Ideas for fixing minimum wage.

[DOTR]

I shall not hide that just like Abraham Lincoln I'm not much of a states rights guy. That ship has sailed IMO.

Thats because Federalism and Freedom go together. The Swiss..the Canadians..America..Australia.. recognized that limited and decentralized government is the most benign government.
Federalism is self rule and self restraint. Centralism is tyranny and empire and control. In our country and Constitution the Founders feared the central government so much they de facto banned all national elections and made every election a state issue. Our Constitution envisions the states as the check on a runaway central government.
We are ruled by unelected judges now of course..but still state elections were the original idea.
And as evidence I point out the constant push towards centralization by liberals as they impose fiat rule over Americans. You yourself have as much as admitted above that you cant as easily impose your pet economic controls over us when you are faced with local governments.

The communists eliminated the "lander" wherever they took power in Europe. Just erased them. Communists prefer "administrative districts" answerable to centralized authority. But the communists certainly didnt invent the idea...previously the Nazis had abolished the German states in 1933, in favor of "gaue" (administrative district), as they consolidated power from the German States to the central Nazi Government in a process known as Gleichschaltung

When the people of East Germany threw off the communists they first reconstituted their states as necessary bulwarks of freedom and then these new states joined West Germany individually.

 

[Andylusion]

I think it's fair to point out the downward pressure on wages caused by the welfare state. People on assistance only need to make up the difference. And they can use their ability to work for less to compete more effectively in the job market. It's a real problem. The people it really screws are the low-skilled workers who aren't on the dole.

So, to remedy the damage the welfare state does to the job market, we try to force employers to pay what they would have had to pay if not for the welfare. But that approach is fundamentally flawed because the law doesn't actually force them to pay their employees more. They can always opt to not pay them anything - lay them off.

It's not hard to understand how this works. If a business allocates $60/hr for its total labor costs, and currently employs six people at $10/hr, what will happen if a minimum wage law "forces" the business to pay employees $15/hr? Their total labor costs have jumped 50%. The business plan will have to change. They'll need to raise prices, reduce profits, or lay off the lowest performing employees. It would likely be a mix of the three. So in that scenario, it's likely one employee would be let go, and the others expected to work a bit harder for their 'raise'.

Well my first hand experience was....

As I have said dozens of times, I worked at a McDonald's when a minimum wage hike hit.

The first thing they did, was lay off 3 part time people. No one was hired in their place. Instead we simply had to do their duties along with our original position.

We had for example, and old retired guy. He came in 4 hours a day. So he would come in, empty all the trash cans around the store, including the ones outside, and then he would clean those plastic trays, and oven trays.

So with him gone, we emptied the trash ourselves (when we could between customers), and often that meant the trash cans outside were not emptied. And we would have to 'run' from the drive through window cashier position, to the back and clean trays, between customers.

You can tell if the store you are at, does not have part time people to do this, if the drive through window is empty when you pull up, and then you see a guy walk over with wet hands. He was likely cleaning trays between customers, because they no longer have someone to do that specific task anymore.

Then after that, the second thing they did was reduce portion sizes. So the size of the drinks, and the size of the fries, will get smaller.

This happened over a period of months. But the way I found out about it, was that the drink and fry cups, physically didn't fit the dispensers anymore. They were too small, and fell through the dispenser.

And then last, is they start slowly raising prices.

The idea that they are going to simply earn less profit, is just not all that likely.

The cost to open a McDonald's is around $2.2 Million dollars. The owner of that store, himself, has put in upwards of a Million dollars.

People that think that an owner or a investor in a McDonald's, is just going to "make do" with a sub-six-figure income... they are crazy.

If I put $1,000,000 into the stock market, I can make $80,000 a year just from the dividends. And that is with low risk, basic investing. I can easily make $100,000 a year, with aggressive investing in the stock market.

Why would I risk investing $1 Million dollars in a store, and risk losing that money if the store fails, in order to make only $100,000 a year or less? That would be stupid of me.

If you think anyone is going to invest $2 Million dollars to open a store, and not make a big freaking income from it... you are nutz.

Better to close the store, lay everyone off, sell all the equipment, and the property, get as much money back as you can, and invest in the stock market.

This idea the left-wing puts out in simple minded fools mouths, that owners and CEO will be willing to be happy with $100,000 a year, so their employees who risk nothing, can make $50,000 a year flipping burgers.... is just insane. Total stupidity. And if you simply put yourself in the owners shoes, no one would ever accept "you will just make do with less profits" crap. None of these people supporting this idea, would run a store on those terms.

 

[danielpalos]

The tech community has this really arrogant concept of the "useless class" that they use to characterize people who will be replaced by computers and automation. I don't buy it.

Why are we paying Taxes if not for Government to solve all problems?

Unemployment compensation for Capitalism's natural rate of unemployment and a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage is how simple it should be for even potential Labor, to stay current in our markets.

 

[OnePercenter]

Small businesses shouldn't have a minimum wage, but government should pump it up to 15, while corporations should have a 15 hour wage because they can afford it.

Which small businesses can't afford a $15.00/hr minimum wage?

The concept of a minimum wage hurts small businesses much more than large corporations

That doesn't answer the question.

30% of small business owners make no salary, but they owe 1/3rd more to workers???

Big Boss, Small Salary: Study Finds Most Business Owners Earn Less

Again; Which small businesses can't afford a $15.00/hr minimum wage?

Answer the question or admit you're wrong.

 

[Wyatt earp]

First off, if you subsidize the employee.... that isn't corporate welfare. The corporate was never obligated for anything, whether the tax payer is stupid enough to subsidize a someone or not.

Again, as has been proven MILLIONS OF TIMES.... if you raise the minimum wage, people lose jobs.

Walmart had an average of 330 people employed per store in 2006, when the minimum wage was $5.25.
By 2010, when the minimum wage was raised to $7.25, the average number of employees per store was down to 280.

50 less employed per store, is thousands on thousands of people unemployed. Those unemployed were collecting far more benefits, than they were when they were employed.

Which is better? Partial welfare while they are at least working a job? Or full welfare, with them unemployed?

No one is subsidizing Walmart. You are just flat out wrong.

What you are parroting is the corporate mantra. They will never pay a decent wage if the taxpayer chips in to help. every time the mnimum wage is raised we hear the same stuff. But here is the thing. You have a minimum wage that has been raised in the past. And yet you have record employment.

So how does that work ?

You have a minimum wage that has been raised in the past. And yet you have record employment.

So how does that work ?

We've raised it before, so why not raise it to $100/hour?

What could go wrong?

Fair and reasonable is the thing.

$100/hour isn't fair and reasonable?

For what ?

That's a livable wage


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

I assume that, as a liberal, what is unsaid here is "federal minimum wage". States can mandate a minimum wage..but its subject to market forces therefore you MUST have it imposed federally where you can hide the damage it causes while transferring money to cover the destruction of capital.

I am always going to say this...why dont you chip in for minimum wage? Nobody would object if you went into mcdonalds and paid all the workers a little extra.

If you wanna be snarky,

I do chip in for minimum wage. You do to. we all build things for billionaires and farmers all the time.

Then you wont be needing a law. Excuse me..a "federal" law.

Yeah, I want a Federal law or mandate all 50 states need to meet this minimum or whatever. We're all in it together. On a side note, I'm tired of Missouri and Virginia and all the little cities around here out competing each other in attempts to give tax breaks to billionaires.

I shall not hide that just like Abraham Lincoln I'm not much of a states rights guy. That ship has sailed IMO.

I knew you would admit it sooner or later.


.

 

[OnePercenter]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

A minimum wage would for the most part only effect low skilled workers, and in the age of AI, a large number of these jobs could be eliminated by smart machines. The only reason these jobs exist at all now is that they cost less than the machines. A minimum wage of any significance would cost low skilled workers their jobs and create new jobs for higher skilled workers that design and build smart machines. The lesson here is forget about these political slogans about a minimum wage and encourage each worker to create his own minimum wage by acquiring higher paying skills.

Eliminate the economic advantage of smart machines by eliminating tax incentives.

There is no tax incentive to replace low skilled workers with smart machines.

Tax incentives for business topped $80B this year mostly for capital investment.

 

[toomuchtime_]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

A minimum wage would for the most part only effect low skilled workers, and in the age of AI, a large number of these jobs could be eliminated by smart machines. The only reason these jobs exist at all now is that they cost less than the machines. A minimum wage of any significance would cost low skilled workers their jobs and create new jobs for higher skilled workers that design and build smart machines. The lesson here is forget about these political slogans about a minimum wage and encourage each worker to create his own minimum wage by acquiring higher paying skills.

Eliminate the economic advantage of smart machines by eliminating tax incentives.

There is no tax incentive to replace low skilled workers with smart machines.

Tax incentives for business topped $80B this year mostly for capital investment.

Are you trying to sound stupid?

 

[Toronado3800]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

I assume that, as a liberal, what is unsaid here is "federal minimum wage". States can mandate a minimum wage..but its subject to market forces therefore you MUST have it imposed federally where you can hide the damage it causes while transferring money to cover the destruction of capital.

I am always going to say this...why dont you chip in for minimum wage? Nobody would object if you went into mcdonalds and paid all the workers a little extra.

If you wanna be snarky,

I do chip in for minimum wage. You do to. we all build things for billionaires and farmers all the time.

Then you wont be needing a law. Excuse me..a "federal" law.

Yeah, I want a Federal law or mandate all 50 states need to meet this minimum or whatever. We're all in it together. On a side note, I'm tired of Missouri and Virginia and all the little cities around here out competing each other in attempts to give tax breaks to billionaires.

I shall not hide that just like Abraham Lincoln I'm not much of a states rights guy. That ship has sailed IMO.

I knew you would admit it sooner or later.


.

Yup. Loncoln and I, me and Lincoln. We're Americans, not Georgians or Mainans or whatever.

If I ever hid that my apologies.

Any progress yet concerning if minimum wage increases raise inflation by raising wages or if minimum wage increases lower wages?

BTW, if incomes rise also reasonable inflation helps hide fixed long term borrowing costs. That type of thing fixes or hides our real estate demand problems. So I'm not concerned if wages and inflation rise together.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Once more I ask, where are the unions. Daughters friends boyfriend is an EMT, COULDN'T get an exact figure on his hrly wage but by the hours he's working and what he's bringing home it's sounds like it's somewhere around 17 to 18. ...and he belongs to a union. Told her they should walk off like nurses do. That's a crime.

 

[DOTR]

I assume that, as a liberal, what is unsaid here is "federal minimum wage". States can mandate a minimum wage..but its subject to market forces therefore you MUST have it imposed federally where you can hide the damage it causes while transferring money to cover the destruction of capital.

I am always going to say this...why dont you chip in for minimum wage? Nobody would object if you went into mcdonalds and paid all the workers a little extra.

If you wanna be snarky,

I do chip in for minimum wage. You do to. we all build things for billionaires and farmers all the time.

Then you wont be needing a law. Excuse me..a "federal" law.

Yeah, I want a Federal law or mandate all 50 states need to meet this minimum or whatever. We're all in it together. On a side note, I'm tired of Missouri and Virginia and all the little cities around here out competing each other in attempts to give tax breaks to billionaires.

I shall not hide that just like Abraham Lincoln I'm not much of a states rights guy. That ship has sailed IMO.

I knew you would admit it sooner or later.


.

Yup. Loncoln and I, me and Lincoln. We're Americans, not Georgians or Mainans or whatever.

If I ever hid that my apologies.

Any progress yet concerning if minimum wage increases raise inflation by raising wages or if minimum wage increases lower wages?

BTW, if incomes rise also reasonable inflation helps hide fixed long term borrowing costs. That type of thing fixes or hides our real estate demand problems. So I'm not concerned if wages and inflation rise together.

There is no such thing as "reasonable inflation". All inflation is a government tax on families. Its 2% a year lost to government overspending if their goals are met.

 

[danielpalos]

A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed solves simple poverty and produces a positive multiplier effect upon any economy. We could be lower our income tax burden by simplifying Government.

 

[Wyatt earp]

I assume that, as a liberal, what is unsaid here is "federal minimum wage". States can mandate a minimum wage..but its subject to market forces therefore you MUST have it imposed federally where you can hide the damage it causes while transferring money to cover the destruction of capital.

I am always going to say this...why dont you chip in for minimum wage? Nobody would object if you went into mcdonalds and paid all the workers a little extra.

If you wanna be snarky,

I do chip in for minimum wage. You do to. we all build things for billionaires and farmers all the time.

Then you wont be needing a law. Excuse me..a "federal" law.

Yeah, I want a Federal law or mandate all 50 states need to meet this minimum or whatever. We're all in it together. On a side note, I'm tired of Missouri and Virginia and all the little cities around here out competing each other in attempts to give tax breaks to billionaires.

I shall not hide that just like Abraham Lincoln I'm not much of a states rights guy. That ship has sailed IMO.

I knew you would admit it sooner or later.


.

Yup. Loncoln and I, me and Lincoln. We're Americans, not Georgians or Mainans or whatever.

If I ever hid that my apologies.

Any progress yet concerning if minimum wage increases raise inflation by raising wages or if minimum wage increases lower wages?

BTW, if incomes rise also reasonable inflation helps hide fixed long term borrowing costs. That type of thing fixes or hides our real estate demand problems. So I'm not concerned if wages and inflation rise together.

No you're against freedom..you want everything to be the same across America.. (as Long as you get to decide)


.

 

[DOTR]

If you wanna be snarky,

I do chip in for minimum wage. You do to. we all build things for billionaires and farmers all the time.

Then you wont be needing a law. Excuse me..a "federal" law.

Yeah, I want a Federal law or mandate all 50 states need to meet this minimum or whatever. We're all in it together. On a side note, I'm tired of Missouri and Virginia and all the little cities around here out competing each other in attempts to give tax breaks to billionaires.

I shall not hide that just like Abraham Lincoln I'm not much of a states rights guy. That ship has sailed IMO.

I knew you would admit it sooner or later.


.

Yup. Loncoln and I, me and Lincoln. We're Americans, not Georgians or Mainans or whatever.

If I ever hid that my apologies.

Any progress yet concerning if minimum wage increases raise inflation by raising wages or if minimum wage increases lower wages?

BTW, if incomes rise also reasonable inflation helps hide fixed long term borrowing costs. That type of thing fixes or hides our real estate demand problems. So I'm not concerned if wages and inflation rise together.

No you're against freedom..you want everything to be the same across America.. (as Long as you get to decide)


.

Exactly! Political diversity scares them. And he admitted in a previous post that since they find it more difficult to impose their wills on states they prefer to do it it federally.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Then you wont be needing a law. Excuse me..a "federal" law.

Yeah, I want a Federal law or mandate all 50 states need to meet this minimum or whatever. We're all in it together. On a side note, I'm tired of Missouri and Virginia and all the little cities around here out competing each other in attempts to give tax breaks to billionaires.

I shall not hide that just like Abraham Lincoln I'm not much of a states rights guy. That ship has sailed IMO.

I knew you would admit it sooner or later.


.

Yup. Loncoln and I, me and Lincoln. We're Americans, not Georgians or Mainans or whatever.

If I ever hid that my apologies.

Any progress yet concerning if minimum wage increases raise inflation by raising wages or if minimum wage increases lower wages?

BTW, if incomes rise also reasonable inflation helps hide fixed long term borrowing costs. That type of thing fixes or hides our real estate demand problems. So I'm not concerned if wages and inflation rise together.

No you're against freedom..you want everything to be the same across America.. (as Long as you get to decide)


.

Exactly! Political diversity scares them. And he admitted in a previous post that since they find it more difficult to impose their wills on states they prefer to do it it federally.

That's why they want to get rid of the EC is to bully smaller states isn't that right
Pogo

 

[DOTR]

Yeah, I want a Federal law or mandate all 50 states need to meet this minimum or whatever. We're all in it together. On a side note, I'm tired of Missouri and Virginia and all the little cities around here out competing each other in attempts to give tax breaks to billionaires.

I shall not hide that just like Abraham Lincoln I'm not much of a states rights guy. That ship has sailed IMO.

I knew you would admit it sooner or later.


.

Yup. Loncoln and I, me and Lincoln. We're Americans, not Georgians or Mainans or whatever.

If I ever hid that my apologies.

Any progress yet concerning if minimum wage increases raise inflation by raising wages or if minimum wage increases lower wages?

BTW, if incomes rise also reasonable inflation helps hide fixed long term borrowing costs. That type of thing fixes or hides our real estate demand problems. So I'm not concerned if wages and inflation rise together.

No you're against freedom..you want everything to be the same across America.. (as Long as you get to decide)


.

Exactly! Political diversity scares them. And he admitted in a previous post that since they find it more difficult to impose their wills on states they prefer to do it it federally.

That's why they want to get rid of the EC is to bully smaller states isn't that right
Pogo

Wanna be tyrants always favor centralization. Since when did authoritarians ever allow local government accountable to the people rather than themselves? Its is a sign of freedom where people are trusted to govern themselves.

Can you imagine Stalin or Hitler saying "its ok..this particular area of power doesn't belong to me"?

 

[Wyatt earp]

I knew you would admit it sooner or later.


.

Yup. Loncoln and I, me and Lincoln. We're Americans, not Georgians or Mainans or whatever.

If I ever hid that my apologies.

Any progress yet concerning if minimum wage increases raise inflation by raising wages or if minimum wage increases lower wages?

BTW, if incomes rise also reasonable inflation helps hide fixed long term borrowing costs. That type of thing fixes or hides our real estate demand problems. So I'm not concerned if wages and inflation rise together.

No you're against freedom..you want everything to be the same across America.. (as Long as you get to decide)


.

Exactly! Political diversity scares them. And he admitted in a previous post that since they find it more difficult to impose their wills on states they prefer to do it it federally.

That's why they want to get rid of the EC is to bully smaller states isn't that right
Pogo

Wanna be tyrants always favor centralization. Since when did authoritarians ever allow local government accountable to the people rather than themselves? Its is a sign of freedom where people are trusted to govern themselves.

Can you imagine Stalin or Hitler saying "its ok..this particular area of power doesn't belong to me"?

Damn...


I know I have been reading this attitude since before the internet long before, someone is pissed because a county over lured a factory , to them it's not fair they could do it with tax breaks..

They wanted the money and dictate the rules.


.

 

[Toronado3800]

Yup. Loncoln and I, me and Lincoln. We're Americans, not Georgians or Mainans or whatever.

If I ever hid that my apologies.

Any progress yet concerning if minimum wage increases raise inflation by raising wages or if minimum wage increases lower wages?

BTW, if incomes rise also reasonable inflation helps hide fixed long term borrowing costs. That type of thing fixes or hides our real estate demand problems. So I'm not concerned if wages and inflation rise together.

No you're against freedom..you want everything to be the same across America.. (as Long as you get to decide)


.

Exactly! Political diversity scares them. And he admitted in a previous post that since they find it more difficult to impose their wills on states they prefer to do it it federally.

That's why they want to get rid of the EC is to bully smaller states isn't that right
Pogo

Wanna be tyrants always favor centralization. Since when did authoritarians ever allow local government accountable to the people rather than themselves? Its is a sign of freedom where people are trusted to govern themselves.

Can you imagine Stalin or Hitler saying "its ok..this particular area of power doesn't belong to me"?

Damn...


I know I have been reading this attitude since before the internet long before, someone is pissed because a county over lured a factory , to them it's not fair they could do it with tax breaks..

They wanted the money and dictate the rules.


.

Ey, I missed your answer about the effects of minimum wage again?

But yeah, have fun you tyrant wanting big government to pick the economic winners who get tax breaks for being more equal

 

[Wyatt earp]

No you're against freedom..you want everything to be the same across America.. (as Long as you get to decide)


.

Exactly! Political diversity scares them. And he admitted in a previous post that since they find it more difficult to impose their wills on states they prefer to do it it federally.

That's why they want to get rid of the EC is to bully smaller states isn't that right
Pogo

Wanna be tyrants always favor centralization. Since when did authoritarians ever allow local government accountable to the people rather than themselves? Its is a sign of freedom where people are trusted to govern themselves.

Can you imagine Stalin or Hitler saying "its ok..this particular area of power doesn't belong to me"?

Damn...


I know I have been reading this attitude since before the internet long before, someone is pissed because a county over lured a factory , to them it's not fair they could do it with tax breaks..

They wanted the money and dictate the rules.


.

Ey, I missed your answer about the effects of minimum wage again?

But yeah, have fun you tyrant wanting big government to pick the economic winners who get tax breaks for being more equal

Don't give me any of that you want your pie and eat it too .


You don't want the county down the road to compete against you.


.

 

[danielpalos]

I knew you would admit it sooner or later.


.

Yup. Loncoln and I, me and Lincoln. We're Americans, not Georgians or Mainans or whatever.

If I ever hid that my apologies.

Any progress yet concerning if minimum wage increases raise inflation by raising wages or if minimum wage increases lower wages?

BTW, if incomes rise also reasonable inflation helps hide fixed long term borrowing costs. That type of thing fixes or hides our real estate demand problems. So I'm not concerned if wages and inflation rise together.

No you're against freedom..you want everything to be the same across America.. (as Long as you get to decide)


.

Exactly! Political diversity scares them. And he admitted in a previous post that since they find it more difficult to impose their wills on states they prefer to do it it federally.

That's why they want to get rid of the EC is to bully smaller states isn't that right
Pogo

Wanna be tyrants always favor centralization. Since when did authoritarians ever allow local government accountable to the people rather than themselves? Its is a sign of freedom where people are trusted to govern themselves.

Can you imagine Stalin or Hitler saying "its ok..this particular area of power doesn't belong to me"?

what is your point? we have a federal form of Government, regardless.