How will eliminating the Estate Tax benefit the Middle class?

[Spare_change]

Just pointing out once more- with some amusement.

Not a single person who has posted their outrage at the idea of an estate tax here- has expressed any problem with the blatant racist remarks by Conboy.

Not all Trump voters are racists like Conboy- but Trump supporters don't object to the racism of Trump voters like Conboy

If we were discussing race relations, you might have had comments.

We weren't, so you didn't. Instead you heard comments regarding the subject of the thread - Estate Tax.

Quit trying to deflect.

Just an interesting observation. No surprise that not one of you objects to his racist remarks.

We do our very best to ignore your inane stupidity.

The least we can do is extend him the same courtesy.

Quit trying to change the subject ...

 

[Syriusly]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

It doesn't.

I oppose the estate tax but this is for the 1%.

Iirc, the cost of removing the estate tax would be $800 billion while removal of the state tax deduction would bring in $1 trillion. Don't be surprised if these two are swapped.

I know that both eliminating of the State income tax deduction and the Estate tax are on the table.

And neither would help the middle class.

Well, hell, if you KNOW it won't help the middle class, why are we even discussing it? Let's just point to you when anybody asks why!

Trump and the Republicans claimed that their tax package was to benefit the middle class.

I know eliminating the estate tax won't help the middle class but I was hoping- clearly in vain- for an adult to provide some evidence to support Trump's claim.

I can't say why you are still discussing it- 50 or 60 of your posts later. The facts haven't changed- still no evidence that eliminating the estate tax will benefit anyone- other than the wealthiest Americans.

 

[xotoxi]

It doesnt create jobs lol
I wonder how kids with not a lot of money pay for their families estate?

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

 

[Syriusly]

The Supreme Court disagreed- and America amended the Constitution so that Congress had the Constitutional authority to tax the income of Americans- and also the authority to tax the estate's of the richest Americans.

link? and not the Sixteenth Amendment.

Legal history of income tax in the United States - Wikipedia

Are you a de-facto employee of USA.INC? If so, then the income tax applies to you. BTW, do you know what a CAFR is or how to read one? Composite government is sitting on trillions in wealth that they have been socking away. They are the largest shareholders in just about every Fortune 500 corporation and their subsidiaries. You are basically saying that you want to give this corporate monstrosity that has been sucking us dry since the Federal Reserve Act was passed to suck even more federal reserve debt notes from us while sticking us with their credit card bill.........real smart, leftard.

LOL- at least I am not the contard arguing that a tax on the wealthiest Americans is just too unfair.......

I knew that my reply would fly over your head like a fighter jet flying at Mach 1. You see? I know more than you, dipshit.

Dale- you know less than a flea in the dumb class in flea school.

But go ahead and argue that the estate tax is just too unfair to the wealthiest persons in America.

 

[Syriusly]

It doesnt create jobs lol
I wonder how kids with not a lot of money pay for their families estate?

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

 

[Syriusly]

Just pointing out once more- with some amusement.

Not a single person who has posted their outrage at the idea of an estate tax here- has expressed any problem with the blatant racist remarks by Conboy.

Not all Trump voters are racists like Conboy- but Trump supporters don't object to the racism of Trump voters like Conboy

If we were discussing race relations, you might have had comments.

We weren't, so you didn't. Instead you heard comments regarding the subject of the thread - Estate Tax.

Quit trying to deflect.

Just an interesting observation. No surprise that not one of you objects to his racist remarks.

We do our very best to ignore your inane stupidity.

The least we can do is extend him the same courtesy.

Quit trying to change the subject ...

No surprise you can't find it in yourself to condemn his racism.

 

[Spare_change]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

It doesn't.

I oppose the estate tax but this is for the 1%.

Iirc, the cost of removing the estate tax would be $800 billion while removal of the state tax deduction would bring in $1 trillion. Don't be surprised if these two are swapped.

I know that both eliminating of the State income tax deduction and the Estate tax are on the table.

And neither would help the middle class.

Well, hell, if you KNOW it won't help the middle class, why are we even discussing it? Let's just point to you when anybody asks why!

Trump and the Republicans claimed that their tax package was to benefit the middle class.

I know eliminating the estate tax won't help the middle class but I was hoping- clearly in vain- for an adult to provide some evidence to support Trump's claim.

I can't say why you are still discussing it- 50 or 60 of your posts later. The facts haven't changed- still no evidence that eliminating the estate tax will benefit anyone- other than the wealthiest Americans.

No, let's tell the truth -----

You have summarily rejected anything that did not align with your beliefs - excuse me, what you "know". You have demonstrated a very superficial understanding of US macroeconomics, but when that is pointed out to you, you simply ignored it.

You were shown analyses that showed how the estate tax benefits all - notice how you conveniently ignore the rest of the tax package to focus on one little area - but, again, you THINK you know better so you ignore it.

There is a significant difference between being open to learning something and being closed minded. You have conquered the latter, and shown absolutely no intent for the former.

 

[xotoxi]

It doesnt create jobs lol
I wonder how kids with not a lot of money pay for their families estate?

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What if your Mommy and Daddy owned a business with 10 franchises throughout the state...and they made a profit, but rolled most of the profit back into the business and only took home a couple thousand per year to live on.

Would the estate tax effect a corporation owned by the dead?

 

[xotoxi]

It doesnt create jobs lol
I wonder how kids with not a lot of money pay for their families estate?

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What happens if Mommy and Daddy own a farm that has been in the family for centuries. They grow some vegetables and sell them roadside in the summer, and live day to day on Daddy's military pension.

The farm is 250 acres and it is located 35 minutes from the center of a major city which is growing quickly.

The land if subdivided would be worth many millions of dollars, but they don't want to sell.

Would this land need to be liquidated?

 

[Spare_change]

It doesnt create jobs lol
I wonder how kids with not a lot of money pay for their families estate?

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What if your Mommy and Daddy owned a business with 10 franchises throughout the state...and they made a profit, but rolled most of the profit back into the business and only took home a couple thousand per year to live on.

Would the estate tax effect a corporation owned by the dead?

The short answer is YES ....

The value of the corporation (or their share of it) would be rolled into the taxable value of the estate. This is the primary reason that farms and businesses are lost to estate tax. There isn't enough external capitalization to pay off the tax bill, and the heirs are forced to sell the estate (or portions of it) in order to pay its taxes.

This creates the "double hit" effect --- not only is the estate lowered by the value of the taxes paid, the total value of the estate is lowered by a like amount because portions had to be liquidated in order to pay the taxes, and thus can't produce revenue.

 

[Spare_change]

It doesnt create jobs lol
I wonder how kids with not a lot of money pay for their families estate?

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What happens if Mommy and Daddy own a farm that has been in the family for centuries. They grow some vegetables and sell them roadside in the summer, and live day to day on Daddy's military pension.

The farm is 250 acres and it is located 35 minutes from the center of a major city which is growing quickly.

The land if subdivided would be worth many millions of dollars, but they don't want to sell.

Would this land need to be liquidated?

You won't get an answer --- or you'll get one that goes like this "The heirs end up with the remaining value of a multi-million dollar farm that had to be liquidated. Well, boo hoo ...."

Take your scenario a step further ---- the son works the farm with his dad. Suddenly, he is left with a smaller farm that produces less income.

Happens every day.

 

[xotoxi]

It doesnt create jobs lol
I wonder how kids with not a lot of money pay for their families estate?

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What if your Mommy and Daddy owned a business with 10 franchises throughout the state...and they made a profit, but rolled most of the profit back into the business and only took home a couple thousand per year to live on.

Would the estate tax effect a corporation owned by the dead?

The short answer is YES ....

The value of the corporation (or their share of it) would be rolled into the taxable value of the estate. This is the primary reason that farms and businesses are lost to estate tax. There isn't enough external capitalization to pay off the tax bill, and the heirs are forced to sell the estate (or portions of it) in order to pay its taxes.

This creates the "double hit" effect --- not only is the estate lowered by the value of the taxes paid, the total value of the estate is lowered by a like amount because portions had to be liquidated in order to pay the taxes, and thus can't produce revenue.

So this would be a case where the elimination of the estate tax would benefit the middle class...the stores would not have to be closed and the workers in each of the stores would not be laid off.

On the other hand, who determines how much a business is worth? If the entire business is sold for a measly sum, say $1,000, then the estate would be essentially worthless.

 

[Spare_change]

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What if your Mommy and Daddy owned a business with 10 franchises throughout the state...and they made a profit, but rolled most of the profit back into the business and only took home a couple thousand per year to live on.

Would the estate tax effect a corporation owned by the dead?

The short answer is YES ....

The value of the corporation (or their share of it) would be rolled into the taxable value of the estate. This is the primary reason that farms and businesses are lost to estate tax. There isn't enough external capitalization to pay off the tax bill, and the heirs are forced to sell the estate (or portions of it) in order to pay its taxes.

This creates the "double hit" effect --- not only is the estate lowered by the value of the taxes paid, the total value of the estate is lowered by a like amount because portions had to be liquidated in order to pay the taxes, and thus can't produce revenue.

So this would be a case where the elimination of the estate tax would benefit the middle class...the stores would not have to be closed and the workers in each of the stores would not be laid off.

On the other hand, who determines how much a business is worth? If the entire business is sold for a measly sum, say $1,000, then the estate would be essentially worthless.

You wish .... the government decides the value of the estate. Usually, the probate judge hires an impartial auditor to make the determination. (Just as an aside, the auditor usually gets paid based, not on hours, but on the value of the estate and the complexity of the audit --- now THAT is double jeopardy. It's in the auditor's interest to "pad" the books)

But, you're right ---- all the jobs lost because of the liquidated resources to pay the estate tax adversely affect both the owner AND the workers. Somebody gets unemployment ....

 

[xotoxi]

It doesnt create jobs lol
I wonder how kids with not a lot of money pay for their families estate?

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What happens if Mommy and Daddy own a farm that has been in the family for centuries. They grow some vegetables and sell them roadside in the summer, and live day to day on Daddy's military pension.

The farm is 250 acres and it is located 35 minutes from the center of a major city which is growing quickly.

The land if subdivided would be worth many millions of dollars, but they don't want to sell.

Would this land need to be liquidated?

You won't get an answer --- or you'll get one that goes like this "The heirs end up with the remaining value of a multi-million dollar farm that had to be liquidated. Well, boo hoo ...."

Take your scenario a step further ---- the son works the farm with his dad. Suddenly, he is left with a smaller farm that produces less income.

Happens every day.

What if they placed the entire farm in a land conservancy, so that it could never be developed? It would then make the land worth far less.

 

[Spare_change]

The estate pays the tax.

So lets say your mommy and daddy are worth $10 million dollars- and both die in a tragic automobile accident.

You inherit all $10 million dollars free and clear- because the joint exemption for your parents wealth is $10.98 million

Now if your parents are worth $20 million- their estate will have to pay estate taxes on approximately $9 million- and you will get the $11 million + plus the balance of the $9 million after taxes.

How will eliminating that tax create jobs or help the middle class- both which the Republicans and Trump have said this tax change is intended to do?

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What happens if Mommy and Daddy own a farm that has been in the family for centuries. They grow some vegetables and sell them roadside in the summer, and live day to day on Daddy's military pension.

The farm is 250 acres and it is located 35 minutes from the center of a major city which is growing quickly.

The land if subdivided would be worth many millions of dollars, but they don't want to sell.

Would this land need to be liquidated?

You won't get an answer --- or you'll get one that goes like this "The heirs end up with the remaining value of a multi-million dollar farm that had to be liquidated. Well, boo hoo ...."

Take your scenario a step further ---- the son works the farm with his dad. Suddenly, he is left with a smaller farm that produces less income.

Happens every day.

What if they placed the entire farm in a land conservancy, so that it could never be developed? It would then make the land worth far less.

Yep -- but it would still have a value, and the relative portion would still have to be liquidated. For example, if you say the 10,000 acres is only worth $20 M, when it is sold, it will be sold off at $2,00 per acre. If, on the other hand, you develop it, and the 10,000 acres is worth $200 M, when it is sold it will be sold off at $20,000 per acre. In the end, you lose the same number of acres.

Land conservancy only helps to avoid taxes while you're alive ....

 

[xotoxi]

The Estate pays the tax, but it would only be able to pay the tax if the Estate is liquidated.

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What happens if Mommy and Daddy own a farm that has been in the family for centuries. They grow some vegetables and sell them roadside in the summer, and live day to day on Daddy's military pension.

The farm is 250 acres and it is located 35 minutes from the center of a major city which is growing quickly.

The land if subdivided would be worth many millions of dollars, but they don't want to sell.

Would this land need to be liquidated?

You won't get an answer --- or you'll get one that goes like this "The heirs end up with the remaining value of a multi-million dollar farm that had to be liquidated. Well, boo hoo ...."

Take your scenario a step further ---- the son works the farm with his dad. Suddenly, he is left with a smaller farm that produces less income.

Happens every day.

What if they placed the entire farm in a land conservancy, so that it could never be developed? It would then make the land worth far less.

Yep -- but it would still have a value, and the relative portion would still have to be liquidated. For example, if you say the 10,000 acres is only worth $20 M, when it is sold, it will be sold off at $2,00 per acre. If, on the other hand, you develop it, and the 10,000 acres is worth $200 M, when it is sold it will be sold off at $20,000 per acre. In the end, you lose the same number of acres.

Land conservancy only helps to avoid taxes while you're alive ....

In my scenario, the conservancy would have been created prior to Mom and Pop dying. And it was 250 acres.

250 acres that is able to be developed is worth millions. 250 acres that is protected from development is worth thousands.

 

[Spare_change]

The Estate would have to pay out of the estate- if the Estate had enough cash the Estate could pay out of the Estate's cash. Or the Estate might have to liquidate enough to pay the taxes.

So your mommy and daddy have a $20 million dollar estate- and pass away- the estate owes taxes on $10 million dollars- and may have to liquidate some assets to pay for that- leaving your inheritance to be some $15 million dollars.

No- that does not make you part of the middle class.

What happens if Mommy and Daddy own a farm that has been in the family for centuries. They grow some vegetables and sell them roadside in the summer, and live day to day on Daddy's military pension.

The farm is 250 acres and it is located 35 minutes from the center of a major city which is growing quickly.

The land if subdivided would be worth many millions of dollars, but they don't want to sell.

Would this land need to be liquidated?

You won't get an answer --- or you'll get one that goes like this "The heirs end up with the remaining value of a multi-million dollar farm that had to be liquidated. Well, boo hoo ...."

Take your scenario a step further ---- the son works the farm with his dad. Suddenly, he is left with a smaller farm that produces less income.

Happens every day.

What if they placed the entire farm in a land conservancy, so that it could never be developed? It would then make the land worth far less.

Yep -- but it would still have a value, and the relative portion would still have to be liquidated. For example, if you say the 10,000 acres is only worth $20 M, when it is sold, it will be sold off at $2,00 per acre. If, on the other hand, you develop it, and the 10,000 acres is worth $200 M, when it is sold it will be sold off at $20,000 per acre. In the end, you lose the same number of acres.

Land conservancy only helps to avoid taxes while you're alive ....

In my scenario, the conservancy would have been created prior to Mom and Pop dying. And it was 250 acres.

250 acres that is able to be developed is worth millions. 250 acres that is protected from development is worth thousands.

...and will be disposed of as if it is worth thousands, not millions. You will probably be able to avoid estate tax - the value isn't high enough to qualify - but the concept still holds true.

But, let's take the scenario a step further ---- you inherit the conservancy at a value of thousands -- you develop it, and it becomes worth millions. When you pass, your heirs will pay estate tax on the difference between the 'thousands' and the 'millions'.

Biggest thing to remember --- ALL tax code is written to benefit the government. There is NO tax scenario designed for your benefit. Don't believe it --- take a look at IRA tax laws (you know, the ones where you get to defer your taxes until that time when you really need the money - and it is at its largest value and taxes have historically risen) The government gets more of your nest egg than they do if they taxed the earnings every year. THAT is the value of progressive taxation.

 

[xotoxi]

What happens if Mommy and Daddy own a farm that has been in the family for centuries. They grow some vegetables and sell them roadside in the summer, and live day to day on Daddy's military pension.

The farm is 250 acres and it is located 35 minutes from the center of a major city which is growing quickly.

The land if subdivided would be worth many millions of dollars, but they don't want to sell.

Would this land need to be liquidated?

You won't get an answer --- or you'll get one that goes like this "The heirs end up with the remaining value of a multi-million dollar farm that had to be liquidated. Well, boo hoo ...."

Take your scenario a step further ---- the son works the farm with his dad. Suddenly, he is left with a smaller farm that produces less income.

Happens every day.

What if they placed the entire farm in a land conservancy, so that it could never be developed? It would then make the land worth far less.

Yep -- but it would still have a value, and the relative portion would still have to be liquidated. For example, if you say the 10,000 acres is only worth $20 M, when it is sold, it will be sold off at $2,00 per acre. If, on the other hand, you develop it, and the 10,000 acres is worth $200 M, when it is sold it will be sold off at $20,000 per acre. In the end, you lose the same number of acres.

Land conservancy only helps to avoid taxes while you're alive ....

In my scenario, the conservancy would have been created prior to Mom and Pop dying. And it was 250 acres.

250 acres that is able to be developed is worth millions. 250 acres that is protected from development is worth thousands.

...and will be disposed of as if it is worth thousands, not millions. You will probably be able to avoid estate tax - the value isn't high enough to qualify - but the concept still holds true.

But, let's take the scenario a step further ---- you inherit the conservancy at a value of thousands -- you develop it, and it becomes worth millions. When you pass, your heirs will pay estate tax on the difference between the 'thousands' and the 'millions'.

Biggest thing to remember --- ALL tax code is written to benefit the government. There is NO tax scenario designed for your benefit. Don't believe it --- take a look at IRA tax laws (you know, the ones where you get to defer your taxes until that time when you really need the money - and it is at its largest value and taxes have historically risen) The government gets more of your nest egg than they do if they taxed the earnings every year. THAT is the value of progressive taxation.

It would probably be better to pay the taxes now on the IRA, since when you are retired and living on a smaller income, and living in a time when the cost of living is higher, it would be nice to not have to pay any taxes.

 

[Syriusly]

Trump’s Tax Plan Cuts Rates for Individuals and Corporations and Eliminates Many Deductions

“My plan is for working people and my plan is for jobs,” Mr. Trump said. “I don’t benefit. Very, very strongly I think there’s very little benefit for people of wealth.”

The Estate tax in 2017 only applies to estates of $5,490,000 or more. If Donald Trump died tomorrow Melania, as his spouse, would still not have to pay any estate taxes on Donald's supposed $10 billion dollars- because of the spousal exemption. If both of them died tomorrow- then yes- his kids would face estate taxes.

How does eliminating the estate tax benefit 'working people'? How does it generate jobs?

Provisions such as the alternative minimum tax and the estate tax, a tax on inherited wealth which Mr. Trump has derided over the years, would be gone under the Republican proposal.

How does it do anything but benefit the families of the wealthiest Americans?

Save me the arguments that the Estate tax is 'unfair'- Trump and the Republicans are claiming these tax cuts are all about generating jobs and benefiting the middle class- if you want to claim that the reason to eliminate the estate tax is because the tax is 'unfair'- then go ahead and admit that Trump and the Republicans are lying to Americans about what the tax cuts are for- and who they are supposed to benefit.

It doesn't.

I oppose the estate tax but this is for the 1%.

Iirc, the cost of removing the estate tax would be $800 billion while removal of the state tax deduction would bring in $1 trillion. Don't be surprised if these two are swapped.

I know that both eliminating of the State income tax deduction and the Estate tax are on the table.

And neither would help the middle class.

Well, hell, if you KNOW it won't help the middle class, why are we even discussing it? Let's just point to you when anybody asks why!

Trump and the Republicans claimed that their tax package was to benefit the middle class.

I know eliminating the estate tax won't help the middle class but I was hoping- clearly in vain- for an adult to provide some evidence to support Trump's claim.

I can't say why you are still discussing it- 50 or 60 of your posts later. The facts haven't changed- still no evidence that eliminating the estate tax will benefit anyone- other than the wealthiest Americans.

No, let's tell the truth -----

You have summarily rejected anything that did not align with your beliefs - excuse me, what you "know". You have demonstrated a very superficial understanding of US macroeconomics, but when that is pointed out to you, you simply ignored it.

Sorry- you expressing your opinion on 'how things' work is not pointing out anything to me other than your opinion.

Sure- I appreciate that you are one of I believe 2 posters who actually has addressed the actual OP- and at least you expressed your opinion as to why you believe that there will be a trickle down effect to the middle class from the elimination of the estate class.

I pointed out the flaws in your opinion- the assumptions you made that all benefits would trickle down to the middle class in the U.S. economy when in reality the benefits could trickle down- or could be invested in companies manufacturing products overseas that directly compete with the middle class in the United States.

Yes- there may be some trickle down effect that may eventually benefit the middle class. Of course if we completely eliminated the income tax for the top 1% the same could be claimed- that that would benefit the middle class- because of course the top 1% would all put that money into jobs for Americans.

 

[Spare_change]

You won't get an answer --- or you'll get one that goes like this "The heirs end up with the remaining value of a multi-million dollar farm that had to be liquidated. Well, boo hoo ...."

Take your scenario a step further ---- the son works the farm with his dad. Suddenly, he is left with a smaller farm that produces less income.

Happens every day.

What if they placed the entire farm in a land conservancy, so that it could never be developed? It would then make the land worth far less.

Yep -- but it would still have a value, and the relative portion would still have to be liquidated. For example, if you say the 10,000 acres is only worth $20 M, when it is sold, it will be sold off at $2,00 per acre. If, on the other hand, you develop it, and the 10,000 acres is worth $200 M, when it is sold it will be sold off at $20,000 per acre. In the end, you lose the same number of acres.

Land conservancy only helps to avoid taxes while you're alive ....

In my scenario, the conservancy would have been created prior to Mom and Pop dying. And it was 250 acres.

250 acres that is able to be developed is worth millions. 250 acres that is protected from development is worth thousands.

...and will be disposed of as if it is worth thousands, not millions. You will probably be able to avoid estate tax - the value isn't high enough to qualify - but the concept still holds true.

But, let's take the scenario a step further ---- you inherit the conservancy at a value of thousands -- you develop it, and it becomes worth millions. When you pass, your heirs will pay estate tax on the difference between the 'thousands' and the 'millions'.

Biggest thing to remember --- ALL tax code is written to benefit the government. There is NO tax scenario designed for your benefit. Don't believe it --- take a look at IRA tax laws (you know, the ones where you get to defer your taxes until that time when you really need the money - and it is at its largest value and taxes have historically risen) The government gets more of your nest egg than they do if they taxed the earnings every year. THAT is the value of progressive taxation.

It would probably be better to pay the taxes now on the IRA, since when you are retired and living on a smaller income, and living in a time when the cost of living is higher, it would be nice to not have to pay any taxes.

Bingo!!

If only more people realized that .... but everybody is looking for something for nothing.