How To Teach An Atheist About Jesus Christ?

[emilynghiem]

Romans 10 (ESV)

How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

Hi Max:
And remember that the secular gentiles are under natural laws also fulfilled in Christ Jesus.
So many of them who are nontheist will receive and understand the message in secular terms which they follow.

This is why I strongly suggest we discuss the meaning and process of
Restorative Justice to understand the spirit of Christ in secular terms.

How do we establish this good news of Justice coming for All humanity?

Don't we start with our own relationships and bring this spirit there first?

So let us agree to forgive anything negative that is separating us from
receiving God's truth, and work together to achieve this greater understanding
of the meaning of Jesus or Justice coming into our lives for the asking.

If we do not ask, we do not receive.

The first step is to forgive and let go any fear, negativity, unresolved
conflict we hold against our neighbor so God can fill us with wisdom
and understanding of how to correct these things that we see wrong.

We can share better when we let God's love and truth flow through us.

May I join with you in prayer that all wrongs all misunderstanding
fear and unforgiveness from the past be removed so that full
corrections in truth can be received in their place?

Thank you Max
Whenever two or three of us are gathered in agreement
in Christ Jesus, whatever we ask locally is done globally
by our Father in Heaven. So whatever we achieve here
is multiplied to build the Kingdom of God everywhere . Amen!

 

[emilynghiem]

Thanks Emily.

I don't want Atheist to go to Hell when Atheist dies. God saved Atheist from death once already. I am blessed that God answered my prayers that time, prayers that I didn't know to pray for.

hell is caused by unforgiveness.
You know as a believer in Christ that the power of divine forgiveness
is greater than any evil caused by unforgiveness. So you know that
heaven is greater than hell. I pray that we all receive healing grace
and heavenly peace by forgiving all things that are not of God and
are dividing and blocking the way to truth that sets us free from strife.
May all hell be vanquished as already done in Christ Jesus bringing
peace and justice with mercy to save all humanity from helling suffering.

In Jesus Christ is Justice Restored and all is saved and made new. Amen.

 

[PratchettFan]

Reverse that and consider whether it would work on you. You can't force yourself to believe something you don't.

I do everyday because I'm not convinced that there isn't a god. I'm also not convinced I'm right about everything.

You are forcing yourself to believe there isn't a god?

Let me take a different tack. If I were to get you to re-examine your position by asking you questions without making any claims, do you think I could get you to convert to Hinduism?

No, I'm not forcing myself to believe anything. I question my "beliefs" everyday.

No, but you would cause me to reexamine my "beliefs". That's a good thing, right?

Ok. Clarification is always helpful. I said you can't force yourself to believe something and you said you do it every day because you are not convinced there isn't a god. I connected those two things, which surprised me from reading posts from you in the past.

Re-examining beliefs is always a good thing. One of the reasons I like this place is that it makes me do just that. I just don't think it will cause someone to change beliefs, only to refine them. The people I have known who really did change beliefs did so as the result of significant changes in their life. Of course, making generalizations is always a dangerous course so I could be wrong.

Sorry, I had just woke up and communicating clearly was difficult.

I had a gf that was nominally Christian. When we talked religion and all that kinda stuff, to put it articulately, I questioned the reasons for her belief. She's now some mixture of buddhist/agnostic. I don't know if she's happier but she gives such topics more thought now. And you know what they say about unexamined lives...

Well, in my own defense, I did say I could be wrong.

 

[emilynghiem]

Well, in my own defense, I did say I could be wrong.

Since it cannot be proven or disproven either way,
doesn't it make more sense to live life in such a way
that whether or not it is or is not so, we do the best we can anyway.

Doesn't it make sense not to assume or depend either way?
So if this is the only life there is and nothing after it, we should make the most of it.
And if there is some higher good will shaping all our destiny to reach the maximum
possible, we should align ourselves with the highest good that can be obtained at all times.

Doesn't it come out the same, that we try our best to make the most of
life and our relationships and resources, so no matter what goes on, we have satisfaction in that.

 

[MaxGrit]

hell is caused by unforgiveness.
You know as a believer in Christ that the power of divine forgiveness
is greater than any evil caused by unforgiveness.

Hell was created by God as a place for punishment of sins as required by God's Holy Justice.

You are kind Emily. You should know that you were taught a lot of falsehoods by false prophets.

I pray that God grants you wisdom and understanding of the Word in the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 2 English Standard Version (ESV)

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.

 

[PratchettFan]

Well, in my own defense, I did say I could be wrong.

Since it cannot be proven or disproven either way,
doesn't it make more sense to live life in such a way
that whether or not it is or is not so, we do the best we can anyway.

Doesn't it make sense not to assume or depend either way?
So if this is the only life there is and nothing after it, we should make the most of it.
And if there is some higher good will shaping all our destiny to reach the maximum
possible, we should align ourselves with the highest good that can be obtained at all times.

Doesn't it come out the same, that we try our best to make the most of
life and our relationships and resources, so no matter what goes on, we have satisfaction in that.

The best we can do is all any of us can do. But what constitutes the highest good is usually a matter of perspective. It's just a funny old life.

 

[lizzie]

I want to find a good way to teach an Atheist the truth about Jesus Christ and God.

Atheist Characteristics:
- Easy Going
- Listens Well
- Very Stubborn
- Argues against Reality
- Believes in Life After Death
- Doesn't believe in a Creator God

I believe a soft "feelings" based method to teaching would work best? Or how about a hard core approach?

I wouldn't even attempt it. The vast majority of atheists I have known are intelligent and ethical folks already. They have examined the issue carefully, and looked for evidence, and nothing you can say will convince them otherwise. I don't worry about it in the least. We all believe what we believe for a reason, and the only way that we can be legitimately convinced otherwise, is through personal experience. I am satisfied to leave others be with whatever they believe.

 

[sealybobo]

I want to find a good way to teach an Atheist the truth about Jesus Christ and God.

Atheist Characteristics:
- Easy Going
- Listens Well
- Very Stubborn
- Argues against Reality
- Believes in Life After Death
- Doesn't believe in a Creator God

I believe a soft "feelings" based method to teaching would work best? Or how about a hard core approach?

I wouldn't even attempt it. The vast majority of atheists I have known are intelligent and ethical folks already. They have examined the issue carefully, and looked for evidence, and nothing you can say will convince them otherwise. I don't worry about it in the least. We all believe what we believe for a reason, and the only way that we can be legitimately convinced otherwise, is through personal experience. I am satisfied to leave others be with whatever they believe.

I agree. And if more theists were like you, us atheists wouldn't really have a beef. I notice Max would probably say Emily and I are going to hell because we don't believe his jesus story. Do you agree with Max? Then leave his religion if you claim to be a christian. Are you? Because his religion, Christianity, says only through Jesus can you go to heaven. Kind of hard to misinterpret that.

 

[lizzie]

I want to find a good way to teach an Atheist the truth about Jesus Christ and God.

Atheist Characteristics:
- Easy Going
- Listens Well
- Very Stubborn
- Argues against Reality
- Believes in Life After Death
- Doesn't believe in a Creator God

I believe a soft "feelings" based method to teaching would work best? Or how about a hard core approach?

I wouldn't even attempt it. The vast majority of atheists I have known are intelligent and ethical folks already. They have examined the issue carefully, and looked for evidence, and nothing you can say will convince them otherwise. I don't worry about it in the least. We all believe what we believe for a reason, and the only way that we can be legitimately convinced otherwise, is through personal experience. I am satisfied to leave others be with whatever they believe.

I agree. And if more theists were like you, us atheists wouldn't really have a beef. I notice Max would probably say Emily and I are going to hell because we don't believe his jesus story. Do you agree with Max? Then leave his religion if you claim to be a christian. Are you? Because his religion, Christianity, says only through Jesus can you go to heaven. Kind of hard to misinterpret that.

No, I don't agree, but I am not Christian. I dont practice any specific set of beliefs, and I don't believe that hell exists as a place, but is more likely a state of mind. Religion, to me, is a state of being, and not a dogma.

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Max Grit: Yes, I agree there is hell for those consequences.
What I am saying is there is a way to teach how to avoid that path,
which both theists and nontheists, Christians and secular humanists can agree
is the meaning and message of Christ Jesus. All people of all tribes and nations will receive this in unity in Christ
or by conscience in complete universal agreement.

I am NOT asking to change the message, just change how it is explained so people
can get the same message that you and I get out of the Bible. Like translating into different tongues for each tribe
united in Christ as one. There will be no more division but the Truth shall set us free from strife, suffering and hell
caused by that wrongful path of destruction that is otherwise broad. The narrow gate where we all agree in truth
is very very fine, and that is where only Christ only God's truth is universal enough to bring full agreement.

Anything else false or "made up by man" is NOT enough to bring full agreement, so people will stay divided.
Only God's supreme truth and will through Christ has that authority to compel people by conscience to recognize it.

Max you have really inspired me with your calling and commitment to reach out to Atheists.
I believe this effort will succeed, and it will take help of other nontheists, Buddhist or Atheists
who have come to an understanding of Jesus and the Bible which you and I will agree is true.

Again, not asking you to change what you already know, which is immutable.
I am asking that we change how we explain it.

Just like there are many different ways to explain the Trinity, using parables or other ways.
That doesn't change the nature of the Trinity, but allows people to understand how
something can be one not three, yet three distinct relations or manifestations, but be one.

The same with the rest of the Bible.

What "parables" can we use to explain the Kingdom of God to others,
as Jesus compared it with fishing, farming, seeds, all kinds of experiences so people
could grasp the "spirit" of the difference between the paths in life.

Max I am GLAD that you take a traditional stance, so that this ISN'T diluted in ways I have seen
other people lose the central meaning and message of Christ. It isn't just being good or nice.
There is a central connection by conscience that is unique and cannot be substituted by anything else.

So I totally trust that if it NOT the same Gospel message that you know to be true,
then you will reject that way of explaining it to prevent any confusion or compromise.

This is perfect! Thank you, Max.
That means only a Perfect explanation of the Bible that you know 100% means the same thing
will allow agreement with you and other Christians and Atheists.
If anyone in the group changes it or waters it down, you will recognize it isn't 100% right but trying to compromise it.

So you will make sure that doesn't happen. Same with other friends I have
who do not trust this process; the answers we agree on would have to be 100% Biblically consistent or they won't pass.

Max I believe we can form a team with other Christians and Atheists
and agree on parables and explanations of what it means for Jesus to
be man and God, fulfill and rejoin both the laws of man with the laws of God,
and save humanity from hellish suffering that happens if we do not unite in Christ or by conscience.

The spirit of the agreement must be 100% true in Christ for you to recognize it as God's truth.
So I am not worried, I understand following Jesus Christ authority is destined to fulfill this path.

I have found other people wanting to pursue the Kingdom of God in agreement.
So we can form prayer teams and keep on this goal that you have set forth,
which I commend and support.

I just love and thank the fact that you are sincere and will not compromise
so that the process of reaching agreement in Christ can be successful and not derailed.

All the false prophets will be corrected in the process.
And the truth as you and I both agree and understand will be established as promised in the Bible.

This is truly great, and the process is already happening.
The fact that you and I agree on it will attract others like you who only want the truth, and no compromises
or distortions by anything else. This is perfect, as God's will is perfect.

Thank you, Max
I will ask others to join this effort.

All doubts and fears will be removed in the process, and only
faith in God's universal truth will remain. All other things false or faulty,
causing error confusion or conflict, will be Eliminated in teh process of seeking absolute truth
that rings true for everyone. Every ear shall hear, every eye shall see, every tongue shall confess.

The greatest gift is that every tongue can be different, using different parables or explanations
or experiences in life to tell the same process, and it is still the salvation of humanity from hell.
Everyone will have a slightly different way of sharing it because it impacts our lives in different ways.
But all the stories will clearly follow the same spiritual pattern and path to reaching perfect Truth, Justice and Peace.

Thank you for your commitment to sticking to this true path
you are given, and I totally support all the help from heaven and earth
to fulfill this path you are on which means all others going through this will also be saved from suffering in hell.

God's Love, Thanks, Peace and more Power of Christ to you!
Yours truly,
Emily

hell is caused by unforgiveness.
You know as a believer in Christ that the power of divine forgiveness
is greater than any evil caused by unforgiveness.

Hell was created by God as a place for punishment of sins as required by God's Holy Justice.

You are kind Emily. You should know that you were taught a lot of falsehoods by false prophets.

I pray that God grants you wisdom and understanding of the Word in the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 2 English Standard Version (ESV)

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.

 

[emilynghiem]

I agree. And if more theists were like you, us atheists wouldn't really have a beef. I notice Max would probably say Emily and I are going to hell because we don't believe his jesus story. Do you agree with Max? Then leave his religion if you claim to be a christian. Are you? Because his religion, Christianity, says only through Jesus can you go to heaven. Kind of hard to misinterpret that.

Hi sealybobo : I do believe what the story of Jesus represents with salvation is spiritually real and happening.
I do believe it is good to share the Bible that way with other people who understand the language.
What I don't believe in, is judging nontheists if this same process isn't explained in secular terms so all people
can understand what it means. That is unfair. That is like only teaching the Bible in French, so when you share it with English or Spanish speakers and get blank looks, you judge them for rejecting the message. It has to be shared in a language that truly conveys it to them, even if you have to use their personal life experiences and terms they use for the spiritual life process
to see ALL people go through this process symbolized in the Bible.

So I do agree with the spiritual message and process represented by God, Jesus, etc. in the Bible.
Just looking for people willing to work out better ways of explaining it SPECIFICALLY Where we AGREE that is the same
and not convoluting it, compromising or changing it the way Max fears people have done in the past.

I am asking for an AGREEMENT between Christians and Atheists how to teach the Bible where it DOES mean the same thing, without conflict or compromise or fear that someone is not telling the truth or doing something else weird or wrong.

NOTE: the most honest response I ever got from a fundamental Christian, the type who does not trust even preachers or churches to be teaching the Bible correctly, was that he wasn't afraid for my salvation, which he believed I did have.
He was afraid that other people would ABUSE the way I explain it and not really get the full message or spirit, but skirt and miss it by taking shortcuts. I think that is fair.

This method I propose for explaining the Bible in secular terms isn't guaranteed that people won't abuse it.
People can take the Cliff Notes version of Shakespeare, and pass a test quoting all the right answers back on tests,
and still miss the spirit of the story completely. Just getting the physical knowledge down is not the same as
fully processing it and embracing and living it.

But I think it will open the door for the right dialogues in the right spirit to take place
so people CAN arrive at common truths that are consistent with what Christianity is trying to teach using the Bible.

If it really IS universal truth, by definition all people will follow it, like the laws of gravity that affect all people on the planet.
So it is easy to test if we have arrived at a universal understanding.
Either all people agree, or they don't if there is something relative/local that only some people follow not others.

Only the absolute truth would past muster with both Atheists and Christians who don't trust the other person or group.
It would have to be 100% recognizable as irrefutable to pass both panels of judges to reach agreement!

This is great, and I hope everyone here participates in reaching a consensus on this subject.
Of how to teach God, Jesus and the Bible where we all agree the meaning applies to all people universally. Wow
Finally!

 

[the_human_being]

I want to find a good way to teach an Atheist the truth about Jesus Christ and God.

Atheist Characteristics:
- Easy Going
- Listens Well
- Very Stubborn
- Argues against Reality
- Believes in Life After Death
- Doesn't believe in a Creator God

I believe a soft "feelings" based method to teaching would work best? Or how about a hard core approach?

What makes you think we don't know about Jesus? We also have access to the same information you have. If we wanted to go that route, don't you think we would have?

I'm ready Elizabeth. Elizabeth Honey, I'm coming home. Wonder of wonders, I hate to accept it myself but I am forced (dragged fighting and clawing) to aagree with Carla here. Of course I add the caveat that we are speaking of adults here.

 

[hjmick]

I want to find a good way to teach an Atheist the truth about Jesus Christ and God.

Atheist Characteristics:
- Easy Going
- Listens Well
- Very Stubborn
- Argues against Reality
- Believes in Life After Death
- Doesn't believe in a Creator God

I believe a soft "feelings" based method to teaching would work best? Or how about a hard core approach?

Why not just respect his or her beliefs? Why stick your nose where it doesn't belong?

 

[MaxGrit]

Hi Max Grit: Yes, I agree there is hell for those consequences.
What I am saying is there is a way to teach how to avoid that path,
which both theists and nontheists, Christians and secular humanists can agree
is the meaning and message of Christ Jesus. All people of all tribes and nations will receive this in unity in Christ
or by conscience in complete universal agreement.

I am NOT asking to change the message, just change how it is explained so people
can get the same message that you and I get out of the Bible. Like translating into different tongues for each tribe
united in Christ as one. There will be no more division but the Truth shall set us free from strife, suffering and hell
caused by that wrongful path of destruction that is otherwise broad. The narrow gate where we all agree in truth
is very very fine, and that is where only Christ only God's truth is universal enough to bring full agreement.

Anything else false or "made up by man" is NOT enough to bring full agreement, so people will stay divided.
Only God's supreme truth and will through Christ has that authority to compel people by conscience to recognize it.

Max you have really inspired me with your calling and commitment to reach out to Atheists.
I believe this effort will succeed, and it will take help of other nontheists, Buddhist or Atheists
who have come to an understanding of Jesus and the Bible which you and I will agree is true.

Again, not asking you to change what you already know, which is immutable.
I am asking that we change how we explain it.

Just like there are many different ways to explain the Trinity, using parables or other ways.
That doesn't change the nature of the Trinity, but allows people to understand how
something can be one not three, yet three distinct relations or manifestations, but be one.

The same with the rest of the Bible.

What "parables" can we use to explain the Kingdom of God to others,
as Jesus compared it with fishing, farming, seeds, all kinds of experiences so people
could grasp the "spirit" of the difference between the paths in life.

Max I am GLAD that you take a traditional stance, so that this ISN'T diluted in ways I have seen
other people lose the central meaning and message of Christ. It isn't just being good or nice.
There is a central connection by conscience that is unique and cannot be substituted by anything else.

So I totally trust that if it NOT the same Gospel message that you know to be true,
then you will reject that way of explaining it to prevent any confusion or compromise.

This is perfect! Thank you, Max.
That means only a Perfect explanation of the Bible that you know 100% means the same thing
will allow agreement with you and other Christians and Atheists.
If anyone in the group changes it or waters it down, you will recognize it isn't 100% right but trying to compromise it.

So you will make sure that doesn't happen. Same with other friends I have
who do not trust this process; the answers we agree on would have to be 100% Biblically consistent or they won't pass.

Max I believe we can form a team with other Christians and Atheists
and agree on parables and explanations of what it means for Jesus to
be man and God, fulfill and rejoin both the laws of man with the laws of God,
and save humanity from hellish suffering that happens if we do not unite in Christ or by conscience.

The spirit of the agreement must be 100% true in Christ for you to recognize it as God's truth.
So I am not worried, I understand following Jesus Christ authority is destined to fulfill this path.

I have found other people wanting to pursue the Kingdom of God in agreement.
So we can form prayer teams and keep on this goal that you have set forth,
which I commend and support.

I just love and thank the fact that you are sincere and will not compromise
so that the process of reaching agreement in Christ can be successful and not derailed.

All the false prophets will be corrected in the process.
And the truth as you and I both agree and understand will be established as promised in the Bible.

This is truly great, and the process is already happening.
The fact that you and I agree on it will attract others like you who only want the truth, and no compromises
or distortions by anything else. This is perfect, as God's will is perfect.

Thank you, Max
I will ask others to join this effort.

All doubts and fears will be removed in the process, and only
faith in God's universal truth will remain. All other things false or faulty,
causing error confusion or conflict, will be Eliminated in teh process of seeking absolute truth
that rings true for everyone. Every ear shall hear, every eye shall see, every tongue shall confess.

The greatest gift is that every tongue can be different, using different parables or explanations
or experiences in life to tell the same process, and it is still the salvation of humanity from hell.
Everyone will have a slightly different way of sharing it because it impacts our lives in different ways.
But all the stories will clearly follow the same spiritual pattern and path to reaching perfect Truth, Justice and Peace.

Thank you for your commitment to sticking to this true path
you are given, and I totally support all the help from heaven and earth
to fulfill this path you are on which means all others going through this will also be saved from suffering in hell.

God's Love, Thanks, Peace and more Power of Christ to you!
Yours truly,
Emily

hell is caused by unforgiveness.
You know as a believer in Christ that the power of divine forgiveness
is greater than any evil caused by unforgiveness.

Hell was created by God as a place for punishment of sins as required by God's Holy Justice.

You are kind Emily. You should know that you were taught a lot of falsehoods by false prophets.

I pray that God grants you wisdom and understanding of the Word in the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 2 English Standard Version (ESV)

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.

The reason I won't compromise is because I can't agree with doctrines that contradicts the teachings of the Holy Spirit.

I know the truth with absolute certainty.

Why should I not tell others about the truth of Hell?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Hi Max Grit: Yes, I agree there is hell for those consequences.
What I am saying is there is a way to teach how to avoid that path,
which both theists and nontheists, Christians and secular humanists can agree
is the meaning and message of Christ Jesus. All people of all tribes and nations will receive this in unity in Christ
or by conscience in complete universal agreement.

I am NOT asking to change the message, just change how it is explained so people
can get the same message that you and I get out of the Bible. Like translating into different tongues for each tribe
united in Christ as one. There will be no more division but the Truth shall set us free from strife, suffering and hell
caused by that wrongful path of destruction that is otherwise broad. The narrow gate where we all agree in truth
is very very fine, and that is where only Christ only God's truth is universal enough to bring full agreement.

Anything else false or "made up by man" is NOT enough to bring full agreement, so people will stay divided.
Only God's supreme truth and will through Christ has that authority to compel people by conscience to recognize it.

Max you have really inspired me with your calling and commitment to reach out to Atheists.
I believe this effort will succeed, and it will take help of other nontheists, Buddhist or Atheists
who have come to an understanding of Jesus and the Bible which you and I will agree is true.

Again, not asking you to change what you already know, which is immutable.
I am asking that we change how we explain it.

Just like there are many different ways to explain the Trinity, using parables or other ways.
That doesn't change the nature of the Trinity, but allows people to understand how
something can be one not three, yet three distinct relations or manifestations, but be one.

The same with the rest of the Bible.

What "parables" can we use to explain the Kingdom of God to others,
as Jesus compared it with fishing, farming, seeds, all kinds of experiences so people
could grasp the "spirit" of the difference between the paths in life.

Max I am GLAD that you take a traditional stance, so that this ISN'T diluted in ways I have seen
other people lose the central meaning and message of Christ. It isn't just being good or nice.
There is a central connection by conscience that is unique and cannot be substituted by anything else.

So I totally trust that if it NOT the same Gospel message that you know to be true,
then you will reject that way of explaining it to prevent any confusion or compromise.

This is perfect! Thank you, Max.
That means only a Perfect explanation of the Bible that you know 100% means the same thing
will allow agreement with you and other Christians and Atheists.
If anyone in the group changes it or waters it down, you will recognize it isn't 100% right but trying to compromise it.

So you will make sure that doesn't happen. Same with other friends I have
who do not trust this process; the answers we agree on would have to be 100% Biblically consistent or they won't pass.

Max I believe we can form a team with other Christians and Atheists
and agree on parables and explanations of what it means for Jesus to
be man and God, fulfill and rejoin both the laws of man with the laws of God,
and save humanity from hellish suffering that happens if we do not unite in Christ or by conscience.

The spirit of the agreement must be 100% true in Christ for you to recognize it as God's truth.
So I am not worried, I understand following Jesus Christ authority is destined to fulfill this path.

I have found other people wanting to pursue the Kingdom of God in agreement.
So we can form prayer teams and keep on this goal that you have set forth,
which I commend and support.

I just love and thank the fact that you are sincere and will not compromise
so that the process of reaching agreement in Christ can be successful and not derailed.

All the false prophets will be corrected in the process.
And the truth as you and I both agree and understand will be established as promised in the Bible.

This is truly great, and the process is already happening.
The fact that you and I agree on it will attract others like you who only want the truth, and no compromises
or distortions by anything else. This is perfect, as God's will is perfect.

Thank you, Max
I will ask others to join this effort.

All doubts and fears will be removed in the process, and only
faith in God's universal truth will remain. All other things false or faulty,
causing error confusion or conflict, will be Eliminated in teh process of seeking absolute truth
that rings true for everyone. Every ear shall hear, every eye shall see, every tongue shall confess.

The greatest gift is that every tongue can be different, using different parables or explanations
or experiences in life to tell the same process, and it is still the salvation of humanity from hell.
Everyone will have a slightly different way of sharing it because it impacts our lives in different ways.
But all the stories will clearly follow the same spiritual pattern and path to reaching perfect Truth, Justice and Peace.

Thank you for your commitment to sticking to this true path
you are given, and I totally support all the help from heaven and earth
to fulfill this path you are on which means all others going through this will also be saved from suffering in hell.

God's Love, Thanks, Peace and more Power of Christ to you!
Yours truly,
Emily

hell is caused by unforgiveness.
You know as a believer in Christ that the power of divine forgiveness
is greater than any evil caused by unforgiveness.

Hell was created by God as a place for punishment of sins as required by God's Holy Justice.

You are kind Emily. You should know that you were taught a lot of falsehoods by false prophets.

I pray that God grants you wisdom and understanding of the Word in the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 2 English Standard Version (ESV)

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.

The reason I won't compromise is because I can't agree with doctrines that contradicts the teachings of the Holy Spirit.

I know the truth with absolute certainty.

Why should I not tell others about the truth of Hell?

You're not even a christian.

MYOB

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Max!
1.

The reason I won't compromise is because I can't agree with doctrines that contradicts the teachings of the Holy Spirit.

I know the truth with absolute certainty.

1. YES! This is why the proof of consensus on God is possible, without fear of compromising.
Because you can recognize when it is consistent with God's truth, and when it is off base.

So this is why you and I have no need to fear.
We can tell it is false. You will not agree, and other Christians will also say NIX
to any explanation that does not ring true with what you know to be absolute meaning and truth in the Bible.

No one is asking you to compromise this.
I am asking you to get involved BECAUSE you will not compromise this!
That's what makes the process work!

Max it's like math or science. We need the people on board who can TELL when the
math or science is OFF BASE and getting the wrong answers.

People like you who can tell right from wrong, true from false,
are absolutely NECESSARY to drive the process toward understanding universal truth
so it does not get derailed.

We are just taking what you already know and expanding the audience
like you said, to reach nontheists, Atheists, Buddhists, secular humanists, etc.

It is the same message and meaning in the Bible as you know it,
or it isn't true and cannot work. You and other Christians will not support
anything less than the truth, so you will make sure it stays on track in agreement in Christ.

2.

Why should I not tell others about the truth of Hell?

Again, not asking you "not" to tell the truth.
Just looking at how to explain the meaning and process of hell and also
salvation in more SPECIFIC terms. Just stating it as "being saved by Grace"
and believing in Jesus so you don't suffer hell is not as SPECIFIC as explaining
the path to hell or suffering is paved with unforgiveness and retribution/ill will
while the path to heavenly peace is paved with forgiveness, charity and justice with mercy,
agreement on truth in CHRIST or by CONSCIENCE that sets us free from strife and hell caused by these ills
if we don't forgive them but keep projecting and repeating them to keep humanity going to hell.

Why not EXPLAIN in specific steps or stages HOW the spiritual process actually works for Jesus or divine
justice as the will of God to descend into earth, embody in the heart of man,
and reach out to souls suffering on the path to hell to liberate everyone from sin and suffering repeating
from the past.

How does that process look, feel and work exactly?
Of Atonement, salvation, redemption, recovery, healing to get away
from the path of suffering and hell and get back on track with healthy, whole living and new life
in harmony and peace with good will?

Scientists are like St. Thomas who want to stick their hands into the wounds
of Jesus and UNDERSTAND with their own minds what was wounded and then examine it after it is healed.

They want to see the before/after steps and understand how did this process come to pass?

So let's look into spiritual healing and understand the scientific process
that EXPLAINS how it works. And that is the same process of healing
but spelled out in scientific terms that can be demonstrated medically.

MaxGrit this isn't about toning things down but amping things up!

Instead of just summarizing what's in the Bible,
it's about "spelling out" what the process means of going to heaven or hell,
so all people, even Atheists, can understand spiritually that all
individuals go through this and all humanity as our growth process to reach maturity and understanding.

I think you are afraid of compromise
the same way Atheists don't trust science to prove spiritual healing
because they fear Christians will bias the process and say it is real when it is not.

If we are going to trust science to prove it and not compromise science
(by letting Atheists examine the proof to make sure it is not skewed or screwed up)
let's do the same with the Biblical part, and let YOU and other Christians
(who DO NOT WANT any compromise or dilution) to come together
and police that part, examine it and MAKE SURE it is consistent with what the Bible means.

So if both sides, the Atheists and Christians, are policing the Science end
and the Bible teachings, there cannot be anyone getting away with skewing it falsely to try to force the proof.

It has to pass both teams.
The Science of proving spiritual healing and recovery based on forgiveness is universal
for all humanity will be policed by the nontheist/Atheist team, including Buddhists who have
been researching where past life karma comes from and how people are healed from their pasts.

And the Bible part of teaching the Gospel where it is consistent and UNCONTESTED
will be policed by the Christians like you who will not allow anything wrong, false or misleading
to throw anyone off course from agreement in truth in the spirit of God and Christ Jesus.

NOTE: The four parts I would propose for organizing teams to form a consensus on God, Jesus and the Bible:
A. aligning terms with the meanings of the Holy Trinity
So we can collect examples of all the ways people have explained the Trinity
and share with others who get it that way. If other people don't understand one explanation,
they may relate to another and it's the SAME concept. The poitn is to agree it all
describes the same source, even though expressed differently.
Also, all religions have their own trinity, so the point is to align those and
see the same spirit of Truth and Justice or God and Jesus fulfills all these laws,
and it's all the same Trinity. Human Nature is one, body mind and spirit,
and collectively we are joined together as one in spirit as the ideal: that's one way of explaining
how man is made in the image of God or how God's laws are reflected in the manmade images of God.

both are true at the same time. How can we align our terms and agree where this is talking about the
same sources of life, love, truth and wisdom in the universe that is naturally existent?

B. medical proof of spiritual healing to demonstrate it is a natural process consistent with science

C. conflict resolution and counseling to demonstrate that
forgiveness and unforgiveness
are the key factors in whether people can heal and restore health
of body mind and relations with each other and in greater society

Studies can be done to show that
THESE are the factors that determine if relations go to hell or find heavenly peace
and THIS is the meaning of either dying by retributive justice which is Antichrist
or living by restorative justice which is Jesus Christ.
collectively it means either forgiveness correction and restitution to bring justice and peace,
or it means rejection judgment punishment and division to continue retribution that sends people to hell.

ill will and unforgiveness
vs. good will charity and forgiveness for the sake of Justice or Jesus

D. applying spiritual peacemaking healing and conflict resolution
to political and economic and social problems to prove this works in the real world
to bring equal justice and peace to all relations, nations, and tribes.

So the greatest proof that nontheists may need to see
is that this divine healing by grace really does change the world.
And show proof of political and abusive relations that are turned
around and healed in this divine spirit of Restorative Justice that is Christ Jesus embodied
or incarnated in man's world. This is real and not some myth just for other people to beleive in.

It affects all humanity's future by healing the human spirit of past injustice and war.
So hell is in fact overcome and replaced by peace on earth on a heavenly scale.

And this is what the Bible represents.

Those 4 points are what I would have teams organize around to prove how this works in consensus.

Thanks Max
please keep this in prayer
that God may show you what else is to be done
to fulfill the teachings in a greater way than we might have imagined
God is greater than any fear we have of the opposite
So let's let God's will guide the way and all join in agreement.

Yours truly,
In Christ Jesus name it is done

Love, Emily

 

[MaxGrit]

Emily, I am impressed at how much you write in each post. You have a noble plan for world.

I don't fear what is to be for the Lord is with me always.
All I'm able to do and know is based completely on the will of God.

God is sovereign. Humans have the appearance of free will. God is God and he is in charge.

I am just a servant and brother of Jesus Christ.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"How To Teach An Atheist About Jesus Christ?"

Those free from faith already know about your Christ, and correctly understand that 'Jesus' didn't exist as perceived by Christians.


This is also another example of Christian arrogance and hubris, the disrespect most Christians exhibit toward other faiths and those free from faith, and is an example of the worst manifestations of Christianity.

 

[Abishai100]

Mischief: Ethics Scale

I've been thinking about this question for some time now, and I think I have a suggestion for you and for others who share this same curiosity.

An atheist can be likened to a nihilist, but atheists are offended if they are likened to anarchists, since they claim no explicit social philosophy related to their 'belief' in a God-less universe.

Nihilism is an absolute value philosophy, and atheism is not much different. However, there is an issue that could challenge an atheist's notions about divinity or divine intervention or other theistic concepts: mischief.

According to most religions and especially Christianity, mischief is the realm of human vice and the frailties of humanity's temptation to sin.

If there is no God, as an atheist claims, then why do people philosophically and/or psychologically hype the activity of mischief? That is to say, mischief is by definition a conceptualization of ethics challenge or self-control complexity.

Free will implies that a human being has the right to engage in mischief or obedience without strict considerations of punishment or consequence. Atheists would perhaps claim that free will and mischief are so connected that one could construct an argument about a universe that has no need for a governing God.

However, when a person commits an act of mischief, they implicitly ponder the social consequences of their deeds. Such consequence-contemplation implies a higher-order meditation on the structures of law, government, and ethics. There is no reason to assume that such meditations 'should' not lead to intimations of a supreme higher-order wise God who oversees man's meditations on the consequences of free will (i.e., mischief).

It seems that many atheists dislike a God-filled universe simply because they do not trust centralized governments or paternal authority. Anyway, it does not seem mandatory to equate God with an authoritarian governance dictator.





Street Justice - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[the_human_being]

Hi Max Grit: Yes, I agree there is hell for those consequences.
What I am saying is there is a way to teach how to avoid that path,
which both theists and nontheists, Christians and secular humanists can agree
is the meaning and message of Christ Jesus. All people of all tribes and nations will receive this in unity in Christ
or by conscience in complete universal agreement.

I am NOT asking to change the message, just change how it is explained so people
can get the same message that you and I get out of the Bible. Like translating into different tongues for each tribe
united in Christ as one. There will be no more division but the Truth shall set us free from strife, suffering and hell
caused by that wrongful path of destruction that is otherwise broad. The narrow gate where we all agree in truth
is very very fine, and that is where only Christ only God's truth is universal enough to bring full agreement.

Anything else false or "made up by man" is NOT enough to bring full agreement, so people will stay divided.
Only God's supreme truth and will through Christ has that authority to compel people by conscience to recognize it.

Max you have really inspired me with your calling and commitment to reach out to Atheists.
I believe this effort will succeed, and it will take help of other nontheists, Buddhist or Atheists
who have come to an understanding of Jesus and the Bible which you and I will agree is true.

Again, not asking you to change what you already know, which is immutable.
I am asking that we change how we explain it.

Just like there are many different ways to explain the Trinity, using parables or other ways.
That doesn't change the nature of the Trinity, but allows people to understand how
something can be one not three, yet three distinct relations or manifestations, but be one.

The same with the rest of the Bible.

What "parables" can we use to explain the Kingdom of God to others,
as Jesus compared it with fishing, farming, seeds, all kinds of experiences so people
could grasp the "spirit" of the difference between the paths in life.

Max I am GLAD that you take a traditional stance, so that this ISN'T diluted in ways I have seen
other people lose the central meaning and message of Christ. It isn't just being good or nice.
There is a central connection by conscience that is unique and cannot be substituted by anything else.

So I totally trust that if it NOT the same Gospel message that you know to be true,
then you will reject that way of explaining it to prevent any confusion or compromise.

This is perfect! Thank you, Max.
That means only a Perfect explanation of the Bible that you know 100% means the same thing
will allow agreement with you and other Christians and Atheists.
If anyone in the group changes it or waters it down, you will recognize it isn't 100% right but trying to compromise it.

So you will make sure that doesn't happen. Same with other friends I have
who do not trust this process; the answers we agree on would have to be 100% Biblically consistent or they won't pass.

Max I believe we can form a team with other Christians and Atheists
and agree on parables and explanations of what it means for Jesus to
be man and God, fulfill and rejoin both the laws of man with the laws of God,
and save humanity from hellish suffering that happens if we do not unite in Christ or by conscience.

The spirit of the agreement must be 100% true in Christ for you to recognize it as God's truth.
So I am not worried, I understand following Jesus Christ authority is destined to fulfill this path.

I have found other people wanting to pursue the Kingdom of God in agreement.
So we can form prayer teams and keep on this goal that you have set forth,
which I commend and support.

I just love and thank the fact that you are sincere and will not compromise
so that the process of reaching agreement in Christ can be successful and not derailed.

All the false prophets will be corrected in the process.
And the truth as you and I both agree and understand will be established as promised in the Bible.

This is truly great, and the process is already happening.
The fact that you and I agree on it will attract others like you who only want the truth, and no compromises
or distortions by anything else. This is perfect, as God's will is perfect.

Thank you, Max
I will ask others to join this effort.

All doubts and fears will be removed in the process, and only
faith in God's universal truth will remain. All other things false or faulty,
causing error confusion or conflict, will be Eliminated in teh process of seeking absolute truth
that rings true for everyone. Every ear shall hear, every eye shall see, every tongue shall confess.

The greatest gift is that every tongue can be different, using different parables or explanations
or experiences in life to tell the same process, and it is still the salvation of humanity from hell.
Everyone will have a slightly different way of sharing it because it impacts our lives in different ways.
But all the stories will clearly follow the same spiritual pattern and path to reaching perfect Truth, Justice and Peace.

Thank you for your commitment to sticking to this true path
you are given, and I totally support all the help from heaven and earth
to fulfill this path you are on which means all others going through this will also be saved from suffering in hell.

God's Love, Thanks, Peace and more Power of Christ to you!
Yours truly,
Emily

hell is caused by unforgiveness.
You know as a believer in Christ that the power of divine forgiveness
is greater than any evil caused by unforgiveness.

Hell was created by God as a place for punishment of sins as required by God's Holy Justice.

You are kind Emily. You should know that you were taught a lot of falsehoods by false prophets.

I pray that God grants you wisdom and understanding of the Word in the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 2 English Standard Version (ESV)

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; and if he rescued righteous Lot, greatly distressed by the sensual conduct of the wicked (for as that righteous man lived among them day after day, he was tormenting his righteous soul over their lawless deeds that he saw and heard); then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge in the lust of defiling passion and despise authority.

The reason I won't compromise is because I can't agree with doctrines that contradicts the teachings of the Holy Spirit.

I know the truth with absolute certainty.

Why should I not tell others about the truth of Hell?

Because you are teaching one of the most hellish of all the false doctrines and should be ashamed of yourself.