I think medical and basic food should be a right

[Toddsterpatriot]

They hate civilization and what they really want is for the top 5% to have it all and everyone else can be damned.

No public services
No help
No infrastructure for all
No nothing

These liberterians wouldn't be happy until the poor are thrown into ghettos to die. They'd probably force a caste like system on populations with the rich being the only ones allowed to do most things, while the poor would be extremely limited.

The funny part is that most of them would end up destitute too. These people are not the top wealthy 10 percent. They depend on social services too, whether it is education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on. Those are all services for everyone, paid with our taxes. Without those things, we would be a third world country, and Trump is trying to do away with many of them.

Trump is trying to do away with many of them.

Trump is trying to do away with, "education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on"?

Link?

He's cutting heathcare, he's cutting funding to EPA.
"President Trump's 2018 budget, released Tuesday, proposes balancing the budget by cutting $1.74 trillion from social safety net programs and Medicaid and overhauling the tax code and regulatory framework, and it sets an economic growth target of three percent.

The plan, titled "The New Foundation for American Greatness," includes a total of $3.6 trillion in spending cuts to reach a balanced budget within 10 years, reducing the debt from its current 77 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) to 60 percent of GDP, and wiping out deficit spending entirely in a decade. The budget book devotes two pages to an outline of how the Obama administration caused massive inflation of the national debt and created economic stagnation.

The President's first major budget proposal, which assumes the Medicaid savings in the Affordable Health Care Act (AHCA) will be passed, would make $800 billion in cuts to Medicaid over the next decade.

Programs like food stamps (SNAP), Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI), and Temporary Assistance for Needy families (TANF) will face sharp cuts." Trump budget proposal has massive cuts to social programs

Thanks.

Thanks for admitting you lied about Trump trying to do away with, "education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on".

Dude try not trying to lie about what people post. If you have no argument stay quiet

Dude, she made a really stupid fucking claim.
She posted links which failed to prove her stupid fucking claim.

 

[Anathema]

GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE. Article I, section 8 of the U. S. Constitution grants Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general Welfare of the United States."

Look at the four words I bolded in your quote... "of the United States". Not of the Citizens or the States or the People. If your way of looking at it was correct, where is my personal US Marine to provide for my Common Defense?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I think boob jobs and free pizza and beer should be a right

Quality boob jobs, anyway.

 

[Esmeralda]

The funny part is that most of them would end up destitute too. These people are not the top wealthy 10 percent. They depend on social services too, whether it is education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on. Those are all services for everyone, paid with our taxes. Without those things, we would be a third world country, and Trump is trying to do away with many of them.

Trump is trying to do away with many of them.

Trump is trying to do away with, "education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on"?

Link?

He's cutting heathcare, he's cutting funding to EPA.
"President Trump's 2018 budget, released Tuesday, proposes balancing the budget by cutting $1.74 trillion from social safety net programs and Medicaid and overhauling the tax code and regulatory framework, and it sets an economic growth target of three percent.

The plan, titled "The New Foundation for American Greatness," includes a total of $3.6 trillion in spending cuts to reach a balanced budget within 10 years, reducing the debt from its current 77 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) to 60 percent of GDP, and wiping out deficit spending entirely in a decade. The budget book devotes two pages to an outline of how the Obama administration caused massive inflation of the national debt and created economic stagnation.

The President's first major budget proposal, which assumes the Medicaid savings in the Affordable Health Care Act (AHCA) will be passed, would make $800 billion in cuts to Medicaid over the next decade.

Programs like food stamps (SNAP), Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI), and Temporary Assistance for Needy families (TANF) will face sharp cuts." Trump budget proposal has massive cuts to social programs

Thanks.

Thanks for admitting you lied about Trump trying to do away with, "education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on".

Dude try not trying to lie about what people post. If you have no argument stay quiet

Dude, she made a really stupid fucking claim.
She posted links which failed to prove her stupid fucking claim.

That's not true. I posted links that prove my claim. I didn't say all, I said many. I suspect you didn't read through all 40 some bills he signed because you are too intellectually lazy. When you've read though them you will see he's been making changes that work toward making the US a 3rd world country.

 

[playtime]

GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE. Article I, section 8 of the U. S. Constitution grants Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general Welfare of the United States."

Look at the four words I bolded in your quote... "of the United States". Not of the Citizens or the States or the People. If your way of looking at it was correct, where is my personal US Marine to provide for my Common Defense?

liberty & justice for ALL.

ALL means its people. not corporations, not a piece of cloth & certainly not just some.

ALL.

 

[Anathema]

liberty & justice for ALL...

Not sure I remember thise words in Article I, Section 8, or anywhere else, in the Constitution.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Trump is trying to do away with many of them.

Trump is trying to do away with, "education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on"?

Link?

He's cutting heathcare, he's cutting funding to EPA.
"President Trump's 2018 budget, released Tuesday, proposes balancing the budget by cutting $1.74 trillion from social safety net programs and Medicaid and overhauling the tax code and regulatory framework, and it sets an economic growth target of three percent.

The plan, titled "The New Foundation for American Greatness," includes a total of $3.6 trillion in spending cuts to reach a balanced budget within 10 years, reducing the debt from its current 77 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) to 60 percent of GDP, and wiping out deficit spending entirely in a decade. The budget book devotes two pages to an outline of how the Obama administration caused massive inflation of the national debt and created economic stagnation.

The President's first major budget proposal, which assumes the Medicaid savings in the Affordable Health Care Act (AHCA) will be passed, would make $800 billion in cuts to Medicaid over the next decade.

Programs like food stamps (SNAP), Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP), Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI), and Temporary Assistance for Needy families (TANF) will face sharp cuts." Trump budget proposal has massive cuts to social programs

Thanks.

Thanks for admitting you lied about Trump trying to do away with, "education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on".

Dude try not trying to lie about what people post. If you have no argument stay quiet

Dude, she made a really stupid fucking claim.
She posted links which failed to prove her stupid fucking claim.

That's not true. I posted links that prove my claim. I didn't say all, I said many. I suspect you didn't read through all 40 some bills he signed because you are too intellectually lazy. When you've read though them you will see he's been making changes that work toward making the US a 3rd world country.

Which of your links shows he wants to end, "education, police, ambulance and fire services"?
Or "unemployment, roads and dams"?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE. Article I, section 8 of the U. S. Constitution grants Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general Welfare of the United States."

Look at the four words I bolded in your quote... "of the United States". Not of the Citizens or the States or the People. If your way of looking at it was correct, where is my personal US Marine to provide for my Common Defense?

liberty & justice for ALL.

ALL means its people. not corporations, not a piece of cloth & certainly not just some.

ALL.

If the "general welfare" meant food stamps and Section 8 housing for irresponsible people why did it take 200 years to put that infrastructure in place and specific legislation to kick it off?

 

[Kondor3]

It is absolutely the roll of the nation to make sure everyone is physically taken care of....

It is? I don't remember reading that in the Constitution.

...And adequate 1st - 12th grade education is also a right for everyone, as well as basic housing...

It is? I don't remember reading that in the Constitution.

...It isn't a matter of taking care of people who don't bother to take care of themselves; it is an issue of what is best for the society as a whole...

It is? I don't remember reading that in the Constitution.

...If you go to 3rd world countries, you see what it is like when these things are not available for everyone...

The United States did not become a First World Country by being a Nanny State.

...It isn't a matter of socialism, but as a developed humane society, we need to take responsibility for the society as a whole...

Translation: It's a matter of socialism. I don't remember reading that in the Constitution, either.

...The poor will always be with us. People with less aptitude will always be with us...

Yep. Jesus of Nazareth observed just that, the better part of 2,000 years ago, and the're still with us. Also, the sun rises in the east. Not exactly news.

...Unless we want to see them begging in the streets and living in squalor, we need to accept they are our responsibility as a society...

No, they are NOT our responsibility, although people of goodwill can gather together to provide voluntary aid.

...Not doing so is like casting off the elderly without social security or medicare: despicable.

Wake us up when "they" kick the elderly off Social Security and Medicare... apples and oranges... irrelevant to arguments over Nanny Statism.

 

[Kondor3]

GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE. Article I, section 8 of the U. S. Constitution grants Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general Welfare of the United States."

Look at the four words I bolded in your quote... "of the United States". Not of the Citizens or the States or the People. If your way of looking at it was correct, where is my personal US Marine to provide for my Common Defense?

liberty & justice for ALL.

ALL means its people. not corporations, not a piece of cloth & certainly not just some.

ALL.

If the "general welfare" meant food stamps and Section 8 housing for irresponsible people why did it take 200 years to put that infrastructure in place and specific legislation to kick it off?

Don't burst their bubble... they're so cute when they try to reinterpret the Constitution and reinvent history with a 21st century Leftist spin... cute little critters.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

At the time of the writing of the Constitution the general welfare clause and its meaning was debated.

Alexander Hamilton, the framer most in favor of expansive federal power, conceded as much in Federalist 83.

This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended.

Madison specifically addressed the anti-federalist fears in Federalist 41.

For what purpose could the enumeration of particular powers be inserted, if these and all others were meant to be included in the preceding general power?Nothing is more natural nor common than first to use a general phrase, and then to explain and qualify it by a recital of particulars. But the idea of an enumeration of particulars which neither explain nor qualify the general meaning, and can have no other effect than to confound and mislead, is an absurdity, which, as we are reduced to the dilemma of charging either on the authors of the objection or on the authors of the Constitution, we must take the liberty of supposing, had not its origin with the latter.

Madison further illuminated the intended meaning of the general welfare clause in a letter to Edmund Pendleton dated 1793, pointing out that the phrase was lifted from the Articles of Confederation and was intended to retain its meaning in the new Constitution.

If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions. It is to be remarked that the phrase out of which this doctrine is elaborated, is copied from the old articles of Confederation, where it was always understood as nothing more than a general caption to the specified powers, and it is a fact that it was preferred in the new instrument for that very reason as less liable than any other to misconstruction.

Is this clear? The general welfare clause does not be a check to everyone and theater tickets on demand.

Two words in the clause hold the key. General and common. The phrase simply means that any tax collected must be collected to the benefit of the United States as a whole, not for partial or sectional (i.e. special) interests. The federal government may promote the general welfare, or common good, but it must do so within the scope of the powers delegated and without favoritism.

This explanation would preclude such things as WIC or EBT or Medicaid.


The General Welfare Clause is not about writing checks

 

[WillMunny]

Why do so many of you liberals automatically think you're entitled to so many goods & services just for having popped out of a womb? America tends to be a do-it-yourself, somewhat libertarian society in which you're expected to work and contribute to achieve what you want in life. The result of automatically handing someone everything results in the ultimate sniveling, entitled spoiled brats, the Obamas. Or the university snowflakes. Or grievance-mongering black crybabies. Or any other liberalfilth abomination you can name. The commonality of ALL these repulsive cultural items is being handed EVERYTHING in life.

 

[sealybobo]

I think medical and basic food should be a right!
1. We need single payer. No one should go deep into debt and no other country allows such idiocy to occur within the first world. Fuck Paul Ryan and fuck anyone that enjoys this kind of suffering!
2. All people that can't afford to eat should be given food stamps. It is just the right thing to do!

All conservative arguments against these things are from the deep past...Somehow making people suffer is somehow good within their minds. Well, guess what, it is unacceptable to me within the riches country on earth and we shouldn't allow it. It is the right thing to do, moral thing to do and economic thing to do. When people are healthy and not hungry they can make more money + pay more taxes and enhance our economy for us all.

Because we didn't have this stuff in 1787 doesn't mean it shouldn't be a right. Things change and people wake up and look around at the nastiness within our world hoping for better.

Most of western europe work pretty freaking good and have respectable safetynets. Guess what, they're more wealthy per capital by far. How the fuck can you argue that they're failures? Why should all of our resources go to the top, while most of the country dives into the shit can.How is this good?

Knowing these things cost hopefully future Americans think about that before breeding

 

[saveliberty]

So if medical is a right, then a ninety-eight year old should get a kidney transplant?

If medical is a right, then the unborn should be given every chance to enter the world?

If food is a right, then I get to eat steak every night?

Did you really even think this through OP?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You people really can't defend not taking care of those in real need and not providing basic education, so you make absurd, pathetic jokes about it.

The thread topic did not include education, which everyone has a right to already!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They hate civilization and what they really want is for the top 5% to have it all and everyone else can be damned.

No public services
No help
No infrastructure for all
No nothing

These liberterians wouldn't be happy until the poor are thrown into ghettos to die. They'd probably force a caste like system on populations with the rich being the only ones allowed to do most things, while the poor would be extremely limited.

You keep saying this post after post! What public services and infrastructure are you lacking? It's probably lacking in the same way you claim everything else is lacking, when it is already provided.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

You people really can't defend not taking care of those in real need and not providing basic education, so you make absurd, pathetic jokes about it.

The thread topic did not include education, which everyone has a right to already!

I guess that one never heard of public schools.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They hate civilization and what they really want is for the top 5% to have it all and everyone else can be damned.

No public services
No help
No infrastructure for all
No nothing

These liberterians wouldn't be happy until the poor are thrown into ghettos to die. They'd probably force a caste like system on populations with the rich being the only ones allowed to do most things, while the poor would be extremely limited.

The funny part is that most of them would end up destitute too. These people are not the top wealthy 10 percent. They depend on social services too, whether it is education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on. Those are all services for everyone, paid with our taxes. Without those things, we would be a third world country, and Trump is trying to do away with many of them.

Virtually your entire list is not provided by the federal government. Trump has NOTHING to do with that!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You people really can't defend not taking care of those in real need and not providing basic education, so you make absurd, pathetic jokes about it.

The thread topic did not include education, which everyone has a right to already!

I guess that one never heard of public schools.

No, of course not. They believe everyone else is as stupid as they are!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

They hate civilization and what they really want is for the top 5% to have it all and everyone else can be damned.

No public services
No help
No infrastructure for all
No nothing

These liberterians wouldn't be happy until the poor are thrown into ghettos to die. They'd probably force a caste like system on populations with the rich being the only ones allowed to do most things, while the poor would be extremely limited.

The funny part is that most of them would end up destitute too. These people are not the top wealthy 10 percent. They depend on social services too, whether it is education, police, ambulance and fire services, often health care, unemployment, transportation, roads, dams, clean water, and on and on. Those are all services for everyone, paid with our taxes. Without those things, we would be a third world country, and Trump is trying to do away with many of them.

Virtually your entire list is not provided by the federal government. Trump has NOTHING to do with that!

That one, what a whackadoodle. Trump's trying to do away with fire departments?