If God doesn't exist...

[Czernobog]

You left it at "I', so I'm wondering did you just continue on with the other imaginary figures they were promoting in your mind, or did you step back and think a bit...

I know at a young age it's hard to do, but I realized it even before I knew Santa wasn't real. I am Cuban and grew up in a Catholic household. But even as a young child it never made sense to me. It never settled into my mind as being a truth. And when I got older, I took the opportunity to study other religions (before the internet) and other ideas.

My conclusion was that as long as I'm a good person, and do things that are conducive to the betterment of society and the world, it REALLY doesn't matter what I believe. All that belief stuff is junk, used by snake-oil salesmen to make money and gain power.

Being a good person that cares about things should be good enough for the world.

Because when I got older, and really learned the truly horrific acts that were committed by religions and their followers, that totally blew away any possibility that one of their made-up Gods were true.

And then.... I learned about ancient civilizations (esp Sumer), and what they actually wrote. And how those ancient texts were completely changed over time to suit a religion that an upcoming ruler wanted. Thus the original texts by the Sumerians, where plagerized and changed to suit later polytheistic and monotheistic "religions". The great "evil" being monotheism and the Old Testament.

It seems that in your analysis you forgot to look at the good things that were done by the Church and religion.

Like the Inquisition, the Crusades, shuttling pedophiles around... That type of thing?

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

He's going to accuse you of wanting to criminalise religion, next, Mudda. Wait for it...

 

[ding]

You left it at "I', so I'm wondering did you just continue on with the other imaginary figures they were promoting in your mind, or did you step back and think a bit...

I know at a young age it's hard to do, but I realized it even before I knew Santa wasn't real. I am Cuban and grew up in a Catholic household. But even as a young child it never made sense to me. It never settled into my mind as being a truth. And when I got older, I took the opportunity to study other religions (before the internet) and other ideas.

My conclusion was that as long as I'm a good person, and do things that are conducive to the betterment of society and the world, it REALLY doesn't matter what I believe. All that belief stuff is junk, used by snake-oil salesmen to make money and gain power.

Being a good person that cares about things should be good enough for the world.

Because when I got older, and really learned the truly horrific acts that were committed by religions and their followers, that totally blew away any possibility that one of their made-up Gods were true.

And then.... I learned about ancient civilizations (esp Sumer), and what they actually wrote. And how those ancient texts were completely changed over time to suit a religion that an upcoming ruler wanted. Thus the original texts by the Sumerians, where plagerized and changed to suit later polytheistic and monotheistic "religions". The great "evil" being monotheism and the Old Testament.

It seems that in your analysis you forgot to look at the good things that were done by the Church and religion.

Like the Inquisition, the Crusades, shuttling pedophiles around... That type of thing?

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

He's going to accuse you of wanting to criminalise religion, next, Mudda. Wait for it...

No. I will ask him if he wants to criminalize religion next. I may walk him through the logical conclusion of his beliefs like I did you and then you amended your position because of it.

 

[Czernobog]

It seems that in your analysis you forgot to look at the good things that were done by the Church and religion.

Like the Inquisition, the Crusades, shuttling pedophiles around... That type of thing?

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

He's going to accuse you of wanting to criminalise religion, next, Mudda. Wait for it...

No. I will ask him if he wants to criminalize religion next. I may walk him through the logical conclusion of his beliefs like I did you and then you amended your position because of it.

Semantics. No you didn't. I started with the position that I have no desire, nor need, to criminalise religion. And I ended with the position that I have no desire, nor need to criminalise religion. You changed nothing with your irrational paranoia of what my position is.

 

[ding]

Like the Inquisition, the Crusades, shuttling pedophiles around... That type of thing?

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

He's going to accuse you of wanting to criminalise religion, next, Mudda. Wait for it...

No. I will ask him if he wants to criminalize religion next. I may walk him through the logical conclusion of his beliefs like I did you and then you amended your position because of it.

Semantics. No you didn't. I started with the position that I have no desire, nor need, to criminalise religion. And I ended with the position that I have no desire, nor need to criminalise religion. You changed nothing with your irrational paranoia of what my position is.

You started from the position that there was no baby in the bathwater, just dirty warter. As I progressed you through your logic you amended your position to that of religion has influenced man for some good - albeit a very half-assed analysis - which revealed your lack of objectivity on religion.

 

[Czernobog]

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

He's going to accuse you of wanting to criminalise religion, next, Mudda. Wait for it...

No. I will ask him if he wants to criminalize religion next. I may walk him through the logical conclusion of his beliefs like I did you and then you amended your position because of it.

Semantics. No you didn't. I started with the position that I have no desire, nor need, to criminalise religion. And I ended with the position that I have no desire, nor need to criminalise religion. You changed nothing with your irrational paranoia of what my position is.

You started from the position that there was no baby in the bathwater, just dirty warter. As I progressed you through your logic you amended your position to that of religion has influenced man for some good - albeit a very half-assed analysis - which revealed your lack of objectivity on religion.

There is still only dirty water. Guess what? Even dirty water removes mud from the body. The lacking "baby" is your invisible magic skyman. what little "good" is accomplished by your religion can be accomplished just as effectively by simply doing away with outdated myths altogether. Sill no change from my original position. Like I said, you think you have accomplished something that you never did. I never said that relgion hasn't had a modicum of positive influence. Only that the negative influences make the positive not worth the cost.

Take the paedophile priest. If that priest is an excellent marriage counsellor, and helps a few couples avoid divorce, is that minor positive influence really worth all of the damage that he does diddling children? I think not.

 

[ding]

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

He's going to accuse you of wanting to criminalise religion, next, Mudda. Wait for it...

No. I will ask him if he wants to criminalize religion next. I may walk him through the logical conclusion of his beliefs like I did you and then you amended your position because of it.

Semantics. No you didn't. I started with the position that I have no desire, nor need, to criminalise religion. And I ended with the position that I have no desire, nor need to criminalise religion. You changed nothing with your irrational paranoia of what my position is.

You started from the position that there was no baby in the bathwater, just dirty warter. As I progressed you through your logic you amended your position to that of religion has influenced man for some good - albeit a very half-assed analysis - which revealed your lack of objectivity on religion.

There is still only dirty water. Guess what? Even dirty water removes mud from the body. The lacking "baby" is your invisible magic skyman. what little "good" is accomplished by your religion can be accomplished just as effectively by simply doing away with outdated myths altogether. Sill no change from my original position. Like I said, you think you have accomplished something that you never did. I never said that relgion hasn't had a modicum of positive influence. Only that the negative influences make the positive not worth the cost.

Take the paedophile priest. If that priest is an excellent marriage counsellor, and helps a few couples avoid divorce, is that minor positive influence really worth all of the damage that he does diddling children? I think not.

The baby in the bathwater discussion was on religion, not God. Even now, you cannot force yourself to acknowledge the overwhelming good religion has done for mankind. Even now you cannot acknowledge that your beliefs are in line with the founding fathers of communism and in opposition of the beliefs of the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

 

[Czernobog]

He's going to accuse you of wanting to criminalise religion, next, Mudda. Wait for it...

No. I will ask him if he wants to criminalize religion next. I may walk him through the logical conclusion of his beliefs like I did you and then you amended your position because of it.

Semantics. No you didn't. I started with the position that I have no desire, nor need, to criminalise religion. And I ended with the position that I have no desire, nor need to criminalise religion. You changed nothing with your irrational paranoia of what my position is.

You started from the position that there was no baby in the bathwater, just dirty warter. As I progressed you through your logic you amended your position to that of religion has influenced man for some good - albeit a very half-assed analysis - which revealed your lack of objectivity on religion.

There is still only dirty water. Guess what? Even dirty water removes mud from the body. The lacking "baby" is your invisible magic skyman. what little "good" is accomplished by your religion can be accomplished just as effectively by simply doing away with outdated myths altogether. Sill no change from my original position. Like I said, you think you have accomplished something that you never did. I never said that relgion hasn't had a modicum of positive influence. Only that the negative influences make the positive not worth the cost.

Take the paedophile priest. If that priest is an excellent marriage counsellor, and helps a few couples avoid divorce, is that minor positive influence really worth all of the damage that he does diddling children? I think not.

The baby in the bathwater discussion was on religion, not God. Even now, you cannot force yourself to acknowledge the overwhelming good religion has done for mankind. Even now you cannot acknowledge that your beliefs are in line with the founding fathers of communism and in opposition of the beliefs of the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

And the core of religion, at least the majority of organised religion is the invisible magic skyman. If your proposition is that the core of your religion is the morality, and ethics, then sure, with a bit of tweaking, you shouldn't "throw out the baby with the bathwater". I have never suggested that we live in an amoral society; only that your God is unnecessary for people to develop morals, and ethics. Instead of teaching people that "God" wants them to do behave in a certain way, why not just teach them that behaving in a certain way creates a more healthy society? See? No invisible skyman necvessary.

 

[Pete7469]

God exists.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

...and science holds the answer to all questions....

Then what kick started the universe?

After all we wouldn't want to violate one of Newton's three laws now would we?

If the scientific answer at this time is we don't know...

Then doesn't that mean a miracle occurred?

*****CHUCKLE*****

The problem is that you have made a mistake about science. Science doesn't "hold all of the answers"; nor does it claim to. Science freely admits that it doesn't know. However, it follows that admission with an invitation: "Let's find out!"

It is religion that claims to have all of the answers, because in religion, whenever one runs up against "I don't know", religion responds with the ready made response: "God did it,"

And, therein is the end of exploration, and research. After all, why look for reasons, when the answer is already known?

View attachment 100535

Yet all the atheists appear to think they know that there is no God because they appear to think that science does hold all the answers.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Science doesn't have all the answers... yet. But it does have a huge chunk of them. Religion holds on by a thread, asking eternal questions that science has not answered yet (and probably never will).

Regardless of our debates, you are going to believe what you were born to believe, and there's no way for me to change your mind.

But I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm trying to make you understand that your religion is highly likely not correct. And therefore there is no need to continue to kill and despise others that think differently than your religion.

Keep it as a personal faith, something that makes you feel good inside, but STOP trying to push it onto others and dictating the way the world should be, based on a Santa Claus religion.

Open your mind to reality. That's what I'm trying to help do. There are so many wondrous things to think about, once you step outside that religious coffin...

Which religious coffin would that be?

The only thing I've suggested is that a miracle occurred....

You on the other hand seem intent on pushing your beliefs upon myself and others while providing no proof to back up your beliefs other than to say 'science doesn't have all the answers'. Then you make unfounded statements about my beliefs without proof to substantiate your claims. You're the one attacking my beliefs and attempting to dictate what I should do and believe when all I've done is ask a simple question about your beliefs. Then there is the possibility that everything you think you know about science is incorrect, especially at the quantum level, and that it's a complete do over. Perhaps it is you who should open your mind to reality instead of boxing yourself in and shutting out possibilities.

.....Of course if a miracle had occurred then that would imply that there most likely is a God.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[ding]

No. I will ask him if he wants to criminalize religion next. I may walk him through the logical conclusion of his beliefs like I did you and then you amended your position because of it.

Semantics. No you didn't. I started with the position that I have no desire, nor need, to criminalise religion. And I ended with the position that I have no desire, nor need to criminalise religion. You changed nothing with your irrational paranoia of what my position is.

You started from the position that there was no baby in the bathwater, just dirty warter. As I progressed you through your logic you amended your position to that of religion has influenced man for some good - albeit a very half-assed analysis - which revealed your lack of objectivity on religion.

There is still only dirty water. Guess what? Even dirty water removes mud from the body. The lacking "baby" is your invisible magic skyman. what little "good" is accomplished by your religion can be accomplished just as effectively by simply doing away with outdated myths altogether. Sill no change from my original position. Like I said, you think you have accomplished something that you never did. I never said that relgion hasn't had a modicum of positive influence. Only that the negative influences make the positive not worth the cost.

Take the paedophile priest. If that priest is an excellent marriage counsellor, and helps a few couples avoid divorce, is that minor positive influence really worth all of the damage that he does diddling children? I think not.

The baby in the bathwater discussion was on religion, not God. Even now, you cannot force yourself to acknowledge the overwhelming good religion has done for mankind. Even now you cannot acknowledge that your beliefs are in line with the founding fathers of communism and in opposition of the beliefs of the founding fathers of freedom and liberty.

And the core of religion, at least the majority of organised religion is the invisible magic skyman. If your proposition is that the core of your religion is the morality, and ethics, then sure, with a bit of tweaking, you shouldn't "throw out the baby with the bathwater". I have never suggested that we live in an amoral society; only that your God is unnecessary for people to develop morals, and ethics. Instead of teaching people that "God" wants them to do behave in a certain way, why not just teach them that behaving in a certain way creates a more healthy society? See? No invisible skyman necvessary.

Sorry. They go hand in hand.

"...As humanism in its development was becoming more and more materialistic, it also increasingly allowed concepts to be used first by socialism and then by communism, so that Karl Marx was able to say, in 1844, that "communism is naturalized humanism."

This statement has proved to be not entirely unreasonable. One does not see the same stones in the foundations of an eroded humanism and of any type of socialism: boundless materialism; freedom from religion and religious responsibility (which under Communist regimes attains the stage of antireligious dictatorship); concentration on social structures with an allegedly scientific approach. (This last is typical of both the Age of Enlightenment and of Marxism.) It is no accident that all of communism's rhetorical vows revolve around Man (with a capital M) and his earthly happiness. At first glance it seems an ugly parallel: common traits in the thinking and way of life of today's West and today's East? But such is the logic of materialistic development.

The interrelationship is such, moreover, that the current of materialism which is farthest to the left, and is hence the most consistent, always proves to be stronger, more attractive, and victorious. Humanism which has lost its Christian heritage cannot prevail in this competition. Thus during the past centuries and especially in recent decades, as the process became more acute, the alignment of forces was as follows: Liberalism was inevitably pushed aside by radicalism, radicalism had to surrender to socialism, and socialism could not stand up to communism.

The communist regime in the East could endure and grow due to the enthusiastic support from an enormous number of Western intellectuals who (feeling the kinship!) refused to see communism's crimes, and when they no longer could do so, they tried to justify these crimes. The problem persists: In our Eastern countries, communism has suffered a complete ideological defeat; it is zero and less than zero. And yet Western intellectuals still look at it with considerable interest and empathy, and this is precisely what makes it so immensely difficult for the West to withstand the East.

I am not examining the case of a disaster brought on by a world war and the changes which it would produce in society. But as long as we wake up every morning under a peaceful sun, we must lead an everyday life. Yet there is a disaster which is already very much with us. I am referring to the calamity of an autonomous, irreligious humanistic consciousness.

It has made man the measure of all things on earth — imperfect man, who is never free of pride, self-interest, envy, vanity, and dozens of other defects. We are now paying for the mistakes which were not properly appraised at the beginning of the journey. On the way from the Renaissance to our days we have enriched our experience, but we have lost the concept of a Supreme Complete Entity which used to restrain our passions and our irresponsibility.

We have placed too much hope in politics and social reforms, only to find out that we were being deprived of our most precious possession: our spiritual life. It is trampled by the party mob in the East, by the commercial one in the West. This is the essence of the crisis: the split in the world is less terrifying than the similarity of the disease afflicting its main sections.

If, as claimed by humanism, man were born only to be happy, he would not be born to die. Since his body is doomed to death, his task on earth evidently must be more spiritual: not a total engrossment in everyday life, not the search for the best ways to obtain material goods and then their carefree consumption. It has to be the fulfillment of a permanent, earnest duty so that one's life journey may become above all an experience of moral growth: to leave life a better human being than one started it.

It is imperative to reappraise the scale of the usual human values; its present incorrectness is astounding. It is not possible that assessment of the President's performance should be reduced to the question of how much money one makes or to the availability of gasoline. Only by the voluntary nurturing in ourselves of freely accepted and serene self-restraint can mankind rise above the world stream of materialism.

Today it would be retrogressive to hold on to the ossified formulas of the Enlightenment. Such social dogmatism leaves us helpless before the trials of our times.

Even if we are spared destruction by war, life will have to change in order not to perish on its own. We cannot avoid reassessing the fundamental definitions of human life and society. Is it true that man is above everything? Is there no Superior Spirit above him? Is it right that man's life and society's activities should be ruled by material expansion above all? Is it permissible to promote such expansion to the detriment of our integral spiritual life?

If the world has not approached its end, it has reached a major watershed in history, equal in importance to the turn from the Middle Ages to the Renaissance. It will demand from us a spiritual blaze; we shall have to rise to a new height of vision, to a new level of life, where our physical nature will not be cursed, as in the Middle Ages, but even more importantly, our spiritual being will not be trampled upon, as in the Modern Era.

The ascension is similar to climbing onto the next anthropological stage. No one on earth has any other way left but — upward." Alexander Solzhenitsyn - Harvard Address

 

[Czernobog]

God exists.

Because you say so? Sorry, I am a man of reason, and science. I need a bit more than that.

 

[ding]

God exists.

Because you say so? Sorry, I am a man of reason, and science. I need a bit more than that.

No. Because reason and experience say so. And although you profess to be a man of science you have demonstrated that you do little more than pay lip service to it.

 

[BreezeWood]

.

no, the conclusions of my beliefs are not being discussed nor have a historical record it is the conclusion, illustration of your religion and your expression of misogyny that are the subject that is reprehensible and deplorable and existent in the present tense.

.

You believe that Christianity is evil, right?

.

You believe that Christianity is evil, right?

do you ask questions because you are afraid to answer them yourself ... troll.

.

I don't reject Christ. I believe in One God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. I don't apologize for Christianity. I believe that by any objective measure that Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of man. I believe that you believe that Christianity is evil and would abolish it f you could. How's that? What else do you need to know?

.

I don't reject Christ ... I believe that you believe

you haven't the liberty to do both ... the latter seems to be the real bing.


' Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani ' -

represents the spoken religion from antiquity and the final chapter for who spoke it.


try as you may your written text will someday vanish and with it your beliefs, if that is all you are.

.

John 14:26, Romans 8:26, Acts 2:38, 1 Corinthians 6:19, John 14:15-17, Isaiah 11:2, Luke 11:13

2 Corinthians 3:17

Romans 15:13

Ezekiel 36:26-27

1 Corinthians 2:13

Ephesians 1:13

Romans 8:9

Romans 5:5

I have chosen the better portion, it will not be taken away from me.

.

I have chosen the better portion, it will not be taken away from me.

reading your way to the Everlasting ... good luck.


the "it" you rely on was canonized ~ 395 AD having nothing to do with the event and is a political document vaguely disguised as a religion, readymade for people similar to themselves ... bing. * as proven over history since that time to the present.

.

 

[ding]

You believe that Christianity is evil, right?

.

You believe that Christianity is evil, right?

do you ask questions because you are afraid to answer them yourself ... troll.

.

I don't reject Christ. I believe in One God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. I don't apologize for Christianity. I believe that by any objective measure that Christianity has been the greatest force for good in the history of man. I believe that you believe that Christianity is evil and would abolish it f you could. How's that? What else do you need to know?

.

I don't reject Christ ... I believe that you believe

you haven't the liberty to do both ... the latter seems to be the real bing.


' Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani ' -

represents the spoken religion from antiquity and the final chapter for who spoke it.


try as you may your written text will someday vanish and with it your beliefs, if that is all you are.

.

John 14:26, Romans 8:26, Acts 2:38, 1 Corinthians 6:19, John 14:15-17, Isaiah 11:2, Luke 11:13

2 Corinthians 3:17

Romans 15:13

Ezekiel 36:26-27

1 Corinthians 2:13

Ephesians 1:13

Romans 8:9

"]Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5:5 - English Standard Version"]Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5:5 - English Standard Version[/URL]Romans 5:5[/URL]

I have chosen the better portion, it will not be taken away from me.

.

I have chosen the better portion, it will not be taken away from me.

reading your way to the Everlasting ... good luck.


the "it" you rely on was canonized ~ 395 AD having nothing to do with the event and is a political document vaguely disguised as a religion, readymade for people similar to themselves ... bing. * as proven over history since that time to the present.

.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

 

[Mudda]

You left it at "I', so I'm wondering did you just continue on with the other imaginary figures they were promoting in your mind, or did you step back and think a bit...

I know at a young age it's hard to do, but I realized it even before I knew Santa wasn't real. I am Cuban and grew up in a Catholic household. But even as a young child it never made sense to me. It never settled into my mind as being a truth. And when I got older, I took the opportunity to study other religions (before the internet) and other ideas.

My conclusion was that as long as I'm a good person, and do things that are conducive to the betterment of society and the world, it REALLY doesn't matter what I believe. All that belief stuff is junk, used by snake-oil salesmen to make money and gain power.

Being a good person that cares about things should be good enough for the world.

Because when I got older, and really learned the truly horrific acts that were committed by religions and their followers, that totally blew away any possibility that one of their made-up Gods were true.

And then.... I learned about ancient civilizations (esp Sumer), and what they actually wrote. And how those ancient texts were completely changed over time to suit a religion that an upcoming ruler wanted. Thus the original texts by the Sumerians, where plagerized and changed to suit later polytheistic and monotheistic "religions". The great "evil" being monotheism and the Old Testament.

It seems that in your analysis you forgot to look at the good things that were done by the Church and religion.

Like the Inquisition, the Crusades, shuttling pedophiles around... That type of thing?

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

You lack of objectivity is showing.

Enlighten us, what good has religion brought?

 

[ding]

It seems that in your analysis you forgot to look at the good things that were done by the Church and religion.

Like the Inquisition, the Crusades, shuttling pedophiles around... That type of thing?

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

You lack of objectivity is showing.

Enlighten us, what good has religion brought?

1) Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness
a) Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations
b) Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions
c) Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing
d) Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity
e) Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility
f) Religion teaches accountability and responsibility
g) Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave
h) Religion teaches that actions have consequences
i) Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe
j) Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature
k) Religion helps us feel less alone in the world
l) Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit
m) Religion serves to bind the community together
n) Religion inspires love, peace and happiness
o) Religion serves to create traditions
p) Religion brings order to our lives
q) Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill
r) Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed
s) Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves
2) Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.
a) No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church
i) Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
ii) Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market
iii) The Catholic Church invented the university
iv) Western law grew out of Church canon law
v) the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life
(1) The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.
b) Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians
c) Religion gave us America
d) Religion gave us incredible artwork
e) Religion gave us incredible music
f) Religion gave us incredible architecture
g) Christianity has spread democracy
h) Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression.
i) Christians rebuilt Europe after WWII
j) Christians rebuilt Japan after WWII
k) Christians put a man on the moon.
l) Christians ended the cold war.

 

[ding]

It seems that in your analysis you forgot to look at the good things that were done by the Church and religion.

Like the Inquisition, the Crusades, shuttling pedophiles around... That type of thing?

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

You lack of objectivity is showing.

Enlighten us, what good has religion brought?

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin

 

[Mudda]

Like the Inquisition, the Crusades, shuttling pedophiles around... That type of thing?

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

You lack of objectivity is showing.

Enlighten us, what good has religion brought?

1) Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness
a) Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations
b) Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions
c) Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing
d) Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity
e) Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility
f) Religion teaches accountability and responsibility
g) Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave
h) Religion teaches that actions have consequences
i) Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe
j) Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature
k) Religion helps us feel less alone in the world
l) Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit
m) Religion serves to bind the community together
n) Religion inspires love, peace and happiness
o) Religion serves to create traditions
p) Religion brings order to our lives
q) Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill
r) Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed
s) Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves
2) Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.
a) No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church
i) Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
ii) Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market
iii) The Catholic Church invented the university
iv) Western law grew out of Church canon law
v) the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life
(1) The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.
b) Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians
c) Religion gave us America
d) Religion gave us incredible artwork
e) Religion gave us incredible music
f) Religion gave us incredible architecture
g) Christianity has spread democracy
h) Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression.
i) Christians rebuilt Europe after WWII
j) Christians rebuilt Japan after WWII
k) Christians put a man on the moon.
l) Christians ended the cold war.

I didn't ask for all the things religion thinks it does, but what it actually does. Please try again.

 

[Mudda]

Like the Inquisition, the Crusades, shuttling pedophiles around... That type of thing?

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

You lack of objectivity is showing.

Enlighten us, what good has religion brought?

Communism is naturalized humanism. Karl Marx

The propaganda of atheism is necessary for our programs. Vladimir Lenin

It's a habit of yours to worship what long dead people may have once said. You learn that from the bible?

 

[ding]

Sure, now what good has religion done?

Made people feel better by telling them fairy tales?
The rejection of science?
Making women second class citizens?
Anything else?

You lack of objectivity is showing.

Enlighten us, what good has religion brought?

1) Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness
a) Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations
b) Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions
c) Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing
d) Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity
e) Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility
f) Religion teaches accountability and responsibility
g) Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave
h) Religion teaches that actions have consequences
i) Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe
j) Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature
k) Religion helps us feel less alone in the world
l) Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit
m) Religion serves to bind the community together
n) Religion inspires love, peace and happiness
o) Religion serves to create traditions
p) Religion brings order to our lives
q) Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill
r) Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed
s) Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves
2) Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.
a) No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church
i) Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
ii) Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market
iii) The Catholic Church invented the university
iv) Western law grew out of Church canon law
v) the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life
(1) The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.
b) Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians
c) Religion gave us America
d) Religion gave us incredible artwork
e) Religion gave us incredible music
f) Religion gave us incredible architecture
g) Christianity has spread democracy
h) Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression.
i) Christians rebuilt Europe after WWII
j) Christians rebuilt Japan after WWII
k) Christians put a man on the moon.
l) Christians ended the cold war.

I didn't ask for all the things religion thinks it does, but what it actually does. Please try again.

1) Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness
a) Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations
b) Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions
c) Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing
d) Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity
e) Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility
f) Religion teaches accountability and responsibility
g) Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave
h) Religion teaches that actions have consequences
i) Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe
j) Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature
k) Religion helps us feel less alone in the world
l) Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit
m) Religion serves to bind the community together
n) Religion inspires love, peace and happiness
o) Religion serves to create traditions
p) Religion brings order to our lives
q) Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill
r) Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed
s) Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves
2) Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon.
a) No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church
i) Modern science was born in the Catholic Church
ii) Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market
iii) The Catholic Church invented the university
iv) Western law grew out of Church canon law
v) the Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life
(1) The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources.
b) Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians
c) Religion gave us America
d) Religion gave us incredible artwork
e) Religion gave us incredible music
f) Religion gave us incredible architecture
g) Christianity has spread democracy
h) Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression.
i) Christians rebuilt Europe after WWII
j) Christians rebuilt Japan after WWII
k) Christians put a man on the moon.
l) Christians ended the cold war.