I Have A Question. Answers are not Mandated. I am a Republican.

[rdean]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

so here's my next question. coal mining is something I know little about, I know it's hard dangerous dirty work.. can these families sue the pants off this company? I hope they do.

Yes, the workers' families can and probably will sue. If discovery can document that the Massey execs knew without a doubt of the danger and elected to do nothing, then criminal charges up to murder can be considered by a district attorney's office. I doubt very much that the latter will happen.

They probably won't be able too. "Voluntary Compliance" legally moves the responsibility from the company to the worker. Besides, if such a case went all the way to the Supreme Court, could you see Roberts and Scalia and Thomas on the side of the miners? Or the Companies?

 

[goldcatt]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

so here's my next question. coal mining is something I know little about, I know it's hard dangerous dirty work.. can these families sue the pants off this company? I hope they do.

It depends what the investigation finds, although with Massey's history not only of extensive violations but of other similar catastrophes (Sego, anyone?) there's no doubt in my mind they intentionally put these miners at risk to squeeze out an extra buck. It's not as easy as a case where Retard #1 rear ends Retard #2 though, something like this would take years.

 

[dilloduck]

Retard #1 rear ends Retard #2

OK which USMB posters are you referring to this time ?

 

[goldcatt]

Retard #1 rear ends Retard #2

OK which USMB posters are you referring to this time ?

Could be a lot. Pick 'em.

 

[Avatar4321]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

Yes because unions would have prevented this situation. Those evil mine owners like just killing off their miners and needing to conduct a job search every 3 months.

 

[goldcatt]

There's another problem with a lawsuit here, and I don't know the details but all vital energy industries have laws in place limiting their liability in case of accident, even negligence. The amount of damages may be set and is almost certainly capped by law unless they can prove the company rose to a disgusting level of, well, for lack of a better word disgustingness. I never worked with anything like this, but I'll bet ten bucks the coal mining industry got itself a deal somewhere along the line.

 

[Coyote]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

Yes because unions would have prevented this situation. Those evil mine owners like just killilng off their miners and needing to conduct a job search every 3 months.

If you know anything about the history of mining and unions you would know that unions were/are the most powerful force behind safer working conditions for miners in addition to a number of other improvements. If you want to see what it's like without unions - look at China's record.

 

[jillian]

They are drilling holes to vent the dangerous methane gas out of that mine.. Why now? Why didn't they vent them in the first place and avoid the explosion?

because the company made an economic decision that it was cheaper to let their employees be endangered than adhere to regulations which required that the methane be vented.

 

[Granny]

Methane doesn't care whether a mine is union or non-union. It's just there and could blow at any time. I understand you can't smell the methane gasses. Massey is a pretty big name in coal and it appears that it really doesn't give a damn - they have multiple ongoing safety violations.

Mining is a hard, dirty, unhealthy job ... but generations of people work the mines. It's all they know and they do have families to take care of. The people of Appalachia are strong people and have a very deep faith. It's a horrible thing they're going through, but they will get themselves and each other through it.

 

[goldcatt]

Methane doesn't care whether a mine is union or non-union. It's just there and could blow at any time. I understand you can't smell the methane gasses. Massey is a pretty big name in coal and it appears that it really doesn't give a damn - they have multiple ongoing safety violations.

Mining is a hard, dirty, unhealthy job ... but generations of people work the mines. It's all they know and they do have families to take care of. The people of Appalachia are strong people and have a very deep faith. It's a horrible thing they're going through, but they will get themselves and each other through it.

Problem is there was a citation issued for failure to properly ventilate on March 30th. A week later.....

Mining is a dangerous job, and yes these are tough people who understand the risks. I don't disagree there. Accidents can happen even when all safety precautions are taken. But when they're not, and men are lost who never had to be, there's a problem.

 

[rdean]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

Yes because unions would have prevented this situation. Those evil mine owners like just killing off their miners and needing to conduct a job search every 3 months.

You've always been a fairly rotten person, but sometimes you go over the top that make you even more disgusting than normal.

I used to think that too many right wingers have drunk the kool-aid.

Take Unions. They have given us the 40 hour work week, paid vacations, overtime and holidays.

Republicans have voted against child labor laws, health care, minimum wage and Social Security. At the same time, cutting corporate taxes and removing regulations that lead to disasters just like this very one.

I keep thinking, are they stupid, evil, sick? But I realize, it's a different mindset. Democrats believe the health of the country is reflected by it's citizens. Republicans think the health of the country is reflected by it's corporations. To Republcians, the US is like a beehive. So what if a few bees die or the sick bees die off? It's the hive that's important. They go where they are told and believe what they are ordered to believe, for he good of the hive.

 

[beowolfe]

They are drilling holes to vent the dangerous methane gas out of that mine.. Why now? Why didn't they vent them in the first place and avoid the explosion?

Not sure what your being republican has to do with it, but I'd venture to answer your question with the following.

It was more profitable to NOT drill the extra vents.

 

[beowolfe]

I'm not sure, but what I'm reading makes me think the 'state' is doing the rescue work and that makes me wonder if the state will pick up the tab for the extra vents. If so, there is another answer to your question. Why pay to for extra vents when, IF there is an accident, the state will do it free of charge to you.

 

[uscitizen]

There's another problem with a lawsuit here, and I don't know the details but all vital energy industries have laws in place limiting their liability in case of accident, even negligence. The amount of damages may be set and is almost certainly capped by law unless they can prove the company rose to a disgusting level of, well, for lack of a better word disgustingness. I never worked with anything like this, but I'll bet ten bucks the coal mining industry got itself a deal somewhere along the line.

I just hope those that have been yelling for tort reform get bit by it someday.

 

[uscitizen]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

Yes because unions would have prevented this situation. Those evil mine owners like just killing off their miners and needing to conduct a job search every 3 months.

You've always been a fairly rotten person, but sometimes you go over the top that make you even more disgusting than normal.

I used to think that too many right wingers have drunk the kool-aid.

Take Unions. They have given us the 40 hour work week, paid vacations, overtime and holidays.

Republicans have voted against child labor laws, health care, minimum wage and Social Security. At the same time, cutting corporate taxes and removing regulations that lead to disasters just like this very one.

I keep thinking, are they stupid, evil, sick? But I realize, it's a different mindset. Democrats believe the health of the country is reflected by it's citizens. Republicans think the health of the country is reflected by it's corporations. To Republcians, the US is like a beehive. So what if a few bees die or the sick bees die off? It's the hive that's important. They go where they are told and believe what they are ordered to believe, for he good of the hive.

Yep corporatists. aka stooges

 

[goldcatt]

There's another problem with a lawsuit here, and I don't know the details but all vital energy industries have laws in place limiting their liability in case of accident, even negligence. The amount of damages may be set and is almost certainly capped by law unless they can prove the company rose to a disgusting level of, well, for lack of a better word disgustingness. I never worked with anything like this, but I'll bet ten bucks the coal mining industry got itself a deal somewhere along the line.

I just hope those that have been yelling for tort reform get bit by it someday.

If it's actually an accident, which can happen under the best of conditions, these laws make sense. It's like a legally mandated life insurance policy for the families and limits liability for something inherently dangerous for companies who follow the rules and provide vital goods and services. We'd be screwed without coal.

In a case like this? That company should be held liable for the wrongful death of its employees to the same standard as anybody else who was reckless at best.

I'm curious now, I'll have to go digging and see what I can find.

 

[George Costanza]

They ventilate by other means during normal operations, but that option isn't available after an explosion and possible cave in. I'm sure they are taking the shortest road.

I'm not doubting you here - but how in the hell do you know this?

 

[uscitizen]

They ventilate by other means during normal operations, but that option isn't available after an explosion and possible cave in. I'm sure they are taking the shortest road.

I'm not doubting you here - but how in the hell do you know this?

Umm a lot of the ventillation flow is thru the mine tunnel and if it is caved in.....

I worked a couple of summers for a mining engineering company.
And grew up in mining country. My grandfather was a lifelong miner and others in my family as well.

 

[Zona]

They are drilling holes to vent the dangerous methane gas out of that mine.. Why now? Why didn't they vent them in the first place and avoid the explosion?

Because the owner is a right wing anti union asshole who could care less about his workers. He is all about money, not safety. That is a fact because of all the violations he receives and the internal memo he sent. That memo pretty much said, I dont care about the workers, make money.

Fucking republican anti union people make me sick. He killed those people. Period. He is rich and wont do a day in jail. Wait for it.

 

[Zona]

That's a very good question, Willow. If the workers had been unionized, the collective bargaining agreement would have allowed the workers to categorically refuse to work in an unsafe area without being in fear of losing their jobs. I know a bit about the coal and area history of this conflict in VA, KY, WV, TN, and NC. Massey, Peabody, and other coal companies have massively resisted unionization, yet have failed to address such safety conditions.

My heart is with the miners' families.

Oh my,, somebody has been watching mr. ed. Why can't they refuse to work in an unsafe mine without the union?

Because they would be fired, and from what I understand in that area, there is no other work. Not really and this pos owner knows it.