Zone1 I was a Catholic for 50 years but left six years ago, here's why

[Meriweather]

/——/ I’m starting to question K9Buck’s sincerity. Who rants on about leaving the Church? Maybe he’s trying to convince himself.

I favor starting with what is sincere. I believe he had a sincere desire to leave the Catholic Church. I am interested in that sincere desire. My hypothesis: The Church has failed to build his spiritual life and draw him closer to God. Obviously, he and I went to very different Catholics schools (or at least to me it is obvious). One of the Saints (Teresa of Avila) who lived in the 1500s has always stuck in my mind. She was a Spanish nun who wrote about the seven levels of spirituality, all levels having numerous rooms. She stated flat out that even the most sincere person attending Church barely made it into the foyer or first level of spirituality.

Basically, the Church church opens the door and greets us, but unfortunately there is so much to be done at this level, we are pretty much left on our own to climb further and discover the other six levels and all those rooms. Still, that first level is the foundation of our Church that is built upon Christ, and it is vital.

Love this joke:

The Three Huts

A ship, sailing past a desert island, spots a man who has been stranded there for several years. The captain goes ashore to rescue the man and notices three huts.

“What’s the first hut for?” he asks.
“That’s my house,” says the castaway.

“What’s the second hut for?”
“That’s my church.”

“And the third hut?”
“Oh, that?” sniffs the castaway. “That’s the church I used to go to.”

The concern I have is that K9Buck may not advancing to a higher level, he just moved to another foyer that has a different design...but is ultimately just another foyer. No one advances to another level by looking back. He seems to be looking back, when perhaps he missed looking up to the next level?

 

[notmyfault2020]

It became clear to me that Jesus's "church" here on Earth wasn't an institution or an organization but, rather, his body of believers, which includes many faithful Christians of many denominations. Why do I believe this?

.

I stopped here because it was the first place I found something based on a falsity.

Just because all Christians are brothers/sisters does not mean there is to be no physical, visible - to - the - whole - world CHURCH. "A city on a hill cannot be hid" says the Word of God.

Then there is this: The fake Vatican sect that once belonged to Catholics but since 1958 belongs to non-believers DOES teach what you are saying you believe. The Vatican teaches that "denominations" do not matter, that anyone can belong to just any old community and it's all the same thing and everyone gets to Heaven or something to that general effect.. So why don't you just stay in the novus ordo sect... ie your local "catholic church"?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

It became clear to me that Jesus's "church" here on Earth wasn't an institution or an organization but, rather, his body of believers, which includes many faithful Christians of many denominations

YOU get it! Good to see you again btw

 

[Carl in Michigan]

stopped here because it was the first place I found something based on a falsity.

Just because all Christians are brothers/sisters does not mean there is to be no physical, visible - to - the - whole - world CHURCH. "A city on a hill cannot be hid" says the

The CHURCH does have certain beliefs/doctrine. The Catholic teachings goes against so many of them.

Christ could/can be working through individuals in many organizations but IF He brings you to a new truth, and you reject it, Christ will reveal no more.

The Catholic cult fulfills the prophecies of the prophet Daniel who warned someone (the Antichrist) would dare to "change times and laws"

There are so many things Christ said NOT to do, but your organization willfully does them.

 

[buttercup]

I've shared my story many times, so I won't repeat it but the Cliff Notes version is: I too went through all the Catholic stuff growing up, and never went back once I became a born again Christian as an adult. It was the same with my sister. Even my mom who is a lifelong Catholic has been going to non-denominational churches in the last few years, and she's even going to a weekly bible study now, that she loves...which my sister and I are super happy about.

 

[norwegen]

Next, Jesus wasn't into religious organizations and calling people "Rabbi" or "Father" or "Teacher" as demonstrated in Matthew 23. Jesus preached that the "greatest" would humble themselves and that those who are exalted will be humbled. He was very critical of the Pharisees and Sadducees and all of their false bravado and pomposity.

So why does the RCC want its followers to call priests "father" in direct contradiction to Matthew 23:9? RCC apologists will point to 1 Corinthians 4:15 to justify the RCC asking its followers to call their priests "father". So I do see a seeming contradiction there but, nevertheless, Jesus told us NOT to call mere mortals "father". Please understand that Jesus was referring to spiritual and religious leaders and NOT one's biological father. Many Christian churches refer to one another simply as "brother", as Jesus described us (see below) in Matthew 23:8. So why doesn't the RCC? The bottom line is that Jesus is instructing that we do NOT put any religious leaders on a pedestool and honor and exalt them as if they're on a similar level to God. They are certainly not. So, why does the RCC exalt the Pope, cardinals, bishops, & priests?

1 Corinthians 4:15 (NIV)​

15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

Matthew 23​

​

English Standard Version​

​

Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees​

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,[a] and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi[b] by others. 8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers.[c] 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.[d] 15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell[e] as yourselves.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’ 17 You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’ 19 You blind men! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and by him who dwells in it. 22 And whoever swears by heaven swears by the throne of God and by him who sits upon it.
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. 24 You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel!
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,[f] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

They say that a picture is worth a thousand words. Does it appear to you that the Pope was following Jesus's instructions about humbling oneself and NOT being exalted? The answer is, obviously, NO!

View attachment 757706

I think Paul meant that he remained a mentor to the Corinthian church after helping to plant it. He was an elder in the body by then.

But he was certainly no father in a traditional sense. He was not a permanent and regular part of that assembly. He was not the leader of those people.

In fact, leadership in the primitive church didn’t exist. No priests. Not even preachers as people think of them. People preached in the New Testament, to be sure, but at different times to different audiences, and a lot of audience-preacher interaction took place. Jesus’ own sermons were often interrupted by questions of both his disciples and the Pharisees.

And anyone could preach; no one was ordained. Preaching was not a paid, leadership position.

Ignatius of Antioch was the first to start the pastor/priest ball rolling down its slippery slope. He elevated an elder to a role that would be called bishop. Other elders would be called presbyters, and all of them would stand in for God.

The bishop alone celebrated the Lord’s supper, conducted baptisms, gave counsel, disciplined parishioners, approved marriages, and preached sermons. No longer was the church a congregation of equals whose gatherings – worship and teaching and learning and fellowship – proceeded spontaneously and organically (so much so in Corinth, in fact, that Paul felt compelled to implore them to restore some order in their meetings). It was now becoming a hierarchical organization separating the few who performed and partook from the many who passively stood by in the pews.

And then came Cyprian of Carthage, a former pagan orator and teacher of rhetoric who naturally brought his influences and ideas into the church. Hence the resurrection of the Old Testament economy - priests, temples, altars, and sacrifices. To Cyprian, the bishop was accountable only to God. Presbyters were deputies of sorts, and beneath them were the deacons, and the rest were the pitiable laymen, no longer engaged in the priesthood of God. The clergy caste was solidly affixed.

I wouldn’t blame you for leaving the church. Have you found a house church? But not one with a hierarchy; one in which believers just gather to worship, fellowship, and sup together.

 

[K9Buck]

I would be interested in hearing the personal reasons.

I didn't have any negative experiences with the RCC. I simply read the scriptures along with observing all of the heretical teachings and practices of the RCC and realized that it is "of the world" and that it is a heretical, apostate, organization.

 

[K9Buck]

...and then taught how/why the Catholic position formed in Apostolic times...

God told us that scripture is sufficient to make us "complete". The RCC essentially teaches that the original scriptures are insufficient and incomplete based on all of the doctrines that they added later, such as purgatory, praying to Mary and the saints, infant baptism, the infallibility of the Pope, etc. NONE of that is Biblical and it is NOT from God but, rather, from the other guy, in my opinion.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God[a] may be complete, equipped for every good work.

 

[ding]

I didn't have any negative experiences with the RCC. I simply read the scriptures along with observing all of the heretical teachings and practices of the RCC and realized that it is "of the world" and that it is a heretical, apostate, organization.

You relied upon a collection of books put together by the heretical RCC to prove the RCC is heretical? Wouldn't that make the texts you relied upon heretical?

 

[K9Buck]

So...never was a good Pope, Pope/Vatican never did a single thing that was good.

Only God can judge them. Jesus even objected to someone calling him "good" The various Popes were just ordinary men, no different than Baptist or Presbyterian preachers in any given community. The scripture are clear that no man is worthy of exaltation except God alone.

Luke 18: 18-19 esv
18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

 

[K9Buck]

You relied upon a collection of books put together by the heretical RCC to prove the RCC is heretical? Wouldn't that make the texts you relied upon heretical?

Do you believe that men in the RCC created the Bible or do you believe that men, inspired and led by the Holy Spirit, did so? Please don't take my word for anything, my brother, but look to what God says.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God[a] may be complete, equipped for every good work.

 

[K9Buck]

The concern I have is that K9Buck may not advancing to a higher level...

I am a very simple, flawed, human being. I just go by what God says through the scriptures that he gave to us. If you have seen anything that I have said that contradicts scripture, please let me know so that I can better understand God and what is of God and what is NOT of God. Thank you.

 

[K9Buck]

Just because all Christians are brothers/sisters does not mean there is to be no physical, visible - to - the - whole - world CHURCH. "A city on a hill cannot be hid" says the Word of God.

Jesus was speaking figuratively, my brother.

Matthew 5:14-17 esv​

14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[a] they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

 

[K9Buck]

So why don't you just stay in the novus ordo sect... ie your local "catholic church"?

Why not just follow God's words that he provided to us in the scriptures? Is it wrong of me to believe and follow God's words from the scriptures? What do you believe I am doing wrong, my brother?

 

[BS Filter]

I was baptized into the Catholic Church (hereafter referred to as the RCC) as an infant. I attended Catholic schools from 1st grade through high school. I attended Mass every week. I was even an altar boy. But about six years ago, at the ripe old age of 50, I determined that the RCC was NOT what it claimed to be and that, in fact, it teaches many heresies.

It wasn't for one reason but, rather, many. But for brevity purposes in my opening post, I will focus on one of those reasons in this post and then will add more as I go.

Before I do, however, please understand that I am NOT attacking Catholics, of whom many are very Godly people, my late father being one of them.

It became clear to me that Jesus's "church" here on Earth wasn't an institution or an organization but, rather, his body of believers, which includes many faithful Christians of many denominations. Why do I believe this?

Jesus told Peter that he was a rock and that on "this" rock, which was/is him (Jesus/God), he would build his church.

Matthew 16:18 YLT (Young's Literal Translation)
And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

The King Jame's Version (KJV) says it slightly differently:
Matthew 16:18 KJV
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

One can argue that the KJV is the "better" translation (it's not) and say that Peter IS the "rock". However, in scripture, God & Jesus are referred to as the rock many times, as well as a "foundation" and a "cornerstone". Let me share them with you below.

1 Samuel 2:2 ESV
“There is none holy like the Lord: for there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God.

2 Samuel 22:2
He said, “The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer,

Psalm 62:6 ESV
He only is my rock and my salvation, my fortress; I shall not be shaken.

Psalm 144:1 ESV
Of David. Blessed be the Lord, my rock, who trains my hands for war, and my fingers for battle;

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 ESV
For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

Psalm 18:46 ESV
The Lord lives, and blessed be my rock, and exalted be the God of my salvation—

Matthew 7:24-25 ESV
“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.

Psalm 19:14 ESV
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in your sight, O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.

1 Peter 2:7-9 ESV
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Isaiah 26:4 ESV
Trust in the Lord forever, for the Lord God is an everlasting rock.

Psalm 18:1-2 ESV
To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, the servant of the Lord, who addressed the words of this song to the Lord on the day when the Lord delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. He said: I love you, O Lord, my strength. The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

1 Corinthians 3:11-16 ESV
For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Isaiah 51:1 ESV
“Listen to me, you who pursue righteousness, you who seek the Lord: look to the rock from which you were hewn, and to the quarry from which you were dug.

Psalm 61:1-3 ESV
To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. Of David. Hear my cry, O God, listen to my prayer; from the end of the earth I call to you when my heart is faint. Lead me to the rock that is higher than I, for you have been my refuge, a strong tower against the enemy.

Acts 4:11-13 ESV
This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone.
(Note: It's interesting to me that the verse in Acts 4:11-13 refers to Jesus as a "stone" rather than a rock).

1 Peter 2:4 As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

I have concluded that Peter was a rock, as were Paul, John, Matthew, etc., but Peter was not the rock. The rock was, is, and always will be God.

Excellent. Jesus is the head of the Church, and the Church is every believer who puts their faith in Jesus, regardless of where they assemble.

 

[K9Buck]

Christ could/can be working through individuals in many organizations but IF He brings you to a new truth, and you reject it, Christ will reveal no more.

Most people are well-intentioned but we live in a world of deception. That's why I stick to the scriptures and then pray for discernment so that I can truly understand.

Romans 12:2 esv​

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

 

[K9Buck]

In fact, leadership in the primitive church didn’t exist. No priests. Not even preachers as people think of them.

Yes, Jesus opposed religious hierarchies.

Matthew 23:8-12 esv
8 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ. 11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

 

[K9Buck]

Ignatius of Antioch was the first to start the pastor/priest ball rolling down its slippery slope. He elevated an elder to a role that would be called bishop. Other elders would be called presbyters, and all of them would stand in for God.

I love openbible.info because I can type in a word and many verses will appear that pertain to that word. For example, I typed in "false teachers" and received the following verses that the reader can click on to read for themselves or they can type in a different word to find out what the Bible says. We're blessed and fortunate to have such easy access to God's words.

What Does the Bible Say About False Teachers?

Bible verses about False Teachers

www.openbible.info

 

[K9Buck]

I think Paul meant that he remained a mentor to the Corinthian church after helping to plant it. He was an elder in the body by then.

But he was certainly no father in a traditional sense. He was not a permanent and regular part of that assembly. He was not the leader of those people.

In fact, leadership in the primitive church didn’t exist. No priests. Not even preachers as people think of them. People preached in the New Testament, to be sure, but at different times to different audiences, and a lot of audience-preacher interaction took place. Jesus’ own sermons were often interrupted by questions of both his disciples and the Pharisees.

And anyone could preach; no one was ordained. Preaching was not a paid, leadership position.

Ignatius of Antioch was the first to start the pastor/priest ball rolling down its slippery slope. He elevated an elder to a role that would be called bishop. Other elders would be called presbyters, and all of them would stand in for God.

The bishop alone celebrated the Lord’s supper, conducted baptisms, gave counsel, disciplined parishioners, approved marriages, and preached sermons. No longer was the church a congregation of equals whose gatherings – worship and teaching and learning and fellowship – proceeded spontaneously and organically (so much so in Corinth, in fact, that Paul felt compelled to implore them to restore some order in their meetings). It was now becoming a hierarchical organization separating the few who performed and partook from the many who passively stood by in the pews.

And then came Cyprian of Carthage, a former pagan orator and teacher of rhetoric who naturally brought his influences and ideas into the church. Hence the resurrection of the Old Testament economy - priests, temples, altars, and sacrifices. To Cyprian, the bishop was accountable only to God. Presbyters were deputies of sorts, and beneath them were the deacons, and the rest were the pitiable laymen, no longer engaged in the priesthood of God. The clergy caste was solidly affixed.

I wouldn’t blame you for leaving the church. Have you found a house church? But not one with a hierarchy; one in which believers just gather to worship, fellowship, and sup together.

Great stuff my brother.

I have not found a church, although I did recently visit a non-denominational church and listened to a sermon. It was nice. But, being brought up in the Catholic Church, I was unaccustomed to people shouting "Preach it!" and "Amen!" all the time.

I do share the word of God on various message boards and social media. His word is the a great gift and I want to share it with others so that they too can share in its joy.

 

[K9Buck]

Excellent. Jesus is the head of the Church, and the Church is every believer who puts their faith in Jesus, regardless of where they assemble.

Amen, my brother.