I have been Called to the Principal's Office

[Samson]

So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.

You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?

I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.

Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?

Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.

shouldn't that be *are*? as in both are possible?

yes, i think it should.

bring us a note from your english teacher before posting again, please. no wonder kids learn nothing if you're an exmple of those who teach.

I'd like to read your post, but I cannot because nothing's capitalized.

 

[strollingbones]

so what happened?

 

[del]

I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.

Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?

Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.

shouldn't that be *are*? as in both are possible?

yes, i think it should.

bring us a note from your english teacher before posting again, please. no wonder kids learn nothing if you're an exmple of those who teach.

I'd like to read your post, but I cannot because nothing's capitalized.

nobody likes a sore loser, son.

 

[Samson]

so what happened?

<<<<sigh>>>>

I'm glad you asked:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/educa...d-to-the-principals-office-7.html#post2784381

 

[Annie]

"Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.

So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.

You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?

I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.

Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?

Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.

Actually we are at the point that there isn't a reasonable answer to what you want. Which is in all likelihood what you met up with in schools. Not because of your son's developmental delays, but because of your insistence that all classes be taught as you want.

I think you are a phenomenal father, I'll lay odds you were a phenomenal teacher in subject matter, but you are unhinged regarding expectations for normal secondary students.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.

The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....

So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.

I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"

I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."

Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.

Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?

Yes, please. I am coming into this two weeks behind.

 

[Annie]

Began when I arrived and asked if I'd missed signing the Meeting Attendance Sheet.

The principal chuckled, thinking I was kidding.....

So I pulled out my own prepared attendance sheet, including a description of my complaint, and the two questions I needed to ask.

I signed, then began its rotation. Principal said...."um, I thought we'd just have an informal chat.....?"

I replied, "That was great, but that I needed to record the attendees for MY RECORDS."

Anyway, I suggest that anyone visiting with public officials begin their meeting this way. It sets a no BS tone that is unmistakable.

Does anyone care to hear how the rest of the meeting went?

Yes, please. I am coming into this two weeks behind.

You are truly a worthless POS. Both Samson and myself have kids as are bottom line, we disagree on how to evaluate and probably teach. I'm guessing he'd hate for me to teach his children. I could not do what he wants. Yet, I'm really a great teacher, while I wouldn't have taught my own kids, I do wish they had someone as committed as I am.

 

[AllieBaba]

So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.

You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?

I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.

Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?

Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.

shouldn't that be *are*? as in both are possible?

yes, i think it should.

bring us a note from your english teacher before posting again, please. no wonder kids learn nothing if you're an exmple of those who teach.

Er...shouldn't that be an "E" in English?

Bring us a note etc. and so forth....

 

[Samson]

So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.

You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?

I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.

Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?

Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.

Actually we are at the point that there isn't a reasonable answer to what you want. Which is in all likelihood what you met up with in schools. Not because of your son's developmental delays, but because of your insistence that all classes be taught as you want.

I think you are a phenomenal father, I'll lay odds you were a phenomenal teacher in subject matter, but you are unhinged regarding expectations for normal secondary students.

Thanks Annie.

What would happen if all parents were as unhinged as me....?....sigh.......the whole damn system would collapse, I suppose

 

[Annie]

I wish it would be easy to converse with you. You want something different, at least now. So I'm saying I've exhausted my ideas.

Shouldn't be hard to find 'great schools.'

Shouldn't be hard to find 'good schools.'

Shouldn't be hard to find 'adequate schools.'

 

[saveliberty]

I have always thought good students and good teachers can grow and prosper even in a poor district. That doesn't mean you are going to change the whole culture.

 

[jillian]

To my way of thinking, if your kid already knows all the relevant vocabulary, then that means they're just reviewing things he's already learned instead of teaching him anything new. It's not like biology vocabulary - for example - is commonly used in everyday language. It's technical jargon, for crying out loud, and if the subject matter's new, then it is by God going to have new vocabulary he's never heard or used before.

10th grade bio vocab isn't 'technical jargon', it is generally referred to as 'common knowledge'

If it was "common knowledge", they wouldn't have to teach a class on it in high school.

Some examples of technical jargon used in 10th grade biology class that one doesn't generally learn in everyday conversation:

Lysosome
Endoplasmic reticulum
Autotroph
Punnett Square
Prokaryotes
Trophic Level

Would you really like to tell us that you knew the meanings of all of these words when you went into sophomore biology class, and didn't need to be taught what they were? That you habitually discussed these things on a regular basis? I sincerely doubt you would know the definitions NOW without looking them up. Most people who don't work in a related field wouldn't.

i still remember how to do punnett squares.

they were fun.

carry on.

 

[Samson]

I'll see graded papers.

Or I'll begin to sharpen my pen.

Mightier than the sword, ya know.

 

[saveliberty]

I'll see graded papers.

Or I'll begin to sharpen my pen.

Mightier than the sword, ya know.

Ball point?

 

[Cecilie1200]

It cracks me up that a tenth grader would have to get his parent to sign that said parent looked at the kid's assignment.

I can see this in elementary school, but high school?

Sometimes it is best to let your children *ahem* grow up and take responsibility for their own actions.

how do you think samson will do on his kid's first job interview?

I imagine he'll be pretty calm and confident, knowing that he's ensured that his kid is well-educated and ready for it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.

Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?

If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home? A videotape of the class?

"Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.

Discussing literature was one of my favorite things to do in school, and I distinctly remember getting quizzes and tests on what we discussed, to demonstrate that we had read the book, were paying attention to the discussion, and had understood the material. It can be hard in a classroom full of thirty kids for everyone to get a chance to visibly "participate", and hey, some kids are really shy about talking in class.
Doesn't mean they weren't listening and learning.

 

[Foxfyre]

Exactly. In Ninth Grade we read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in English class and we discussed it extensively. Then we were instructed to write a paper that must be at least eight to ten pages long outlining the universal truths in Julius Caesar and why those were universal truths. Students who didn't pay attention during the discussion probably didn't do well on that paper. And the rest of us were required to condense our thinking, actually identify and be able to explain the various components, and organize them into a coherant form.

The discussion was the 'teaching'. The composition was the evidence that the 'teaching' had been learned and understood. The teacher was there for students who got stuck or had questions during the week long process of writing that paper.

I don't know how any teacher determines that the kids are actually getting it without some form of testing mechanism. That was an exercise that I still remember to this day however. And it inspired me to want to be a writer/resercher.

I understand that the composition was the "test" showing evidence of learning.

However, that was not done weekly, correct? Which is what Samson would like from his child's teachers...weekly graded items.

There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.

I have six hours of college American History in which half the grade was based on class participation and half on the one exam--the final exam. I attended the first class and did not attend another until the last day and the final exam. I aced the final and made a C for the course. How? By scanning the text book (from which the professor never deviated) to re-memorize dates and names and from Highschool history classes in which I did have a graded quiz every week.

Do you think I got my money's worth for the college courses? I definitely learned the history in Highschool and continue to have a lifetime fascination and appreciation for it. But I did have a weekly quiz--usually graded by a classmate--but recorded by the teacher--and periodic major written tests that counted for a good deal of my grade.

Maybe every single week is too much to expect, but a few graded homework assignments or tests during the month I do not think is too much to expect from any teacher.

 

[saveliberty]

Holding the parents, student and teachers responsible is not unreasonable. The reporting period may be up for debate. Seems to me, that students at risk for a grade below a C should be the reporting priority.

 

[Annie]

Holding the parents, student and teachers responsible is not unreasonable. The reporting period may be up for debate. Seems to me, that students at risk for a grade below a C should be the reporting priority.

I agree. Not just below a C, but even those with a C, but clearly capable of doing better. You're correct I believe, the differences between Samson's opinion and my own has more to do with the intervals being written in stone. Assessments such as exit cards, are designed more for the teacher, to make sure if the students missed the 'target goals' that the lesson plans for the next day can be modified. Then a quiz would appear. Since e the students are writing them in the minute or two before leaving and I'm collecting them as they pass, grading for spelling, legibility, would be unfair. With those, I don't care even if they write lists if appropriate.

My goal as a teacher is for every student to understand the material and earn the highest grade they are capable of. If a 'quiz' has an average of 75%, I did something wrong. The students shouldn't be penalized for it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Almost everybody is capable of doing better!