If A Suitcase Nuke Went Off In NY

[Gunny]

Well hush my mouth, things are going so well in Iraq and in Afghanistan and bin Laden's been arrested and AQ are out of business and everything's all good again. Stop whining. Bush, Cheney and the rest of them are responsible for the biggest cockup in US foreign policy history. And let me say, you ain't seen nothin' yet. Get a grip on reality. Even with bipartisan support they managed to screw it up completely. They didn't need any help from anyone else, they - the incompeted, close-minded, arrogant fools - have done this.

Perhaps YOU may wish to get that "grip." Iraq is nowhere near the "biggest cockup" in US foreign policy history.

 

[Gunny]

How's about if one went off in your tighty whities? Of course, far be for Republicans to put loyalty to party and president above country, which they do EVERY TIME they vote AGAINST bring our troops home. So, before you start slinging your insinuations and accusations that anyone opposed to the war in Iraq is somehow less of an American than you, why don't you back your words with actions? Why don't YOU go to Iraq and carry out the Bush administration's failed policy in Iraq.

Pot calling the strwman kettle black. Liberals are infamous for putting "self" above and beyond country and anything else.

And I'll go to Iraq and finish what we started just as soon as you get me appointed Cmdr of SouthCom and allow me to do it MY way.

 

[CSM]

Perhaps YOU may wish to get that "grip." Iraq is nowhere near the "biggest cockup" in US foreign policy history.

I have to agree... one small consolation to me is that the US is not the only nation on the planet that has stumbled occassionally.

 

[Gunny]

I have to agree... one small consolation to me is that the US is not the only nation on the planet that has stumbled occassionally.

The former penal colony and its inahbitants got in line to kiss MacArthur's and the US's asses when we were the only thing that stood bwtween them and nationally-mandated kimonos.

 

[CSM]

The former penal colony and its inahbitants got in line to kiss MacArthur's and the US's asses when we were the only thing that stood bwtween them and nationally-mandated kimonos.

That was different....they NEEDED the US then. Of course, I don't recall reading/hearing about the number of US soldiers being killed daily during that time.

 

[Gunny]

That was different....they NEEDED the US then. Of course, I don't recall reading/hearing about the number of US soldiers being killed daily during that time.

I just can't ever get over the fact that our biggest critics are always the weak people we have saved. Wonder how the tune would sound had we just minded our own business during both World Wars.

 

[CSM]

I just can't ever get over the fact that our biggest critics are always the weak people we have saved. Wonder how the tune would sound had we just minded our own business during both World Wars.

The tune would sound either Japanese or German. No doubt there would be some volatile invective (whining) about how the US refused to help.

 

[Gunny]

The tune would sound either Japanese or German. No doubt there would be some volatile invective (whining) about how the US refused to help.

Of course. Whatever convict descendants could escape, would be banded together somewhere in the US demanding reparations for ignoring their plight.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Pot calling the strwman kettle black. Liberals are infamous for putting "self" above and beyond country and anything else.

And I'll go to Iraq and finish what we started just as soon as you get me appointed Cmdr of SouthCom and allow me to do it MY way.

Anyone who has served in the military has demonstrated their willingness to put themselves in harms way to protect this nation and the ideals it was founded upon. I have done so...you have done so...and so have all the other vets who post here. The fault lies solely with Bush and his administration, in their pursuit of THEIR war of choice in Iraq, for the defamation of the memories of those who have fallen in that cause and the continued misuse and abuse of the loyalty of those who continue to serve in that cause.

So, continue to support the administration...We will all come to regret it.

 

[Gunny]

Anyone who has served in the military has demonstrated their willingness to put themselves in harms way to protect this nation and the ideals it was founded upon. I have done so...you have done so...and so have all the other vets who post here. The fault lies solely with Bush and his administration, in their pursuit of THEIR war of choice in Iraq, for the defamation of the memories of those who have fallen in that cause and the continued misuse and abuse of the loyalty of those who continue to serve in that cause.

So, continue to support the administration...We will all come to regret it.

The differnence between you and I however, is that when it's the United States vs _____, I supported Clinton and even Jimmy as the Head of State and representative of this Nation to the world.

When the shit's already in the fan, I don't crawfish because I suddenly don't like the smell.

Otherwise, I don't support this administration as anything more than the lesser of two evils as choices in the last two elections.

 

[CSM]

The differnence between you and I however, is that when it's the United States vs _____, I supported Clinton and even Jimmy as the Head of State and representative of this Nation to the world.

When the shit's already in the fan, I don't crawfish because I suddenly don't like the smell.

Otherwise, I don't support this administration as anything more than the lesser of two evils as choices in the last two elections.

Amen

 

[maineman]

I'm considering starting a support group.

One of the more disturbing aspects of the failures is those who refuse to see them. WTF? Take the blinders off, try being honest. Look, I've said it before and I'll say it again, ultimately, and I'm sure we'll disagree on this, I have no problem with having taken Saddam down, hell, I have no problem with the idea of taking down any other dictator who oppresses his people, but until we had hoisted Osama bin Laden's head into the air on the end of a pike, Iraq should have stayed the fuck out of those neo-cons mouths.

Some days I wonder, if not for the influence of the neo-con wing of the party, how would Bush be percieved? How would he have performed his duties?

With Osama's head on a pike being paraded around Times Square...with his headless body being wrapped in the carcass of a pig and buried in an unmarked grave...I do not know WHAT I would feel about the invasion that deposed Saddam. I guess until we had done more than decapitate OBL and had really taken steps to effectively and comprehensively neutralize the threat of Islamic extremists, I would still be against it, but certainly not to the degree I am today.

I still believe that the war in Iraq has created way more ill will against America than it has eliminated... I still think that it has squandered an opportunity to coalesce the post 9/11 righteous indignation of the world into a force for peace.

 

[Diuretic]

Terrorists, that's who. Or do you think the attacks prior to Iraq were a US conspiracy? You refuse to believe the leaders of this country and you refuse to believe that the terrorists (including AQ) want the US destroyed, the infidel killed and the restoration of the Calliphate. SO I have to ask: Who do you believe?

That's not an invasion, that's just terrorism. I mean it's not like you'd see bin Laden on a throne in DC is it? Look the reality is that the US would not be taken over by anyone from outside the country. The biggest threat to the US is your own government, the one that's there now, the one with the president who's acting like an Emperor.

Why should I believe the Bush Administration about anything? I mean feel free to keep yourself in a duped state but for mine I'll take everything they say with a truckload of salt.

 

[Diuretic]

Perhaps YOU may wish to get that "grip." Iraq is nowhere near the "biggest cockup" in US foreign policy history.

If it isn't then the real one must be a beauty. Can you point it out for me?

 

[Diuretic]

The former penal colony and its inahbitants got in line to kiss MacArthur's and the US's asses when we were the only thing that stood bwtween them and nationally-mandated kimonos.

It was our soldiers who inflicted the first ground defeat on Japanese forces in New Guinea. And it was in the strategic interests of the US to help Australia - yes, help us she did and it was probably the Battle of the Coral Sea that decided the beginning of the end for the Japanese in the Pacific.

So what? I'm grateful, we're all grateful but that doesn't mean we have to kiss Bush's arse does it?

And exactly where did MacArthur make his famous "I shall return" speech?

 

[Diuretic]

I just can't ever get over the fact that our biggest critics are always the weak people we have saved. Wonder how the tune would sound had we just minded our own business during both World Wars.

You tried hard enough. I mean you only fought in the last bit of WWI - probably waiting to see how it was going eh, don't want to back a loser. And it took Pearl Harbor for you to get interested in WWII. Unreliable allies, fairweather friends, in it for yourselves. Get over your own bullshit, you'll see things much clearer.

 

[Diuretic]

Of course. Whatever convict descendants could escape, would be banded together somewhere in the US demanding reparations for ignoring their plight.

The convict slur is old. Remember the US was Britain's penal colony before 1788. Besides my state was settled by free settlers not convicts. Get your facts straight before slinging shit or it comes right back at you.

 

[Bullypulpit]

The differnence between you and I however, is that when it's the United States vs _____, I supported Clinton and even Jimmy as the Head of State and representative of this Nation to the world.

When the shit's already in the fan, I don't crawfish because I suddenly don't like the smell.

Otherwise, I don't support this administration as anything more than the lesser of two evils as choices in the last two elections.

As I did while I served. But since my active duty and even my inactive reserve status have long since ended, I'm not bound by the part of the oath which requires "...that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me..." . I still, however feel obligated to honor the the first part of the oath which required "...that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same...". As far as I' concerned, its the price of citizenship.

As for the military, under the UCMJ 809.ART.90 (20) members of the military are obligated to follow the LAWFUL orders issued by the President and superior officers. Unlawful orders are those orders which are contrary to the principles laid down in the UCMJ or the Constitution or federal law. As such members of the military are not obligated to follow those orders.

Now, since the Constitution makes treaties which the US is signatory to "the law of the land", in ordering US forces to invade and occupy Iraq, President Bush likely violated a number of treaties the US is signatory to, including the Geneva Conventions and the Nuremberg Conventions. The latter stating that, "planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements, or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for accomplishment of any of the forgoing." constitute a crime against peace. And of course, there is the UN Charter, Article 51 which outlines the criteria for national self-defense...none of which Iraq met.

I never denounced the invasion of Iraq, because I "...didn't like the smell...". I denounced and protested against it because it was illegal and had absolutely nothing to do with taking down Al Qaeda. I stand opposed to the occupation of Iraq as it failed, utterly, to meet the standards laid out in the Geneva Conventions for the responsibilities of a belligerent occupying power. I stand opposed to Bush's War for its continuing and ongoing betrayal of the trust of the men and women who put on the uniform of America's armed forces.

After 9/11, the Bush administration had my full support as it went into Afghanistan to route out that nest of vipers. But they took their eye off of the real enemy, and went haring off into Iraq so Bush could work off his chubby for Saddam. As result, we have Al Qaeda reconstituted in Pakistan as, if not stronger, than before 9/11...Depending on who you believe. Osama bin Laden remains free and at large, this despite Bush's "dead-or-alive" rhetoric. The Taliban are regaining control in Afghanistan. The whole region is becoming more unstable the longer our forces remain in Iraq.

So...Continue to support the present course if that's what you want. Just be careful though as you may get what you wish for. And we'll all be the worse off for it.

 

[red states rule]

You tried hard enough. I mean you only fought in the last bit of WWI - probably waiting to see how it was going eh, don't want to back a loser. And it took Pearl Harbor for you to get interested in WWII. Unreliable allies, fairweather friends, in it for yourselves. Get over your own bullshit, you'll see things much clearer.

and how many people has your tiny little island nation liberated?

at leats your President understood the threat terrorists posed and won reelection

 

[Diuretic]

and how many people has your tiny little island nation liberated?

at leats your President understood the threat terrorists posed and won reelection

- we're down to that?

Hey we never invaded anyone to steal their oil. Oh wait, we did, we joined the Bush gang in Iraq. Jeez that's a terminal embarrassment geting hooked up with those losers. Oh well, we'll get over it and our Prime Minister (we're a constiutional monarchy like Canada, that's the country north of your 49th parallel, you know Canada, got a neat flag and great beer) is on the skids and we're going to kick the little sucker out on his arse. We know Bush is screwup and our own screwup sucked up t him so - out the door with him