If Barack Obama was not born in the U.S., would you still vote for him?

[morpheus]

A lot of people keep ignoring what Abelian Sea and RetiredGySgt pointed out several times.

A person born abroad to at least one American parent, automatically becomes an American citizen by birth.

I have American citizen cousins born abroad (and they've lived most their lives abroad). There's some additional preconditions as Abelian Sea pointed out. The American parent must have lived in the US at some point. So, if any of you have a child that's born abroad, that child is an American national at birth, provided that you declare the child at your nearest US consulate (I would assume that for military personnel, the base does all the paperwork for you?).

Thus McCain is a naturally-born American citizen. Obama, having an American mother, would have been a naturally-born American regardless of where he was born: Hawaii, New Hampshire, Indonesia, Finland, Timbuktu, or Easter Island.

Being born on a military base is not the reason people become US citizens when born abroad. The United States tehcnically does not have legal sovereignty over the vast majority of US bases. These are -legally- US bases on foreign land, although I think that the Panama Canal Zone was considered US soil before the handover to Panama. But US bases in Germany, Italy, Britain, Japan, Korea, etc, are on foreign soil. Even Guantanamo Bay is technically not US soil, which is why the Bush administration claimed it had found a loophole regarding how it can treat Guantanamo Bay prisoners (although the loophole was hogwash, because the Geneva Conventions still apply). Guantanamo Bay is on loan to the United States by 1903 treaty, but is still Cuban soil. Castro's government contests the legality of this treaty, but they've never done anything to retake the area after the 1959 revolution.

 

[jillian]

The whole argument is BS anyway.. .they KNOW he's a citizen. They KNOW he was born in Hawaii....

it's just the psychos doing their thing.

 

[Red Dawn]

The whole argument is BS anyway.. .they KNOW he's a citizen. They KNOW he was born in Hawaii....

it's just the psychos doing their thing.

McCain was born in Panama. No one here is questioning if he's an american citizen, or a panamanian.

The level of discourse on this board is pretty pathetic, when you've got people asking if Obama is a secret muslim, or if he isn't really an american citizen.

 

[jillian]

McCain was born in Panama. No one here is questioning if he's an american citizen, or a panamanian.

The level of discourse on this board is pretty pathetic, when you've got people asking if Obama is a secret muslim, or if he isn't really an american citizen.

It's not just here. It's the whole Rovian way of doing things... whispering campaigns; scandalous (if untrue) accusations...but the kind that resonates for the fringes.

I figure no one should be discussing either McCain or Obama in regard to their citizenship or patriotism... there are too many important issues out there.

 

[Care4all]

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

 

[Gunny]

McCain was born in Panama. No one here is questioning if he's an american citizen, or a panamanian.

The level of discourse on this board is pretty pathetic, when you've got people asking if Obama is a secret muslim, or if he isn't really an american citizen.

I won't argue the validity of the questions, but what does it say about the level of discourse when the people being asked the questions can't do anything but squeal, deflect and/or make counteraccusations that have nothing to do with the questions?

If the accusations are untrue and the facts support it, then produce the facts. Kind of shuts everyone that way.

I'd also suggest you take a look at some of the "level" of the questions and shit beign thrown from YOUR side of the aisle before you attempt to take some pseudo-superior stance.

 

[AllieBaba]

I thought it was if one is an American citizen and 18 years old? Didn't somebody say that?

If he was born in Hawaii, where's the proof?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I won't argue the validity of the questions, but what does it say about the level of discourse when the people being asked the questions can't do anything but squeal, deflect and/or make counteraccusations that have nothing to do with the questions?

If the accusations are untrue and the facts support it, then produce the facts. Kind of shuts everyone that way.

I'd also suggest you take a look at some of the "level" of the questions and shit beign thrown from YOUR side of the aisle before you attempt to take some pseudo-superior stance.

Gunny in this single case Hawaii has already weighed in on the issue and STATED that his birth certificate is legal and that he was BORN in Hawaii. But your right about how the left normally conducts business. And that has not shut anyone up.

 

[Care4all]

I thought it was if one is an American citizen and 18 years old? Didn't somebody say that?

If he was born in Hawaii, where's the proof?

how many times do i have to post this?

HERE IS THE PROOF....

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.

Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.

Summary

In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

PLEASE , for a change, READ IT , Allie....read it....for goodness sakes!

 

[AllieBaba]

Well then. Last I checked, it was a crappy xerox or something, and there was still a question about his real place of birth.

Darn, was so hoping for the end of the Democratic party!

 

[AllieBaba]

This is all so stupid. You can order a new birth certificate, I just recently did for myself and my two younger kids after losing my purse and realizing I didn't have birth certificates, which made it very difficult to replace things like driver's license etc. Some states are quicker than others, but anyone can look this stuff up. So why does it go on and on if there's no truth to it?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This is all so stupid. You can order a new birth certificate, I just recently did for myself and my two younger kids after losing my purse and realizing I didn't have birth certificates, which made it very difficult to replace things like driver's license etc. Some states are quicker than others, but anyone can look this stuff up. So why does it go on and on if there's no truth to it?

Because people like you do not want to know the truth. You prefer the conspiracy. Hawaii settled this when it started. You have been linked to that many times and yet until it was quoted for you, you kept and continue to make the claim he was not born in Hawaii.

I do not want Obama as President, but I will NOT lie to prevent him from being elected if the people chose him. That is how our system works. Unlike the left the right accepts when they are not elected and does the best with what they have. Your desire for a quick fix is nothing more than wishful thinking. Do not stoop to the lefts whining and crying about how they were somehow magically cheated.

 

[42Presidents]

Yes you can if you are a natural US citizen, that means a parent is American. Hate to burst your bubble. But this is mute cause Hawaii has stated his birth certificate is real and valid.

I agree, moot point. I learned some things from this discussion.

 

[AllieBaba]

Because people like you do not want to know the truth. You prefer the conspiracy. Hawaii settled this when it started. You have been linked to that many times and yet until it was quoted for you, you kept and continue to make the claim he was not born in Hawaii.

I do not want Obama as President, but I will NOT lie to prevent him from being elected if the people chose him. That is how our system works. Unlike the left the right accepts when they are not elected and does the best with what they have. Your desire for a quick fix is nothing more than wishful thinking. Do not stoop to the lefts whining and crying about how they were somehow magically cheated.

I don't do conspiracy. I do however know what's invovled in proving citizenship and I'm curious about how this hasn't been put to rest if his citz. is a non-issue. If it's an issue it needs to be explored. And I've never claimed he wasn't born in Hawaii. I've asked questions about it, there's a difference. I don't believe I've once claimed he was born anywhere at all. If you know different, find the quote or post a link.

 

[Article 15]

Just too funny ... and merits a repost ...

how many times do i have to post this?

HERE IS THE PROOF....

FactCheck.org: Born in the U.S.A.



PLEASE , for a change, READ IT , Allie....read it....for goodness sakes!

In the face of evidence ...

Well then. Last I checked, it was a crappy xerox or something, and there was still a question about his real place of birth.

Darn, was so hoping for the end of the Democratic party!

5 minutes later ...

This is all so stupid. You can order a new birth certificate, I just recently did for myself and my two younger kids after losing my purse and realizing I didn't have birth certificates, which made it very difficult to replace things like driver's license etc. Some states are quicker than others, but anyone can look this stuff up. So why does it go on and on if there's no truth to it?

It keeps going on and on, Allie, because of people like you can be proven wrong and no more than 5 minutes later you go about and perpetuate the same damn lie that was just debunked as if it never happened.

You don't expect to be taken seriously, do you?

 

[AllieBaba]

And it's MOOT point, MOOT. Not MUTE. A MUTE is someone who has had his tongue cut out or otherwise cannot talk.

MOOT means of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

I don't usually care about occasional spelling flub ups, or people who can't spell at all...but if you're going to use a word continually when attempting to be rude to people, at least use the correct word to begin with.

 

[Ravi]

Just too funny ... and merits a repost ...



In the face of evidence ...



5 minutes later ...



It keeps going on and on, Allie, because of people like you can be proven wrong and no more than 5 minutes later you go about and perpetuate the same damn lie that was just debunked as if it never happened.

You don't expect to be taken seriously, do you?

The sad thing is, people do take this seriously. I know for a fact that my neighbor has heard this so many times he now believes it...without a single shred of proof and nary a question in his mind.

And quite honestly, the more it gets debunked, the more it gets in people's heads...and the more people believe it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Just too funny ... and merits a repost ...



In the face of evidence ...



5 minutes later ...



It keeps going on and on, Allie, because of people like you can be proven wrong and no more than 5 minutes later you go about and perpetuate the same damn lie that was just debunked as if it never happened.

You don't expect to be taken seriously, do you?

Ok, once more for the peanut gallery....

I read the link which said that the birth certificate had been examined. I referred to it. I shared my information as well, which is that a birth certificate by itself (or in conjunction with a newspaper announcement) is not proof of citizenship. Though I'm sure Obama has ID.

So kindly tell me how you've proven me wrong, when I've made no ASSERTION, asswad? What exactly did I say that was WRONG? You guys are so frantic to assume that there is nothing to this that you aren't even listening to what's being said. I never said he was born elsewhere, I just asked questions about his birth and the evidence. I got a link which is fine, and made some observations about birth certificates and such, and you're still crowing about how I've been proved "wrong" about something that I never claimed in the first place.

All I did was ask questions. You won't ever see me sit ignorant for long. Apparently can't say that for the dillholes squawking here.

 

[manifold]

I agree, mute point. I learned some things from this discussion.

Strictly for educational purposes, I feel obligated to once again point out that the correct word is "moot," not "mute." (rhymes with boot).

If you know that the correct word is moot, and this is merely a spelling error, I apologize. I don't want to be accused of being a lame-ass spelling hawk. But since I hear people use mute instead of moot quite often, I'm not making that assumption. For example, Shannon Sharpe makes this mistake at least once a week on the NFL pre-game show and I can't believe nobody has corrected him yet.

Main Entry: moot
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1587
1 a: open to question : debatable b: subjected to discussion : disputed
2: deprived of practical significance : made abstract or purely academic

 

[Article 15]

Ok, once more for the peanut gallery....

I read the link which said that the birth certificate had been examined. I referred to it. I shared my information as well, which is that a birth certificate by itself (or in conjunction with a newspaper announcement) proof of citizenship. Though I'm sure Obama has ID.

So kindly tell me how you've proven me wrong, when I've made no ASSERTION, asswad? What exactly did I say that was WRONG? You guys are so frantic to assume that there is nothing to this that you aren't even listening to what's being said. I never said he was born elsewhere, I just asked questions about his birth and the evidence. I got a link which is fine, and made some observations about birth certificates and such, and you're still crowing about how I've been proved "wrong" about something that I never claimed in the first place.

All I did was ask questions. You won't ever see me sit ignorant for long. Apparently can't say that for the dillholes squawking here.

Nope, no assertion at all ... just merely a "concern troll" approach to it ... or perhaps a "skeptic troll" ... the truth is that you desperately want it to be true ... so in the face of evidence ... you cast doubt ... to keep it alive a little longer ... though deep down you know damn well that you are wrong ... and are fully aware of what you are doing ... and when called out on it the hands go up ... the eyes bat and the childish faux innocent tone comes ... "I was just asking questions" ... or even better you try to turn the tables and act like the defenders of the truth are the ones who are the crazies ... you and your ilk are the Michigan J. Frogs of political discourse.