i can see this turning ugly

[Avatar4321]

there is ethics guidelines for every degree I know of though. I had to take a computer science one and every school/degree I saw had an equivalent course

There are no ethics guidelines associated with any degree in the US that requires that you must publicly support homosexuality and admit that it is a hardwired trait.

That's just fucking ludicrous. Who the hell ARE you people? Please return to your rock until you're ripe.

Allie Baba, homosexuality has not been a designated mental illness since the 1960's in this country. Medical professionals who do not adhere to the standards of care in the DSM are likely to find themselves in large trouble with the law, etc. It IS a violation of ethics to try and teach a homosexual person to "be straight".

Then the law is stupid. Since when can the law force someone to accept a certain viewpoint?

This is my entire problem with liberalism. They think people change simply because some law is passed. Somehow passing laws are going to make people tolerant. They are going to make people honest. They are going to make people compassionate, etc.

But they don't. You can't force people to be tolerant. You can't force people to be honest. You can't force people to be compassionate.

If you're ideas are superior, you don't need the law to pass them. People will adopt them when they are educated correctly in them.

 

[AllieBaba]

And what of the GLBT students this woman may someday encounter? Where's our compassion for them? If she is unable to deal with people with dignity, respect and knowledge, she cannot be a public school counselor.

I don't see the problem.

They don't like her, they can go to another counselor. What happened to freedom of religion?

Againshelia, a counselor can do severe damage to a kid before the therapy ends. And kids in school cannot order up new counselors as they wish; they are assigned. I don't happen to see this as a freedom of religion issue because, unless it is a private school, that is not a place she should be injecting her beliefs.

She didn't inject her beliefs.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Kindly link where it's a requirement of any degree to BELIEVE in any particular science. Or where you can have a degree denied to you based on your religion.

You cannot graduate as a Cell and Developmental Biology major without passing Evolutionary Biology courses. If you argue against evolution on religious grounds on your exams, you will not pass.

http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/org/b/biology/www/undergrad/pdfs/biotracks_2009-10.pdf

Standard operating procedure, mamn.

You can pass that course and argue against evolution, as long as you meet the requirements of that course. Science is not a political standard, something you fail to grasp here. It is perfectly acceptable for scientists to challenge theories, as long as those challenges follow scientific protocols.

 

[USAMomma]

Their argument is that she needs more "awareness" not that she has to change her beliefs. Fairly compelling I think.

Exactly. And it is not about her religion it is how she will be able to treat potential patients/clients.

She could be as religious as she wants, but without awareness through working with those who have a lifestyle she may not agree with so as to learn about them, and get some true knowledge and compassion. without this she really could be a detriment to their mental health instead of a professional who is supposed to be helpful and supportive of their clients regardless of their sexual orientation, lifestyle, choice, etc.

She is free to be whatever religion she wants; and again this is not about her religious beliefs it is about how her getting true wisdom by working with those who are "sexually different" than what she believes people should be.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Since faith healing is not medicine no, and that is not what this case is about.

She has nearly completed her Master's Degree and now, since they don't like her political point of view, they want to re-educate her. That is wrong.

I don't agree with her point of view, but neither do I believe that some self-aggrandized liberal nuts have the right to forcibly coerce people over to their point of view especially after having sucked boo-coo bucks out of her bank account and then tell her, "we're sorry, but, we don't like what you think so we are not going to let you graduate until you succumb to our way of thinking."

Immie

okay I will state this and if you get my point and just don't agree then that is okay and we can leave at that......

she doesn't agree with the school's guidelines related to counseling homosexuals. The school has strict standards in this area. if they graduate her knowing that she doesn't follow their guidelines they are putting the school's reputation at risk as well as graduating a person who will knowingly be breaking her ethics and agreed to guidelines every time she counsels a homosexual. how is allowing this to happen a good thing?

No, you are assuming she does not. No one, including the school, has even tried to say she is incapable of following professional standards, or of keeping her personal vies out of her relationship with patients. They are claiming they do not like her views because they do not conform to current psychological research.

And BTW, as someone who's going to law school next year, there's a COC for the ABA, too.

I'm sure the majority of the ABA is leftist, and I'm a libertarian-oriented person. I'm sure I'll have plenty of disagreements with my colleagues and co-workers...but it doesn't mean I'll violate the COC.

My beliefs may defy the norm of what most of the "clan" believes, but I'm not doing so by affecting my work or how I practice law.

 

[AllieBaba]

There are no ethics guidelines associated with any degree in the US that requires that you must publicly support homosexuality and admit that it is a hardwired trait.

That's just fucking ludicrous. Who the hell ARE you people? Please return to your rock until you're ripe.

Allie Baba, homosexuality has not been a designated mental illness since the 1960's in this country. Medical professionals who do not adhere to the standards of care in the DSM are likely to find themselves in large trouble with the law, etc. It IS a violation of ethics to try and teach a homosexual person to "be straight".

Then the law is stupid. Since when can the law force someone to accept a certain viewpoint?

This is my entire problem with liberalism. They think people change simply because some law is passed. Somehow passing laws are going to make people tolerant. They are going to make people honest. They are going to make people compassionate, etc.

But they don't. You can't force people to be tolerant. You can't force people to be honest. You can't force people to be compassionate.

If you're ideas are superior, you don't need the law to pass them. People will adopt them when they are educated correctly in them.

I'm trying to figure out when the hell I said we should teach homos to be non-homos.

And the rest of Maddie's post is just crap.

And when the hell did I say homosexuality was a mental illness? WTF?

 

[Avatar4321]

Well, it was sure a waste of time, work, and study for her, don't you think?

How can anything be a waste of time to study?

astronomy from 1950s textbooks?

How is it a waste of time to understand how people viewed astronomy in the 1950s? It provides context for the development of astronomy and explains how certain theories and discoveries were made. I would think after this week people would realize that context matters.

 

[AllieBaba]

Progressives don't like the masses to have knowledge. They're supposed to stick to the current script.

 

[blu]

This is my entire problem with liberalism.

you are seriously insane if you think only liberals groups do this. if a group just accepts anyone into their group even though they dont follow their guidelines than they whole group and anyone who accredits them are meaningless. standards need to be upheld and this girl's beliefs clearly clashed with the ACAs and the schools.

If you're ideas are superior, you don't need the law to pass them. People will adopt them when they are educated correctly in them.

isn't this exactly what the school is trying to do with the sensitivity stuff?

 

[AllieBaba]

Liberal groups are the only ones who do it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Then since they want to impose their unwarranted beliefs on what a school counselor should believe, they should refund every dime she has had to pay including tuition, book and student fees to her and let her continue her education at a school that does not impose its irreligious and liberal point of view on students.

Immie

She understood the requirements of graduation before she signed up, and clearly understood that her beliefs contradicted the goals of her profession through arguments with the professors. She signed contracts where she understood the very strict circumstances in which she could obtain a refund, circumstances which have long since passed.

Can you supply me with copies of these alleged contracts?

 

[Oscar Wao]

There are no ethics guidelines associated with any degree in the US that requires that you must publicly support homosexuality and admit that it is a hardwired trait.

That's just fucking ludicrous. Who the hell ARE you people? Please return to your rock until you're ripe.

Allie Baba, homosexuality has not been a designated mental illness since the 1960's in this country. Medical professionals who do not adhere to the standards of care in the DSM are likely to find themselves in large trouble with the law, etc. It IS a violation of ethics to try and teach a homosexual person to "be straight".

Then the law is stupid. Since when can the law force someone to accept a certain viewpoint?

This is my entire problem with liberalism. They think people change simply because some law is passed. Somehow passing laws are going to make people tolerant. They are going to make people honest. They are going to make people compassionate, etc.

But they don't. You can't force people to be tolerant. You can't force people to be honest. You can't force people to be compassionate.

If you're ideas are superior, you don't need the law to pass them. People will adopt them when they are educated correctly in them.

It's not having the viewpoint that gets you in trouble with da man. It's if and how you're going to apply it 9-5.

Teaching a homosexual teenager that he can be "cured" of his sexuality if he's going through a confusing time is, IMO, not the best idea. He's got his own junk to deal with at the moment, he doesn't need more confusion piled on top of it.

 

[blu]

How can anything be a waste of time to study?

astronomy from 1950s textbooks?

How is it a waste of time to understand how people viewed astronomy in the 1950s?

damn, could have worded I guess. I meant to say '1950s astronomy textbooks' and it would be a waste of time b/c almost all of the data is wrong. My granddad has a masters in physics from long ago and much of what he learned about space, etc is now proven wrong or different. it was kind of just a joke to lighten up the thread

 

[USAMomma]

I just hope she is able to learn some true wisdom of humanity in general and is able to help others if that is truly what she wishes to do. If her religious views are that strong that she feels she cannot work with anyone of the GLTB etc then perhaps she should consider private practice in the church?

Heading out for a walk so have a good night everyone

 

[AllieBaba]

Allie Baba, homosexuality has not been a designated mental illness since the 1960's in this country. Medical professionals who do not adhere to the standards of care in the DSM are likely to find themselves in large trouble with the law, etc. It IS a violation of ethics to try and teach a homosexual person to "be straight".

Then the law is stupid. Since when can the law force someone to accept a certain viewpoint?

This is my entire problem with liberalism. They think people change simply because some law is passed. Somehow passing laws are going to make people tolerant. They are going to make people honest. They are going to make people compassionate, etc.

But they don't. You can't force people to be tolerant. You can't force people to be honest. You can't force people to be compassionate.

If you're ideas are superior, you don't need the law to pass them. People will adopt them when they are educated correctly in them.

It's not having the viewpoint that gets you in trouble with da man. It's if and how you're going to apply it 9-5.

Teaching a homosexual teenager that he can be "cured" of his sexuality if he's going through a confusing time is, IMO, not the best idea. He's got his own junk to deal with at the moment, he doesn't need more confusion piled on top of it.

Again, WHO proposed that be done?

Certainly not the woman whose degree was yanked from her.
Not me.

So who?

 

[Oscar Wao]

How can anything be a waste of time to study?

astronomy from 1950s textbooks?

How is it a waste of time to understand how people viewed astronomy in the 1950s? It provides context for the development of astronomy and explains how certain theories and discoveries were made. I would think after this week people would realize that context matters.

Maybe he thinks it's boring for him personally?

I agree with blu...science isn't my favorite subject. I say "go on" to whoever is a science geek, but I personally think it's a waste of time to study.

 

[blu]

astronomy from 1950s textbooks?

How is it a waste of time to understand how people viewed astronomy in the 1950s? It provides context for the development of astronomy and explains how certain theories and discoveries were made. I would think after this week people would realize that context matters.

Maybe he thinks it's boring for him personally?

I agree with blu...science isn't my favorite subject. I say "go on" to whoever is a science geek, but I personally think it's a waste of time to study.

my post was just misread/mistype horribly. I am a total science geek. got a bachelors in comp science and spend plenty of free time studying math, physics, and coding

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Lets remember this article is in the Christian Post.

Let us also remember that it takes care to present both sides of the case, and does not make a judgement, unlike similar pieces on MSNBC or Fox.

 

[eagleseven]

You can pass that course and argue against evolution, as long as you meet the requirements of that course.

A requirement of the course is acceptance of modern evolution.

Science is not a political standard, something you fail to grasp here. It is perfectly acceptable for scientists to challenge theories, as long as those challenges follow scientific protocols.

Undergraduates are in no position, both academically and professionally, to challenge an established physical law.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

except that fixing the gay as you imply is against the code of conduct

Is it? Is it a requirement of the program that you accept homosexuality?

you don't have to accept it openly or w/e but you can't tell your patient who is gay that its wrong and that they need to "fix" their lifestyle

No one is claiming she did, including the people she actually counseled, some of whom would actually have been people grading her counseling ability.