Ideas for fixing minimum wage.

[dblack]

The Logic is that the minimum someone should earn who work a job is enough to pay the rent and buy some food ie a living wage.

If someone else wants to take a job that doesn't provide them with the lifestyle you prefer - why should it be any of your business? Why do you think you have a right, via government or otherwise, to tell other people what jobs they can and can't take?

Having a job and still making so little you qualify for Government handouts defeats the purpose of having a job.

People have different purposes for having a job. Why do you feel justified in telling them what that purpose must be? Regardless, the handouts thing is a problem. The welfare state has the unfortunate side-effect of driving wages down - people don't need to make as much at a job if they're getting income from other sources. But the way to deal with problems caused by welfare is to change the way we do welfare, not dictate wages via government.

If all you can get is a minimum wage job then you shouldn't have kids. If you can't feed yourself you shouldn't get pregnant. If you can't afford birth control you shouldn't have sex.

You gotta lotta shoulds and shouldn'ts. Ever consider minding your own business?

 

[danielpalos]

Tax incentives for business topped $80B this year mostly for capital investment.

Are you trying to sound stupid?

Then post the number.

We need to ban the use of tax incentives. The Constitution grants the taxation power to government to raise revenue for its legitimate functions. It was never meant to be a tool for manipulating society.

Then presumably you would be opposed to the government trying to manipulate society by imposing a minimum wage, since it is clear the framers of the Constitution had nothing of this sort in mind.

Yep.

or, manipulate society with useless crime, drug, and terror wars the right wing refuses to pay for.

 

[OnePercenter]

Eliminate the economic advantage of smart machines by eliminating tax incentives.

There is no tax incentive to replace low skilled workers with smart machines.

Tax incentives for business topped $80B this year mostly for capital investment.

Are you trying to sound stupid?

Then post the number.

There is no clear relationship between the alleged $80 billion and replacing low skilled workers with smart machines, however, there is a clear relationship between a too high minimum wage and replacing workers with smart machines.

Which is why you eliminate all business deductions except employee expenses.

 

[OnePercenter]

Then post the number.

We need to ban the use of tax incentives. The Constitution grants the taxation power to government to raise revenue for its legitimate functions. It was never meant to be a tool for manipulating society.

Then presumably you would be opposed to the government trying to manipulate society by imposing a minimum wage, since it is clear the framers of the Constitution had nothing of this sort in mind.

Yep.

So you're opposed to the minimum wage?

Yes. What are you getting at?

So you are pro crony capitalism?

 

[OnePercenter]

So you're opposed to the minimum wage?

Yes. What are you getting at?

I'm not getting at anything. I was just surprised to learn you are opposed to the minimum wage.

Hmm... Ok. Why's that?

Because you seemed to be critical of my explanations of why a minimum wage would have either no effect or a negative effect on the welfare of the very people it is supposed to help.

Maybe you mixed me up with someone else. Minimum wage laws are populist nonsense in my book.

Since 60% of the US economy is based on middle class (now poor with credit) spending, don't minimum wage laws promote the economy?

 

[OnePercenter]

I have cracked it!

This is the optimum solution.

Raise the minimum wage to $200 an hour and give all people on minimum wage a free BMW.

This will be an incredible boost to the economy.

Please don't thank me.

It's funny because this is really the logic behind minimum wage laws.

Or is it an effort to protect employees from predator employers.

 

[MisterBeale]

Dear Tornado Person:

No intelligent person wants to significantly increase the minimum wage. Notice that when the Democrats had control of both house and the White House in Obama's first term, NOTHING was done on the minimum wage.

The minimum wage ITSELF is an economic abomination. The price of EVERYTHING should be determined by the marketplace and everyone's right of contract. If I am willing to sweep floors for $5/hr, and there is an employer who desires to employ me at that rate to sweep his floors, WHAT RIGHT DOES GOVERNMENT HAVE TO STEP IN AND SAY WE CANNOT ENTER INTO THIS CONTRACT?

Seriously. How does Government get the right to do this?

There is a natural minimum wage in every place at all times. If I tried to hire a fast food worker in NYC for $8/hr, I would get no takers. $10, probably not. But there is a wage at which I could get the workers I want, and they would be willing to work for that wage. The numbers would be less in Keokuk, Iowa.

Democrats like to point to local Minimum Wage laws that are. harmless, to "prove" that increasing the minimum wage doesn't harm anyone. But they choose locations where the natural minimum wage is already far above the legal minimum wage, so that the local law is actually irrelevant. But look at what's happening in Seattle. Hours are being cut, business near the city limits are closing due to competition, people are losing their jobs.

And remember that the people who are hurt by this are the people at the bottom of the economic totem pole - the ones who can least afford the hit. People with no HS diploma, single parents working part time to make ends meet. And so on.

Any time the Government (or any supervening force) steps in and imposes a price (wage) that is higher than the natural minimum, three things occur: (1) the consumers of that commodity use less of it (i.e., hours and headcount are cut), (b) the consumers seek alternatives (automation, self-service), and (3) a black market is formed by people who will skirt the law for their own benefit.

Every minimum wage increase will reduce the chances of high school kids getting part time and summer jobs. At $15/hr, there are a LOT of retired people, working mothers, and others who had given up work, who will come out of the woodwork. And what employer would prefer a pimply high school kid to a retired grandmother?

Such a fine response.

Such a waste of time though. . .

 

[danielpalos]

nobody takes the right wing seriously about economics. vacuums of special pleading is all they know.

 

[OnePercenter]

Dear Tornado Person:

No intelligent person wants to significantly increase the minimum wage. Notice that when the Democrats had control of both house and the White House in Obama's first term, NOTHING was done on the minimum wage.

The minimum wage ITSELF is an economic abomination. The price of EVERYTHING should be determined by the marketplace and everyone's right of contract. If I am willing to sweep floors for $5/hr, and there is an employer who desires to employ me at that rate to sweep his floors, WHAT RIGHT DOES GOVERNMENT HAVE TO STEP IN AND SAY WE CANNOT ENTER INTO THIS CONTRACT?

Seriously. How does Government get the right to do this?

There is a natural minimum wage in every place at all times. If I tried to hire a fast food worker in NYC for $8/hr, I would get no takers. $10, probably not. But there is a wage at which I could get the workers I want, and they would be willing to work for that wage. The numbers would be less in Keokuk, Iowa.

Democrats like to point to local Minimum Wage laws that are. harmless, to "prove" that increasing the minimum wage doesn't harm anyone. But they choose locations where the natural minimum wage is already far above the legal minimum wage, so that the local law is actually irrelevant. But look at what's happening in Seattle. Hours are being cut, business near the city limits are closing due to competition, people are losing their jobs.

And remember that the people who are hurt by this are the people at the bottom of the economic totem pole - the ones who can least afford the hit. People with no HS diploma, single parents working part time to make ends meet. And so on.

Any time the Government (or any supervening force) steps in and imposes a price (wage) that is higher than the natural minimum, three things occur: (1) the consumers of that commodity use less of it (i.e., hours and headcount are cut), (b) the consumers seek alternatives (automation, self-service), and (3) a black market is formed by people who will skirt the law for their own benefit.

Every minimum wage increase will reduce the chances of high school kids getting part time and summer jobs. At $15/hr, there are a LOT of retired people, working mothers, and others who had given up work, who will come out of the woodwork. And what employer would prefer a pimply high school kid to a retired grandmother?

Such a fine response.

Such a waste of time though. . .

Except for the fact we were coming off of the worst economic crash in history caused by BushCo and Corporate America,

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There is no tax incentive to replace low skilled workers with smart machines.

Tax incentives for business topped $80B this year mostly for capital investment.

Are you trying to sound stupid?

Then post the number.

There is no clear relationship between the alleged $80 billion and replacing low skilled workers with smart machines, however, there is a clear relationship between a too high minimum wage and replacing workers with smart machines.

Which is why you eliminate all business deductions except employee expenses.

Which is why you eliminate all business deductions except employee expenses.

Right, because deducting "cost-of-goods-sold" is a loophole. LOL!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes. What are you getting at?

I'm not getting at anything. I was just surprised to learn you are opposed to the minimum wage.

Hmm... Ok. Why's that?

Because you seemed to be critical of my explanations of why a minimum wage would have either no effect or a negative effect on the welfare of the very people it is supposed to help.

Maybe you mixed me up with someone else. Minimum wage laws are populist nonsense in my book.

Since 60% of the US economy is based on middle class (now poor with credit) spending, don't minimum wage laws promote the economy?

Since 60% of the US economy is based on middle class (now poor with credit) spending

How much of the Greek economy is based on consumer spending?

 

[dblack]

Yes. What are you getting at?

I'm not getting at anything. I was just surprised to learn you are opposed to the minimum wage.

Hmm... Ok. Why's that?

Because you seemed to be critical of my explanations of why a minimum wage would have either no effect or a negative effect on the welfare of the very people it is supposed to help.

Maybe you mixed me up with someone else. Minimum wage laws are populist nonsense in my book.

Since 60% of the US economy is based on middle class (now poor with credit) spending, don't minimum wage laws promote the economy?

I don't see how. But I don't think it's government's job to "promote the economy", so the argument is moot in my book.

 

[dblack]

I have cracked it!

This is the optimum solution.

Raise the minimum wage to $200 an hour and give all people on minimum wage a free BMW.

This will be an incredible boost to the economy.

Please don't thank me.

It's funny because this is really the logic behind minimum wage laws.

Or is it an effort to protect employees from predator employers.

What do you mean by "predator employers"? If they're deceiving employees, or coercing them - sure, lock 'em up. But if their only "crime" is paying someone less that what you think is appropriate, that's not preying on anyone. It's just not abiding by your druthers. Too bad.

 

[dblack]

So you are pro crony capitalism?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

 

[danielpalos]

I'm not getting at anything. I was just surprised to learn you are opposed to the minimum wage.

Hmm... Ok. Why's that?

Because you seemed to be critical of my explanations of why a minimum wage would have either no effect or a negative effect on the welfare of the very people it is supposed to help.

Maybe you mixed me up with someone else. Minimum wage laws are populist nonsense in my book.

Since 60% of the US economy is based on middle class (now poor with credit) spending, don't minimum wage laws promote the economy?

I don't see how. But I don't think it's government's job to "promote the economy", so the argument is moot in my book.

Both terms are used for the general welfare, to promote and to provide.

 

[danielpalos]

I have cracked it!

This is the optimum solution.

Raise the minimum wage to $200 an hour and give all people on minimum wage a free BMW.

This will be an incredible boost to the economy.

Please don't thank me.

It's funny because this is really the logic behind minimum wage laws.

Or is it an effort to protect employees from predator employers.

What do you mean by "predator employers"? If they're deceiving employees, or coercing them - sure, lock 'em up. But if their only "crime" is paying someone less that what you think is appropriate, that's not preying on anyone. It's just not abiding by your druthers. Too bad.

Social services cost around fourteen dollars an hour by comparison and contrast. There is no reason to subsidize Capitalists with Cheap labor in a First World economy.

 

[Paulie]

The CPI doesn't just increase, so what happens when the CPI decreases? Minimum wage decreases proportionally because goods and services are now costing less?

 

[danielpalos]

The CPI doesn't just increase, so what happens when the CPI decreases? Minimum wage decreases proportionally because goods and services are now costing less?

It isn't adjusted every day.

 

[OnePercenter]

Tax incentives for business topped $80B this year mostly for capital investment.

Are you trying to sound stupid?

Then post the number.

There is no clear relationship between the alleged $80 billion and replacing low skilled workers with smart machines, however, there is a clear relationship between a too high minimum wage and replacing workers with smart machines.

Which is why you eliminate all business deductions except employee expenses.

Which is why you eliminate all business deductions except employee expenses.

Right, because deducting "cost-of-goods-sold" is a loophole. LOL!

It is. Why should a business be able to deduct the cost of doing business when an employee can't?

 

[OnePercenter]

I'm not getting at anything. I was just surprised to learn you are opposed to the minimum wage.

Hmm... Ok. Why's that?

Because you seemed to be critical of my explanations of why a minimum wage would have either no effect or a negative effect on the welfare of the very people it is supposed to help.

Maybe you mixed me up with someone else. Minimum wage laws are populist nonsense in my book.

Since 60% of the US economy is based on middle class (now poor with credit) spending, don't minimum wage laws promote the economy?

Since 60% of the US economy is based on middle class (now poor with credit) spending

How much of the Greek economy is based on consumer spending?

Focus! This isn't Greece!