If Democrats ignore health-care polls, midterms will be costly

[rightwinger]

The government is ALREADY running about half of healthcare in this country.

Prove it

Medicare covers 45 Million Americans. Show me where the other 100 million Americans are in a Government run program.

 

[Murf76]

Government to Pay Over Half of Health Care Costs - MedicineNet - Health and Medical Information Produced by Doctors

 

[Cuyo]

Government to Pay Over Half of Health Care Costs - MedicineNet - Health and Medical Information Produced by Doctors

Bills paid by government insurance programs /= "Government runs healthcare"

 

[rdean]

Insuring kids until they are 26?

Stopping insurance companies from voiding sick people's policies?

Insuring 30 million Americans who don't have insurance?

The top 4 insurance companies only made 12 billion last year. And it was a VERY difficult 12 billion to make. They had to drop 2.7 million sick people to do it.

I'm on the side of the Republicans. Screw the American people. We have corporations to think about. They have rights too. The Supreme Court told us their rights are important too.

 

[Murf76]

Government to Pay Over Half of Health Care Costs - MedicineNet - Health and Medical Information Produced by Doctors

Bills paid by government insurance programs /= "Government runs healthcare"

What? You think they just hand the money out to people?.. that there's no regulation?.. no case management?.. no denied claims? You think they pay out providers in full?


This argument that that Obamacare isn't a "government takeover" is completely disingenuous. It's obvious that it is. And frankly, you folks can be offended by the language all you like. What I'm offended by.. is the ACTION of government taking over our healthcare. You know how Obama can avoid the accusation of "government takeover"?.... by NOT taking over our nation's industries.

This country is a republic, built on the principles of federalism. Central government was supposed to be LIMITED. And every depredation upon our Constitution is a usurpation of power.

 

[Cuyo]

Government to Pay Over Half of Health Care Costs - MedicineNet - Health and Medical Information Produced by Doctors

Bills paid by government insurance programs /= "Government runs healthcare"

What? You think they just hand the money out to people?.. that there's no regulation?.. no case management?.. no denied claims? You think they pay out providers in full?


This argument that that Obamacare isn't a "government takeover" is completely disingenuous. It's obvious that it is. And frankly, you folks can be offended by the language all you like. What I'm offended by.. is the ACTION of government taking over our healthcare. You know how Obama can avoid the accusation of "government takeover"?.... by NOT taking over our nation's industries.

This country is a republic, built on the principles of federalism. Central government was supposed to be LIMITED. And every depredation upon our Constitution is a usurpation of power.

Both parties moved to the left after the WWII era. The reason for this? Our population and economy were becoming too large to remain stable without a stronger federal government to insure order and stability. In short, evolution.

I trust the government over a private insurer any day when I get sick as fuck. You see, the private insurer has a vested financial interest in finding an excuse to drop me. The private insurer makes more money if I die. The government has no such interest.

All this batshit crazy ranting about socialism and fascism and all that noise will subside when the economy improves. Watch. I have a feeling you'll still be barking somewhere, but nobody will be listening.

 

[driveby]

OK Murph

I'm calling you on it. Show me where the Bill is a "Government Takeover"

Quite simple....

Take out "pre-existing conditions" clauses and not a single insurer will survive. It will be impossible.

And all will be forced into a government plan.

I suggest the congress and the administration call it what it is and explain why....and people may support it.

It is a long term government takeover of healthcare...and for good or bad, it will cost all of us a fortune.

Absolute nonsense. The pre-existing condition clause allows insurance companies to deny insurance to those who need it most.

Medicare denies more claims than any insurance company, so maybe you assholes should start there ...........

 

[Murf76]

Both parties moved to the left after the WWII era. The reason for this? Our population and economy were becoming too large to remain stable without a stronger federal government to insure order and stability. In short, evolution.

I trust the government over a private insurer any day when I get sick as fuck. You see, the private insurer has a vested financial interest in finding an excuse to drop me. The private insurer makes more money if I die. The government has no such interest.

All this batshit crazy ranting about socialism and fascism and all that noise will subside when the economy improves. Watch. I have a feeling you'll still be barking somewhere, but nobody will be listening.

That's not "evolution". That's usurpation. It's top-down control, diluting the power of the sovereign citizen who's best served by bottom-up governance which allows him more control over his immediate environment.

What's more, diluting the power of citizens, states, and localities increases CORRUPTION. You people bitch and whine about special interests and corporatism... but you never THINK about how much easier it is to do that when power is centralized. And you never think about how we ALL pay for any economic blunders that are made along the way when they're made at the very top. If a state government makes a mistake, it doesn't take down the entire fucking economy.

You "trust" government more than private companies? Bully for you. That makes you and the 20% of numbskulls who self-identify as liberals. Try SUING the government sometime when they've denied your claim or broken their word. What's your recourse going to be when there no fair arbiter to settle disputes and the government who was supposed to be doing that has a vested interest in the outcome?

Honest to God... some of you people need to start using your head for more than a hat-rack. YOU might be willing to throw away your Liberty with both hands... but you're not welcome to mine.

You think we'll all just "get over it", that we'll all just do as we're told? Dream on. This is NOT 1994 where Democrats take a good drubbing at the midterm and then recover. Barack Obama is no Bill Clinton. He lacks Bill's pragmatism, his executive experience, and his understanding of people. Obama wouldn't recognize bipartisanship if it bit him on the ass. And there's NO SUCCESS to be had without it. You can't alienate half this country and expect to recover from it.

 

[Cuyo]

Quite simple....

Take out "pre-existing conditions" clauses and not a single insurer will survive. It will be impossible.

And all will be forced into a government plan.

I suggest the congress and the administration call it what it is and explain why....and people may support it.

It is a long term government takeover of healthcare...and for good or bad, it will cost all of us a fortune.

Absolute nonsense. The pre-existing condition clause allows insurance companies to deny insurance to those who need it most.

Medicare denies more claims than any insurance company, so maybe you assholes should start there ...........

See, this is where the conversation fails. Why are we assholes, hmmmm?

Medicare doesn't cover everything. It is what it is. If someone is displeased with the service, there are supplemental private plans available. It's a safety net. It was conceived as a way to make sure older Americans had some kind of coverage and did not become a burden on society as they aged and their earning power dwindled. It ain't perfect. Accomplished people who have the money are free to buy supplemental plans that cover more items, or skip Medicare altogether and remain exclusively within the private market.

 

[rdean]

Quite simple....

Take out "pre-existing conditions" clauses and not a single insurer will survive. It will be impossible.

And all will be forced into a government plan.

I suggest the congress and the administration call it what it is and explain why....and people may support it.

It is a long term government takeover of healthcare...and for good or bad, it will cost all of us a fortune.

Absolute nonsense. The pre-existing condition clause allows insurance companies to deny insurance to those who need it most.

Medicare denies more claims than any insurance company, so maybe you assholes should start there ...........

So you're saying government health care is better?

 

[BolshevikHunter]

These clueless nutcases are doing this for another reason. The question now is, who can be bought, and who cannot be bought? A nice dream would be that They all be repeatedly drowned 100 times and then hung by their ankles and beat to death with a rubber hose dipped in Olive oil if this mentally deranged Health Care Bill passes. Start with the bottomfeeders Pelosi and Reid. After all, They are clearly the enemies within.

As far as the madman Obama is concerned, The dunce fraud should be impeached for his arrogance alone. Rahm Emanuel should be deported to Iran. I would personally buy the bath-house vermin carpetbagger's plane ticket. You disgusting scum you! Our Constitution will survive your filth. ~BH

 

[Cuyo]

Both parties moved to the left after the WWII era. The reason for this? Our population and economy were becoming too large to remain stable without a stronger federal government to insure order and stability. In short, evolution.

I trust the government over a private insurer any day when I get sick as fuck. You see, the private insurer has a vested financial interest in finding an excuse to drop me. The private insurer makes more money if I die. The government has no such interest.

All this batshit crazy ranting about socialism and fascism and all that noise will subside when the economy improves. Watch. I have a feeling you'll still be barking somewhere, but nobody will be listening.

That's not "evolution". That's usurpation. It's top-down control, diluting the power of the sovereign citizen who's best served by bottom-up governance which allows him more control over his immediate environment.

What's more, diluting the power of citizens, states, and localities increases CORRUPTION. You people bitch and whine about special interests and corporatism... but you never THINK about how much easier it is to do that when power is centralized. And you never think about how we ALL pay for any economic blunders that are made along the way when they're made at the very top. If a state government makes a mistake, it doesn't take down the entire fucking economy.

You "trust" government more than private companies? Bully for you. That makes you and the 20% of numbskulls who self-identify as liberals. Try SUING the government sometime when they've denied your claim or broken their word. What's your recourse going to be when there no fair arbiter to settle disputes and the government who was supposed to be doing that has a vested interest in the outcome?

Honest to God... some of you people need to start using your head for more than a hat-rack. YOU might be willing to throw away your Liberty with both hands... but you're not welcome to mine.

You think we'll all just "get over it", that we'll all just do as we're told? Dream on. This is NOT 1994 where Democrats take a good drubbing at the midterm and then recover. Barack Obama is no Bill Clinton. He lacks Bill's pragmatism, his executive experience, and his understanding of people. Obama wouldn't recognize bipartisanship if it bit him on the ass. And there's NO SUCCESS to be had without it. You can't alienate half this country and expect to recover from it.

He tried to be bipartisan, honest to God he did. I've been watching same as you have since the election. The republicans just don't realize that they're not in power anymore. Furthermore, as you evidence well, they're kinda saying "Why should we compromise with you? No matter what stupid thing we say, people will believe us!"

Do you really feel your liberties are being violated? I mean really? Give it a rest. As far as trying to sue the government? Isn't taking away the ability to sue a big part of the conservative manifesto on "Reform?"

Barack may be no Bill Clinton, but he's a very accomplished, intelligent, articulate man, and I think you'll find he has an ace up his sleeve. He ain't going off quietly into the night. And he is not alienating the country; misconceptions and lies about him are dividing the country, believe that.

 

[driveby]

Absolute nonsense. The pre-existing condition clause allows insurance companies to deny insurance to those who need it most.

Medicare denies more claims than any insurance company, so maybe you assholes should start there ...........

See, this is where the conversation fails. Why are we assholes, hmmmm?

Medicare doesn't cover everything. It is what it is. If someone is displeased with the service, there are supplemental private plans available. It's a safety net. It was conceived as a way to make sure older Americans had some kind of coverage and did not become a burden on society as they aged and their earning power dwindled. It ain't perfect. Accomplished people who have the money are free to buy supplemental plans that cover more items, or skip Medicare altogether and remain exclusively within the private market.

The point is, Obama and the democrats are demonizing the hell out of insurance companies when the government denies more services than any health insurance company.........

 

[driveby]

Absolute nonsense. The pre-existing condition clause allows insurance companies to deny insurance to those who need it most.

Medicare denies more claims than any insurance company, so maybe you assholes should start there ...........

So you're saying government health care is better?

Yeah, that's what i was saying ........

 

[Murf76]

He tried to be bipartisan, honest to God he did. I've been watching same as you have since the election. The republicans just don't realize that they're not in power anymore. Furthermore, as you evidence well, they're kinda saying "Why should we compromise with you? No matter what stupid thing we say, people will believe us!"

Do you really feel your liberties are being violated? I mean really? Give it a rest. As far as trying to sue the government? Isn't taking away the ability to sue a big part of the conservative manifesto on "Reform?"

Barack may be no Bill Clinton, but he's a very accomplished, intelligent, articulate man, and I think you'll find he has an ace up his sleeve. He ain't going off quietly into the night. And he is not alienating the country; misconceptions and lies about him are dividing the country, believe that.

You believe it. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck!

And 'yes'... I really do feel that my liberties are being violated. Since when do we have to purchase an insurance product as a matter of legal citizenship? And you do realize, don't you, that our private medical records have been seized as a provision of the Porkulus bill? By law, they're to be electronically recorded and available to whatever government flunkie Kathleen Sebelius decides to put in charge of Comparative Effectiveness Studies by 2014. Now, how is that NOT against the 4th Amendment?... or the 5th, 9th, or 10th for that matter? Whether one argues that a medical record is the property of the patient or the doctor, one thing it damn sure is NOT... is the property of the U.S. Government.

Have you considered the hoops people are put through just to work these days? Check out the repeat broadcast of Stossel this weekend on the Fox Business channel for an overview about how onerous licensing regulations keep new entrepreneurs from breaking into markets and keep prices high.
And do you realize that under Wickard v. Filburn all the federal government has to do is to decide that whatever you're doing is of "commercial value" and they're right up your butt? Your backyard tomato plants could be regulated if Congress ever took an interest in them.

Anyway... yeah. They're taking our liberty bit by bit.

As far as tort reform is concerned... bear in mind that litigation is the "quality control" mechanism which keeps our healthcare standards the best in the world. That said, some tort reform is necessary in order to bring down costs and prevent over-treatment. There are only limited things that the federal government can do though without treading on the 10th. Tort reform needs to occur primarily at the state level.

Oh... and as to Barry being "accomplished, intelligent, and articulate"... that's YOUR opinion. In MY opinion, he's an inept, ignorant, narcissistic windbag. And even I, a Republican, can see that he's not worthy of carrying Bill Clinton's jock-strap.

Dream on, dream on. Give us a list of people he hasn't alienated. It'll be shorter.

 

[Cuyo]

Dream on, dream on. Give us a list of people he hasn't alienated. It'll be shorter.

Gotta admit there's some truth to that. It's what happens when you try to make everyone happy. The right continues to hate him no matter what, and always will, while the left feels betrayed by all this pandering. He'd have been better off sticking to his guns from the get-go.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[

This is directly from the REPUBLICAN healthcare plan summary, from gop.gov

Establishing Universal Access Programs to guarantee access to affordable health care for those with pre-existing conditions. The GOP plan creates Universal Access Programs that expand and reform high-risk pools and reinsurance programs to guarantee that all Americans, regardless of pre-existing conditions or past illnesses, have access to affordable care – while lowering costs for all Americans.

So I guess the Republicans don't want a single insurance company to survive either.

lol, oops.

Don't try to bullshit us, children, lololololol

Why is it that you people ASSUME that all Republicans goosestep along together the way the loony left does?

We might not all agree with Boehner just because he has an (R) behind his name. Personally, I don't like the idea of high risk pools unless they're a niche market within the free market and completely voluntary.

If we need to use tax dollars... they need to be in state-run programs, and accountable to state citizens.

If you support a free market in healthcare then you support the principle that the wealthier a person is, the healthier he will be, on average, and, conversely, that the less wealthy a person is, the less healthy they will be. That's fine, if that's the way you think it should be, but many disagree with you.

 

[MaggieMae]

Some states have no control over Medicaid; others use the money wisely. The reason insurance coverage can't cross state lines is because each state wants to control the industry by their own internal insurance department watchdogs. I'd say by allowing each state to run any new federal health care program would just mean even more fingers in the pie which will assure its demise.

There shouldn't be ANY federal involvement in social welfare programs. The federal government needs to stop taxing so much that there's nothing left for the states. The states should be doing their own taxing and spending as they see fit.

That said, the Commerce Clause can (and should) prevent them from barring the sale of insurance products across state lines.

The problem with giving all "social welfare" programs over to the states is that some will have better benefits than others and therefore see their populations rise from neighboring states whose benefits are not as great. I can't think of any governor who would encourage that.

 

[MaggieMae]

Wrong, any house and senate can change any law that is not part of the constitution by the normal procedure, which is a house and senate vote pass followed by a POTUS signature.


Its astounding how many of you don't understand basic civics of your own country.

The legislative body cannot just "change" an enacted bill just because they THINK it violates some constitutional provision. They can bring a resolution to the floor to overturn an existing bill, but that process would need to go through the same cycle as any other bill.

You have this rediculous tendancy to restate what others tell you and claim its your own.

It just makes you look stupid toots, next time just admit you didn't know and move on.

Excuse me? Prove it, "dood" ! That's just rediculous[sic].

 

[MaggieMae]

The government is ALREADY running about half of healthcare in this country.

Prove it

Medicare covers 45 Million Americans. Show me where the other 100 million Americans are in a Government run program.

Actually, we're up to about 320 million, so the percentage is even smaller. Medicaid covers more, but those are grants from the federal government that the states are obligated to carry out as they see fit but following certain guidelines only. I don't think the VA should even be part of this discussion at all.