How to win the drug war and stop the violence.

[fncceo]

illegal will always be cheaper,,

Three years after prohibition, legal alcohol had put illegal liquor out of business except for very isolated moonshiners. Legalization will allow for domestic production (there are nearly 500,000 people working in the alcoholic beverage industry in the US), quality control, and produce a product that consumers will prefer over the illegal.

 

[progressive hunter]

Three years after prohibition, legal alcohol had put illegal liquor out of business except for very isolated moonshiners. Legalization will allow for domestic production (there are nearly 500,000 people working in the alcoholic beverage industry in the US), quality control, and produce a product that consumers will prefer over the illegal.

based on what I've seen theres a long way to go til that happens,,

thers a big dif between a huge production facility to produce alcohol and putting a seed in the ground and adding a little fertilizer,,

 

[Moonglow]

illegal will always be cheaper,,

Cheaper streets drugs are not always better.

 

[fncceo]

based on what I've seen theres a long way to go til that happens,,

thers a big dif between a huge production facility to produce alcohol and putting a seed in the ground and adding a little fertilizer,,

It seems to work with corn ... though, I can only imagine the kind of exotic crop circles you would get in a weed field.

 

[initforme]

Why do we need a drug war? What happened to personal responsibility? If nobody buys them they will go away. Truth is americans are stressed so they need help.

 

[progressive hunter]

Cheaper streets drugs are not always better.

depends on what you mean by street drugs,,
if you can get it from the producer or someone connected to them and are allowed to refuse purchase the quality is on you not others,,

 

[progressive hunter]

It seems to work with corn ... though, I can only imagine the kind of exotic crop circles you would get in a weed field.

View attachment 608331

not a good comparison,,

 

[fncceo]

not a good comparison,,

Six million bushels a year, a third of all corn production goes into liquor production in the US. I think it's quite an apt comparison.

 

[progressive hunter]

Six million bushels a year, a third of all corn production goes into liquor production in the US. I think it's quite an apt comparison.

corn is a commodity that has wide uses where as recreational drugs are a small select market,,

 

[fncceo]

corn is a commodity that has wide uses where as recreational drugs are a small select market,,

It still doesn't mean that commercial production will have to be small-scale. Economy of scale dictates that a legal weed industry be much more centralized that current illicit production (just as with alcohol) and that the production be much more efficient and automated than current illicit production.

Unless government steps in and bollocks the whole concept, I imagine a legal weed industry comparable to the legal alcohol industry. With slick advertising, celebrity endorsements, promotional sponsorships and product innovation on a scale that illicit weed couldn't begin to match.

 

[progressive hunter]

It still doesn't mean that commercial production will have to be small-scale. Economy of scale dictates that a legal weed industry be much more centralized that current illicit production (just as with alcohol) and that the production be much more efficient and automated than current illicit production.

Unless government steps in and bollocks the whole concept, I imagine a legal weed industry comparable to the legal alcohol industry. With slick advertising, celebrity endorsements, promotional sponsorships and product innovation on a scale that illicit weed couldn't begin to match.

one thing to note is it wouldnt be so much illegal as un regulated/untaxed,,
and based on the prices I've seen for regulated I can produce it at less than half the cost with the same quality in my basement,,

 

[fncceo]

one thing to note is it wouldnt be so much illegal as un regulated/untaxed,,
and based on the prices I've seen for regulated I can produce it at less than half the cost with the same quality in my basement,,

I've always been fond of gardening. I grow my own heirloom tomatoes, corn, beans, peas, and potatoes ... as well as a salad and herb garden ... in my back yard.

Although I'm quite proud of my garden, I will be the first to admit that it's not a cost-effective as supermarket or even farmer's market produce. It represents a time suck, there is the vaguery of weather, pests, and disease that are endemic to cropping.

Just as there are people who will swear that home brew alcohol is superior to commercially produced, the fact remains that no home production can match the convenience, availability, and price competition of commercial alcohol.

A legal weed industry, properly run, will be stiff competition to a homegrown legal market. Commericial weed growers will have economy of scale, access to the best biologist and weed sommeliers, and technology. What currently illegal weed scientist wouldn't jump at a health plan and stock options versus the risk of being arrested every day?

Additionally, one of the first things the government did when the government decriminalized the sale of alcohol was to keep illegal the production and sale of non-commercial alcohol. This just makes sense if you're trying to dismantle the criminal inducements to weed trafficking and protects the tax revenue from the sale of legal weed.

 

[progressive hunter]

I've always been fond of gardening. I grow my own heirloom tomatoes, corn, beans, peas, and potatoes ... as well as a salad and herb garden ... in my back yard.

Although I'm quite proud of my garden, I will be the first to admit that it's not a cost-effective as supermarket or even farmer's market produce. It represents a time suck, there is the vaguery of weather, pests, and disease that are endemic to cropping.

Just as there are people who will swear that home brew alcohol is superior to commercially produced, the fact remains that no home production can match the convenience, availability, and price competition of commercial alcohol.

A legal weed industry, properly run, will be stiff competition to a homegrown legal market. Commericial weed growers will have economy of scale, access to the best biologist and weed sommeliers, and technology. What currently illegal weed scientist wouldn't jump at a health plan and stock options versus the risk of being arrested every day?

Additionally, one of the first things the government did when the government decriminalized the sale of alcohol was to keep illegal the production and sale of non-commercial alcohol. This just makes sense if you're trying to dismantle the criminal inducements to weed trafficking and protects the tax revenue from the sale of legal weed.

other than scale theres no advantage,, and since that wouldnt really matter to a person like me I will always be cheaper than the store front system,,

 

[fncceo]

other than scale theres no advantage,, and since that wouldnt really matter to a person like me I will always be cheaper than the store front system,,

I agree, that commercial weed might not find you a valuable customer. But, pot heads aren't exactly known to be people with a great deal of initiative. Just as with every product commercially produced from aubergine to airliners, the convenience of ready to use vs DIY represents a significant commercial advantage.

I think that, given time and lack of government douchebaggery, a commercial recreational drugs industry could be quite large, quite profitable, and quite safe (compared to having drug gangs shoot up neighborhoods over turf).

 

[progressive hunter]

I agree, that commercial weed might not find you a valuable customer. But, pot heads aren't exactly known to be people with a great deal of initiative. Just as with every product commercially produced from aubergine to airliners, the convenience of ready to use vs DIY represents a significant commercial advantage.

I think that, given time and lack of government douchebaggery, a commercial recreational drugs industry could be quite large, quite profitable, and quite safe (compared to having drug gangs shoot up neighborhoods over turf).

we are talking about price not convenience..

 

[fncceo]

we are talking about price not convenience..

I was talking about the creation of a large, commercial recreational drug industry. As with almost any commercially available product, the retail version will always to cheaper (in true costs) of a DIY equivalent.

 

[progressive hunter]

I was talking about the creation of a large, commercial recreational drug industry. As with almost any commercially available product, the retail version will always to cheaper (in true costs) of a DIY equivalent.

and I was talking about how the black market will be cheaper than that,,

 

[fncceo]

and I was talking about how the black market will be cheaper than that,,

Where is the black market alcohol business now?

 

[Dadoalex]

When did they start doing this? I must have missed it.

1970
The War on Drugs
Based on Rockefellers drug war in New York.

Aside from failure the policy, as a whole, is what so many young people use and sell drugs today.
What? You say?

Yep. They exempted people under 18 from the draconian punishments and the drug dealers, not being particularly stupid, began recruiting kids as street dealers and mules.
Who do kids know? That's right, other kids. Kids began dealing to other kids and recruiting other kids as dealers.
When I was 16 pot was a college thing. The concept of a 14 year old heroine addict didn't exist and pills were for parents.

The solution is to legalize, regulate, tax.
Legalization does two things. first, it eliminates the risk premium built into street prices for illegal drugs. What would the street price for pot be if you could grow it in your back yard? Second, it eliminates the cost of law enforcement including police, courts, prison, and other costs for enforcement. Petty crimes would be reduced because, with the low prices, the need to commit crimes to feed the habit would lessen. Drug related street violence would decrease because there's nothing to fight over.
Regulation means control. Let 7-11, the drug store, wal mart sell the stuff and they will enforce the age and quantity restrictions as part of doing business. seriously, it is easier for a 14 yo kid to buy a gram of coke than it is for him to buy a beer.
AND
Tax means money to pay for helping addicts.

There's so much more
How about all those confiscations from people accused but never charged or arrested?
How about those no-knock warrants?
How about LE going through people's bank, utility, on line purchases et al trying to make drug cases, privacy important?

The list isn't endless but its pretty damned long and the meaning is clear.

The war on drugs has done far more damage to America and Americans than drugs ever could.

 

[SavannahMann]

Ok, you sweep through the streets and arrest everyone dealing drugs. Great. As your cops are busy processing the arrestees into custody, the dealers are back out on the street, different people.

And the case against many of those dealers falls apart. Because the dealers are not idiots. Contrary to popular opinion. You pay one guy, and then get the drugs from another as you sit in your car. You get one guy for getting money, and his lawyer explains that he had no idea why you handed him the money. You get the guy who passed you the drugs, and he says he had no idea what was in the package.

Oh some will be found guilty, and the population will be furious. Not because they approve of the drugs, but because they are getting Jury Summons’ as soon as they are off of one jury.

Then they find their taxes are going up. Way up. It cost money to build and maintain prisons. It costs money to house these people. It costs money to hire guards, medical staff, administrative staff, and they have medical concerns, which costs money too.

I rarely agree with him but FNNCO was correct. He said the only way to win, was to surrender.

Now, take that course. What happens? Ten minutes after drugs are legalized, the lawyers get involved. Lawsuits are filed by the hundreds on day one. The Cartels are now flush with Soldiers to protect their business, and what they need are lawyers, good ones, to defend their products in court.

Gasoline is used in the production of Cocaine. So every coke dealer is now being sued for selling a dangerous product. Juries award millions to the users, and the Cartels are facing bankruptcy over legal costs.

Oh, and let’s not forget Taxes. Instead of costing us billions in taxes, they’re paying billions in taxes on revenue. Want to see the Cartels cry? Having their books examined by the IRS would do it.

But no. We’re going to double down on the ineffective tactics that haven’t worked yet. Because, um. Getting tough on crime works. We know it does.

Another fool in this thread screams shut down the Southern Border. Most drugs come in that way he declares. Really?

A $31 million cocaine bust in Savannah sets a new record | CNN

U.S. Customs and Border Protection seized $31 million worth of cocaine last week in Savannah, Georgia -- the largest cocaine seizure ever at the port.

www.cnn.com

They found a mountain of Cocaine in a Container at the local port. But hey, perhaps that ship snuck across the border in Texas when nobody was looking.

The fool who says to shoot down aircraft and sink ships smuggling. Ok. Prove that they are smuggling. Because the first boat you sink that isn’t means you’re the one getting sued, and the ship officers who fired are the ones facing charges of Murder. That’s what happens when you shoot innocents.