I may have gotten the impeachment thing all wrong

[martybegan]

I am being honest. you are hiding behind the false curtain of neutrality.

No one is truly neutral, and those who claim to be are either lying to themselves, lying to others, or both.

ok then consider me a non-neutral player, I’m fine with that. I think the Dems are idiots and I’m still going to say things about that, but go ahead and ignore those comments and consider me as a biased actor promoting an opposing position to yourself... ok, we good now?

Fine. Why should Republicans play fair now when Dems did not during the actual impeachment process/voting?

Why should they play fair? That’s easy, because that’s what honorable people do. You do what’s right not what your opponents are doing... if you act like them then you are no better than they are

Sorry, but in a situation this important and this serious, "dying with your boots on" isn't honorable, it's retarded.

The other side will show no respect for the corpse, the people will not visit the grave, which will hold the marker "They got their asses kicked, but at least they were fair about it"

There was a time when right beat wrong and truth beat lies, and integrity beat manipulation. I still believe that can be true.

Sorry, but bullshit. You are looking at the world via movie lenses, not reality.

 

[Ame®icano]

Yes I recognize that the house inquiry was biased towards the Dems and they unfairly blocked out the Republican from presenting their counter narrative. It’s irrelevant whether I voice that or not back then. I don’t want this to be a personal hypocrisy debate, I’m tired of those.

Dems said they were following the same hearing rules in the House that Reps were using earlier. If so, Reps have no right to complain about the rules, and they are not complaining about hearing rules. They're complaining about not following House rules, about "star chamber", not having access to depositions and witnesses, and not having Minority day hearings. Those are all new things that Dems came up with in order to suppress Reps, and to support their narrative.

I didn’t say I thought McConnells rules were bad behavior, I think if they follow through with blocking of witnesses and documents as many have publicly stated then there will be a public appearance of a dirty cover up. That result would be bad behavior of that’s what happens. IMO

There is no IF they follow thru. They ARE following the same rules used in Clinton impeachment, which means they will hear House case and all the evidence House used to impeach the President and make decision based on that. If there was enough evidence for Impeachment in the House to file Articles, and House claim there is "overwhelming evidence", then there is no point of whining that Senate is blocking witnesses. House acts like they have a case, let's hear the case. House wants to change the rules, Senate says you don't make the rules, we're using the same rules used for Clinton impeachment.

I had originally thought that they would take advantage of this trial to roast Biden. Some are trying to push that narrative and that very well may be where they go. Either way I don’t see either party coming out of this thing looking better and our nation will be weaker as a whole.

I was hoping we'll hear from all witnesses that House couldn't or refused to bring in. Again, senate job is not to investigate, but to try based on evidence used for impeachment. If House wanted more evidence, they should have follow the procedure, wait for courts to make decision, and not try to force Senate to do their job.

 

[Slade3200]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Odd that you could determine all that being that in the past two days, it has all been 90% Schiff repeating all the same crap. I mean, the guy lies every 10-20 seconds! And he had 24 hours just for his opening statement! Not interested in finding the truth? C'Mon. The Democrats IMPEACHED the president. They said they HAD the truth. Schiff said for years he had conclusive proof Trump worked with the Russians.

Turned out that wasn't true.

Then Schiff put up testimony and transcripts that had been falsified.

IMO, the guy has no business being on the case.

The Republicans have all ears open now: it is up to the House to PRESENT THEIR CASE that they found justifiable in impeaching the President. It was the House's job to have already FOUND the truth. If the Democrats are still trying to find them, then that is saying they still have not and never had any case.

The Dems are presenting their case. They would like to use the senates subpoena power to call witnesses that actually should help trump if all was done legally. What’s the problem with that? Are you not interested in what the first handers have to say?

The House has the same subpoena power. They chose not to use it. Instead of letting the Courts work it out, they went ahead with Art. II, which in fact, impeaches Trump for exercising his individual rights. I'm not buying the smoke screen. There are no crimes here. At worse, it is mere policy and privilege. Perhaps some political malfeasance. Obama did worse. Worse still is the corruption which Trump says he was in search of-- -- -- why is this central matter being shoveled under the rug? Especially when the Dems maintain he was out purely to hurt an opponent? If it can be shown the corruption didn't exist, THAT would prove their case. If the corruption really was there, it supports Trump's case! Why is this not central?

WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER: Because the answer would be an embarrassment to BOTH sides and the US government, as usual, always with a dirty hand.

The House chose to find Trump "forever impeached" based on what they had, so why now DO THEY NEED MORE? Impeached is Impeached. House, present your grounds, your evidence for that decision. Shit or get off the pot. Tired of the games.

I agree with you... all Trump needs to do is show what evidence he had to push for an investigation by Ukraine into the DNC and Biden and explain why he didn’t go through normal investigative channels.

Trumps team seems to want to call hunter to the stand... for what? What would they ask him? He knows nothing about these charges. If Trump has valid evidence to call Ukraine for an investigations then what is it?

 

[S.J.]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

IOW you're upset because the defendant won't take on the role of the prosecutor since they're unable to make their case. If you were on trial would you expect your attorney to help the other side convict you?

not at all... how am I asking for the defendant to be the prosecutor?!

By asking them to call witnesses you declined to call yourselves. Let me ask my question another way. If you were on trial, and the prosecutor fucked up his case against you, would you fix it for him?

 

[The Original Tree]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

IOW you're upset because the defendant won't take on the role of the prosecutor since they're unable to make their case. If you were on trial would you expect your attorney to help the other side convict you?

not at all... how am I asking for the defendant to be the prosecutor?!

By asking them to call witnesses you declined to call yourselves. Let me ask my question another way. If you were on trial, and the prosecutor fucked up his case against you, would you fix it for him?

Wouldn't America like to know why Obama spent so much money in The Ukraine to stop an Anti Corruption Government from being elected?

Wouldn't America like to know how The State Department laundered $7 Billion through the Ukraine Embassy during the Ukraine elections and The Ukraine Embassy nor The State Department can account for where it went?

I bet they'd also like to know why The Ukraine Embassy was working with The Clinton Campaign & Obama on this, and why John Brennan, Joe Biden, John Kerry, Manafort, Gage and Podesta worked on stopping The Anti Corruption Government from being elected in the Ukraine.

Wouldn't America want to know why James Comey and Bob Mueller gave Blanket Immunity to The Clinton Campaign and The Entire Podesta Group and No one Else during their investigations? And wouldn't America want to know why Obama sealed all such related records to his activities and those of his staff in The Ukraine by exerting Executive Privilege?

They would probably also like to know why Obama ordered Joe Biden to extort Ukraine to get The Ukraine Prosecutor fired, before he could uncover a money laundering and bribery scheme at Burisma which lead right back to Vladimir Putin.

Don't you now want to know why Joe Biden says he is refusing to testify even if subpoenaed, and why Hunter Biden is being Ordered to Appear in Front of a Judge to answer for his Refusing to Comply with Court Orders to Submit his Financial Records in his child support case? Especially since Hunter is refusing to turn over records of his Burisma income?

Nah, Nothing Fishy There.....AT ALL.

 

[Ame®icano]

If Dems think there is more evidence, they should have waited for court to decide if they have right to access it. Now, is their current evidence "convincing" its up to the Senate to decide. I don't think it's convincing, since they're asking, rather demanding from Senate, to investigate, which is not their job.

I think that’s a BS argument. Obama’s fast and furious court case over documents lasted 7 years. Are you really supporting a presidents right to completely stonewall congressional subpoenas until years of court proceedings can make a decision?! You don’t see something horribly wrong with that?

Didn't you say earlier "I don’t excuse bad behavior from bad behavior."

But that is exactly what you're doing now. Why is OK to wait for Fast & Furious documents to be stonewalled, and not these? The world is not revolving around Dems, and they have to play by the same rules as everyone.

To answer your question, I don't support stonewalling, I support the same rules for everyone. Dems seems can't accept to follow the rules they set themselves.

 

[The Original Tree]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Odd that you could determine all that being that in the past two days, it has all been 90% Schiff repeating all the same crap. I mean, the guy lies every 10-20 seconds! And he had 24 hours just for his opening statement! Not interested in finding the truth? C'Mon. The Democrats IMPEACHED the president. They said they HAD the truth. Schiff said for years he had conclusive proof Trump worked with the Russians.

Turned out that wasn't true.

Then Schiff put up testimony and transcripts that had been falsified.

IMO, the guy has no business being on the case.

The Republicans have all ears open now: it is up to the House to PRESENT THEIR CASE that they found justifiable in impeaching the President. It was the House's job to have already FOUND the truth. If the Democrats are still trying to find them, then that is saying they still have not and never had any case.

The Dems are presenting their case. They would like to use the senates subpoena power to call witnesses that actually should help trump if all was done legally. What’s the problem with that? Are you not interested in what the first handers have to say?

The House has the same subpoena power. They chose not to use it. Instead of letting the Courts work it out, they went ahead with Art. II, which in fact, impeaches Trump for exercising his individual rights. I'm not buying the smoke screen. There are no crimes here. At worse, it is mere policy and privilege. Perhaps some political malfeasance. Obama did worse. Worse still is the corruption which Trump says he was in search of-- -- -- why is this central matter being shoveled under the rug? Especially when the Dems maintain he was out purely to hurt an opponent? If it can be shown the corruption didn't exist, THAT would prove their case. If the corruption really was there, it supports Trump's case! Why is this not central?

WE ALL KNOW THE ANSWER: Because the answer would be an embarrassment to BOTH sides and the US government, as usual, always with a dirty hand.

The House chose to find Trump "forever impeached" based on what they had, so why now DO THEY NEED MORE? Impeached is Impeached. House, present your grounds, your evidence for that decision. Shit or get off the pot. Tired of the games.

I agree with you... all Trump needs to do is show what evidence he had to push for an investigation by Ukraine into the DNC and Biden and explain why he didn’t go through normal investigative channels.

Trumps team seems to want to call hunter to the stand... for what? What would they ask him? He knows nothing about these charges. If Trump has valid evidence to call Ukraine for an investigations then what is it?

Joe and Hunter Biden were smack dab in a three way money laundering & bribery scheme between Russia, Burisma and the Corrupt Government of Ukraine which The Obama Administration was trying to prop up.

 

[S.J.]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

IOW you're upset because the defendant won't take on the role of the prosecutor since they're unable to make their case. If you were on trial would you expect your attorney to help the other side convict you?

not at all... how am I asking for the defendant to be the prosecutor?!

By asking them to call witnesses you declined to call yourselves. Let me ask my question another way. If you were on trial, and the prosecutor fucked up his case against you, would you fix it for him?

Wouldn't America like to know why Obama spent so much money in The Ukraine to stop an Anti Corruption Government from being elected?

Wouldn't America like to know how The State Department laundered $7 Billion through the Ukraine Embassy during the Ukraine elections and The Ukraine Embassy nor The State Department can account for where it went?

I bet they'd also like to know why The Ukraine Embassy was working with The Clinton Campaign & Obama on this, and why John Brennan, Joe Biden, John Kerry, Manafort, Gage and Podesta worked on stopping The Anti Corruption Government from being elected in the Ukraine.

They would probably also like to know why Obama ordered Joe Biden to extort Ukraine to get The Ukraine Prosecutor fired, before he could uncover a money laundering and bribery scheme at Burisma which lead right back to Vladimir Putin.

Don't you now want to know why Joe Biden says he is refusing to testify even if subpoenaed, and why Hunter Biden is being Ordered to Appear in Front of a Judge to answer for his Refusing to Comply with Court Orders to Submit his Financial Records in his child support case? Especially since Hunter is refusing to turn over records of his Burisma income?

Nah, Nothing Fishy There.....AT ALL.

Yes.

 

[Slade3200]

Yes I recognize that the house inquiry was biased towards the Dems and they unfairly blocked out the Republican from presenting their counter narrative. It’s irrelevant whether I voice that or not back then. I don’t want this to be a personal hypocrisy debate, I’m tired of those.

Dems said they were following the same hearing rules in the House that Reps were using earlier. If so, Reps have no right to complain about the rules, and they are not complaining about hearing rules. They're complaining about not following House rules, about "star chamber", not having access to depositions and witnesses, and not having Minority day hearings. Those are all new things that Dems came up with in order to suppress Reps, and to support their narrative.

I didn’t say I thought McConnells rules were bad behavior, I think if they follow through with blocking of witnesses and documents as many have publicly stated then there will be a public appearance of a dirty cover up. That result would be bad behavior of that’s what happens. IMO

There is no IF they follow thru. They ARE following the same rules used in Clinton impeachment, which means they will hear House case and all the evidence House used to impeach the President and make decision based on that. If there was enough evidence for Impeachment in the House to file Articles, and House claim there is "overwhelming evidence", then there is no point of whining that Senate is blocking witnesses. House acts like they have a case, let's hear the case. House wants to change the rules, Senate says you don't make the rules, we're using the same rules used for Clinton impeachment.

I had originally thought that they would take advantage of this trial to roast Biden. Some are trying to push that narrative and that very well may be where they go. Either way I don’t see either party coming out of this thing looking better and our nation will be weaker as a whole.

I was hoping we'll hear from all witnesses that House couldn't or refused to bring in. Again, senate job is not to investigate, but to try based on evidence used for impeachment. If House wanted more evidence, they should have follow the procedure, wait for courts to make decision, and not try to force Senate to do their job.

yes, house dems broke away from what happened I. The Clinton case to block the Reps. That was wrong. That also doesn’t excuse the Reps to do the same in the senate.

I’m not calling on the senate to investigate anything. It would be great and I think right, to allow the Dems to present documents and witness testimony that trump blocked them from getting in the house as long as it is relevant to the case. If Trump is clean, all these things should help him. Then again if these things would help him then he probably wouldnt be hiding them... right?

 

[AntonToo]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Odd that you could determine all that being that in the past two days, it has all been 90% Schiff repeating all the same crap. I mean, the guy lies every 10-20 seconds! And he had 24 hours just for his opening statement! Not interested in finding the truth? C'Mon. The Democrats IMPEACHED the president. They said they HAD the truth. Schiff said for years he had conclusive proof Trump worked with the Russians.

Turned out that wasn't true.

Then Schiff put up testimony and transcripts that had been falsified.

IMO, the guy has no business being on the case.

The Republicans have all ears open now: it is up to the House to PRESENT THEIR CASE that they found justifiable in impeaching the President. It was the House's job to have already FOUND the truth. If the Democrats are still trying to find them, then that is saying they still have not and never had any case.

The Dems are presenting their case. They would like to use the senates subpoena power to call witnesses that actually should help trump if all was done legally. What’s the problem with that? Are you not interested in what the first handers have to say?

The House has the same subpoena power.

They aren't the same, and they did USE IT *gasp*.

 

[AntonToo]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Odd that you could determine all that being that in the past two days, it has all been 90% Schiff repeating all the same crap. I mean, the guy lies every 10-20 seconds! And he had 24 hours just for his opening statement! Not interested in finding the truth? C'Mon. The Democrats IMPEACHED the president. They said they HAD the truth. Schiff said for years he had conclusive proof Trump worked with the Russians.

Turned out that wasn't true.

Then Schiff put up testimony and transcripts that had been falsified.

IMO, the guy has no business being on the case.

The Republicans have all ears open now: it is up to the House to PRESENT THEIR CASE that they found justifiable in impeaching the President. It was the House's job to have already FOUND the truth. If the Democrats are still trying to find them, then that is saying they still have not and never had any case.

The Dems are presenting their case. They would like to use the senates subpoena power to call witnesses that actually should help trump if all was done legally. What’s the problem with that? Are you not interested in what the first handers have to say?

The House Clowns don't need the subpoena power of the Senate, they have their own. There is no difference between the two.

Yes there is. Senate has an actual power to detain.

 

[Ame®icano]

That sounds really groovy to the thoroughly programmed, but it's nonsense.

1. Trump didn't abuse power.
2. Even if he did, it's not "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors".

If anyone is abusing power in this situation, it's the Legislative Dems.

You asserting that Trump did nothing is wrong is nice and all, but of course that is not what the evidence and Trump's indictment says.

What you assert is not a serious alternative to a proper TRIAL.

"evidence"

LOL

Is it overwhelming?

It's sufficient, convincing and uncontested. Sadly, that won't have anything to do with the way Senators will vote.

It's sufficient and convincing only to those who are trying to get Trump out of office since the day he was elected. Uncontested? I don't think so.

Please explain, what would be the point of Trump asking for dirt against Biden when Biden himself boasted before the Council on Foreign Relations that he had forced the Ukrainian President to fire the prosecutor or forfeit $1 billion?

That is common knowledge. Why should Trump have to pay Ukraine for it?

Vice President Biden’s clear, open admission that he did what Democrats falsely accuse Trump of doing is total proof of the utter corruption of the Democratic Party.

The Dems basically impeached Trump for looking into Biden's (and by extension Obama's) documented corruption.

Exactly.

Now, let’s suppose the Democrats are correct in order to see how inconsequential and commonplace the charge against Trump would be even if true. The US government has historically always, and is forever telling foreign governments to do this or that or you won’t get any money. This is the commonplace behavior of the United States in its foreign policy, which is not based on normal diplomacy but on bribes, sanctions, threats, and, if the country does not comply, we use bombings and invasions.

Trump did not tell Ukraine that he was going to sanction, bomb, or invade if Ukraine did not reopen an investigation that was closed entirely on the basis of Biden’s threat to withhold US aid money. If anyone should be facing a charge, it is Biden.

 

[AntonToo]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

Odd that you could determine all that being that in the past two days, it has all been 90% Schiff repeating all the same crap. I mean, the guy lies every 10-20 seconds! And he had 24 hours just for his opening statement! Not interested in finding the truth? C'Mon. The Democrats IMPEACHED the president. They said they HAD the truth. Schiff said for years he had conclusive proof Trump worked with the Russians.

Turned out that wasn't true.

Then Schiff put up testimony and transcripts that had been falsified.

IMO, the guy has no business being on the case.

The Republicans have all ears open now: it is up to the House to PRESENT THEIR CASE that they found justifiable in impeaching the President. It was the House's job to have already FOUND the truth. If the Democrats are still trying to find them, then that is saying they still have not and never had any case.

The Dems are presenting their case. They would like to use the senates subpoena power to call witnesses that actually should help trump if all was done legally. What’s the problem with that? Are you not interested in what the first handers have to say?

The House has the same subpoena power. They chose not to use it. Instead of letting the Courts work it out, they went ahead with Art. II, which in fact, impeaches Trump for exercising his individual rights. I'm not buying the smoke screen. There are no crimes here. At worse, it is mere policy and privileged. Perhaps some political malfeasance. Obama did worse. The House chose to find Trump "forever impeached" based on what they had, so why now DO THEY NEED MORE? Impeached is Impeached. House, present your grounds, your evidence for that decision. Shit or get off the pot. Tired of the games.

Trump's team will hammer this home when it is their turn. The House Clowns will be exposed as the incompetent hacks they are.

Obviously you didn't listen to whats been going down for over two days now.

Trump's team look like they part-time play lawyers on TV, compared to the heavy dose of facts Democrats hit them and their half-baked arguments upside the head with.

 

[The Original Tree]

I’ve been pretty outspoken on how bad of an idea I thought this impeachment move would be for our government and our country. I saw the transition from the House to the Republican controlled Senate bringing a change in focus from Trumps actions to Biden corruption. It doesn’t appear that the Republicans are taking that route. I’ve seen the conservative media blitz working overtime on Biden corruption trying to shine the spotlight on that narrative, that tactic is in full swing, but in the capitol it looks like a race to dismissal.

It was rather astonishing to listen to the Republicans dismiss amendment after amendment after clear documentation and witnesses were presented that would add direct supporting material to the accusations.

It is very clear that the Republicans are not interested in finding the truth, seeing the facts, or even allowing the Dems to use the facts to present their case. They seem to just want to defend the president and dismiss the case. It stinks to high heaven and coming from somebody who doesn’t think Trump should be impeached I will say this path that Trump and the Reps are going down is looking more and more like a dirty cover up. When I first heard the Dems use that term it sounded like political hyperbole... After day 1 it’s sounding pretty spot on

IOW you're upset because the defendant won't take on the role of the prosecutor since they're unable to make their case. If you were on trial would you expect your attorney to help the other side convict you?

not at all... how am I asking for the defendant to be the prosecutor?!

By asking them to call witnesses you declined to call yourselves. Let me ask my question another way. If you were on trial, and the prosecutor fucked up his case against you, would you fix it for him?

Wouldn't America like to know why Obama spent so much money in The Ukraine to stop an Anti Corruption Government from being elected?

Wouldn't America like to know how The State Department laundered $7 Billion through the Ukraine Embassy during the Ukraine elections and The Ukraine Embassy nor The State Department can account for where it went?

I bet they'd also like to know why The Ukraine Embassy was working with The Clinton Campaign & Obama on this, and why John Brennan, Joe Biden, John Kerry, Manafort, Gage and Podesta worked on stopping The Anti Corruption Government from being elected in the Ukraine.

They would probably also like to know why Obama ordered Joe Biden to extort Ukraine to get The Ukraine Prosecutor fired, before he could uncover a money laundering and bribery scheme at Burisma which lead right back to Vladimir Putin.

Don't you now want to know why Joe Biden says he is refusing to testify even if subpoenaed, and why Hunter Biden is being Ordered to Appear in Front of a Judge to answer for his Refusing to Comply with Court Orders to Submit his Financial Records in his child support case? Especially since Hunter is refusing to turn over records of his Burisma income?

Nah, Nothing Fishy There.....AT ALL.

Yes.

BTW, Obama sealed all records by exerting Executive Privilege regarding his administration's activities in The Ukraine when they were actively involved in preventing the Anti-Corruption Government there from being elected.

 

[boedicca]

You asserting that Trump did nothing is wrong is nice and all, but of course that is not what the evidence and Trump's indictment says.

What you assert is not a serious alternative to a proper TRIAL.

"evidence"

LOL

Is it overwhelming?

It's sufficient, convincing and uncontested. Sadly, that won't have anything to do with the way Senators will vote.

It's sufficient and convincing only to those who are trying to get Trump out of office since the day he was elected. Uncontested? I don't think so.

Please explain, what would be the point of Trump asking for dirt against Biden when Biden himself boasted before the Council on Foreign Relations that he had forced the Ukrainian President to fire the prosecutor or forfeit $1 billion?

That is common knowledge. Why should Trump have to pay Ukraine for it?

Vice President Biden’s clear, open admission that he did what Democrats falsely accuse Trump of doing is total proof of the utter corruption of the Democratic Party.

The Dems basically impeached Trump for looking into Biden's (and by extension Obama's) documented corruption.

Exactly.

Now, let’s suppose the Democrats are correct in order to see how inconsequential and commonplace the charge against Trump would be even if true. The US government has historically always, and is forever telling foreign governments to do this or that or you won’t get any money. This is the commonplace behavior of the United States in its foreign policy, which is not based on normal diplomacy but on bribes, sanctions, threats, and, if the country does not comply, we use bombings and invasions.

Trump did not tell Ukraine that he was going to sanction, bomb, or invade if Ukraine did not reopen an investigation that was closed entirely on the basis of Biden’s threat to withhold US aid money. If anyone should be facing a charge, it is Biden.

This is why issues of Executive Privilege vs. Legislative Oversight are should be addressed by the Supreme Court - not used to gin up a fake Obstruction of Congress charge.

 

[AntonToo]

"evidence"

LOL

Is it overwhelming?

It's sufficient, convincing and uncontested. Sadly, that won't have anything to do with the way Senators will vote.

It's sufficient and convincing only to those who are trying to get Trump out of office since the day he was elected. Uncontested? I don't think so.

Please explain, what would be the point of Trump asking for dirt against Biden when Biden himself boasted before the Council on Foreign Relations that he had forced the Ukrainian President to fire the prosecutor or forfeit $1 billion?

That is common knowledge. Why should Trump have to pay Ukraine for it?

Vice President Biden’s clear, open admission that he did what Democrats falsely accuse Trump of doing is total proof of the utter corruption of the Democratic Party.

The Dems basically impeached Trump for looking into Biden's (and by extension Obama's) documented corruption.

Exactly.

Now, let’s suppose the Democrats are correct in order to see how inconsequential and commonplace the charge against Trump would be even if true. The US government has historically always, and is forever telling foreign governments to do this or that or you won’t get any money. This is the commonplace behavior of the United States in its foreign policy, which is not based on normal diplomacy but on bribes, sanctions, threats, and, if the country does not comply, we use bombings and invasions.

Trump did not tell Ukraine that he was going to sanction, bomb, or invade if Ukraine did not reopen an investigation that was closed entirely on the basis of Biden’s threat to withhold US aid money. If anyone should be facing a charge, it is Biden.

This is why issues of Executive Privilege vs. Legislative Oversight are should be addressed by the Supreme Court - not used to gin up a fake Obstruction of Congress charge.

THERE HAVE BEEN NO EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE CLAIMS.

 

[Nostra]

Holy shit! This woman is talking about polls between Biden and Trump?

Are they impeaching Trump because they found a poll showing Biden ahead of Trump?

What a Schitt show.

 

[Nostra]

It's sufficient, convincing and uncontested. Sadly, that won't have anything to do with the way Senators will vote.

It's sufficient and convincing only to those who are trying to get Trump out of office since the day he was elected. Uncontested? I don't think so.

Please explain, what would be the point of Trump asking for dirt against Biden when Biden himself boasted before the Council on Foreign Relations that he had forced the Ukrainian President to fire the prosecutor or forfeit $1 billion?

That is common knowledge. Why should Trump have to pay Ukraine for it?

Vice President Biden’s clear, open admission that he did what Democrats falsely accuse Trump of doing is total proof of the utter corruption of the Democratic Party.

The Dems basically impeached Trump for looking into Biden's (and by extension Obama's) documented corruption.

Exactly.

Now, let’s suppose the Democrats are correct in order to see how inconsequential and commonplace the charge against Trump would be even if true. The US government has historically always, and is forever telling foreign governments to do this or that or you won’t get any money. This is the commonplace behavior of the United States in its foreign policy, which is not based on normal diplomacy but on bribes, sanctions, threats, and, if the country does not comply, we use bombings and invasions.

Trump did not tell Ukraine that he was going to sanction, bomb, or invade if Ukraine did not reopen an investigation that was closed entirely on the basis of Biden’s threat to withhold US aid money. If anyone should be facing a charge, it is Biden.

This is why issues of Executive Privilege vs. Legislative Oversight are should be addressed by the Supreme Court - not used to gin up a fake Obstruction of Congress charge.

THERE HAVE BEEN NO EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE CLAIMS.

So?

 

[boedicca]

It's sufficient, convincing and uncontested. Sadly, that won't have anything to do with the way Senators will vote.

It's sufficient and convincing only to those who are trying to get Trump out of office since the day he was elected. Uncontested? I don't think so.

Please explain, what would be the point of Trump asking for dirt against Biden when Biden himself boasted before the Council on Foreign Relations that he had forced the Ukrainian President to fire the prosecutor or forfeit $1 billion?

That is common knowledge. Why should Trump have to pay Ukraine for it?

Vice President Biden’s clear, open admission that he did what Democrats falsely accuse Trump of doing is total proof of the utter corruption of the Democratic Party.

The Dems basically impeached Trump for looking into Biden's (and by extension Obama's) documented corruption.

Exactly.

Now, let’s suppose the Democrats are correct in order to see how inconsequential and commonplace the charge against Trump would be even if true. The US government has historically always, and is forever telling foreign governments to do this or that or you won’t get any money. This is the commonplace behavior of the United States in its foreign policy, which is not based on normal diplomacy but on bribes, sanctions, threats, and, if the country does not comply, we use bombings and invasions.

Trump did not tell Ukraine that he was going to sanction, bomb, or invade if Ukraine did not reopen an investigation that was closed entirely on the basis of Biden’s threat to withhold US aid money. If anyone should be facing a charge, it is Biden.

This is why issues of Executive Privilege vs. Legislative Oversight are should be addressed by the Supreme Court - not used to gin up a fake Obstruction of Congress charge.

THERE HAVE BEEN NO EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE CLAIMS.

The House didn't issue valid subpoenas to cause Trump to make a formal claim. But his actions and conversations are protected by Executive Privilege nevertheless.

 

[Ame®icano]

That sounds really groovy to the thoroughly programmed, but it's nonsense.

1. Trump didn't abuse power.
2. Even if he did, it's not "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors".

If anyone is abusing power in this situation, it's the Legislative Dems.

You asserting that Trump did nothing is wrong is nice and all, but of course that is not what the evidence and Trump's indictment says.

What you assert is not a serious alternative to a proper TRIAL.

"evidence"

LOL

Is it overwhelming?

Yes evidence Moron, a mountain of evidence.

Then you have no reason to ask Senate to do House's job and investigate. You have mountain of evidence, shitstain.

Who is asking the senate to investigate? Where are you getting this talking point from?

House is asking Senate to subpoena witnesses and documents they were able to subpoena themselves during their investigation. Instead of waiting for courts, they decided to file Articles and have Senate subpoena witnesses and documents, i.e. to investigate. That is not Senate's job, and although Senate can do it, if they find it necessary.