I have been Called to the Principal's Office

[Samson]

Unless your child is made to write an essay detailing their participation for the week.

What? Teach WRITING??? In English?

Sir, certainly, you jest.

I'd be tickled pink.

There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.

Why structure "not to produce weekly graded items?"

Why not structure to produce a SINGLE FUCKING PIECE OF EVIDENCE that SOMETHING was learned during an entire WEEK of learning??

How many professionals have the luxury of not needing to produce a single piece of evidence that they did anything for an entire week, yet they get paid for that week?

 

[Annie]

Exactly. In Ninth Grade we read Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" in English class and we discussed it extensively. Then we were instructed to write a paper that must be at least eight to ten pages long outlining the universal truths in Julius Caesar and why those were universal truths. Students who didn't pay attention during the discussion probably didn't do well on that paper. And the rest of us were required to condense our thinking, actually identify and be able to explain the various components, and organize them into a coherant form.

The discussion was the 'teaching'. The composition was the evidence that the 'teaching' had been learned and understood. The teacher was there for students who got stuck or had questions during the week long process of writing that paper.

I don't know how any teacher determines that the kids are actually getting it without some form of testing mechanism. That was an exercise that I still remember to this day however. And it inspired me to want to be a writer/resercher.

I understand that the composition was the "test" showing evidence of learning.

However, that was not done weekly, correct? Which is what Samson would like from his child's teachers...weekly graded items.

There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.

I don't know. It has been a LONG time now, but I can't remember a week in highschool that we didn't have either a pop quiz on our homework or that week's lectures or a major scheduled test. The scheduled tests counted more toward our grades of course than did the pop quizzes, but the quizzes did count. And knowing they could come at any time kept most of us doing our homework reading assignments, handing in written homework assignments, and paying attention in class.

As somebody suggested, we often just switched papers with a classmate and graded each other's papers as the teacher gave us the answers and then turned in the papers for the grades to be recorded. That saved the teachers a lot of time but it did keep some kind of accountability in place as to what we were absorbing and remembering.

Actually those are very hard to use. In any case in most schools today, one is forbidden to have another student grade another's paper.

I stand in awe of really good math teachers, I don't have the skills to teach that. But I will say, that when it comes to assessments, reinforcement, etc., they have it made. There are right and wrong answers, whatever the education departments in universities assert.

Yes, if I was teaching math, I could send home at least weekly, if not daily assessments of one sort or another. Science, close, but not quite. Hypothesis count, which may be wrong at the onset, but with commentary may be quite viable.

 

[xotoxi]

Actually those are very hard to use. In any case in most schools today, one is forbidden to have another student grade another's paper.

I stand in awe of really good math teachers, I don't have the skills to teach that. But I will say, that when it comes to assessments, reinforcement, etc., they have it made. There are right and wrong answers, whatever the education departments in universities assert.

Yes, if I was teaching math, I could send home at least weekly, if not daily assessments of one sort or another. Science, close, but not quite. Hypothesis count, which may be wrong at the onset, but with commentary may be quite viable.

Sometimes you can get partial credit in math when you are doing really difficult and complex problems...but it's nothing like reading a teen's babbling text.

 

[Annie]

Of course EVERYTHING cannot be learned ONE WAY.

Who said scantron's should be the only tool to evaluate learning?

If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home? A videotape of the class?

"Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.

So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.

You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?

 

[xotoxi]

Unless your child is made to write an essay detailing their participation for the week.

What? Teach WRITING??? In English?

Sir, certainly, you jest.

I'd be tickled pink.

There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.

Why structure "not to produce weekly graded items?"

Why not structure to produce a SINGLE FUCKING PIECE OF EVIDENCE that SOMETHING was learned during an entire WEEK of learning??

How many professionals have the luxury of not needing to produce a single piece of evidence that they did anything for an entire week, yet they get paid for that week?

I'm sure that your child's teachers can arrange this.

 

[Samson]

I understand that the composition was the "test" showing evidence of learning.

However, that was not done weekly, correct? Which is what Samson would like from his child's teachers...weekly graded items.

There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.

I don't know. It has been a LONG time now, but I can't remember a week in highschool that we didn't have either a pop quiz on our homework or that week's lectures or a major scheduled test. The scheduled tests counted more toward our grades of course than did the pop quizzes, but the quizzes did count. And knowing they could come at any time kept most of us doing our homework reading assignments, handing in written homework assignments, and paying attention in class.

As somebody suggested, we often just switched papers with a classmate and graded each other's papers as the teacher gave us the answers and then turned in the papers for the grades to be recorded. That saved the teachers a lot of time but it did keep some kind of accountability in place as to what we were absorbing and remembering.

Actually those are very hard to use. In any case in most schools today, one is forbidden to have another student grade another's paper.

I stand in awe of really good math teachers, I don't have the skills to teach that. But I will say, that when it comes to assessments, reinforcement, etc., they have it made. There are right and wrong answers, whatever the education departments in universities assert.

Yes, if I was teaching math, I could send home at least weekly, if not daily assessments of one sort or another. Science, close, but not quite. Hypothesis count, which may be wrong at the onset, but with commentary may be quite viable.

I agree, math is easiest to grade.

And, I also agree that having students grade other's work, on any meaningful level, is a waste of time if you're trying to measure learning.

However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.

Why the hell is this such a complicated thing? Are Math teachers the only ones imaginative enough to think of ways to frequently, and easily measure their teaching?

 

[Samson]

Unless your child is made to write an essay detailing their participation for the week.

What? Teach WRITING??? In English?

Sir, certainly, you jest.

I'd be tickled pink.

There are some classes that are structured not to produce weekly graded items...except perhaps for participation.

Why structure "not to produce weekly graded items?"

Why not structure to produce a SINGLE FUCKING PIECE OF EVIDENCE that SOMETHING was learned during an entire WEEK of learning??

How many professionals have the luxury of not needing to produce a single piece of evidence that they did anything for an entire week, yet they get paid for that week?

I'm sure that your child's teachers can arrange this.

I'll let you know, this Friday.

 

[xotoxi]

However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.

Were you still learning vocab in HS?

Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL

 

[xotoxi]

What? Teach WRITING??? In English?

Sir, certainly, you jest.

I'd be tickled pink.



Why structure "not to produce weekly graded items?"

Why not structure to produce a SINGLE FUCKING PIECE OF EVIDENCE that SOMETHING was learned during an entire WEEK of learning??

How many professionals have the luxury of not needing to produce a single piece of evidence that they did anything for an entire week, yet they get paid for that week?

I'm sure that your child's teachers can arrange this.

I'll let you know, this Friday.

Suggestion:

Why don't you take a piece of paper and write on the top of it "Dad, this is what I learned in class this week..."?

You give it to your kid, he brings it to school for the teacher to mimeograph, and then in each class, he needs to write a short (250-500 words) essay as to what he learned in each of his classes that week. The teacher would read it, and sign it if the child is correct in his assessment.

It could be like extra credit!

 

[Samson]

However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.

Were you still learning vocab in HS?

Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL

Really?

Have you seen the SAT test?

The SAT Reasoning Test is a long examination (three hours and forty-five minutes) and has three main divisions:

Math,
Reading and
Writing.
There are 10 sections in all - three for each division, and one 'equating' section. The equating section is used to assess questions for use in future tests. (It can be in any of the three areas and does not count toward the score).

Apart from a short essay and ten out of the 54 math questions, the questions are all five-answer multiple-choice. Each of the divisions has a maximum score of 800, giving a maximum overall score of 2400

Example:

7. inchoate

a) loose

b) implicit

c) chaotic

d) incomplete

e) beginner

 

[Samson]

I'm sure that your child's teachers can arrange this.

I'll let you know, this Friday.

Suggestion:

Why don't you take a piece of paper and write on the top of it "Dad, this is what I learned in class this week..."?

You give it to your kid, he brings it to school for the teacher to mimeograph, and then in each class, he needs to write a short (250-500 words) essay as to what he learned in each of his classes that week. The teacher would read it, and sign it if the child is correct in his assessment.

It could be like extra credit!

Not a bad idea. Thanks, this will be "Plan B"

 

[chanel]

Vocabulary is taught in every class at every level in our HS.

Samson - my students are required to keep a notebook for my class, and every assignment should be in there. I check it once a month and encourage them to show it to their folks. Many of the teachers at our school do the same. I'm surprised that none of your daughter's teachers do that. It keeps the kids organized and provides a true portfolio of their work.

 

[xotoxi]

7. inchoate

Is that anything like inphillipsexeter or inloomischaffee?

 

[xotoxi]

Vocabulary is taught in every class at every level in our HS.

Keyboarding class:

ENTER - the big key that you touch with your right pinky which makes all kinds of shit happen.

 

[Foxfyre]

However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.

Were you still learning vocab in HS?

Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL

Really?

Have you seen the SAT test?

The SAT Reasoning Test is a long examination (three hours and forty-five minutes) and has three main divisions:

Math,
Reading and
Writing.
There are 10 sections in all - three for each division, and one 'equating' section. The equating section is used to assess questions for use in future tests. (It can be in any of the three areas and does not count toward the score).

Apart from a short essay and ten out of the 54 math questions, the questions are all five-answer multiple-choice. Each of the divisions has a maximum score of 800, giving a maximum overall score of 2400

Example:

7. inchoate

a) loose

b) implicit

c) chaotic

d) incomplete

e) beginner

The problem with questions like this is that an abstract complex thinker could accurately see both (d) and (e) as acceptable answers. That is my ONLY concern with such tests in that they do not allow for more than the rote answer.

I had one really gifted teacher my senior year who recognized that and who allowed us to provide a brief explanation for marking two 'correct' answers on a multiple choice. If the explanation made sense to her, she gave us credit. If it was obvious we were just blowing smoke, we got scored two wrong answers for the one.

 

[Samson]

If your child is in a class where the students are discussing literature, and the grade is based on participation, what do you want the teacher to send home? A videotape of the class?

"Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.

So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.

You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?

I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.

Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?

Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.

 

[xotoxi]

However, I don't see why an English teacher, at any level, couldn't take 30 minutes out of the entire fucking week to give a goddamn vocabulary quiz, and every third week give a vocabulary test, comprised of the two previous quizzes.

Were you still learning vocab in HS?

Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL

Really?

Have you seen the SAT test?

The SAT Reasoning Test is a long examination (three hours and forty-five minutes) and has three main divisions:

Math,
Reading and
Writing.
There are 10 sections in all - three for each division, and one 'equating' section. The equating section is used to assess questions for use in future tests. (It can be in any of the three areas and does not count toward the score).

Apart from a short essay and ten out of the 54 math questions, the questions are all five-answer multiple-choice. Each of the divisions has a maximum score of 800, giving a maximum overall score of 2400

Example:

7. inchoate

a) loose

b) implicit

c) chaotic

d) incomplete

e) beginner

If you want my opinion on the SAT...it's not a good test to test knowledge. It's a great test to test test-taking.

 

[RadiomanATL]

Vocabulary is taught in every class at every level in our HS.

Keyboarding class:

ENTER - the big key that you touch with your right pinky which makes all kinds of shit happen.

 

[del]

"Discussing Literature" is not a measurable teaching objective, and if that's all the lesson plan contains, then don't be surprised when you graduate a bunch of babbling idiots.

So one is teaching the Civil War in Social Studies and also teaching Across Five Aprils in reading. You think there shouldn't be discussion? I did use exit cards on tying together what they learned from the novel with what they had learned in social studies. You want there 2 minute answers sent home to you? Probably couldn't read their writing, but I know what I've taught and whether or not the class is making the connections.

You'd rather I use a scantron about deaths during the Civil War?

I'm going to conclude you're being purposefully obtuse: I've already said several times, including in the post you quoted, that "discussion" is not THE ONLY THING, but PART OF, teaching.

Why is it that you cannot grasp that BOTH discussion AND a quiz is possible? Is it really all that of a completely foreign concept?

Yes, I do want their "2 minute answers" written. Legibly. And GRADED, although I know it would be much easier for you to imagine they've learned anything.

shouldn't that be *are*? as in both are possible?

yes, i think it should.

bring us a note from your english teacher before posting again, please. no wonder kids learn nothing if you're an exmple of those who teach.

 

[Samson]

Were you still learning vocab in HS?

Here's a word for ya: REMEDIAL

Really?

Have you seen the SAT test?

The SAT Reasoning Test is a long examination (three hours and forty-five minutes) and has three main divisions:

Math,
Reading and
Writing.
There are 10 sections in all - three for each division, and one 'equating' section. The equating section is used to assess questions for use in future tests. (It can be in any of the three areas and does not count toward the score).

Apart from a short essay and ten out of the 54 math questions, the questions are all five-answer multiple-choice. Each of the divisions has a maximum score of 800, giving a maximum overall score of 2400

Example:

7. inchoate

a) loose

b) implicit

c) chaotic

d) incomplete

e) beginner

If you want my opinion on the SAT...it's not a good test to test knowledge. It's a great test to test test-taking.

Are you on the Acceptance Committee for any University?

Until you are, then your (and my) opinion ain't worth squat.