i can see this turning ugly

[Quantum Windbag]

Complete bullshit. High school counselors help kids schedule their classes and apply for college.

This is not that sort of counseling.

Except that it is, she is enrolled in this program:

Educational Leadership, Counseling and Special Education | Augusta State University

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Has she given any indication that she can't treat them with respect even if she disapproves of their lifestyle? I am a public school teacher. I teach criminals and kids who smell. Just because I don't approve of their choices outside of school, doesn't mean I can't treat them with respect.

It means that homosexual students would not be able to turn to her for appropriate help...thus she cannot perform her job.

This bias of this school is that gay kids need special handling. That is no less prejudiced than her own beliefs. Gay kids don't run into the counselors office talking about butt sex. Straight kids don't either. They are just kids!

But they may run in and say "I was beat up because I kissed Billy."

And they they commit suicide.

How do you know this? Are you simply basing your belief in this on your prejudice against honest Christians?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Christian student sues ASU | The Augusta Chronicle

Thank you.

Keeton claims that she has voiced her Christian beliefs inside and outside the classroom on homosexuality and other biblical teachings. ASU faculty has ordered her to undergo a remediation plan, which would include diversity sensitivity workshops, she says.

Seems no different from a company/agency forcing an employee to undergo "Anger Management" or "Diversity" or "Alcoholic's Anonymous" programs.

If I worked for a company that tried to make me attend AA I would sue them in a heartbeat.

 

[AllieBaba]

Yup.

Though I'll tell you something our administrative person told me when I was first hired...she said that if anyone is ever called in and asked if they have a drinking problem, they should say yes and say they were going to get treatment.

Because you can't be fired if you're in treatment. They have to give you a chance.

That's something we got from the unions, bless their drunken hearts!

Just thought I'd share, I always thought that was interesting.

 

[blu]

Christian student sues ASU | The Augusta Chronicle

Thank you.

Keeton claims that she has voiced her Christian beliefs inside and outside the classroom on homosexuality and other biblical teachings. ASU faculty has ordered her to undergo a remediation plan, which would include diversity sensitivity workshops, she says.

Seems no different from a company/agency forcing an employee to undergo "Anger Management" or "Diversity" or "Alcoholic's Anonymous" programs.

If I worked for a company that tried to make me attend AA I would sue them in a heartbeat.

you obviously never worked in a place where heavy machinery is used and showing up to work drunk can get you fired

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's a state school. You mean to tell me there isn't one Muslim counselor in the entire state of GA?

No.

I mean to tell you that no Muslims graduated from this specific program, at this specific school.

You assume with absolutely no evidence other than your arrogance.

 

[USAMomma]

diversity sensitivity workshop

I just do not see any problem with this especially since a public school and especially if she is going into a field that she may be "exposed" to those whose beliefs differ from her own. As a counselor she should want to help others but if her views are different than those she is supposed to counsel and help and she feels she is unable to then like I said, perhaps she should go into private practice through the church.

 

[USAMomma]

Well, looking at this situation from both sides, I do feel if she has done well in her coursework and classes and passed her exams she should graduate with her class but should seriously consider if she will be able to do a good job working with others whose lifestyle is something she does not agree with or has real-world, true knowledge of.

Working in the church could be ideal for her.

Whatever, I do wish her the best.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I'm still waiting for anyone to prove that it's okay to deny a degree based upon somebody's political and religious beliefs.

So please tell me how I'm off base.

political and religious affiliation had nothing to do with it. its that the women had beliefs directly against the code of ethics and guidelines set by the organization she wished to be approved and accredited by

The only place I am seeing that claim being made is in this thread, it therefore has no basis in reality. She says she can abide by that code, and unless there is evidence that she cannot they are required to accept that statement, because they accept it from everyone else. They are therefore basing their belief that she cannot on nothing more than their prejudice.

 

[blu]

Well, looking at this situation from both sides, I do feel if she has done well in her coursework and classes and passed her exams she should graduate with her class but should seriously consider if she will be able to do a good job working with others whose lifestyle is something she does not agree with or has real-world, true knowledge of.

this is about the same conclusion I came to

 

[blu]

I'm still waiting for anyone to prove that it's okay to deny a degree based upon somebody's political and religious beliefs.

So please tell me how I'm off base.

political and religious affiliation had nothing to do with it. its that the women had beliefs directly against the code of ethics and guidelines set by the organization she wished to be approved and accredited by

The only place I am seeing that claim being made is in this thread, it therefore has no basis in reality. She says she can abide by that code, and unless there is evidence that she cannot they are required to accept that statement, because they accept it from everyone else. They are therefore basing their belief that she cannot on nothing more than their prejudice.

thats why I think there is more to this story that what the girl's side is saying or the school is going to get sued successfully for a ton of money

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"Julea Ward had reached the end of the Master's program at Eastern Michigan University, which calls for students to take actual counseling cases. She was confronted with the task of counseling a homosexual concerning a same-gender relationship. Ward asked to opt out of the case, based on her religious beliefs, and then found herself before a panel of educators.



"The school said, 'Well, you have to.' And Julea said, 'Well, that would violate my fundamental religious beliefs to do that' -- and they said, 'Sorry, you're dismissed from our program,'" accounts Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) attorney Jeremy Tedesco. "And so the real fundamental question here is, can Christians maintain adherence to their core beliefs and still get a degree from a public school?"

Grad student takes stand for faith, denied degree (OneNewsNow.com)

Now we see a case where the school is probably right. this is arguably a requirement of graduation, and she refused to comply with that requirement by refusing to counsel someone assigned to her. After she gets into private practice she will have the luxury of picking and choosing patients, but during schooling and training she takes what pops up.

 

[eagleseven]

But they may run in and say "I was beat up because I kissed Billy."

And they they commit suicide.

How do you know this? Are you simply basing your belief in this on your prejudice against honest Christians?

I have worked with gay teens who have mental issues, and hence know this situation is so common as to be trite.

Pfizer should be thanking Fundamentalist Christian parents for all the business they generate.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are misunderstanding the issues here.

The school is not trying to hold her to professional standards, as no professional group requires that someone believe something that has no basis in science. LGBT activists have always claimed that there is no choice in sexual preferences, and have been repeatedly forced to modify their position as evidence mounted that their arguments lack a basis in reality. They first argued that sexual preference is based on genetics, which was decisively disproved. Now they argue that it is deterministic and part of a state of being, which is an outright philosophical point of view.

If they want to hold her to some sort of scientific standard that is one thing, but all they want is for her to adapt their philosophical worldview, which is another way of saying their religion.

Blu is one of those who has never accepted that the hardwire theory was disproved.

Explain how it was "disproven".

The genetic theory was disproved, the hard wire fallback is not a theory because it is not based in science.

 

[eagleseven]

The genetic theory was disproved, the hard wire fallback is not a theory because it is not based in science.

Linky?

Wait, I've got one:

Homosexuality Linked to Genetics in Mice - TIME NewsFeed

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Prove that it is a condition of receiving your degree that you embrace the (proven) wrong theory that homosexuality isn't a choice.

how hard is it for you to figure out?

1) the ACA said that trying to revert homosexuals back to being striaght is wrong
2) the ACA said that homosexuality is *not* a choice
3) the school adopts the same ethics and guidelines as the ACA
4) part of getting a degree from said school is agreeing with their ethics which is the same as the ACAs
5) girl in question doesn't agree with ACA ethics

therefore:

she does not get her degree from the school

if you dont agree with the above than re-read my link in the post I quoted as well as the semi-rebuttal from the school explaining their alliance with ACAs guidelines

my point of view:

she should get the degree unconditionally and her licensing should be based on her questions regarding her future treatments of homosexuals that come to her

1) She has never expressed that point of view.
2) The ACA does not have a stance on the cause of homosexuality.
3) Where did you get the idea that the school follows the guidelines of a professional organization that has nothing to do with education? They are, however, required to follow the guidelines of their accrediting agency and the state and federal governments, which they are not doing.
4) Where does it state that?
5) ACA ethics require that counselors do not attempt to cure homosexuals, where has she stated that she is trying to do this?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You are misunderstanding the issues here.

The school is not trying to hold her to professional standards, as no professional group requires that someone believe something that has no basis in science. LGBT activists have always claimed that there is no choice in sexual preferences, and have been repeatedly forced to modify their position as evidence mounted that their arguments lack a basis in reality. They first argued that sexual preference is based on genetics, which was decisively disproved. Now they argue that it is deterministic and part of a state of being, which is an outright philosophical point of view.

If they want to hold her to some sort of scientific standard that is one thing, but all they want is for her to adapt their philosophical worldview, which is another way of saying their religion.

Blu is one of those who has never accepted that the hardwire theory was disproved.

Whether or not the "hardwired" issue is fact, there are many other factors that determine that one's homosexuality is NOT a choice. You can choose to engage in sexual behavior but that's about as far as choice goes.

What evidence, other than anecdotal, do you have that it is not a choice? If homosexuality is not a choice, is criminal behavior also beyond a persons ability to choose? If they do not have a choice do you still advocate punishing them for breaking the law?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

for the 10th time now:

Student sues ASU over anti-homosexual beliefs | NBC Augusta 26 | news, weather, sports, community, entertainment, shopping for Augusta, Georgia | Local News

The university says the problem lies between the school's curriculum and the student's beliefs.

The American Counseling Association code of ethics requires counselors to empathize with homosexuals.

According to the affidavit, her professors said she needed to be able to identify with the gay community to get her counseling degree.

how many more sources do you need?

How can any straight person identify with the gay community? And where has she shown the inability to do so, other than in stating that she believes that it is a choice, and not a state of being, something which some gay activists believe also? Would they also be prohibited from getting a degree, even though they are gay? Somehow I doubt that, and I bet you do also. Which would force you to acknowledge this is about her beliefs as a Christian, and not just her beliefs.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There's plenty of proof that homosexuality isn't a choice. You don't need to be a four-eyes mad scientist with 50 doctoral degrees to prove that it isn't a choice, either.

All it requires is plain old common sense. WOULD you choose attractions that are not accepted as social standard? Even if more people are becoming at least sympathetic to gays, they still uphold that heterosexuality is the standard norm.

I know I would NOT "choose" something that you have to work hard for to be accepted.

Show me some evidence, don't just claim it exists.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Avatar:

It's not religious beliefs. It's not even thinking homosexuality is wrong.

It's when you APPLY IT TO YOUR JOB is when it becomes debatable.

Which she has said will not happen, and no one has provided any evidence that it will.