If God doesn't exist...

[MaryL]

If god didn't exist, the universe would mange to get by just fine. It has so far. Islamic mass murdering hoodoo Islam came along, they get a free pass on logic or common sense. All bets are off.

 

[BreezeWood]

Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility,

to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility ...


it may be "virtually impossible" irregardless on our planet no such organism has yet materialized. all organisms are either single celled or mutisubdivided single celled organisms, no multidisimilar celled organism are in existence.

the step from singlecelled organism to subdivided cellular organisms uses the single cell for its building block and is the same in both instances.

.

 

[sealybobo]

If god didn't exist, the universe would mange to get by just fine. It has so far. Islamic mass murdering hoodoo Islam came along, they get a free pass on logic or common sense. All bets are off.

I think what we need to establish that all kids know where we came from. Im going to repeat a rant because I want to know what it is they don't understand or what they disagree with.

Now I know what I'm about to say is only the common belief of science but this is why science and old school religions clash. Religion doesn't accept reality.

For example, we all come from stars that died. We must have. Maybe a comet brought the proteans or mold that led to all life as we know.

Or that we evolved and all life has a common ancestor.

If you believe God waved his hand and produced fully functional dinosaurs or humans or chicken then that's basically believing our ancestors who didn't know shit back then. No excuse now.

And I really think the truth is so much better. This faith/fear/mind control is not good for evolving the mind faster. Imagine a much smarter citizens on this planet. Would we still have such obviously corrupt political system?

 

[sealybobo]

Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility,

to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility ...


it may be "virtually impossible" irregardless on our planet no such organism has yet materialized. all organisms are either single celled or mutisubdivided single celled organisms, no multidisimilar celled organism are in existence.

the step from singlecelled organism to subdivided cellular organisms uses the single cell for its building block and is the same in both instances.

.

But isn't it amazing when it happens?

Every star you see either had life like us billions of years ago, has it now or will billions of years from now

 

[sealybobo]

Mix hydrogen helium oxygen carbon neon and give it time

 

[MaryL]

Who made god? Self starting and always existed? Pulled himself up by the bootstraps? God pulled himself out of a hat? What?

 

[sealybobo]

Who made god? Self starting and always existed? Pulled himself up by the bootstraps? God pulled himself out of a hat? What?

There's simply no need for it other than emotional. Maybe we needed it when we were less evolved ignorant afraid unaware and new but now it seems as if it's outliving it's usefulness. Did you watch the ten commandments last night? And this is the religious story that led to our religious story? If I'm not buying that story why would I buy our story?

I'm supposed to believe God saved the Jews from Pharaoh but stood and watched Hitler do what he did?

 

[sealybobo]

No way I'm brainwashing my kids with a lie I don't even believe myself. I'll tell them people believe there is a God but I won't scare them with any hell stories. We will discuss how there could be but other than stories, no one has really seen it. Organized religions are just big business' but I'll let them decide because who am I to tell him and her what's the truth. The truth is I don't know. Keep looking.

 

[sealybobo]

Who made god? Self starting and always existed? Pulled himself up by the bootstraps? God pulled himself out of a hat? What?

Wouldn't you agree anyone who believes a religion is probably a much more controllable person? Much more easily lied to? If they'll accept the unbelievable on faith, what won't they believe?

 

[MaryL]

Who made god? Self starting and always existed? Pulled himself up by the bootstraps? God pulled himself out of a hat? What?

Wouldn't you agree anyone who believes a religion is probably a much more controllable person? Much more easily lied to? If they'll accept the unbelievable on faith, what won't they believe?

Religion makes me wary. Hence the term "drink the kool-aid". Islam has that down pat. Islam, suicide cells. Death to America, Islam means SUBMISSION. Submit my ass.

 

[zaangalewa]

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

Chaos is not a destructive power. There's some confusion in this expression. Some seem to see in the chaos something like a kind of heavily exploding destructive entropy. The chaos of the old Greece was a pre-created situation of the universe where all opposits were existing the same time. It was for example as well cold and hot. I remember in in this context: " ... even the eyes of the wisest of the wise were not able to view clearly through the chaos - but what they saw and reported was this: 'once a shimering light glimmed up in the chaos - this came from Eros, the god of heavenly love, the first of all gods ...'". Indeed chaos seems to be a force of life and not a force of destruction and death. And law and order are often a might of the death - how in case of good friday. But now is Eastermonday.

Life is per se intelligence. But there are also other forms of the intelligence of the chaos. If mathematics is intelligence - what I doubt about a little, but most people see it in this way - then chaos is a part of this intelligence of mathematics. Mandelbrot or Feigenbaum are for example two prophets of this form of chaos. Very very interesting - and unbelievable beautiful - structures. Life is by the way also always very beautiful. Not to respect life shows the darkness of the souls. And the very astonsihing thing: The chaos that exists in mathematics is existing also in the reality in the same way - so we can see in the chaos in a very good way how our internal spiritual structures are in a kind of identity or fitness with the world all around us. Or with other words: "In the beginning was the logos and god was the logos"

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I never understood the discussion "evolution vs creation" in the english speaking world. Hope my sentences here help to bring a little more light into the chaos of this discussion.

 

[sealybobo]

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

Chaos is not a destructive power. There's some confusion in this expression. Some seem to see in the chaos something like a kind of heavily exploding destructive entropy. The chaos of the old Greece was a pre-created situation of the universe where all opposits were existing the same time. It was for example as well cold and hot. I remember in in this context: " ... even the eyes of the wisest of the wise were not able to view clearly through the chaos - but what they saw and reported was this: 'once a shimering light glimmed up in the chaos - this came from Eros, the god of heavenly love, the first of all gods ...'". Indeed chaos seems to be a force of life and not a force of destruction and death. And law and order are often a might of the death - how in case of good friday. But now is Eastermonday.

Life is per se intelligence. But there are also other forms of the intelligence of the chaos. If mathematics is intelligence - what I doubt about a little, but most people see it in this way - then chaos is a part of this intelligence of mathematics. Mandelbrot or Feigenbaum are for example two prophets of this form of chaos. Very very interesting - and unbelievable beautiful - structures. Life is by the way also always very beautiful. Not to respect life shows the darkness of the souls. And the very astonsihing thing: The chaos that exists in mathematics is existing also in the reality in the same way - so we can see in the chaos in a very good way how our internal spiritual structures are in a kind of identity or fitness with the world all around us. Or with other words: "In the beginning was the logos and god was the logos"

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I never understood the discussion "evolution vs creation" in the english speaking world. Hope my sentences here help to bring a little more light into the chaos of this discussion.

You seem insane, all over the place, irrational, in short a mad man.

 

[zaangalewa]

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

Chaos is not a destructive power. There's some confusion in this expression. Some seem to see in the chaos something like a kind of heavily exploding destructive entropy. The chaos of the old Greece was a pre-created situation of the universe where all opposits were existing the same time. It was for example as well cold and hot. I remember in in this context: " ... even the eyes of the wisest of the wise were not able to view clearly through the chaos - but what they saw and reported was this: 'once a shimering light glimmed up in the chaos - this came from Eros, the god of heavenly love, the first of all gods ...'". Indeed chaos seems to be a force of life and not a force of destruction and death. And law and order are often a might of the death - how in case of good friday. But now is Eastermonday.

Life is per se intelligence. But there are also other forms of the intelligence of the chaos. If mathematics is intelligence - what I doubt about a little, but most people see it in this way - then chaos is a part of this intelligence of mathematics. Mandelbrot or Feigenbaum are for example two prophets of this form of chaos. Very very interesting - and unbelievable beautiful - structures. Life is by the way also always very beautiful. Not to respect life shows the darkness of the souls. And the very astonsihing thing: The chaos that exists in mathematics is existing also in the reality in the same way - so we can see in the chaos in a very good way how our internal spiritual structures are in a kind of identity or fitness with the world all around us. Or with other words: "In the beginning was the logos and god was the logos"

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I never understood the discussion "evolution vs creation" in the english speaking world. Hope my sentences here help to bring a little more light into the chaos of this discussion.

You seem insane, all over the place, irrational, in short a mad man.

I don't see your problem. In the moment my heart is in Pakistan where so many Christians were murdered from unbelievers.

 

[ChrisL]

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

Chaos is not a destructive power. There's some confusion in this expression. Some seem to see in the chaos something like a kind of heavily exploding destructive entropy. The chaos of the old Greece was a pre-created situation of the universe where all opposits were existing the same time. It was for example as well cold and hot. I remember in in this context: " ... even the eyes of the wisest of the wise were not able to view clearly through the chaos - but what they saw and reported was this: 'once a shimering light glimmed up in the chaos - this came from Eros, the god of heavenly love, the first of all gods ...'". Indeed chaos seems to be a force of life and not a force of destruction and death. And law and order are often a might of the death - how in case of good friday. But now is Eastermonday.

Life is per se intelligence. But there are also other forms of the intelligence of the chaos. If mathematics is intelligence - what I doubt about a little, but most people see it in this way - then chaos is a part of this intelligence of mathematics. Mandelbrot or Feigenbaum are for example two prophets of this form of chaos. Very very interesting - and unbelievable beautiful - structures. Life is by the way also always very beautiful. Not to respect life shows the darkness of the souls. And the very astonsihing thing: The chaos that exists in mathematics is existing also in the reality in the same way - so we can see in the chaos in a very good way how our internal spiritual structures are in a kind of identity or fitness with the world all around us. Or with other words: "In the beginning was the logos and god was the logos"

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I never understood the discussion "evolution vs creation" in the english speaking world. Hope my sentences here help to bring a little more light into the chaos of this discussion.

You seem insane, all over the place, irrational, in short a mad man.

I don't see your problem. In the moment my heart is in Pakistan where so many Christians were murdered from unbelievers.

Par for the course for the so-called "religious" people. They have always been fighting and killing one another. Sick.

 

[james bond]

It's logical proof or rationalism.

Descartes based it on how humans admire perfection.

It's not I that do not have a clue. You'll understand one day.

To me, it's more who gets the last laugh.

If you take a step back and look at all the facts, it seems that God is just the ignorant answer to how we got here. We didn't know shit when we came to that conclusion. The fact is we don't know. I don't have a problem with people who believe God exists but admit they don't know. I just don't like being lied to.

You don't believe all the other religions are real, do you?

What do you mean when you take a step back and look at the facts? There is more evidence that God exists. It helps to have a little faith.

And how can you say someone who has lasted all these years suggests ignorance? Science, while it eventually comes to the truth, is mostly wrong. Science ends up backing the Bible. What other ignorance are you referring to besides science?

And who is lying to you? Descartes? Surely, his, "I think, therefore I am" has stood the test of time. His proof of God lies in striving for perfection. That means getting 100% correct on the test. Winning. Doing your best since we're not perfect.

There is more evidence that God exists. FALSE
It helps to have a little faith. TRUE
Science is mostly wrong FALSE
Science ends up backing the bible FALSE
The rest is just nonsense. Zero extra credit for that last part.

So you got 1 out of 4 wrong. You didn't get even close to 100% on the test.

Since you made it a test, atheists are usually wrong. BTW, if I got 1 out of 4 wrong, then I'm 75% right.

The answers are 1) TRUE 2) TRUE 3) FALSE 4) TRUE. You got 2/4. I'll give you #3 because I meant to say, "Science is mostly wrong before they get it right." The rest is the Ontological argument which you didn't seem to understand. I'll make it extra credit, so zero extra credit.

Give me evidence backed by science that god exist please.Since you believe science ends up backing the bible anyway. Any example will do.

That's a whole another thread, but I can give you an example of how science backs up the Bible. Science says GMO foods are fine. There are pros and cons according to the Bible. (Note that the Bible can't change, but science keeps changing its theories all the time until they get it right.)

Genesis 1:26-30 tells us that God created Adam and Eve and instructed them to multiply and fill the earth, to subdue it and rule over every living thing that moves on the earth. He also told them that every plant and tree yielding seed was to be their food.

Genesis 2:15-17 tells us that Adam cultivated and kept the Garden of Eden and they were free to eat from any tree except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was a test of their free will. So, prior to Adam and Eve’s sin, working the land didn’t involve toil and hard labor as the ground hadn’t been cursed yet. They were to be good stewards of the earth. Genesis 3:17-19 tells us it was only after Adam and Eve disobeyed and sinned against God by eating of the tree of knowledge that God cursed the ground. He told Adam he would now only be able to eat the plants that grew for him by toiling and laboring over the land.

The above passages show us mankind’s role on the earth and how that role changed after sin entered the world. Plants, animals and trees today are still suffering the effects of that initial sin and are very susceptible to the ravages of disease, drought and insects. By genetically modifying food sources, it offsets the effects of the original sin. By altering the genetic makeup of organisms such as plants, animals or bacteria to make them more resistant to insects, temperature or disease, scientists and farmers are working together to improve food sources for the world’s population.

This was perfect for them, but they sinned and that's what has caused all the problems.

GMO foods are known to cause serious allergies for some people. This is caused by the foreign proteins introduced into the plants. The proteins added could be from a plant that they are allergic to causing a reaction. Also, some genetically modified plants are engineered to be resistant to diseases and viruses by adding antibiotic genes to the plant so that the resistance to these diseases is built in. These antibiotics can remain in the consumer's body and actually reduce the effectiveness of antibiotics medications.

These genetic alterations may come with much risk to humans, animals and plants, though, and only time will tell if this experiment will be helpful or harmful in the long run.



People admire perfection and we strive for it, often falling short. As Descartes and I have been saying, that's evidence for God. We long to get back to the original state or source. It's inherent in us. As to those who do not care, that was their free choice and they chose the consequences.

 

[sealybobo]

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

Chaos is not a destructive power. There's some confusion in this expression. Some seem to see in the chaos something like a kind of heavily exploding destructive entropy. The chaos of the old Greece was a pre-created situation of the universe where all opposits were existing the same time. It was for example as well cold and hot. I remember in in this context: " ... even the eyes of the wisest of the wise were not able to view clearly through the chaos - but what they saw and reported was this: 'once a shimering light glimmed up in the chaos - this came from Eros, the god of heavenly love, the first of all gods ...'". Indeed chaos seems to be a force of life and not a force of destruction and death. And law and order are often a might of the death - how in case of good friday. But now is Eastermonday.

Life is per se intelligence. But there are also other forms of the intelligence of the chaos. If mathematics is intelligence - what I doubt about a little, but most people see it in this way - then chaos is a part of this intelligence of mathematics. Mandelbrot or Feigenbaum are for example two prophets of this form of chaos. Very very interesting - and unbelievable beautiful - structures. Life is by the way also always very beautiful. Not to respect life shows the darkness of the souls. And the very astonsihing thing: The chaos that exists in mathematics is existing also in the reality in the same way - so we can see in the chaos in a very good way how our internal spiritual structures are in a kind of identity or fitness with the world all around us. Or with other words: "In the beginning was the logos and god was the logos"

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I never understood the discussion "evolution vs creation" in the english speaking world. Hope my sentences here help to bring a little more light into the chaos of this discussion.

You seem insane, all over the place, irrational, in short a mad man.

I don't see your problem. In the moment my heart is in Pakistan where so many Christians were murdered from unbelievers.

Why do 98% of the people in Pakistan let 2% kill Christians?

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I find the very intelligence present in the chaos absolutely fascinating. Though the mathematical possibility of even a single cell organism surviving long enough to mutate into a two cell organism is a virtual impossibility, the very premise that somehow not only did a multi-celled organism crawl forth from that cesspool but that in reality two very complicated and advanced multi-celled organisms must had crawled forth at about the very same time. Since the survival of any species must depend upon the intercourse between both a male and a female organism then both male and female humans, cattle, dogs, cats, elephants, rodents, hippos, etc., must have all crawled out of that same slime pit. Yes indeed, there must have been some smarts in that chaos else there might have only been male organisms crawl forth.

What intelligence in the chaos would that be?

Chaos is not a destructive power. There's some confusion in this expression. Some seem to see in the chaos something like a kind of heavily exploding destructive entropy. The chaos of the old Greece was a pre-created situation of the universe where all opposits were existing the same time. It was for example as well cold and hot. I remember in in this context: " ... even the eyes of the wisest of the wise were not able to view clearly through the chaos - but what they saw and reported was this: 'once a shimering light glimmed up in the chaos - this came from Eros, the god of heavenly love, the first of all gods ...'". Indeed chaos seems to be a force of life and not a force of destruction and death. And law and order are often a might of the death - how in case of good friday. But now is Eastermonday.

Life is per se intelligence. But there are also other forms of the intelligence of the chaos. If mathematics is intelligence - what I doubt about a little, but most people see it in this way - then chaos is a part of this intelligence of mathematics. Mandelbrot or Feigenbaum are for example two prophets of this form of chaos. Very very interesting - and unbelievable beautiful - structures. Life is by the way also always very beautiful. Not to respect life shows the darkness of the souls. And the very astonsihing thing: The chaos that exists in mathematics is existing also in the reality in the same way - so we can see in the chaos in a very good way how our internal spiritual structures are in a kind of identity or fitness with the world all around us. Or with other words: "In the beginning was the logos and god was the logos"

I suspect your math is derived from the website Answers in Genesis which suggests your math is the religious fundie version of math.

I never understood the discussion "evolution vs creation" in the english speaking world. Hope my sentences here help to bring a little more light into the chaos of this discussion.

You seem insane, all over the place, irrational, in short a mad man.

I don't see your problem. In the moment my heart is in Pakistan where so many Christians were murdered from unbelievers.

The state religion in Pakistan is Islam, which is practiced by 98% of the 195,343,000 people of the nation.

I would guess you are confusing unbelievers with people who believe in other gods. You mean they don't believe your religion? Because make no mistake, they believe in God. In fact they are more sure of its existence than you. They walk around all day allah akbar. They pray to it 7 times a day. Do you?

In fact, if 98% of Pakistan believe in Allah, I'm guessing some of the 2% left over are the Christians who you are referring to. So maybe 1% of Pakistan agrees with me. 99% agrees with you. Only difference is they believe in a different god. This is what wars start over. This is why religion has to go.

 

[sealybobo]

If you take a step back and look at all the facts, it seems that God is just the ignorant answer to how we got here. We didn't know shit when we came to that conclusion. The fact is we don't know. I don't have a problem with people who believe God exists but admit they don't know. I just don't like being lied to.

You don't believe all the other religions are real, do you?

What do you mean when you take a step back and look at the facts? There is more evidence that God exists. It helps to have a little faith.

And how can you say someone who has lasted all these years suggests ignorance? Science, while it eventually comes to the truth, is mostly wrong. Science ends up backing the Bible. What other ignorance are you referring to besides science?

And who is lying to you? Descartes? Surely, his, "I think, therefore I am" has stood the test of time. His proof of God lies in striving for perfection. That means getting 100% correct on the test. Winning. Doing your best since we're not perfect.

There is more evidence that God exists. FALSE
It helps to have a little faith. TRUE
Science is mostly wrong FALSE
Science ends up backing the bible FALSE
The rest is just nonsense. Zero extra credit for that last part.

So you got 1 out of 4 wrong. You didn't get even close to 100% on the test.

Since you made it a test, atheists are usually wrong. BTW, if I got 1 out of 4 wrong, then I'm 75% right.

The answers are 1) TRUE 2) TRUE 3) FALSE 4) TRUE. You got 2/4. I'll give you #3 because I meant to say, "Science is mostly wrong before they get it right." The rest is the Ontological argument which you didn't seem to understand. I'll make it extra credit, so zero extra credit.

Give me evidence backed by science that god exist please.Since you believe science ends up backing the bible anyway. Any example will do.

That's a whole another thread, but I can give you an example of how science backs up the Bible. Science says GMO foods are fine. There are pros and cons according to the Bible. (Note that the Bible can't change, but science keeps changing its theories all the time until they get it right.)

Genesis 1:26-30 tells us that God created Adam and Eve and instructed them to multiply and fill the earth, to subdue it and rule over every living thing that moves on the earth. He also told them that every plant and tree yielding seed was to be their food.

Genesis 2:15-17 tells us that Adam cultivated and kept the Garden of Eden and they were free to eat from any tree except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. It was a test of their free will. So, prior to Adam and Eve’s sin, working the land didn’t involve toil and hard labor as the ground hadn’t been cursed yet. They were to be good stewards of the earth. Genesis 3:17-19 tells us it was only after Adam and Eve disobeyed and sinned against God by eating of the tree of knowledge that God cursed the ground. He told Adam he would now only be able to eat the plants that grew for him by toiling and laboring over the land.

The above passages show us mankind’s role on the earth and how that role changed after sin entered the world. Plants, animals and trees today are still suffering the effects of that initial sin and are very susceptible to the ravages of disease, drought and insects. By genetically modifying food sources, it offsets the effects of the original sin. By altering the genetic makeup of organisms such as plants, animals or bacteria to make them more resistant to insects, temperature or disease, scientists and farmers are working together to improve food sources for the world’s population.

This was perfect for them, but they sinned and that's what has caused all the problems.

GMO foods are known to cause serious allergies for some people. This is caused by the foreign proteins introduced into the plants. The proteins added could be from a plant that they are allergic to causing a reaction. Also, some genetically modified plants are engineered to be resistant to diseases and viruses by adding antibiotic genes to the plant so that the resistance to these diseases is built in. These antibiotics can remain in the consumer's body and actually reduce the effectiveness of antibiotics medications.

These genetic alterations may come with much risk to humans, animals and plants, though, and only time will tell if this experiment will be helpful or harmful in the long run.



People admire perfection and we strive for it, often falling short. As Descartes and I have been saying, that's evidence for God. We long to get back to the original state or source. It's inherent in us. As to those who do not care, that was their free choice and they chose the consequences.

This is not evidence and makes no sense. Strictly rambling ons.

 

[emilynghiem]

You detractors to the big bang keep referring to an equilibrium that was supposed to have existed.

That assumption is stupid. No scientists theory I have seen suggested that the precursor to our universe, the "ball", was just sitting around for some unspecified period of our time before the bang. It makes more sense to me that the so called "ball" was building all along with some unknown force applied to this incomplete "ball" to keep it in check. At some point all hell broke loose as the "ball" reached a certain point outside the density/pressure needed to contain it. It could not be contained just as the unknown force reached it's opposite and relative decreasing strength needed to contain the "ball".

This theory could be compared to having a bottle of compressed gas sent upwards while more and more pressure is added to the bottle on the inside of the cylinder and the atmospheric pressure is steadily decreasing as the cylinder goes skyward. At some point in altitude ascended to the cylinder explodes because the strength to hold it intact is not enough.

That is just one possibility of how our current universe could have started to expand. You can see I did not need to refer to any god like creature in my theory.

Imagine all the debree floating around in space before all the stars. The remains of a previous universe in complete darkness. Because of gravity and the pull of black holes, everything eventually collects together and then all that "stuff" gets sucked into a black hole and either explodes (big bang) or gets sucked through the black hole and starts a universe on the other side of that black hole, just like our universe was started from the "stuff" that stirred around in a once dead universe in another dimension.

Or God did it.

Which answer is simple yet stupid

That's only stupid because of your own lack of knowledge, what seems to give you a wrong impression about the stupidity of other people, who try to touch your own frustrated emptyness, intentional ignorance and agressive arrogance.

If you would use the including "or" (in Latin "vel", logical sign "v" - in Kantors mathematics called "union" sign "U" - in computer science called "or" sign "or") then the sentence "or god did it" is anything else than stupid.

and makes most people feel comfortable? God of course. Its what our simple ancient ancestors thought up. And whoever created Christianity created the greatest bs story ever told.

But it doesn't even have to be a great story because people are really stupid. Just look at Jehovas, Mormons and Muslims.

Lots of people fought and fight with god. Lots of them live in the illusion they could not win against god. But they win and crucify him or bring his people in concentration camps like Auschwitz-Birkenau. God dies many deaths. He died this days also in Brussels many deaths caused from people speaking and believing nonsense about this what they think what god is. They forget that no one needs to defend an allmighty entity and they forget: Who kills a human being kills a universe. You are by the way right: God is not existing. He died on a cross today. The god who is is not - and the cross he died on is also a symbol for the justice of human beings. There's no need for god to die with us - he could also break us - but he dies with us, because he loves us.

Hi zaangalewa I agree with your point that the death on the cross is a symbol of justice.
The point is to break the cycle of injustice and war, and bring lasting peace and justice by healing and RESTORING good faith relations
between neighbors, nations and tribes world wide.

This is what is meant by receiving divine forgiveness and GRACE to bring on this healing and transformation,
from a broken corrupted world of social ills to rebirth as children of the Kingdom of God or heaven on earth.

So the key is forgiveness.
Where you see people reaching out with compassion and charity,
inclusion and not rejection, correction and healing instead of judgment or punishment,
that is the path of Restorative Justice that Christ Jesus represents and fulfills.

the death on the cross was one stage of this process.
the rising and return is what we will see when these
past patterns are overcome and we end the cause of war, ills and suffering.

Peace be unto you and may God abundantly
multiple all blessings you receive and share
with others. Salaam Malaikum and Amen!

 

[ChrisL]

You detractors to the big bang keep referring to an equilibrium that was supposed to have existed.

That assumption is stupid. No scientists theory I have seen suggested that the precursor to our universe, the "ball", was just sitting around for some unspecified period of our time before the bang. It makes more sense to me that the so called "ball" was building all along with some unknown force applied to this incomplete "ball" to keep it in check. At some point all hell broke loose as the "ball" reached a certain point outside the density/pressure needed to contain it. It could not be contained just as the unknown force reached it's opposite and relative decreasing strength needed to contain the "ball".

This theory could be compared to having a bottle of compressed gas sent upwards while more and more pressure is added to the bottle on the inside of the cylinder and the atmospheric pressure is steadily decreasing as the cylinder goes skyward. At some point in altitude ascended to the cylinder explodes because the strength to hold it intact is not enough.

That is just one possibility of how our current universe could have started to expand. You can see I did not need to refer to any god like creature in my theory.

Imagine all the debree floating around in space before all the stars. The remains of a previous universe in complete darkness. Because of gravity and the pull of black holes, everything eventually collects together and then all that "stuff" gets sucked into a black hole and either explodes (big bang) or gets sucked through the black hole and starts a universe on the other side of that black hole, just like our universe was started from the "stuff" that stirred around in a once dead universe in another dimension.

Or God did it.

Which answer is simple yet stupid

That's only stupid because of your own lack of knowledge, what seems to give you a wrong impression about the stupidity of other people, who try to touch your own frustrated emptyness, intentional ignorance and agressive arrogance.

If you would use the including "or" (in Latin "vel", logical sign "v" - in Kantors mathematics called "union" sign "U" - in computer science called "or" sign "or") then the sentence "or god did it" is anything else than stupid.

and makes most people feel comfortable? God of course. Its what our simple ancient ancestors thought up. And whoever created Christianity created the greatest bs story ever told.

But it doesn't even have to be a great story because people are really stupid. Just look at Jehovas, Mormons and Muslims.

Lots of people fought and fight with god. Lots of them live in the illusion they could not win against god. But they win and crucify him or bring his people in concentration camps like Auschwitz-Birkenau. God dies many deaths. He died this days also in Brussels many deaths caused from people speaking and believing nonsense about this what they think what god is. They forget that no one needs to defend an allmighty entity and they forget: Who kills a human being kills a universe. You are by the way right: God is not existing. He died on a cross today. The god who is is not - and the cross he died on is also a symbol for the justice of human beings. There's no need for god to die with us - he could also break us - but he dies with us, because he loves us.

Hi zaangalewa I agree with your point that the death on the cross is a symbol of justice.
The point is to break the cycle of injustice and war, and bring lasting peace and justice by healing and RESTORING good faith relations
between neighbors, nations and tribes world wide.

This is what is meant by receiving divine forgiveness and GRACE to bring on this healing and transformation,
from a broken corrupted world of social ills to rebirth as children of the Kingdom of God or heaven on earth.

So the key is forgiveness.
Where you see people reaching out with compassion and charity,
inclusion and not rejection, correction and healing instead of judgment or punishment,
that is the path of Restorative Justice that Christ Jesus represents and fulfills.

the death on the cross was one stage of this process.
the rising and return is what we will see when these
past patterns are overcome and we end the cause of war, ills and suffering.

Peace be unto you and may God abundantly
multiple all blessings you receive and share
with others. Salaam Malaikum and Amen!

There will never be "peace" if there are competing religions. Just look to history and the present times. Religion was invented to control people. That is quite obvious.

 

[hobelim]

A priest on TV today said you should consider me your Goliath. Without him who would Sampson have been?

lol....I think you mean David and goliath.

Samson and Goliath was an animated children's TV show.