I agree generally with President Trump's immigration proposal

[Flash]

[QUOT

Oh yeah, Americans really want to pick fruit and lettuce. LOL

Maybe that should be a requirement to get food stamps, housing subsidies and Obamacare subsidies or any other welfare.

You'd see how fast they got off of those programs. Just like in Maine where they created requirements to get food stamps. Most of the people dropped out of the program.


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Just like a great number of people seem to be able to find jobs just when they run out of unemployment.

 

[Harry Dresden]

they have tried this out here in cal ray at least twice that i know of.....not a lot of applicants and the ones who took it did not last long,because they felt the money was not worth bending over all day in 100 degree weather.....
Wages rise on California farms. Americans still don't want the job
Wages Rise on California Farms, But Native-Born Americans Still Won’t Take the Jobs

Found some interesting points in your article:

Solorio moved on to two men huddled nearby, and returned quickly. “They were drug addicts,” he said. “And, they didn’t have a car.”

Before the day was through, Solorio would make the same pitch to dozens of men and women, approaching a taco truck, a restaurant and a homeless encampment.

Today, farmworkers in the state earn about $30,000 a year if they work full time — about half the overall average pay in California. Most work fewer hours.

Last year he could barely get together 45 laborers, and his grapes sold for only $350 per ton. Klein knew his vines were done for when California passed laws raising the minimum wage to $15 by 2023 and requiring overtime for field laborers.

So here is how it works in the good ole USA. If you don't want to work or work very little, you go on government programs to fill in the gaps. If a business like farming can't find workers, it's because the pay is not exceeding government benefits. If you do decide to be a little aggressive while on government programs, it's like working for free since the more you make, the more they take out of your taxpayer goodies.

So the solution is to let those Americans rot at home on food stamps, and bring in workers (legal and illegal) to do the jobs. What doesn't sound right about this situation? Next question: if we didn't have a cradle-to-grave federal government, and people got hungry enough, may lose their home, do you think this farmer in your article would still have problems finding American workers????

yea i still think they would Ray.....picking produce for what you get in return to do it aint worth it to many people, they would seek other types of work.....

And I'd be fine with that too. But the problem is they won't do farm work or look for better work because in both cases, it's easier and financially better to just live off of taxpayers.

Without our social program system, people would have to work just to survive. If farming didn't pay enough and those workers went to better industries, farming would have to increase pay to attract those workers.

Ten to fourteen bucks an hour may not be much if you live in California, but it's good enough wages to live in other states. Rich? Of course not. Middle-class? Depending on how many hours you wish to work. Creating desire to better oneself? Yes.

Farmers may be competing with other industries, but their main competition is with social programs. I don't think the solution is to bring in people that can't get on those programs and enabling producers to pay lower wages. Yes, when workers get sick of being in those fields, they move on to something else just like any lower paying job. But at the very least, we can provide the farming industry with American workers for a couple of years before those workers move on to better things in life.

Ten to fourteen bucks an hour may not be much if you live in California, but it's good enough wages to live in other states.
thats true Ray but those other States dont have the Agriculture that Cal has....the State produces a great percentage of the nations Fruits and Vegetables as well as livestock and Dairy products....

I think if they increase their wage offers, they would get more people. It's sad to say, but Americans have become lazy thanks to social programs. The younger people won't give up pot to find a job. They would rather live at home with mom or do lower paying jobs just enough to get by, and use some social program.

I was raised by wonderful parents. You were taught back then that it's work or starve, so you grew up working.

My father is a retired bricklayer. I started working with him as a kid around 10 or 12 years old. Back then he paid me a dollar an hour. I would mix cement, carry clamps of bricks to the job site, even carried 8" or 12" block. By the end of the day, you were exhausted. Your clothes and hair were loaded with sand and cement. While I never did any farm work in my life, I would be willing to bet that it's no comparison to being a laborer in construction.

doing some construction jobs might be tougher physically ray i agree,but bending over all day in 100+ degree heat is pretty back breaking too....

 

[Conservative65]

We don't need immigrants to work on farms. Farmers can adjust with more automation and a shift away from labor-intensive crops. If that's not good enough, we could buss panhandlers and negroes to farms for cheap day labor (they'd be happy to go if handout to them were sufficiently curtailed).

As a rule, we could say any job that on average pays at least double minimum-wage is a skilled job.

Congress needs to cut federal funds to sanctuary cities. Congress should look into ending and punishing all forms of accommodation of illegal aliens.

Oh yeah, Americans really want to pick fruit and lettuce. LOL

Pay 'em a Living Wage and cut them off welfare and - yeah - they'll flock to apply... if that means I pay more at the grocery store, then I'll pay more...

Problem with that is the rest of us will pay more. If you want to, fine. Don't make that decision for me.

When you say a living wage, does that mean paying them more than the skills to do the job are worth?

 

[Conservative65]

[QUOT

Oh yeah, Americans really want to pick fruit and lettuce. LOL

Maybe that should be a requirement to get food stamps, housing subsidies and Obamacare subsidies or any other welfare.

You'd see how fast they got off of those programs. Just like in Maine where they created requirements to get food stamps. Most of the people dropped out of the program.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

When the only two options are Do or Do Without, most choose to do. Those that make the wrong choice can do without.

 

[BulletProof]

2.Hotel and Farm labor will be covred just fine. Same with construction industry. Fact is those who emplo folks in these jobs will have to kick the cheap illegal labor addiction and pay up if they want good people or go out of business. It's the American way.

Immigrants come to America in large numbers because they're accommodated and subsidized. Why does our government do this? To push down wages of the lower working-class.

Our politicians are in tight through stock ownership, if not more, in big companies, and lower wages means more money for them.

 

[Sundance508]

2.Hotel and Farm labor will be covred just fine. Same with construction industry. Fact is those who emplo folks in these jobs will have to kick the cheap illegal labor addiction and pay up if they want good people or go out of business. It's the American way.

Immigrants come to America in large numbers because they're accommodated and subsidized. Why does our government do this? To push down wages of the lower working-class.

Our politicians are in tight through stock ownership, if not more, in big companies, and lower wages means more money for them.

The open borders disaster began with a desire for cheap farm labor...that has transcended to cheap labor period....every time I pass a construction site now....I see nothing but mexican laborers....thus the demand by those who want to restore the middle class to stop the influx of cheap labor into America.

American cannot be great again without restoring the traditional middle class...which can only be realized by instituting a sane immigration policy aka...close the southern border and stop favoring 3rd world immigrants. The radical immigration policy instituted by LBJ and the usual suspects in 1965 must be rejected.

Articles: On Immigration, Trump Is Not Racist – He's Right

 

[Kondor3]

We don't need immigrants to work on farms. Farmers can adjust with more automation and a shift away from labor-intensive crops. If that's not good enough, we could buss panhandlers and negroes to farms for cheap day labor (they'd be happy to go if handout to them were sufficiently curtailed).

As a rule, we could say any job that on average pays at least double minimum-wage is a skilled job.

Congress needs to cut federal funds to sanctuary cities. Congress should look into ending and punishing all forms of accommodation of illegal aliens.

Oh yeah, Americans really want to pick fruit and lettuce. LOL

Pay 'em a Living Wage and cut them off welfare and - yeah - they'll flock to apply... if that means I pay more at the grocery store, then I'll pay more...

Kondor3. If only it were that easy. Watch the 10-15 minute segment done by VICE of what happened when farmers no longer had access to migrant undocumented farm workers. Local people applied for the jobs and quit after less than half a day. They brought in a bus load of prisoners from a nearby prison but they were also unable to do the work.

Right now, there is produce rotting on the ground because there's no one to do the work.

Ray From Cleveland said field work is much easier than brick laying but both are back breakers.

Why is Trump wanting to bring in skilled and educated foreigners and against educating Americans for those skilled jobs?

Our hatred for those who don't speak English is doing us very real harm.


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What did they pay the locals?

Apparently, not enough to do the job.

That's a missing and important piece of information.

 

[Kondor3]

...Problem with that is the rest of us will pay more. If you want to, fine. Don't make that decision for me...

Shall we mark you down as in-favor of exploiting immigrants by offering them near slave-wages, then?

...When you say a living wage, does that mean paying them more than the skills to do the job are worth?

If (a) the job needs to be done and (b) you aren't paying the locals enough to recruit and retain 'em, then (c) the skills are worth more than you're making allowance for.

 

[BulletProof]

[QUOTE="Kondor3, post: 17861133, member: 20204]
Shall we mark you down as in-favor of exploiting immigrants by offering them near slave-wages, then?[/QUOTE]

Dirty Democrats want to exploit the Hispanic immigrants by having them do near slave labor in the hot sun. The ilk of Democrats have said for the entire history of the US that we have to bring in dark-skinned people for cheap field labor, and to clean our toilets off the books.

 

[Conservative65]

...Problem with that is the rest of us will pay more. If you want to, fine. Don't make that decision for me...

Shall we mark you down as in-favor of exploiting immigrants by offering them near slave-wages, then?

...When you say a living wage, does that mean paying them more than the skills to do the job are worth?

If (a) the job needs to be done and (b) you aren't paying the locals enough to recruit and retain 'em, then (c) the skills are worth more than you're making allowance for.

No, mark me down as one of those that believes if YOU want to pay more, feel free to do so.

If (a) the job needs to be done, (b) someone isn't willing to work for what the skills required to do the job are worth, then (c) find someone else willing to do it for that while not providing any social welfare to the one unwilling to work.

If the locals aren't willing to work a job where the pay is equal to the skills required to do it, let them starve.

 

[Kondor3]

...Problem with that is the rest of us will pay more. If you want to, fine. Don't make that decision for me...

Shall we mark you down as in-favor of exploiting immigrants by offering them near slave-wages, then?

...When you say a living wage, does that mean paying them more than the skills to do the job are worth?

If (a) the job needs to be done and (b) you aren't paying the locals enough to recruit and retain 'em, then (c) the skills are worth more than you're making allowance for.

No, mark me down as one of those that believes if YOU want to pay more, feel free to do so.

If (a) the job needs to be done, (b) someone isn't willing to work for what the skills required to do the job are worth, then (c) find someone else willing to do it for that while not providing any social welfare to the one unwilling to work.

If the locals aren't willing to work a job where the pay is equal to the skills required to do it, let them starve.

The cost of paying locals a living wage is cheaper than the combination of slave-wages for Illegal Aliens + fallout from Illegal Aliens + locals starving.

Next slide, please.

 

[Conservative65]

...Problem with that is the rest of us will pay more. If you want to, fine. Don't make that decision for me...

Shall we mark you down as in-favor of exploiting immigrants by offering them near slave-wages, then?

...When you say a living wage, does that mean paying them more than the skills to do the job are worth?

If (a) the job needs to be done and (b) you aren't paying the locals enough to recruit and retain 'em, then (c) the skills are worth more than you're making allowance for.

No, mark me down as one of those that believes if YOU want to pay more, feel free to do so.

If (a) the job needs to be done, (b) someone isn't willing to work for what the skills required to do the job are worth, then (c) find someone else willing to do it for that while not providing any social welfare to the one unwilling to work.

If the locals aren't willing to work a job where the pay is equal to the skills required to do it, let them starve.

The cost of paying locals a living wage is cheaper than the combination of slave-wages for Illegal Aliens + fallout from Illegal Aliens + locals starving.

Next slide, please.

I have an easy solution. Get rid of the illegals and let the locals unwilling to work for a wage equal to their skills starve. Solves any problems including fallout.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The open borders disaster began with a desire for cheap farm labor...that has transcended to cheap labor period....every time I pass a construction site now....I see nothing but mexican laborers....thus the demand by those who want to restore the middle class to stop the influx of cheap labor into America.

Nobody knows that more than a truck driver. Can't get Americans to do the work so they are shipping in people from other countries to do it.

 

[Kondor3]

...Problem with that is the rest of us will pay more. If you want to, fine. Don't make that decision for me...

Shall we mark you down as in-favor of exploiting immigrants by offering them near slave-wages, then?

...When you say a living wage, does that mean paying them more than the skills to do the job are worth?

If (a) the job needs to be done and (b) you aren't paying the locals enough to recruit and retain 'em, then (c) the skills are worth more than you're making allowance for.

No, mark me down as one of those that believes if YOU want to pay more, feel free to do so.

If (a) the job needs to be done, (b) someone isn't willing to work for what the skills required to do the job are worth, then (c) find someone else willing to do it for that while not providing any social welfare to the one unwilling to work.

If the locals aren't willing to work a job where the pay is equal to the skills required to do it, let them starve.

The cost of paying locals a living wage is cheaper than the combination of slave-wages for Illegal Aliens + fallout from Illegal Aliens + locals starving.

Next slide, please.

I have an easy solution. Get rid of the illegals and let the locals unwilling to work for a wage equal to their skills starve. Solves any problems including fallout.

Then the produce doesn't get picked.

Unacceptable.

In order to ensure that it is picked, while keeping Illegal Aliens out of the mix...

The only real-world practical answer is to pay the locals more...

Allowing the free and open labor marketplace to determine the level of wages...

If you've got a better solution that still gets the produce picked without using Illegal Aliens, by all means, lay it out in front of the audience.

Otherwise, sans Illegals, you'll pay more for your produce, whether you like it or not...

Courtesy of the free and open marketplace of labor, driving the narrative...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

...Problem with that is the rest of us will pay more. If you want to, fine. Don't make that decision for me...

Shall we mark you down as in-favor of exploiting immigrants by offering them near slave-wages, then?

...When you say a living wage, does that mean paying them more than the skills to do the job are worth?

If (a) the job needs to be done and (b) you aren't paying the locals enough to recruit and retain 'em, then (c) the skills are worth more than you're making allowance for.

No, mark me down as one of those that believes if YOU want to pay more, feel free to do so.

If (a) the job needs to be done, (b) someone isn't willing to work for what the skills required to do the job are worth, then (c) find someone else willing to do it for that while not providing any social welfare to the one unwilling to work.

If the locals aren't willing to work a job where the pay is equal to the skills required to do it, let them starve.

The cost of paying locals a living wage is cheaper than the combination of slave-wages for Illegal Aliens + fallout from Illegal Aliens + locals starving.

Next slide, please.

I have an easy solution. Get rid of the illegals and let the locals unwilling to work for a wage equal to their skills starve. Solves any problems including fallout.

Then the produce doesn't get picked.

Unacceptable.

In order to ensure that it is picked, while keeping Illegal Aliens out of the mix...

The only real-world practical answer is to pay the locals more...

Allowing the free and open labor marketplace to determine the level of wages...

If you've got a better solution that still gets the produce picked without using Illegal Aliens, by all means, lay it out in front of the audience.

Otherwise, sans Illegals, you'll pay more for your produce, whether you like it or not...

Courtesy of the free and open marketplace of labor, driving the narrative...

If they paid $22.00 an hour plus good benefits, they would get plenty of Americans to do the job. I don't mind paying more for produce if I know it's supporting American workers while at the same time, knowing I'm supporting the end of foreign labor dependency.

When discussing minimum wage, the libs have told me it won't raise the price of our hamburgers all that much. But God forbid we get rid of foreign labor causing a wage increase to get our grapes picked. Grapes would be unaffordable according to our liberal friends.

 

[Conservative65]

...Problem with that is the rest of us will pay more. If you want to, fine. Don't make that decision for me...

Shall we mark you down as in-favor of exploiting immigrants by offering them near slave-wages, then?

...When you say a living wage, does that mean paying them more than the skills to do the job are worth?

If (a) the job needs to be done and (b) you aren't paying the locals enough to recruit and retain 'em, then (c) the skills are worth more than you're making allowance for.

No, mark me down as one of those that believes if YOU want to pay more, feel free to do so.

If (a) the job needs to be done, (b) someone isn't willing to work for what the skills required to do the job are worth, then (c) find someone else willing to do it for that while not providing any social welfare to the one unwilling to work.

If the locals aren't willing to work a job where the pay is equal to the skills required to do it, let them starve.

The cost of paying locals a living wage is cheaper than the combination of slave-wages for Illegal Aliens + fallout from Illegal Aliens + locals starving.

Next slide, please.

I have an easy solution. Get rid of the illegals and let the locals unwilling to work for a wage equal to their skills starve. Solves any problems including fallout.

Then the produce doesn't get picked.

Unacceptable.

In order to ensure that it is picked, while keeping Illegal Aliens out of the mix...

The only real-world practical answer is to pay the locals more...

Allowing the free and open labor marketplace to determine the level of wages...

If you've got a better solution that still gets the produce picked without using Illegal Aliens, by all means, lay it out in front of the audience.

Otherwise, sans Illegals, you'll pay more for your produce, whether you like it or not...

Courtesy of the free and open marketplace of labor, driving the narrative...

The real answer is to get the illegals out, offer the jobs at the wage doing such a job is worth, and if the locals refuse to work, let them starve.

I did lay it out. You refuse to listen or are too fucking stupid to understand.

 

[Sundance508]

Shall we mark you down as in-favor of exploiting immigrants by offering them near slave-wages, then?

If (a) the job needs to be done and (b) you aren't paying the locals enough to recruit and retain 'em, then (c) the skills are worth more than you're making allowance for.

No, mark me down as one of those that believes if YOU want to pay more, feel free to do so.

If (a) the job needs to be done, (b) someone isn't willing to work for what the skills required to do the job are worth, then (c) find someone else willing to do it for that while not providing any social welfare to the one unwilling to work.

If the locals aren't willing to work a job where the pay is equal to the skills required to do it, let them starve.

The cost of paying locals a living wage is cheaper than the combination of slave-wages for Illegal Aliens + fallout from Illegal Aliens + locals starving.

Next slide, please.

I have an easy solution. Get rid of the illegals and let the locals unwilling to work for a wage equal to their skills starve. Solves any problems including fallout.

Then the produce doesn't get picked.

Unacceptable.

In order to ensure that it is picked, while keeping Illegal Aliens out of the mix...

The only real-world practical answer is to pay the locals more...

Allowing the free and open labor marketplace to determine the level of wages...

If you've got a better solution that still gets the produce picked without using Illegal Aliens, by all means, lay it out in front of the audience.

Otherwise, sans Illegals, you'll pay more for your produce, whether you like it or not...

Courtesy of the free and open marketplace of labor, driving the narrative...

If they paid $22.00 an hour plus good benefits, they would get plenty of Americans to do the job. I don't mind paying more for produce if I know it's supporting American workers while at the same time, knowing I'm supporting the end of foreign labor dependency.

When discussing minimum wage, the libs have told me it won't raise the price of our hamburgers all that much. But God forbid we get rid of foreign labor causing a wage increase to get our grapes picked. Grapes would be unaffordable according to our liberal friends.

We have or rather had a traditional servant class that worked for low wages and we did quite well....but along comes LBJ and the usual suspects and began to pay the servants to stay home, to have babies and believe they were beautiful and entitled to be supported by the white working class and viola....we no longer have enough folks willing to work the low paying jobs...what sane person wants a hard job that does not pay well when they can stay home and be supported by the gubmint using the tax monies of the white working class to do so?

So the solution is simple....if you do not work you do not eat...that policy has a history....as when the first colonists arrived here...some thought they were too good to work...thus that rule was instituted...if you do not work...you do not eat..it worked back then and it would work now.

For any society to work there must be a distribution of labor...meaning..not everyone can have a high paying job, not everyone can be a nuclear physicist....thus communism always failed because they tried to make everyone equal....as is our policy now...like we do not know that communism aka marxism, aka socialism has never worked and never will work...witness Venezueala....so the solution is to get folks off the dole and when they are presented the choice of working or starving...guess what they will choose. It is not a fair world folks....there is no nirvana on this earth.

 

[oreo]

Good law. Speak English, have skills. I support it, good move. Only three nagging details to consider:

1. It only applies to legal immigration. While that is important, it's illegal immigration where more of the low skilled workers come in.

2. What about the hotel and farm businesses in America that rely on immigrants because frankly citizens don't want to do that work?

3. Will Melania get deported or is being a model a "highly skilled job"?

Good law. Speak English, have skills. I support it, good move. Only three nagging details to consider:

1. It only applies to legal immigration. While that is important, it's illegal immigration where more of the low skilled workers come in.

2. What about the hotel and farm businesses in America that rely on immigrants because frankly citizens don't want to do that work?

3. Will Melania get deported or is being a model a "highly skilled job"?

I heard that Trump issued more visa's for his hotel business's but farmers are screwed.

The US agricultural sector is growing increasingly alarmed by the recent raids on undocumented immigrants by the nation’s immigration authorities. The industry is particularly dependent on foreign workers. Over the past week, there have been hundreds of arrests made in six states, at least. This has left undocumented workers fearful of traveling, and farmers uncertain whether hiring is worth the risk, according to advocate groups for both demographics. A dwindling labor supply has already been a problem for farmers in the western US for many years. This is partly due to tightened border security, according to Uesugi Farms’ Gilroy general manager, Pete Aiello. He fears that the situation is likely to worsen in 2017 and that there may not be enough contractors for his company.

US Farms Anxious Over Immigration Crackdowns | US Immigration News
Dairy Farmers Fear Loss Of Labor Under Trump Immigration Actions
Trump's Immigration Crackdown Triggers Anxiety Across U.S. Farms

So this will definitely drive up costs at the grocery stores. So Trump wants to replace American skilled workers jobs, now with foreign skilled workers. Yeah makes sense to me--- I am certain American skilled workers are really excited about this plan--

But it's not going to pass in the Republican senate anyway.

"Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, for instance, immediately came out against the bill and said it would be "devastating to our state's economy which relies on this immigrant workforce." Graham said the legislation would primarily target immigrants who work in the state's agriculture, tourism, and service industries, and would even prompt greater amounts of illegal immigration. "Hotels, restaurants, golf courses and farmers will tell you this proposal — to cut legal immigration in half — would put their businesses in peril," he said in a statement. "After dealing with this issue for more than a decade, I know that when you restrict legal labor to employers it incentivizes cheating."

Trump just unveiled a new plan to slash legal immigration

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So this will definitely drive up costs at the grocery stores. So Trump wants to replace American skilled workers jobs, now with foreign skilled workers. Yeah makes sense to me--- I am certain American skilled workers are really excited

Just as excited as the poor or middle-class are with foreigners taking our jobs now.

Worried about the prices at the grocery store, now are ya?

When were the liberals worried about grocery store prices when they were unionized? When were the liberals worried about grocery store prices when they came out with ethanol and we began burning up our food supply? When were the liberals worried about grocery store prices when they created restrictions about lower sulfur diesel fuel that drove up prices and Diesel Emission Fluid that cost transportation companies a bundle which they pass on to us consumers?

No problem there. But to reduce foreigners in this country and put Americans to work instead, now liberals have a concern about grocery store prices.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, mark me down as one of those that believes if YOU want to pay more, feel free to do so.

If (a) the job needs to be done, (b) someone isn't willing to work for what the skills required to do the job are worth, then (c) find someone else willing to do it for that while not providing any social welfare to the one unwilling to work.

If the locals aren't willing to work a job where the pay is equal to the skills required to do it, let them starve.

The cost of paying locals a living wage is cheaper than the combination of slave-wages for Illegal Aliens + fallout from Illegal Aliens + locals starving.

Next slide, please.

I have an easy solution. Get rid of the illegals and let the locals unwilling to work for a wage equal to their skills starve. Solves any problems including fallout.

Then the produce doesn't get picked.

Unacceptable.

In order to ensure that it is picked, while keeping Illegal Aliens out of the mix...

The only real-world practical answer is to pay the locals more...

Allowing the free and open labor marketplace to determine the level of wages...

If you've got a better solution that still gets the produce picked without using Illegal Aliens, by all means, lay it out in front of the audience.

Otherwise, sans Illegals, you'll pay more for your produce, whether you like it or not...

Courtesy of the free and open marketplace of labor, driving the narrative...

If they paid $22.00 an hour plus good benefits, they would get plenty of Americans to do the job. I don't mind paying more for produce if I know it's supporting American workers while at the same time, knowing I'm supporting the end of foreign labor dependency.

When discussing minimum wage, the libs have told me it won't raise the price of our hamburgers all that much. But God forbid we get rid of foreign labor causing a wage increase to get our grapes picked. Grapes would be unaffordable according to our liberal friends.

We have or rather had a traditional servant class that worked for low wages and we did quite well....but along comes LBJ and the usual suspects and began to pay the servants to stay home, to have babies and believe they were beautiful and entitled to be supported by the white working class and viola....we no longer have enough folks willing to work the low paying jobs...what sane person wants a hard job that does not pay well when they can stay home and be supported by the gubmint using the tax monies of the white working class to do so?

So the solution is simple....if you do not work you do not eat...that policy has a history....as when the first colonists arrived here...some thought they were too good to work...thus that rule was instituted...if you do not work...you do not eat..it worked back then and it would work now.

For any society to work there must be a distribution of labor...meaning..not everyone can have a high paying job, not everyone can be a nuclear physicist....thus communism always failed because they tried to make everyone equal....as is our policy now...like we do not know that communism aka marxism, aka socialism has never worked and never will work...witness Venezueala....so the solution is to get folks off the dole and when they are presented the choice of working or starving...guess what they will choose. It is not a fair world folks....there is no nirvana on this earth.

It's a two-fold problem really. There are people who are willing to work, it's just they can't pass a drug test. My employer has to go through several applicants when he looks for new workers just to find one willing to try and pass a drug test. Most just tell him right off the bat that they'll never make it.

It's more than just welfare. More younger people live at home than ever before. At least when I was younger, you couldn't wait to get your own place. If you had a lower paying job, you got a friend to move in with you. In some cases, if you were not going to attend college, the parents told their children right off the bat they had six months to be out of the house after their 18th birthday. They weren't kidding either.

I can't imagine anybody back then telling their parents they couldn't get a job because they don't want to give up smoking pot or whatever. Parents would have thrown them out of the house right there and then.

Years ago it was work or starve. Social programs didn't pay very much and certainly not enough to live on. Some studies today suggest that people living on the dole live very similar to middle-class working people. HUD will get you a nice home in the suburbs. The expansion of Medicaid has you and your family covered for medical care. Did you ever see a skinny food stamp recipient? Hell, if you don't want to work, we will even give you a free cell phone with 250 minutes a month.

In half of the country, over 50% of babies are born on Medicaid; people carelessly having kids because the cost to raise them are of no concern to the parents. And when one-sixth of our society (who can't afford to have children) are creating half of the babies in our country, it tells us they are having way more children than the working.

So why work?