the communists. Richard Wurmbrand gave many accounts of such people in his book Marx and Satan. Which I read and have given away to a friend so they can read it. Otherwise I would quote some stories here. He was held in Communist prisons and tortured for Christ for 17 years and he met people of many different faiths, Catholics, Lutherans, Episcopals, Pentacostal, Methodist....... I am quite sure if he were here he would explain the difference in believing one has faith and having one's faith tested to know one has faith. These are two completely different things and as I recall? None of them denied Christ. Not one that I can recall. It seems to be the assumption among the evangelical believers that we will not be here for any such sufferings because as Americans we are special and would be raptured before we were ever tortured for Christ by Communists. As the days draw nearer to Communist rule inside the USA I believe that anything is possible and my prayer is we are all ready for "anything." It feels like the beginnings of Matthew 24 already to me.

There was just one ecumenical Church of Christ in the soviet GULAG.
It included everybody, even non-Christian believers - the stories are described by many survivors, witnesses and even GULAG workers themselves ( yes, there were people of faith and character even on THAT side).

As for the rupture... I don't believe it. neither do I believe in millennium and other Armageddon predictions. I hold mostly preterist views of the Revelation with some of the symbolic hint to that. But I do not think the people who wholeheartedly believe the other way are in any way wrong - and that is the beauty of being a Christian
I just think it is going to be as simple as Jesus Himself described it. I just stick to the scripture.

How Jesus described it? With all of the destruction and death and stuff? And by the way, Revelation is technically scripture.

Hey guys. I hate walking into this forum, but sometimes I just have to.

Jesus didn't write a thing.

 

[tinydancer]

Really, why is that? Because he betrayed Jesus? Because he was stealing from the treasury? Because he thought Jesus was going to become the ruler then and there and he (Judas) would be sitting pretty, and when it didn't work out, he threw Jesus under the bus?
Because rather than ask forgiveness he took the chicken way out?

Or do you have some other information that we're missing?

you have not heard the modern day theory that if not of Judas, Jesus Christ would not be able to accomplish His mission.
That is widely circulated amongst some circles.

Like mine. Nobody would worship Jesus if he hadn't died on the cross. If not for Judas, half of the Old Testament prophecies wouldn't have been fulfilled. How well do you think the early Catholic Church would have survived if not for being able to claim that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament? The Chief Priests and elders would have a much easier time trying to dismantle the religion piece by piece.

Right here you are full of shit. Now consider me a female Ted Nugent Christian and be prepared to get your ass kicked.

Nobody would worship Jesus if he hadn't died on the cross

Men and women already had recognized he was the son of God.

 

[Vox]

There was just one ecumenical Church of Christ in the soviet GULAG.
It included everybody, even non-Christian believers - the stories are described by many survivors, witnesses and even GULAG workers themselves ( yes, there were people of faith and character even on THAT side).

As for the rupture... I don't believe it. neither do I believe in millennium and other Armageddon predictions. I hold mostly preterist views of the Revelation with some of the symbolic hint to that. But I do not think the people who wholeheartedly believe the other way are in any way wrong - and that is the beauty of being a Christian
I just think it is going to be as simple as Jesus Himself described it. I just stick to the scripture.

How Jesus described it? With all of the destruction and death and stuff? And by the way, Revelation is technically scripture.

Hey guys. I hate walking into this forum, but sometimes I just have to.

Jesus didn't write a thing.

he have not ever read any of the Gospels otherwise he would understand what is being referred to
only somebody so ignorant as to what was Jesus actually teaching about would assume Jesus was WRITING about anything.
But He was quite firm how His Second Coming and the End of the World look like.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

Mark 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent (G3340, metanoe&#333.

What Jesus was preaching was for men to repent and the word metanoeo is used which means:

1) to change one's mind, i.e. to repent
2) to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

When the Bible talks about Judas repenting, it uses a different word.

Matthew 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented (G3338, metamelomai) himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

1) it is a care to one afterwards
a) it repents one, to repent one's self

What Judas had was "regret" and not true repentance. True repentance is metanoeo which means "to change one's mind". It tells us the word for repentance in Judas' case was "regret" and not a change of mind because he hung himself.
Instead of Judas going to Jesus or God and asking for forgiveness, Judas went to the religious leaders and addressed them:

"Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that" (Matthew 27:4)

How did Judas see to it or in King James "see thou to that"? How did Judas see to it? He hung himself instead of repenting.


True repentance is turning from yourself to God:

Acts 14:15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:

1 Thessalonians 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

Judas was concerned about himself so he turned not to God but unto the religious leaders in Matthew 27:4 for forgiveness.

(C) Chuckt
Please don't steal!

Who wrote those Gospels and passages again? Ah, Paul, a former non-believer who probably believed everything he was told on the matter, and followers of Jesus who, even many years later, probably hated Judas for what he did.

The Gospel writers were human, not God.

Paul's gospel is in 1 Corinthians 15. Paul didn't write Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

Scripture is God breathed (II Timothy 3:16).

If Judas repented, would he have sinned by taking his life? That is contradictory to say that he repented and also sinned.

Judas was sorry that he got caught. There is a difference between being sorry you got caught and true repentance.

Going from a little sin to stealing from the money bag to betraying Jesus for blood money wasn't just a slight little mistake that happened by accident. It was a gradual widening of Judas' walk away from doing what was right over a period of time. For me to get to that position that Judas got, I have to willingly ignore my conscience, I have to push myself over my values and my conscience. I have to fight my conscience to get there. This wasn't a flash in the pan experience. This is someone who over time move far and far away from Jesus. He was sorry he got caught. He didn't care or he wouldn't have done it.

As Vox so clearly pointed out, nobody knows what Judas was thinking in his final seconds. And we won't know till we reach the other side. Thus, this argument is actually kind of pointless.

So I will amend my statement in concession to your arguments.

In my opinion, Judas should be among the forefront of the Church's Saints.

As to your other point, if scripture is God breathed, He sure takes a long time to breathe. The Gospels were written a few decades after Jesus died on the cross. And riddle me this, if God told the Gospel writers what to say, why are they so full of glaring contradictions?

 

[Drake_Roberts]

There was just one ecumenical Church of Christ in the soviet GULAG.
It included everybody, even non-Christian believers - the stories are described by many survivors, witnesses and even GULAG workers themselves ( yes, there were people of faith and character even on THAT side).

As for the rupture... I don't believe it. neither do I believe in millennium and other Armageddon predictions. I hold mostly preterist views of the Revelation with some of the symbolic hint to that. But I do not think the people who wholeheartedly believe the other way are in any way wrong - and that is the beauty of being a Christian
I just think it is going to be as simple as Jesus Himself described it. I just stick to the scripture.

How Jesus described it? With all of the destruction and death and stuff? And by the way, Revelation is technically scripture.

Read the Gospels and you will find out. Revelation is not Gospels, it is a totally separate part of the Bible.

I know that! I am a flipping Catholic after all. Revelation is the last book in the Bible, located immediately following Jude. It is not Gospels, but I never claimed that. It is still, nonetheless, scripture.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

you have not heard the modern day theory that if not of Judas, Jesus Christ would not be able to accomplish His mission.
That is widely circulated amongst some circles.

Like mine. Nobody would worship Jesus if he hadn't died on the cross. If not for Judas, half of the Old Testament prophecies wouldn't have been fulfilled. How well do you think the early Catholic Church would have survived if not for being able to claim that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament? The Chief Priests and elders would have a much easier time trying to dismantle the religion piece by piece.

BS.

The problem of Judas is not only that he betrayed Jesus, but that he never repented - and he has had time and the possibility. He did regret what he did and threw the money back, but he did not come back to Jesus and committed suicide. Yet nobody knows what was he thinking the last few moments and therefore it is a great enigma, which we will learn about on the other side.

Still doesn't make Judas a hero or a "saint" as you have proposed - that is a BS

As you said, nobody knows what Judas thought in his final seconds. How can you know he did not repent? Maybe God told him the only way to save his soul was to sacrifice his life in payment. Hell, Jesus let himself be killed so that we all could be saved of our sins, how is that any different than suicide?

 

[Drake_Roberts]

Really, why is that? Because he betrayed Jesus? Because he was stealing from the treasury? Because he thought Jesus was going to become the ruler then and there and he (Judas) would be sitting pretty, and when it didn't work out, he threw Jesus under the bus?
Because rather than ask forgiveness he took the chicken way out?

Or do you have some other information that we're missing?

Isn't Catholicism the religion of forgiveness? Of mercy? Peter denied and rejected Christ, yet everyone practically worships him! Now Judas, yes he did make the greatest sin and betray Jesus, but what did he do afterwards? He went back to the priests full of guilt and sorrow and asked for them to set Jesus free in return for the money. Funny how everyone forgets that, eh? Never fits in with their narrow-minded view of the world.

Peter realized he had sinned (when he denied Jesus) and wept bitterly. One does not weep bitterly unless one has remorse over what one has done, and one can surmise that he most assuredly ask forgiveness because he went and boldly preached about Jesus and was later crucified for preaching about Jesus, upside down, because he didn't think he was worthy of being crucified the same way Jesus was.
Mathew 26 : 75And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.


Judas sinned against God, so going to the people that had paid him and trying to return the money wasn't asking forgiveness of the one he sinned against. When you hurt someone, you don't ask their forgiveness by going to someone else and try and make up for it. You go to the person you offend, and seek their forgiveness.

Haven't you ever betrayed someone before? Done something wrong? But it was to late to ask forgiveness? So you took the "easy way out" and tried to make up for what you did. Sounds familiar.

It wasn't too late to ask forgiveness. As soon as he realized what he had done, instead of going to the people that paid him he should have gotten on his knees and asked God to forgive him. It is never too late to repent and ask forgiveness, unless you have already died, then it is too late.

That is why he should be one of the Church's leading saints.

Fortunately we have God's opinion on it, and God did not sanction him a saint, and God's opinion trumps anyone else's opinion, especially yours.

God's opinion? You have God's opinion? Well then my arguments are most certainly invalid! How do you know God did not sanction him a saint? Does God descend from heaven to speak with you in person? Or does he send an angel to do it for him?

God's opinion trumps anyone else's opinion, especially yours.

Oh, is that so? What is the point of "free will" if our words mean nothing? If the voice of change and logic and difference is automatically rejected and ridiculed? Why does our omnipotent God need worthless human slaves for anyway?

 

[Gracie]

How can you know he did not repent? Maybe God told him the only way to save his soul was to sacrifice his life in payment. Hell, Jesus let himself be killed so that we all could be saved of our sins

This makes a LOT of sense to me. And proves that nobody can judge another because none of us know for sure what another persons convos are with God.

 

[bayoubill]

I was sitting around in church the other day, twiddling my thumbs, listening to my parish's priest talk about good men and getting to heaven when I thought of this.

I know plenty of good, kind atheists (most of them are nicer people than the Catholics I know) and I was wondering about them getting to heaven. Pretend there was a hypothetical atheist named... Michael. Michael donated almost everything he had to the poor, keeping only just enough to survive on. Never did he have anything nice or luxurious or fancy. He had loads of friends because he was kind to everyone. But every day, he denied the existence of God. One sad day, Michael died of, I don't know, heart disease. Would he go to heaven even though he constantly proclaimed that God (and Satan) did not exist?


This is all completely hypothetical, of course.

If God is indeed that small-minded that he/she/it would send this good person to somewhere other than the promised land, then fuck him/her/it...

I wanna go wherever it is that Michael gets sent off to...

I don't want to spend eternity with an overbearing asshole...

I already have that in this life with my wife...

 

[Mertex]

God's opinion? You have God's opinion? Well then my arguments are most certainly invalid! How do you know God did not sanction him a saint? Does God descend from heaven to speak with you in person? Or does he send an angel to do it for him?

If God had wanted us to believe that Judas was saintly, he would have given us more information on his death.....there is no record of his asking forgiveness, repenting could just mean he was sorry he got caught. And you are right, we don't know, but I'll be surprised to see Judas in heaven.

God's opinion trumps anyone else's opinion, especially yours.

Oh, is that so? What is the point of "free will" if our words mean nothing? If the voice of change and logic and difference is automatically rejected and ridiculed? Why does our omnipotent God need worthless human slaves for anyway?[/QUOTE]
The only one that has slaves is Satan, and maybe you're applying for one of the positions, by your comments, but those of us who go to heaven are not going to be slaves, we are considered "children" of God, and no Christian treats their children as slaves.

 

[tinydancer]

God's opinion? You have God's opinion? Well then my arguments are most certainly invalid! How do you know God did not sanction him a saint? Does God descend from heaven to speak with you in person? Or does he send an angel to do it for him?

If God had wanted us to believe that Judas was saintly, he would have given us more information on his death.....there is no record of his asking forgiveness, repenting could just mean he was sorry he got caught. And you are right, we don't know, but I'll be surprised to see Judas in heaven.

God's opinion trumps anyone else's opinion, especially yours.

Oh, is that so? What is the point of "free will" if our words mean nothing? If the voice of change and logic and difference is automatically rejected and ridiculed? Why does our omnipotent God need worthless human slaves for anyway?

The only one that has slaves is Satan, and maybe you're applying for one of the positions, by your comments, but those of us who go to heaven are not going to be slaves, we are considered "children" of God, and no Christian treats their children as slaves.[/QUOTE]

I think it's be a bad deal if I have to sit next to Adolf. Now I know we are supposed to love everyone who comes to Christ, but you put me next to that bastard at the dinner table?

My fork is going to hit two balls.

I have to work this out.

 

[tinydancer]

Who wrote those Gospels and passages again? Ah, Paul, a former non-believer who probably believed everything he was told on the matter, and followers of Jesus who, even many years later, probably hated Judas for what he did.

The Gospel writers were human, not God.

Paul's gospel is in 1 Corinthians 15. Paul didn't write Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

Scripture is God breathed (II Timothy 3:16).

If Judas repented, would he have sinned by taking his life? That is contradictory to say that he repented and also sinned.

Judas was sorry that he got caught. There is a difference between being sorry you got caught and true repentance.

Going from a little sin to stealing from the money bag to betraying Jesus for blood money wasn't just a slight little mistake that happened by accident. It was a gradual widening of Judas' walk away from doing what was right over a period of time. For me to get to that position that Judas got, I have to willingly ignore my conscience, I have to push myself over my values and my conscience. I have to fight my conscience to get there. This wasn't a flash in the pan experience. This is someone who over time move far and far away from Jesus. He was sorry he got caught. He didn't care or he wouldn't have done it.

As Vox so clearly pointed out, nobody knows what Judas was thinking in his final seconds. And we won't know till we reach the other side. Thus, this argument is actually kind of pointless.

So I will amend my statement in concession to your arguments.

In my opinion, Judas should be among the forefront of the Church's Saints.

As to your other point, if scripture is God breathed, He sure takes a long time to breathe. The Gospels were written a few decades after Jesus died on the cross. And riddle me this, if God told the Gospel writers what to say, why are they so full of glaring contradictions?

I'm too stoned out on the mighty NyQuil. but I will love to continue the conversation later. Trying to post without bazooka barfing here. I think I have a Norwalk thingy going on.

 

[Chuckt]

Who wrote those Gospels and passages again? Ah, Paul, a former non-believer who probably believed everything he was told on the matter, and followers of Jesus who, even many years later, probably hated Judas for what he did.

The Gospel writers were human, not God.

Paul's gospel is in 1 Corinthians 15. Paul didn't write Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

Scripture is God breathed (II Timothy 3:16).

If Judas repented, would he have sinned by taking his life? That is contradictory to say that he repented and also sinned.

Judas was sorry that he got caught. There is a difference between being sorry you got caught and true repentance.

Going from a little sin to stealing from the money bag to betraying Jesus for blood money wasn't just a slight little mistake that happened by accident. It was a gradual widening of Judas' walk away from doing what was right over a period of time. For me to get to that position that Judas got, I have to willingly ignore my conscience, I have to push myself over my values and my conscience. I have to fight my conscience to get there. This wasn't a flash in the pan experience. This is someone who over time move far and far away from Jesus. He was sorry he got caught. He didn't care or he wouldn't have done it.

As Vox so clearly pointed out, nobody knows what Judas was thinking in his final seconds. And we won't know till we reach the other side. Thus, this argument is actually kind of pointless.

So I will amend my statement in concession to your arguments.

In my opinion, Judas should be among the forefront of the Church's Saints.

As to your other point, if scripture is God breathed, He sure takes a long time to breathe. The Gospels were written a few decades after Jesus died on the cross. And riddle me this, if God told the Gospel writers what to say, why are they so full of glaring contradictions?

Compare Judas' betrayal of Christ which caused Jesus' death and Paul who murdered Christians. Judas hung himself but Paul repented and became the best evangelist that there was. Tell me again who clearly repented.

 

[TheShinyOne]

Paul's gospel is in 1 Corinthians 15. Paul didn't write Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

Scripture is God breathed (II Timothy 3:16).

If Judas repented, would he have sinned by taking his life? That is contradictory to say that he repented and also sinned.

Judas was sorry that he got caught. There is a difference between being sorry you got caught and true repentance.

Going from a little sin to stealing from the money bag to betraying Jesus for blood money wasn't just a slight little mistake that happened by accident. It was a gradual widening of Judas' walk away from doing what was right over a period of time. For me to get to that position that Judas got, I have to willingly ignore my conscience, I have to push myself over my values and my conscience. I have to fight my conscience to get there. This wasn't a flash in the pan experience. This is someone who over time move far and far away from Jesus. He was sorry he got caught. He didn't care or he wouldn't have done it.

As Vox so clearly pointed out, nobody knows what Judas was thinking in his final seconds. And we won't know till we reach the other side. Thus, this argument is actually kind of pointless.

So I will amend my statement in concession to your arguments.

In my opinion, Judas should be among the forefront of the Church's Saints.

As to your other point, if scripture is God breathed, He sure takes a long time to breathe. The Gospels were written a few decades after Jesus died on the cross. And riddle me this, if God told the Gospel writers what to say, why are they so full of glaring contradictions?

Compare Judas' betrayal of Christ which caused Jesus' death and Paul who murdered Christians. Judas hung himself but Paul repented and became the best evangelist that there was. Tell me again who clearly repented.

I think of the story of Judas, he is a shadow of the overall experience of Christ because he understands how God send the Lamb to be sacrificed in the first place. By way of the Spirit, God translates Himself into the form of the earthling man with the express purpose of being hanged on a tree. That is death, not to be the eventuality of a natural course of life, but the untimely kind, a punishment. Judas ties it all together, that without the 'betrayal' the sacrifice does not happen, and it makes no difference whether Paul repents or not.

 

[Indofred]

I was sitting around in church the other day, twiddling my thumbs, listening to my parish's priest talk about good men and getting to heaven when I thought of this.

All these theories about how to get in are rubbish.
All you have to do is know something about God that the Almighty doesn't want into the open.
That way, you'll get a gold ticket upstairs and all the angels your tongue can handle.

 

[Drake_Roberts]

I was sitting around in church the other day, twiddling my thumbs, listening to my parish's priest talk about good men and getting to heaven when I thought of this.

I know plenty of good, kind atheists (most of them are nicer people than the Catholics I know) and I was wondering about them getting to heaven. Pretend there was a hypothetical atheist named... Michael. Michael donated almost everything he had to the poor, keeping only just enough to survive on. Never did he have anything nice or luxurious or fancy. He had loads of friends because he was kind to everyone. But every day, he denied the existence of God. One sad day, Michael died of, I don't know, heart disease. Would he go to heaven even though he constantly proclaimed that God (and Satan) did not exist?


This is all completely hypothetical, of course.

If God is indeed that small-minded that he/she/it would send this good person to somewhere other than the promised land, then fuck him/her/it...

I wanna go wherever it is that Michael gets sent off to...

I don't want to spend eternity with an overbearing asshole...

I already have that in this life with my wife...

Amen.

 

[hangover]

If God is as vengeful, spiteful and punishable as these "so called" christians make him out to be, heaven will be pretty empty. I'm glad I have a kinder, gentler, more forgiving perception of God. Imagine only these few "so called" christians being the only ones in heaven. And only those that believe the way they do. But which ones? The Catholics? The evangelicals? The Mormons? They all say you must believe the way they do, to get to heaven. And if they don't say that, what sense does it make to have different denominations? Some say that God's chosen(Jews) will go to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. And the Muslims have to go to hell for the same reason. And the Hindus, Buddhists, Shintos, and Native American religions, they all have to go to hell too. So only one of the Christian religions will make it to heaven, the rest of all the peoples throughout history have to go to hell. Imagine God destroying 90% of his own creation, just for what they believe. These "so called" christians sure do make God out to be an asshole.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If God is as vengeful, spiteful and punishable as these "so called" christians make him out to be, heaven will be pretty empty. I'm glad I have a kinder, gentler, more forgiving perception of God. Imagine only these few "so called" christians being the only ones in heaven. And only those that believe the way they do. But which ones? The Catholics? The evangelicals? The Mormons? They all say you must believe the way they do, to get to heaven. And if they don't say that, what sense does it make to have different denominations? Some say that God's chosen(Jews) will go to hell because they don't believe in Jesus. And the Muslims have to go to hell for the same reason. And the Hindus, Buddhists, Shintos, and Native American religions, they all have to go to hell too. So only one of the Christian religions will make it to heaven, the rest of all the peoples throughout history have to go to hell. Imagine God destroying 90% of his own creation, just for what they believe. These "so called" christians sure do make God out to be an asshole.

I have to agree with you. I've never seen so many people, Christian and not, who have this image of God just waiting for them to mess up so He can punish. The whole ordeal that Christ, God in the flesh, endured was to spare His children of the punishment that we deserve. He wants to love, gift, help, forgive, hold, guide, share, anoint and spend eternity with his beloved children.
We just don't let Him.

We'll know about Judas when we get there I guess, but even though he was given over to Satan, his actions seem to suggest that he couldn't live with himself because of what he did. His remorse was acute. The old Judas would have kept the money. And Jesus died for our sins, of which Judas is a qualifier, so it's hard to tell. I hope he is there and forgiven just like the rest of us.

One thing I do know, God would never ask Judas to kill himself. There is no mercy in it. I also know that God would indeed forgive Judas if Jesus asked Him to, and if Jesus asked His Father to forgive me then I don't know why He wouldn't do the same for Judas.

Peter and Jesus. Peter boasted of his love for Christ and within 24 hrs. denied publicly even knowing the man. Our love is weak. John though, speaks of Christ's love for John. And it never failed.

And Christ loved Peter. Three times Peter denied Christ and 3 times Christ asked Peter to feed His sheep. And when Peter received the Holy Spirit he went on to do amazing things in Christ's name.

If you want to know how secure you are in Christ and how much our Father loves you, read the 23rd psalm from the prospective of a little lamb, and then ask yourself if He has held anything back regarding your care.

There is nothing sweeter than a new born lamb. You can't help but want to hold it and keep it safe. Because sheep have 0 defense systems. No fangs, no claws, no stingers, no roar, no camouflage, and little memory. Their only defense is baaaa, and they are tasty.
Most are nearly blind. Can't swim. Will eat till they die. They walk right into danger and never see it. And they are so dumb they'll do it again tomorrow.

But a good shepherd will take care of their every need. If the water is still the lambs see the reflection of the grass on the water and will walk right in and drown. But their shepherd guides them safely by. They have green pastures, which means they are well fed. And their good shepherd makes them lie down and not gorge on a good thing. At night He builds a fire and warms olive oil and before he gathers them in the pen, he takes them one by one and lovingly runs his hands over their faces to find any thorns in their lips or abrasions, then dips his hands in the warm olive oil and rubs in on their heads to heal any wounds. He counts them as he puts them in the corral and if one is missing he will go find it. His rod and staff comfort the sheep because he fends off their enemies with the rod, and hooks them from the rocky ledge.

Then He picks the tired, scared, cold little lamb up, and with out one scolding, rests it on his shoulders and carries it home to safety. He would give his life to save that sheep. And when they get back to the fold, the shepherd sits in the gap, (the shoot that leads into the corral) and keeps the fire going and watches for predators. That is where David wrote songs to God while he cared for his father Jesse's sheep. And that is where Christ stands at this very moment, still protecting His Father's sheep.

^ And That is how our Father see his children. Precious and unarmed.

We are our Father's sheep. We are Christ's little lambs. And lambs know their shepherd's voice. He is our good shepherd.

And if you want to be saved, do what little lambs have the sense to do. Consent to being picked up. And rest on His shoulders. You'll never feel more loved.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Whose idea was it for you to be baptized? Is it something you wanted?

I told you this story before somewhere else but it was years ago. And we both are getting old, girly, lol.
Some preacher came to the door with his flock of women. Daddy was in the den, mom at work. When he saw it was the preacher, he left me with them because Daddy was very much christian and read the bible every night. He trusted me with them. They commenced to tell me how I needed to be saved, that I needed to be baptized (I didn't even know what that was cuz I didn't go to church. All I knew was I had God as my friend that I wrote notes to. Dad never asked me to go to church..he figured if I wanted to, I would say so. Even then, I was content to have my personal relationship with God in a different way. In climbing trees, listening to birds, laying in gras and staring at clouds sometimes crying because they were so beautiful, etc etc). No, I did not ask to be baptized. No, I didn't want it. Didn't think I needed it. Why be dunked in water to be closer to someone I already felt close to? But they scared the shit out of me. What if God was angry because I was not dunked? What if He would punish me? Would He still be my friend? So I agreed.

Dad wanted Mom to close the business so he could be baptized in the river jordan. For reals. But she always said she didn't want to travel there or close the store. So he never got to go.

Years later....my sister attended a church and it was a small town. The preacher told her Dad was in hell because he owned a bar and served alcohol. She got up and left because he said it in front of the congregation and all the lemmings nodded their head as he preached about how Dad was burning. She never went back. However, she does attend a church now, somewhere. I never asked where. She and I are not that close.

No, I will not be baptized again. I see no need. But that is MY path. I don't like churches. My yard is my church.

Honey Gracie, you can baptize yourself in the shower. You don't need a church or an audience. My husband and I were baptized in the creek in front of the house. In December. We had to break through the ice. oh baby. I baptized the youth group kids in that creek. My loyal Newfi was always right there beside them. They baptized others there.
You need: you, a bath tub, pond, creek, or ocean, a grateful heart, and a desire to live for Christ. You have to believe that: 1. you are a sinner, and 2. that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, paid for your sins so that nothing could stand between you and your loving Dad. And you desire that gift of Grace, Christ offers you. And you thank Him.

And ask for a portion of God's Holy Spirit, another gift. As sweet as your heart already is, it will feel new and refreshed coming up out of that water. It will be a heart for the one that loved you first. Your brother, the Messiah.

Christ called our Father, Abba. It describes a closer relationship than Dad, and not nearly as formal as Father. He is All Mighty to some, but to those that draw near Him He is All Mighty and Daddy. We are so blessed.
Merry Christmas to you every day Gracie. You certainly are your Daddy's daughter.