How we know Hitler was right wing.

[SSDD]

I found one of the old posts I was looking for to bring forth (never use the quote function on this site to set aside a quote-- search ignores it)-- the quotations here will be rendered in blue with topical emphais added:

The German Nazi Führer Adolf Hitler had objected to the party's previous leader's decision to use the word "Socialist" in its name, as Hitler at the time preferred to use "Social Revolutionary". Upon taking over the leadership, Hitler kept the term but defined socialism as being based upon a commitment of an individual to a community. Hitler did not want the ideology's socialism to be conflated with Marxian socialism.

... Nazism, or National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus) in full, was the ideology of the Nazi Party in Germany and related movements outside Germany. It is a variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism. Nazism developed in Germany from the influence of the far-right racist Völkisch German nationalist movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary culture which fought against the communists in post-World War I Germany.

... The Nazis were strongly influenced by the post-World War I far-right in Germany, which held common beliefs such as anti-Marxism, anti-liberalism, and anti-Semitism, along with nationalism, contempt towards the Treaty of Versailles, and condemnation of the Weimar Republic for signing the armistice in November 1918 that later led to their signing of the Treaty of Versailles. A major inspiration for the Nazis were the far-right nationalist Freikorps, paramilitary organizations that engaged in political violence after World War I.

-- Nazism​

March 20, 1933 - Dachau Opens - Heinrich Himmler, SS leader and chief of the Munich police, announces the opening of the Dachau concentration camp. The camp is located about 10 miles northwest of Munich in southern Germany. Dachau is one of the first concentration camps the Nazis establish. The first prisoners arrive two days later. They are mainly Communists and Socialists and other political opponents of the Nazi party.

-- Timeline of Dachau
​

In the space of fourteen months in 1935-36, 2,197 persons from left-wing circles were arrested in Berlin alone. In 1936, 11,687 persons were arrested throughout Germany for illegal socialist activity. In 1936 the Gestapo seized 1,643,200 illicit leaflets distributed by the Communist and Social-Democratic Parties alone and, in 1937, 927,430.
--

-- History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945 (p. 16)​

​

Between 1933 and 1945, Nazi Germany established about 20,000 camps to imprison its many millions of victims. These camps were used for a range of purposes including forced-labor camps, transit camps which served as temporary way stations, and extermination camps built primarily or exclusively for mass murder. From its rise to power in 1933, the Nazi regime built a series of detention facilities to imprison and eliminate so-called "enemies of the state." Most prisoners in the early concentration camps were German Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats, Roma (Gypsies), Jehovah's Witnesses, homosexuals, and persons accused of "asocial" or socially deviant behavior.

-- Holocaust Encyclopedia​

Nazism is a right wing ideology. It is violently racist, anti-socialist, and it targets the political left for extermination. This is underscored by Albert Einstein's embrace of socialism throughout his life -- and in particular in his 1949 essay, Why Socialism? -- along with the fact that Einstein's name was included on a nazi death list with a bounty of $50,000 offered for his assassination. If nazism really is socialism, why would Einstein have identified himself as a socialist a scant four years after WWII?

-- http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/NazismSocialism.html​

Fine examples of revisionism. Either your authors never bothered to read hitler's own writings or disregarded them as they disproved their revisionism. Hitler identified himself as a socialist and described how his particular socialist vision would be brought to fruition.​

 

[SSDD]

SSDD -

I have read your posts and intended to respond to them, but your posting here is simply so incoherent and nonsensical that I don't see any value in trying to explain this further.

Posts like this -

Two wings of the same house. Both wings are socialist, one is more left one is more right and the rest of socialism fits somewhere in between. Conservativism isn't part of that house and all socialism is to the right of even the most right wing of socialism because the cornerstone of conservativism is the idea of the soveriegn individual

- are simply gibberish. It's a random collection of words placed in a sentence.

There is a lot of VERY good information on this thread, and it might be worth you reading through it and seeing what other posters have to say and trying to learn something from them. Most posters seem to have a reasonable grasp on the basics.

I didn't expect answers from you...not coherent ones anyway...And I didn't really expect facts to alter your position. It is clear that you and yours have lost this discussion. As to good information, your side hasn't presented it. Look back through the posts and look at the writing of the poor dupes who are on your side in this.

 

[SSDD]

That's because authoritarianism is not intrinsically linked with communism.

Really? Which great socialist leader didn't institute an authoritarian government?

 

[Agit8r]

It would be wiser to consult this:

Rothbard was right-wing? I'm sure he would be pissed off to see that.

Left and Right: The Prospects for Liberty - Murray N. Rothbard - Mises Daily

 

[Saigon]

Agitr -

Stalin may not have murdered everyone in the Ukraine, but he did his best it remains. The famine remains one of the most shockinf and callous acts of the 20th century.

SSDD -

I will respond to all coherent posts, but with the best will in the world, your flailing away here is as pointless as it is childish.

 

[Agit8r]

Agitr -

Stalin may not have murdered everyone in the Ukraine, but he did his best it remains. The famine remains one of the most shockinf and callous acts of the 20th century.

SSDD -

I will respond to all coherent posts, but with the best will in the world, your flailing away here is as pointless as it is childish.

I'm just noting that it was typical of the poor administration that has always gone with large-scale collectivist undertakings. The object of his plan wasn't ethnic cleansing.

 

[Saigon]

That's because authoritarianism is not intrinsically linked with communism.

Really? Which great socialist leader didn't institute an authoritarian government?

Olof Palme in Sweden, Gro Haarlem Brundtland in Norway or Nelson Mandela in South Africa spring to mind. I would also think Ortega might qualify, and perhaps Allende?

 

[Agit8r]

That's because authoritarianism is not intrinsically linked with communism.

Really? Which great socialist leader didn't institute an authoritarian government?

Olof Palme in Sweden, Gro Haarlem Brundtland in Norway or Nelson Mandela in South Africa spring to mind. I would also think Ortega might qualify, and perhaps Allende?

a few examples on this list as well

List of Prime Ministers of Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Saigon]

Agitr -

Stalin may not have murdered everyone in the Ukraine, but he did his best it remains. The famine remains one of the most shockinf and callous acts of the 20th century.

.

I'm just noting that it was typical of the poor administration that has always gone with large-scale collectivist undertakings. The object of his plan wasn't ethnic cleansing.

Well, I know manu Ukrainians think differently. I couldn't say if the famin was more the result of hapless mismanagement or malice, but I suspect both were involved!

 

[Agit8r]

Agitr -

Stalin may not have murdered everyone in the Ukraine, but he did his best it remains. The famine remains one of the most shockinf and callous acts of the 20th century.

.

I'm just noting that it was typical of the poor administration that has always gone with large-scale collectivist undertakings. The object of his plan wasn't ethnic cleansing.

Well, I know manu Ukrainians think differently. I couldn't say if the famin was more the result of hapless mismanagement or malice, but I suspect both were involved!

I could be wrong. Stalin was a lunatic. *shrugs*

 

[Intense]

Intense -

Not all tyrants and dictators share the same philosophy and ideology. Yes, Stalin, Mao and Hitler were tyrants and dictators, but no, Hitler was not a communist.

The funny thing is, I have never seen a left wing poster attempt to re-write history and claim Stalin was right wing. And yet this week we have seen TWO right-wing posters attempt to re-write history and pretend Hitler was left wing.

Tyrants, are pretty much by nature, Totalitarian, Left, Right, is as insignificant as the label on the bullet aimed at one's head. The end result is the same. Hitler was a Socialist. It's a label. When absolute power and control is the end game, when people are looked at as nothing more than property, possessions, commodities, when the concept of Rights is sacrificed for the convenience of the State, the Collective, the Party, the Few, it's the same end. Maybe the clearer focus is Justice V.S. Injustice, as opposed to Left V.S. Right. What ever the brand, when power becomes extreme, there is a disconnect from knowing what is correct action, and being a minister of it. No construct is of more value than it's Prime Purpose. It's when we close our eyes to that, that the atrocities start, both Right and Left.

Hitler was no "socialist". The term was in the party's name before he came to power and he disapproved of it (the name as well as the ideology). He considered socialists to be enemies of the state and locked them up.

Saigon, I have seen several posters, here and elsewhere on the Net, try to float this revisionism. I'll repost some old stuff if I get the time. As I keep telling them, to conclude "Hitler's a leftist" based on the presence of the word "socialist" in the party's name is going to make it hard to explain the Democratic Republic of Congo, the DPRK, and of course the GDR. A name is a name, and a political name is propaganda. And propagana of course never lies

Historical revisionism is unfortunately a popular pastime of late. They seem to think if a lie is repeated often enough, some people will eventually believe it. Hard to see where they get that idea.

What would happen to Germany if the Nazis were to rule? That was a question that had a surprisingly easy answer. In the March issue of The Atlantic, Nicolas Fairweather wrote "Hitler and Hitlerism: A Man of Destiny." In it, he analyzed Hitler and his philosophy, as derived from a reading of Mein Kampf, "to foreshadow, from [Hitler's] own statements, some of the things he would like to accomplish." Journalists, at times, can be horrible predictors of the future. But in this case, Fairweather's assessment was a sound alarm. He summarizes Hitler in 10 points:

1. His violent racial nationalism, which springs from his conviction that the Aryan stocks in general, and the Germans in particular, are a chosen people in whose victorious survival the divine purposes are bound up.

2. His violent animosity to Marxian Socialism as in essence opposed to his ideal of a nationally minded people and a racial state. ...

3. His violent hatred of the Jews as the racial enemies of all Aryans, the subtle corrupters of pure Aryan states. These parasites, says Hitler, have made Marxian Socialism, which they invented, the principal tool by which they insinuate themselves into healthy, pure blooded, racial states in order to debase simultaneously the national ideals and the national blood. Destroyers of Aryan civilizations, they remain impotent to create a civilization of their own.

4. His concern for social betterment ('true Socialism') as a necessary prerequisite to the acceptance of his ideals by the masses.

5. His contempt for the intelligence of the ordinary man and for a democracy based on faith in his development to higher levels.

6. His contempt for parliamentary institutions as the organs of such a democracy, which substitutes for the decision of a competent leader the majority vote of the incompetent. A parliament, moreover, says Hitler, is the natural field of operations for the Jewish Socialist enemy.

7. His insistence on the power of personality and on the entire concentration of authority in the hands of one leader (up to now, himself).

8. His economic nationalism, with its distrust of international capital and its preference for small, locally controlled business organizations. Hitler fears the banks and all newfangled ideas for controlling credit. He objects to stock companies and stresses the value of personal ownership. In short, he believes in the ruthless subordination of economic interests and economic leaders to racial and national considerations.

9. His insistence that Germany must acquire more land in Europe as a vital requirement for national expansion and progress (after the present corruption of the national blood and the national ideals has been stopped).

10. His insistence that France is the archenemy. France, he urges, must be broken before Germany can undertake to conquer land from Russia (the only possible source).

10 Things You Should Know About Hitler: Predictions From 1932 - Brian Resnick - The Atlantic

Hitler had his own brand of Socialism. National Socialism.

 

[Bfgrn]

2nd Amendment -

Any model that has Lenin equal and opposite to Nixon is unlikely to be of much value here, particularly as it is so American in nature, when we are discussing leaders who Re not American.

The political horseshoe has been in use for generations - and with some reason.

Instead of left/right let's consider personality traits.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

Describe what tenets, traditions, documents and orthodoxy a conservative in Russia would adhere to and want to 'conserve'...free market capitalism? The US Constitution??

What Mao Zedong said about liberalism

Liberalism is extremely harmful in a revolutionary collective. It is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension.

It robs the revolutionary ranks of compact organization and strict discipline, prevents policies from being carried through and alienates the Party organizations from the masses which the Party leads.
Combat Liberalism

 

[Intense]

2nd Amendment -

Any model that has Lenin equal and opposite to Nixon is unlikely to be of much value here, particularly as it is so American in nature, when we are discussing leaders who Re not American.

The political horseshoe has been in use for generations - and with some reason.

Instead of left/right let's consider personality traits.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

Describe what tenets, traditions, documents and orthodoxy a conservative in Russia would adhere to and want to 'conserve'...free market capitalism? The US Constitution??

What Mao Zedong said about liberalism

Liberalism is extremely harmful in a revolutionary collective. It is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension.

It robs the revolutionary ranks of compact organization and strict discipline, prevents policies from being carried through and alienates the Party organizations from the masses which the Party leads.
Combat Liberalism

So Bloomberg's Nanny State is Conservative now? He is a Statist Progressive.

 

[Wiseacre]

The more extreme you get the bigger government gets, on both sides.

Not getting it Amy, those on the right are for smaller and less intrusive govt with less regulation, while those on the left are for the opposite. So how does a person on the right get to a totalitarian state if he/she wants less and less gov't intervention and regulation?

Because your premises in the first sentence are inoperative.

Really? I think my premises are spot on, and have been for the past 100 years or more. Can't believe anyone would dispute that the right is for less gov't intervention than the left is.

 

[editec]

I trust that ya'll can read?

Here's what those words mean.

Hopefully, Ya'll can figure it out from here.

FASCISM
A political doctrine opposed to democracy and demanding submission to political leadership and authority. A key principle of fascism is the belief that the whole society has a shared destiny and purpose which can only be achieved by iron discipline, obedience to leadership and an all-powerful state. Fascism first developed in Italy, under the leadership of Benito Mussolini (dictator of Italy from 1922 to 1943) and later influenced the development of German fascism in the Nazi movement led by Adolf Hitler (dictator of Germany from 1933-1945) . While fascism increases the power and role of the state in society and suppresses free trade unions and political opposition, it preserves private ownership and private property.

SOCIALISM
A political doctrine that upholds the principle of collectivity, rather than individualism, as the foundation for economic and social life. Socialists favour state and co-operative ownership of economic resources, equality of economic condition and democratic rule and management of economic and social institutions. See: SOCIAL DEMOCRACY / .

 

[jon_berzerk]

2nd Amendment -

Any model that has Lenin equal and opposite to Nixon is unlikely to be of much value here, particularly as it is so American in nature, when we are discussing leaders who Re not American.

The political horseshoe has been in use for generations - and with some reason.

Instead of left/right let's consider personality traits.

While not all conservatives are authoritarians; all highly authoritarian personalities are political conservatives.
Robert Altmeyer - The Authoritarians

Describe what tenets, traditions, documents and orthodoxy a conservative in Russia would adhere to and want to 'conserve'...free market capitalism? The US Constitution??

What Mao Zedong said about liberalism

Liberalism is extremely harmful in a revolutionary collective. It is a corrosive which eats away unity, undermines cohesion, causes apathy and creates dissension.

It robs the revolutionary ranks of compact organization and strict discipline, prevents policies from being carried through and alienates the Party organizations from the masses which the Party leads.
Combat Liberalism

So Bloomberg's Nanny State is Conservative now? He is a Statist Progressive.

in the leftist history books the short answer

would be yes

 

[editec]

If a history leans left or right up or down it is NOT a history, it is a political diatribe.

REAL history does not judge, it informs.

 

[Intense]

I trust that ya'll can read?

Here's what those words mean.

Hopefully, Ya'll can figure it out from here.

FASCISM
A political doctrine opposed to democracy and demanding submission to political leadership and authority. A key principle of fascism is the belief that the whole society has a shared destiny and purpose which can only be achieved by iron discipline, obedience to leadership and an all-powerful state. Fascism first developed in Italy, under the leadership of Benito Mussolini (dictator of Italy from 1922 to 1943) and later influenced the development of German fascism in the Nazi movement led by Adolf Hitler (dictator of Germany from 1933-1945) . While fascism increases the power and role of the state in society and suppresses free trade unions and political opposition, it preserves private ownership and private property.

SOCIALISM
A political doctrine that upholds the principle of collectivity, rather than individualism, as the foundation for economic and social life. Socialists favour state and co-operative ownership of economic resources, equality of economic condition and democratic rule and management of economic and social institutions. See: SOCIAL DEMOCRACY / .

Socalism: 2+2=5 for as long as the collective says so. All who enter here, leave your conscience at the door. Anyone criticizing the position or embarrassing, or exposing, anything bad about the collective will, will be demonized, know character assassination, and be thrown under the bus. You will submit to Statist Progressivism, or else.

Totalitarianism is attained through many paths. One thing that is always required is denial of Individual Rights, as a matter of convenience for the controlling authority.

 

[regent]

Yeah it was old Otto von Bismarck that introduced socialism to Germany back in the 1890's, and we know Otto was a liberal. And worse, some historians (all historians are communists) claim Otto gave Germany socialism to reduce the appeal of communism.
That single act of giving Germany medical care made all the other leaders that followed Otto, including Hitler, socialists.

 

[P@triot]

Prior coming to this board, I had never heard anyone suggest Hitler was anything but right wing. This may be something to do with living in Europe where the awareness of fascism is so very high because it occured here, or maybe it's something our education system focuses on. Or maybe coincidence.

Either way, recently I've noticed two posters recently insist Hitler was left wing....and even liberal.

Here is SSDD:

Hitler's government was called right wing by communists and socialists of the time, but his governemnt was still socialist. It consisted of a large and powerful central authority which is, by definition, not a conservative, or classically lberal government

Right wing and left wing are two wings of the same house and the house is socialism.

In cases like this, I am not sure facts have a great deal of impact, but maybe it is interesting to discuss some of the features of Fascism anyway.

Let's start with some quotes from Hitler:

"The main plank in the Nationalist Socialist program is to abolish the liberalistic concept of the individual and the Marxist concept of humanity and to substitute for them the folk community, rooted in the soil and bound together by the bond of its common blood."

"The German state is gravely attacked by Marxism."

"In the years 1913 and 1914, I… expressed the conviction that the question of the future of the German nation was the question of destroying Marxism."

"In the economic sphere Communism is analogous to democracy in the political sphere."

"The Marxists will march with democracy until they succeed in indirectly obtaining for their criminal aims the support of even the national intellectual world, destined by them for extinction."

"Marxism itself systematically plans to hand the world over to the Jews."

"The Jewish doctrine of Marxism rejects the aristocratic principle of Nature and replaces the eternal privilege of power and strength by the mass of numbers and their dead weight."

Myth: Hitler was a leftist

You're so dumb, you cite "the community" and then claim it's "right-wing". The right believes in the individual you fuck'n moron. The right believes in small government with limited powers (did Hitler have asp small government with limited powers?!?!?)

It's the left that believes in the "community" and government control.

You take stupidity to unforeseen levels...