...I just realized Lincoln was the Hitler of the 19th century.

[syrenn]

The Confederates were not fighting for government
of the people,
by the people,
for the people -- The only people they fought for were white Southerners.

of the people,
by the people,
for the people

Is part a speech Lincoln gave near towards the end of the civil war. He did not mean it about fighting the war but what the country as a whole. Lincoln vision of how the country should be.

There are fine distinctions that are being missed. The south was not fighting to keep slaves, even if that was the end result. The south was fighting for its right to govern its own individual state as it saw fit. A right given to each state in the not yet 100 year old constitution.

The government (the north) stood fast to the idea that all of the states were a union, a single whole, of which none could secede.

 

[syrenn]

The Southern way of live was an evil in American life, while blacks, jews, women, etc., fought the good fight. The South fought the bad fight, and it was right, proper, and justified that it was destroyed. Get over it, for true pride in Southern heritage does not include defending its role in the Civil War.

And there is where I think part the problem is. Everyone needs to get over it, including the blacks.

This is the year 2010 and everyone needs to take responsibility for their own lives now, today, and not use history as a crutch.

 

[syrenn]

We know he is a racist.

Because I refuse to blame the Evil White Man for all the world's ills?

No, because of your words here.
That, and your use of a vile racist slur to describe black people.

I don't actually think what he said here is a racist comment.

And they are not black people now, "black" is considered offensive now according to the latest PC, rules, they are african americans.

Now before you get all up in arms that im jumping you paperview im just stating a fact about the black part

 

[paperview]

Because I refuse to blame the Evil White Man for all the world's ills?

No, because of your words here.
That, and your use of a vile racist slur to describe black people.

I don't actually think what he said here is a racist comment.

And they are not black people now, "black" is considered offensive now according to the latest PC, rules, they are african americans.

Now before you get all up in arms that im jumping you paperview im just stating a fact about the black part

Bucky here refers to blacks, African Americans...whatever you want to call them - and has in this thread as - the n word.


Yes. It's a vile, racist slur.

You may not see it that way. I do.

 

[paperview]

The Confederates were not fighting for government
of the people,
by the people,
for the people -- The only people they fought for were white Southerners.

of the people,
by the people,
for the people

Is part a speech Lincoln gave near towards the end of the civil war. He did not mean it about fighting the war but what the country as a whole. Lincoln vision of how the country should be.

There are fine distinctions that are being missed. The south was not fighting to keep slaves, even if that was the end result. The south was fighting for its right to govern its own individual state as it saw fit. A right given to each state in the not yet 100 year old constitution.

Yes *yawn* -- for the 100th time, I know...they were fighting about States Rights.

The right to own human beings.

The government (the north) stood fast to the idea that all of the states were a union, a single whole, of which none could secede.

Yes, and the North delivered the answer to the secession question with a mind numbing Fuck no!

 

[JakeStarkey]

I agree that we all need to move past the Civil War, including black Americans, but I don't want us to forget it, or the fact that some are trying to revise it, such as QW and JB and KK, into something it certainly was not.

The use of the n-word is vile in any context, unless that context is the direct quoted material of the contemporaries of that age.

None of us have the right to use such words casually whatsoever, certainly not on this board.

 

[syrenn]

Bucky here refers to blacks, African Americans...whatever you want to call them - and has in this thread as - the n word.
Yes. It's a vile, racist slur.
You may not see it that way. I do.

Here is the thing. ******* call each other ******. So long as they call each other ****** it should not be considered offensive to anyone.

And please note that I have not called anyone that, or refereed to anyone here as that.

 

[jillian]

And there is where I think part the problem is. Everyone needs to get over it, including the blacks.

This is the year 2010 and everyone needs to take responsibility for their own lives now, today, and not use history as a crutch.

You might be right. On the other hand, the O/P analogized Lincoln with Hitler and other people have called the actions of the Union forces during the civil war - war criimes. Seems to me that there's only one group of people who need to get over it.

And they're the ones who still won't acknowledge that the civil war was about states' rights only to the extent that the 'states' in question wanted slavery to remain legal and didn't like those mean old northerners (substititute northern elites or whatever else you want to call it) making them stop owning people.

 

[syrenn]

I agree that we all need to move past the Civil War, including black Americans, but I don't want us to forget it, or the fact that some are trying to revise it, such as QW and JB and KK, into something it certainly was not.

What do you think? Have i got my facts straight and remember correctly?

 

[JakeStarkey]

I agree that we all need to move past the Civil War, including black Americans, but I don't want us to forget it, or the fact that some are trying to revise it, such as QW and JB and KK, into something it certainly was not.

What do you think? Have i got my facts straight and remember correctly?

I think so.

 

[syrenn]

And there is where I think part the problem is. Everyone needs to get over it, including the blacks.

This is the year 2010 and everyone needs to take responsibility for their own lives now, today, and not use history as a crutch.

You might be right. On the other hand, the O/P analogized Lincoln with Hitler and other people have called the actions of the Union forces during the civil war - war criimes. Seems to me that there's only one group of people who need to get over it.

And they're the ones who still won't acknowledge that the civil war was about states' rights only to the extent that the 'states' in question wanted slavery to remain legal and didn't like those mean old northerners (substititute northern elites or whatever else you want to call it) making them stop owning people.

The analogy is, sad to say correct. The civil war was responsible for killing more Americans citizens then any of the other wars combined. I would call that genocide wouldn't you?

Again, States rights were a right given under the Constitution. The south flexed that right. The Constitution does not stipulate what those rights individual states must or must not do, what they can and can not do.

 

[paperview]

Bucky here refers to blacks, African Americans...whatever you want to call them - and has in this thread as - the n word.
Yes. It's a vile, racist slur.
You may not see it that way. I do.

Here is the thing. ******* call each other ******. So long as they call each other ****** it should not be considered offensive to anyone.

And please note that I have not called anyone that, or refereed to anyone here as that.

Are you really serious?

So long as some black people call themselves that, it's OK for you or any one else to refer to them that way?

Wow.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bucky here refers to blacks, African Americans...whatever you want to call them - and has in this thread as - the n word.
Yes. It's a vile, racist slur.
You may not see it that way. I do.

Here is the thing. ******* call each other ******. So long as they call each other ****** it should not be considered offensive to anyone.

And please note that I have not called anyone that, or refereed to anyone here as that.

Are you really serious?

So long as some black people call themselves that, it's OK for you or any one else to refer to them that way?

Wow.

Syrenn, civilized people don't use the word. It doesn't matter what other people do. For example: "Well, Johnny raped her, too!" Excuse the crudity, but your argument does not sit well with me.

 

[paperview]

Here is the thing. ******* call each other ******. So long as they call each other ****** it should not be considered offensive to anyone.

And please note that I have not called anyone that, or refereed to anyone here as that.

Are you really serious?

So long as some black people call themselves that, it's OK for you or any one else to refer to them that way?

Wow.

Syrenn, civilized people don't use the word. It doesn't matter what other people do. For example: "Well, Johnny raped her, too!" Excuse the crudity, but your argument does not sit well with me.

I dare her to walk up to a group of black folks and call them that.

You & I know she wouldn't. And she knows why she wouldn't.

How she can possibly justify it and think it is not offensive is beyond my comprehension.

 

[jillian]

The analogy is, sad to say correct. The civil war was responsible for killing more Americans citizens then any of the other wars combined. I would call that genocide wouldn't you?

Again, States rights were a right given under the Constitution. The south flexed that right. The Constitution does not stipulate what those rights individual states must or must not do, what they can and can not do.

The analogy isn't correct. And the reason that the civil war killed more american citizens is because BOTH SIDES WERE AMERICAN.

Genocide is specifically wiping out a race or group of people. That wasn't it. We don't know each other yet, but I can tell you that I have real issues with people misusing terms like that simply to achieve a visceral response. Genocide has specific meanings.

As I said, the specific states' right in question was the ownership of human beings. If States were supposed to have the type of rights that you imply, we'd still be living under the Articles of Confederation.

 

[syrenn]

Are you really serious?
So long as some black people call themselves that, it's OK for you or any one else to refer to them that way?
Wow.

I am really serious, yes. If I choose to, yes. So long as the black population does not condemn their own from calling each other that, and until that day comes when they stop calling each other that, the word should not be considered offensive.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The word is patently offensive. Period.

 

[JBeukema]

No, because of your words here.
That, and your use of a vile racist slur to describe black people.

Did you not receive your latest census form?

Wait, I get it now- Obama's a white supremacist!

You used much worse than the term "Negro" - that word means black. It is not racist.

You know the slur you've used here - and it is despicable.

Do cite where I called anyone by a 'slur'.

I suspect you're going to try to link to somewhere I explained the thinking of another party, and I look forward to you demonstrating your lack of reading comprehension yet again.

 

[paperview]

Are you really serious?
So long as some black people call themselves that, it's OK for you or any one else to refer to them that way?
Wow.

I am really serious, yes. If I choose to, yes. So long as the black population does not condemn their own from calling each other that, and until that day comes when they stop calling each other that, the word should not be considered offensive.

I can only conclude you are one of two things: Very young or very stupid.

I don't think you're either.

That leaves one other option.

 

[JBeukema]

JB, on the other hand, is grounded in the dynamics of race,

-says the guy who blames all the evil White people for all the world's problems and tells people there skin colour is a crime of which they are guilty