CDZ How Will the Robotics Revolution Impact the Democratic Party?

[Fair&Balanced]

...as opposed to staying in the country and facing the disadvantages of doing so?
The reality now, as when the U.S. was formed, is that the U.S. is not a good place to be if one is unable or unwilling to be an active participant in capitalism,

And we need to change that, so that you dont have to be a capitalist to simply survive, raise a family and have enough for retirement.

Now we do, because we've conditioned our society to expect such things . Look , I support a UBI, but only out of neccesity. In ideal circumstances I would prefer an "eat what you kill" society though.

 

[320 Years of History]

move out of the country entirely and face the disadvantages of doing so.

...as opposed to staying in the country and facing the disadvantages of doing so?

The reality now, as when the U.S. was formed, is that the U.S. is not a good place to be if one is unable or unwilling to be an active participant in capitalism, i.e., a capitalist or an enabler of capitalism, and one instead would sooner rail against capitalism and fight to minimize the free exercise of capitalist ideals. Let's be real. The founders, every last one of them, was a capitalist and they created a nation that supports success for capitalists, capitalists enablers, and pretty much few if any other types of personalities.

And we need to change that, so that you dont have to be a capitalist to simply survive, raise a family and have enough for retirement.

Red:
Well, I can accept that you and others feel that way. I disagree. I don't think we need to do anything of the sort. I think that folks who don't want to be part of the capitalist system we have here should go be part of a system that more nearly represents what they want to be part of. I don't think we need to shift our system to more nearly resemble that of other places. If those places have what one prefers, that's fine. Go be a part of one of them.

That's part of why different systems and paradigms exist. I don't think one model is absolutely better or worse than the other. It all comes down to which one works best for any given individual. Not all creatures are well suited to all environments. One is being foolish by staying an environment for emotional rather than practical reasons.

 

[Wyatt earp]

There will be the usual top 1% winners who sell the robots to themselves, each other and the governments, and then the 99% rest of us who will be starving on the street if we dont do something to fix this now.

Technology can't be stopped so what do you propose?

1. A business tax on robots/job that the government loses revenue from, based on what that job would have paid.

2. A Universal Basic Income to replace all welfare at the state, federal and local level.

3. A tax break in business taxes that would be an additional 25% of costs of human labor from profits.

4. Assistance for people to obtain and learn how to use 3D printing, nano-manufacturing and setting up their own local block power supply, and assistanc e in poutting up solar panels.

1. A business tax on robots/job that the government loses revenue from, based on what that job would have paid.

Then why would a company invest in a robot when just hire two low labor workers?

Edit: this reminds me of the movie IRobot, so are you saying now that robots are life? They now can vote?

After all the courts ruled company's have a voice?

 

[320 Years of History]

There will be the usual top 1% winners who sell the robots to themselves, each other and the governments, and then the 99% rest of us who will be starving on the street if we dont do something to fix this now.

Technology can't be stopped so what do you propose?

1. A business tax on robots/job that the government loses revenue from, based on what that job would have paid.

2. A Universal Basic Income to replace all welfare at the state, federal and local level.

3. A tax break in business taxes that would be an additional 25% of costs of human labor from profits.

4. Assistance for people to obtain and learn how to use 3D printing, nano-manufacturing and setting up their own local block power supply, and assistanc e in poutting up solar panels.

1. A business tax on robots/job that the government loses revenue from, based on what that job would have paid.

Then why would a company invest in a robot when just hire two low labor workers?

Edit: this reminds me of the movie IRobot, so are you saying now that robots are life? They now can vote?

After all the courts ruled company's have a voice?

 

[Divine Wind]

Not this time. There will be the usual top 1% winners who sell the robots to themselves, each other and the governments, and then the 99% rest of us who will be starving on the street if we dont do something to fix this now.

Disagreed. I've heard this argument before; the rich replace all workers with automation, thus producing widgets without human labor creating massive unemployment. The question is, if no one has any money, who's buying the fucking widgets?

IMHO, we're more likely to see a "Star Trek" future; unlimited energy and resources. People can sit on their fat asses painting, playing guitar and do nothing with their lives or they can join "Star Fleet" or other organizations which promote based on merit.

 

[Wyatt earp]

There will be the usual top 1% winners who sell the robots to themselves, each other and the governments, and then the 99% rest of us who will be starving on the street if we dont do something to fix this now.

Technology can't be stopped so what do you propose?

1. A business tax on robots/job that the government loses revenue from, based on what that job would have paid.

2. A Universal Basic Income to replace all welfare at the state, federal and local level.

3. A tax break in business taxes that would be an additional 25% of costs of human labor from profits.

4. Assistance for people to obtain and learn how to use 3D printing, nano-manufacturing and setting up their own local block power supply, and assistanc e in poutting up solar panels.

1. A business tax on robots/job that the government loses revenue from, based on what that job would have paid.

Then why would a company invest in a robot when just hire two low labor workers?

Edit: this reminds me of the movie IRobot, so are you saying now that robots are life? They now can vote?

After all the courts ruled company's have a voice?

I still want to know this plan of yours, so the cotton gin say replaced 5 workers so are we now going to tax that as lost revenue to the government?

How come they don't tax self service gas stations as lost revenue to the government?

The assembly line?

Atms?

Your plan don't make sense.

 

[JimBowie1958]

move out of the country entirely and face the disadvantages of doing so.

...as opposed to staying in the country and facing the disadvantages of doing so?

The reality now, as when the U.S. was formed, is that the U.S. is not a good place to be if one is unable or unwilling to be an active participant in capitalism, i.e., a capitalist or an enabler of capitalism, and one instead would sooner rail against capitalism and fight to minimize the free exercise of capitalist ideals. Let's be real. The founders, every last one of them, was a capitalist and they created a nation that supports success for capitalists, capitalists enablers, and pretty much few if any other types of personalities.

And we need to change that, so that you dont have to be a capitalist to simply survive, raise a family and have enough for retirement.

Red:
Well, I can accept that you and others feel that way. I disagree. I don't think we need to do anything of the sort. I think that folks who don't want to be part of the capitalist system we have here should go be part of a system that more nearly represents what they want to be part of. I don't think we need to shift our system to more nearly resemble that of other places. If those places have what one prefers, that's fine. Go be a part of one of them.

That's part of why different systems and paradigms exist. I don't think one model is absolutely better or worse than the other. It all comes down to which one works best for any given individual. Not all creatures are well suited to all environments. One is being foolish by staying an environment for emotional rather than practical reasons.

You can disagree all you want, 320, but in a Democratic Republic, as jobs disappear, more and more VOTING CITIZENS will want to change it and agree with me and not you. That is simply reality.

 

[Votto]

Advanced AI robots are just around the proverbial corner. Not only can computers analyze and solve problems independently, but it is being miniaturized enough that such systems can be put on desk tops and smaller devices. Put these AI computers on mobile robots and you have a whole new source of labor. Some mobile robots would look like dogs of various types and be used to carry supplies and tools and do some repairs and labor where it is easily accessible, but there will also be androids that can mimic human mobility and accessibility as well.







The mobility of such androids would remove about 99% of the advantage human beings will have over robots, most of whom today are stationary on factory assembly lines. The predicted price tag for these robots will be around $1500

But also they are being taught/programmed to learn social cues as well, and so, though they still have the creepy factor now, that wont be a large impediment for most labor tasks and will disappear in the coming decade.



Now the Democratic Party has long had a rough systematic form in our political system. The urban ward bosses, who were Democrat usually, would provide jobs and succor for immigrants, they would provide the urban businesses with cheap immigrant labor, and also supply the Democratic Party with huge numbers of voters. This system worked all the way through the black riots that basically impoverished most of our urban areas in the 1960s, as blacks from rural areas were the newest immigrant population, relative to Northern cityscapes anyway.

But the detrimental flaw to this system for the Democrats was that as immigrants assimilated into the Middle Class, they tended to go Republican, and the Dems lost voters. The solution had always been to simply link in a new set of ethnic minority immigrants, but there were fewer and fewer new ethnicities coming in from Europe by the 1960s that couldnt go directly into their own ethnic communities and bypass the big city ward bosses.

So Ted Kennedy pushed changes to our immigration system through Congress and we started taking in more immigrants from outside of Europe. The laws were also changed to make Hispanics a non white ethnicity in the census and in various federal programs. The intent was to create a permanent subclass of workers that would permanently vote Democrat and never assimilate into the American Middle Class. The logic of this approach is reaching its tolerable extremes today as the Democratic Presidential nominee has endorsed a Marxist organization that not only wants racial segregation, reparations for slavery and "community ownership of property" they also see the white establishment patrician oligarchs of the Democratic party as their enemy, though they are cutting political deals with them. With each passing year, the Democrats have alienated white voters, especially white male voters, and now the technological-economic Tsunami is about to hit them.

Robotics makes all these cheap labor jobs obsolete for human labor. *POOF* goes the need for black market labor. *POOF* goes the entry level jobs. *POOF* goes the growing demographic wedge the Democrats have been counting on for their political future - the wild growth of a Hispanic economic underclass. Robotics makes all that a bad dream and changes the Middle Class need to hire cheap labor into a Middle Class need for cheap robots, which the local whiz kid will be able to build in his own garage using online instructions, open source code and 3D printed components.

So what will the Democratic party do as its permanently poor Hispanic underclass migrates back out of the country? What will they do as urban unemployment rates hit 60%+?

Job mongering policies are the only answer for the Democratic Party to recapture its role as chief patronage-spoils system distributor to the working class voter. And that cannot work with their current hostility to Middle Class white America still in place.

While I seriously doubt that the Democratic Party will go back to Jim Crow, I do think that they will continue the neglect of Jewish and black communities interests, not attacking them, just ignoring them, as they develop strong bonds with White Nationalists who will have to learn how to be polite 'haters' much like Jackie Robinson had to learn how to be a quiet polite angry man when he joined the Dodgers. And White Nationalists will be able to do this about the time they stop using provocative terms that pointlessly alienate the rest of America.

Or maybe not. Maybe the Democrats will be so desperate that they will take in rude White Nationalists. Maybe they will reject all open White Nationalists and develop an in-house collection of such politicians who sell their White Nationalism encoded so as to not provoke their old black and Jewish allies?

But the one thing that is abundantly clear if one looks at the unstoppable trends and their probable impacts; the Democrats will lose elections by the butt load if they cannot compete once again for the lower class White worker. Since such a failure will destroy the patronage system of distribution of government spoils if the Dems are not in power to do so, and that means the end of the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party will make this shift.

And as the Democratic Party's magnetic poles realign, will the Republicans take advantage of it? If the GOP continues its opposition to all forms of socialism or bust, then it will prolong the process of change politically in the Democratic Party, but also stoke the flames that heat the growing explosion of Middle Class resentment that will one day soon bring us a new third party that will sweep one or both of the traditional parties aside if this angry movement fails to recapture the Democratic Party.

My bet is the latter will be the most likely if Trump loses the 2016 election, and the new third party will be a Nordic Socialist third party that will embrace polite White Nationalism that looks to Bernie Sanders as its founding father. And that Socialist Party will dominate American politics for another 60 years like FDRs Democrats did from 1932 to 1994.

But as Democrats begin to see the sea changes taking place beneath them in the 2020 decade, will they adjust and revive, or remain controlled by the Corporate Crony Network and die off?

My bet is that they will adapt to these changes if Trump wins, out of necessity, and become calcified and extinct if Trump loses due to lack of said necessity.

But one way or the other, change is coming, friends.

Progressives no longer need slave labor?

God help us all.

 

[JimBowie1958]

1. A business tax on robots/job that the government loses revenue from, based on what that job would have paid.

Then why would a company invest in a robot when just hire two low labor workers?

Edit: this reminds me of the movie IRobot, so are you saying now that robots are life? They now can vote?

After all the courts ruled company's have a voice?

Do the math yourself, dude.

If a company can buy a robot for $1500 and all they have to do is pay the taxes on the human jobs it fills, say for two humans, then that is Two human costs of labor that they do NOT have to pay minus the taxes. They still make a killing with the robots.

And yes, this is moving rapidly toward something like you saw in iRobot, minus the paranoid red eyed robots, lol.

 

[320 Years of History]

I still want to know this plan of yours, so the cotton gin say replaced 5 workers so are we now going to tax that as lost revenue to the government?

How come they don't tax self service gas stations as lost revenue to the government?

The assembly line?

Atms?

Your plan don't make sense.

Red:
Such taxes already exist, although they are generally assessed at the state level.

• COMMERCIAL PERSONAL PROPERTY ASSESSMENT INFORMATION

Arkansas is just one state that levies commercial personal property tax. Indeed, in the early-middle part of my career, I spent about eight years implementing commercial personal property tax minimization strategies. For one of my clients, the savings realized are on the order of ~$25M - $30M per year. That's not "book"/accounting-only savings, that's cash retained because it's not paid to a state or local jurisdiction. The savings vary by industry, but make no mistake, for companies having a nexus in many states, it's a substantial savings, even to multibillion dollar net profit companies.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Advanced AI robots are just around the proverbial corner. Not only can computers analyze and solve problems independently, but it is being miniaturized enough that such systems can be put on desk tops and smaller devices. Put these AI computers on mobile robots and you have a whole new source of labor. Some mobile robots would look like dogs of various types and be used to carry supplies and tools and do some repairs and labor where it is easily accessible, but there will also be androids that can mimic human mobility and accessibility as well.







The mobility of such androids would remove about 99% of the advantage human beings will have over robots, most of whom today are stationary on factory assembly lines. The predicted price tag for these robots will be around $1500

But also they are being taught/programmed to learn social cues as well, and so, though they still have the creepy factor now, that wont be a large impediment for most labor tasks and will disappear in the coming decade.



Now the Democratic Party has long had a rough systematic form in our political system. The urban ward bosses, who were Democrat usually, would provide jobs and succor for immigrants, they would provide the urban businesses with cheap immigrant labor, and also supply the Democratic Party with huge numbers of voters. This system worked all the way through the black riots that basically impoverished most of our urban areas in the 1960s, as blacks from rural areas were the newest immigrant population, relative to Northern cityscapes anyway.

But the detrimental flaw to this system for the Democrats was that as immigrants assimilated into the Middle Class, they tended to go Republican, and the Dems lost voters. The solution had always been to simply link in a new set of ethnic minority immigrants, but there were fewer and fewer new ethnicities coming in from Europe by the 1960s that couldnt go directly into their own ethnic communities and bypass the big city ward bosses.

So Ted Kennedy pushed changes to our immigration system through Congress and we started taking in more immigrants from outside of Europe. The laws were also changed to make Hispanics a non white ethnicity in the census and in various federal programs. The intent was to create a permanent subclass of workers that would permanently vote Democrat and never assimilate into the American Middle Class. The logic of this approach is reaching its tolerable extremes today as the Democratic Presidential nominee has endorsed a Marxist organization that not only wants racial segregation, reparations for slavery and "community ownership of property" they also see the white establishment patrician oligarchs of the Democratic party as their enemy, though they are cutting political deals with them. With each passing year, the Democrats have alienated white voters, especially white male voters, and now the technological-economic Tsunami is about to hit them.

Robotics makes all these cheap labor jobs obsolete for human labor. *POOF* goes the need for black market labor. *POOF* goes the entry level jobs. *POOF* goes the growing demographic wedge the Democrats have been counting on for their political future - the wild growth of a Hispanic economic underclass. Robotics makes all that a bad dream and changes the Middle Class need to hire cheap labor into a Middle Class need for cheap robots, which the local whiz kid will be able to build in his own garage using online instructions, open source code and 3D printed components.

So what will the Democratic party do as its permanently poor Hispanic underclass migrates back out of the country? What will they do as urban unemployment rates hit 60%+?

Job mongering policies are the only answer for the Democratic Party to recapture its role as chief patronage-spoils system distributor to the working class voter. And that cannot work with their current hostility to Middle Class white America still in place.

While I seriously doubt that the Democratic Party will go back to Jim Crow, I do think that they will continue the neglect of Jewish and black communities interests, not attacking them, just ignoring them, as they develop strong bonds with White Nationalists who will have to learn how to be polite 'haters' much like Jackie Robinson had to learn how to be a quiet polite angry man when he joined the Dodgers. And White Nationalists will be able to do this about the time they stop using provocative terms that pointlessly alienate the rest of America.

Or maybe not. Maybe the Democrats will be so desperate that they will take in rude White Nationalists. Maybe they will reject all open White Nationalists and develop an in-house collection of such politicians who sell their White Nationalism encoded so as to not provoke their old black and Jewish allies?

But the one thing that is abundantly clear if one looks at the unstoppable trends and their probable impacts; the Democrats will lose elections by the butt load if they cannot compete once again for the lower class White worker. Since such a failure will destroy the patronage system of distribution of government spoils if the Dems are not in power to do so, and that means the end of the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party will make this shift.

And as the Democratic Party's magnetic poles realign, will the Republicans take advantage of it? If the GOP continues its opposition to all forms of socialism or bust, then it will prolong the process of change politically in the Democratic Party, but also stoke the flames that heat the growing explosion of Middle Class resentment that will one day soon bring us a new third party that will sweep one or both of the traditional parties aside if this angry movement fails to recapture the Democratic Party.

My bet is the latter will be the most likely if Trump loses the 2016 election, and the new third party will be a Nordic Socialist third party that will embrace polite White Nationalism that looks to Bernie Sanders as its founding father. And that Socialist Party will dominate American politics for another 60 years like FDRs Democrats did from 1932 to 1994.

But as Democrats begin to see the sea changes taking place beneath them in the 2020 decade, will they adjust and revive, or remain controlled by the Corporate Crony Network and die off?

My bet is that they will adapt to these changes if Trump wins, out of necessity, and become calcified and extinct if Trump loses due to lack of said necessity.

But one way or the other, change is coming, friends.

Progressives no longer need slave labor?

God help us all.

The question is what will the Democrats do as their Hispanic Growth strategy for the future blows up and they face a pissed off white working class that will long remember two decades of the Democrats insulting them and selling out their interests?

I think that they will make a hard pivot toward White Nationalism, but try to disguise it.

I think that there is a better way to handle it though, but it doesnt seem to even be on their radar yet.

 

[Wyatt earp]

1. A business tax on robots/job that the government loses revenue from, based on what that job would have paid.

Then why would a company invest in a robot when just hire two low labor workers?

Edit: this reminds me of the movie IRobot, so are you saying now that robots are life? They now can vote?

After all the courts ruled company's have a voice?

Do the math yourself, dude.

If a company can buy a robot for $1500 and all they have to do is pay the taxes on the human jobs it fills, say for two humans, then that is Two human costs of labor that they do NOT have to pay minus the taxes. They still make a killing with the robots.

And yes, this is moving rapidly toward something like you saw in iRobot, minus the paranoid red eyed robots, lol.

Then you would have to give them the power to vote.

 

[Divine Wind]

Do the math yourself, dude.

If a company can buy a robot for $1500 and all they have to do is pay the taxes on the human jobs it fills, say for two humans, then that is Two human costs of labor that they do NOT have to pay minus the taxes. They still make a killing with the robots.

And yes, this is moving rapidly toward something like you saw in iRobot, minus the paranoid red eyed robots, lol.

What will the robots do? Clean the houses of the rich? How will the rich make money? Not selling shit to people because no one will have any money.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Then you would have to give them the power to vote.

No, we wont.

How do you figure that?

The expression you seem to be struggling with is 'No taxation without representation' and that applies to human beings that are citizens, and no one outside that group.

Plenty of foreign workers here in the US do not have the right to vote, nor should they.

 

[320 Years of History]

move out of the country entirely and face the disadvantages of doing so.

...as opposed to staying in the country and facing the disadvantages of doing so?

The reality now, as when the U.S. was formed, is that the U.S. is not a good place to be if one is unable or unwilling to be an active participant in capitalism, i.e., a capitalist or an enabler of capitalism, and one instead would sooner rail against capitalism and fight to minimize the free exercise of capitalist ideals. Let's be real. The founders, every last one of them, was a capitalist and they created a nation that supports success for capitalists, capitalists enablers, and pretty much few if any other types of personalities.

And we need to change that, so that you dont have to be a capitalist to simply survive, raise a family and have enough for retirement.

Red:
Well, I can accept that you and others feel that way. I disagree. I don't think we need to do anything of the sort. I think that folks who don't want to be part of the capitalist system we have here should go be part of a system that more nearly represents what they want to be part of. I don't think we need to shift our system to more nearly resemble that of other places. If those places have what one prefers, that's fine. Go be a part of one of them.

That's part of why different systems and paradigms exist. I don't think one model is absolutely better or worse than the other. It all comes down to which one works best for any given individual. Not all creatures are well suited to all environments. One is being foolish by staying an environment for emotional rather than practical reasons.

You can disagree all you want, 320, but in a Democratic Republic, as jobs disappear, more and more VOTING CITIZENS will want to change it and agree with me and not you. That is simply reality.

That is also a reality. Recognizing that reality is part of why I support ideas like Bernie Sanders' "free college/trade school" (training) for all.

 

[JimBowie1958]

That is also a reality. Recognizing that reality is part of why I support ideas like Bernie Sanders' "free college/trade school" (training) for all.

Our nation is like the Titanic sailing past icebergs with more on the horizon and there seems to be no one at the helm with the binoculars.

 

[Divine Wind]

Nature has a way of balancing itself.


The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose. - James A. Baldwin

 

[Holos]

I agree that the information is here now..

No, the advanced AI is here now as well as the robotics.

Which continue to advance by progressing information.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I agree that the information is here now..

No, the advanced AI is here now as well as the robotics.

Which continue to advance by progressing information.

 

[alang1216]

Then you would have to give them the power to vote.

No, we wont.

How do you figure that?

The expression you seem to be struggling with is 'No taxation without representation' and that applies to human beings that are citizens, and no one outside that group.

Plenty of foreign workers here in the US do not have the right to vote, nor should they.

So what happens when they become self-aware and sentient and ask or demand their freedom? Will we be slave masters over our creations and treat them like animals or accept them as peers? I'd vote the later.