Zone1 If God Is All Powerful, All Knowing, and All Loving, Then Why Didn't He Create Us To Be Perfect Like Himself

[Libby von H]

How the Rulers Want Us to "Think"

Low-IQ logic would conclude that anyone who agrees that religion is the "opiate of the masses" must love Communism.

NO, because you misuse two words.
All modern tyrannies have been religious as laid out by Michael Burleigh

“THE ABUSIVE EXPLOITATION OF THE HUMAN RELIGIOUS SENTIMENT”: MICHAEL BURLEIGH AS HISTORIAN OF “POLITICAL RELIGION”​

"The Abusive Exploitation of the Human Religious Sentiment": Michael Burleigh as Historian of "Political Religion" - Intercollegiate Studies Institute

Michael Burleigh, a distinguished English historian, is the author of a remarkable trilogy on the “political religions” that have been the scourge of late modernity. In his authoritative The Third Reich: A New History (2000) [1], Burleigh studied Nazi Germany as a form of totalitarian society....

isi.org

AND

nobody belongs to 'religion' ,they belong to a certain religion. You can't say something must be false just because some have adhered without understanding. Is education an opiate? Can be. Is art an opiate? Can be.

The worst atrocity in modern history was the most cultued nation murdering the most literate ethnic group in history, the post-Weimar Germans killing Jews. You might say a la Burleigh :False relgion killing real religion.

“Cruelty lurks in our instincts, and fanaticism is a camouflage for cruelty. Fanatics are seldom genuinely humane, and those who sincerely dread cruelty will be slow to adopt a fanatical creed. . . .”
― Michael Burleigh, The Third Reich: A New History

 

[onefour1]

Maybe all knowing to the point what is knowable.
The verse you cite hardly backs up a God who knows everything from beginning to its ultimate end.

Here is a good thought on this topic

How does an Open Theist explain all the prophecies fulfilled in the life of Jesus? - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

Question: Throughout the Gospels it says that Jesus “fulfilled that which was written.” Some of these prophecies are very specific and involve free decisions of people. For example, a guard freely chose to give Jesus vinegar instead of water (Jn 19:28), yet John says this was prophesied in the...

reknew.org

Abraham 2:8
8 My name is Jehovah, and I know the end from the beginning; therefore my hand shall be over thee.

Moses 1:6
6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.

God, Omniscience of​

• See also God, Foreknowledge of; God, Intelligence of; God, Wisdom of
• God saw … every imagination of the thoughts of his heart, Gen. 6:5.
• I know him, that he will command his children, Gen. 18:19.
• Lord is a God of knowledge, 1 Sam. 2:3.
• Lord looketh on the heart, 1 Sam. 16:7.
• Lord searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all, 1 Chr. 28:9.
• thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men, 2 Chr. 6:30 (Acts 1:24; 15:8).
• he knoweth the way that I take, Job 23:10.
• he knoweth the secrets of the heart, Ps. 44:21 (Luke 16:15).
• Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, Ps. 94:11.
• Thou … art acquainted with all my ways, Ps. 139:3.
• Great is our Lord … his understanding is infinite, Ps. 147:5.
• eyes of the Lord are in every place, Prov. 15:3.
• I know their works and their thoughts, Isa. 66:18.
• thou, O Lord, knowest me, Jer. 12:3.
• I the Lord search the heart, Jer. 17:10 (Rev. 2:23).
• I know the things that come into your mind, Ezek. 11:5.
• your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, Matt. 6:8.
• Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Matt. 9:4.
• sparrows … shall not fall on the ground without your Father, Matt. 10:29.
• Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things, John 13:3.
• are we sure that thou knowest all things, John 16:30.
• Known unto God are all his works from the beginning, Acts 15:18 (1 Ne. 9:6).
• hath determined the times before appointed, Acts 17:26.
• wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable, Rom. 11:33.
• Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, 1 Cor. 3:20.
• In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom, Col. 2:3.
• word of God … is a discerner of the thoughts, Heb. 4:12.
• I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, Rev. 2:2.
• I know thy works, that thou hast a name, Rev. 3:1.
• before it came to pass I showed them thee, 1 Ne. 20:5.
• wisdom of him who knoweth all things, 2 Ne. 2:24.
• God … knoweth all things, and there is not anything save he knows, 2 Ne. 9:20 (Morm. 8:17; D&C 127:2).
• reveal all things from the foundation of the world, 2 Ne. 27:10.
• I know all their works, 2 Ne. 27:27.
• by the help of the all-powerful Creator … I can tell you concerning your thoughts, Jacob 2:5.
• Lord knoweth all things which are to come, W of M 1:7.
• Spirit knoweth all things, Alma 7:13.
• Art thou that Great Spirit, who knows all things, Alma 18:18.
• he knows all the thoughts and intents of the heart, Alma 18:32 (D&C 6:16).
• all wisdom, and all understanding; he comprehendeth all things, Alma 26:35.
• ye cannot hide your crimes from God, Alma 39:8.
• God knoweth all these things, Alma 40:5.
• God knoweth all the times which are appointed unto man, Alma 40:10.
• except he was a god he could not know of all things, Hel. 9:41.
• I know your thoughts, and ye have desired the thing which John … desired, 3 Ne. 28:6.
• Lord … showed unto the brother of Jared all the inhabitants of the earth, Ether 3:25.
• God knowing all things, being from everlasting, Moro. 7:22.
• I have told you things which no man knoweth, D&C 6:24 (15:3).
• knoweth all things, for all things are present before mine eyes, D&C 38:2.
• whose hearts I know, D&C 67:1.
• he comprehended all things, that he might be in all, D&C 88:6 (88:41).
• mine eyes see and know all their works, D&C 121:24.
• all things for their glory are manifest, D&C 130:7.
• all things are present with me, for I know them all, Moses 1:6.
• all things are numbered unto me, for … I know them, Moses 1:35.
• Lord … told Enoch all the doings of the children of men, Moses 7:41.
• Lord showed Enoch all things, Moses 7:67.
• I know the end from the beginning, Abr. 2:8.
• See also Job 21:22; 42:2; Isa. 41:26; 46:10; 48:3; 55:8–9; 59:1; Jer. 33:3; Dan. 2:28; Matt. 6:6; Luke 12:6; John 6:64; 14:26; 16:13; Eph. 1:8; 1 Ne. 10:19; Jacob 2:10; Mosiah 27:31; 3 Ne. 13:6; 26:3; Morm. 8:34–35; Moro. 10:5; D&C 1:1; Moses 7:4, 36; Abr. 3:19, 21.

I think it is possible for God to know what all mankind will do with their free will choices.

 

[Meriweather]

No, that is false and easlity shown to be so
IF all was created down to its utter core by the Creator and is sustained in being also by the Creator what possible could it not do? Did it create something beyond its own power? Does that even make sense.
Even less so your statement about omniscience since 'prior' to bringing someting into being it must be known utterly.

Are we addressing the same point? People ask whether God knows what we will think before the thought ever crosses our mind; whether God knows today what we will have for lunch two weeks from next Tuesday. In one discussion a poster offered the thought even that would be possible if God exists in the past/present/future all at once.

I am certain that God knows His plans will be carried out as he intends. He knows his ends plans as well as I know a cake will be the result if I plan to bake a cake.

As you say, when God plans his creation, He knows how it will turn out. He knows what power is available and what is not. The argument that surfaces is 'available power' is not the same as 'unlimited power', hence the cliche argument is God powerful enough to create a rock even he does not have the power to lift. When carried too far today, the 'omnis' become nonsense and nonsense was never the intent.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

All who come to this earth and receive a body did not rebel against God in the premortal world of spirits. We chose to side with God in the war in heaven. Those who sided with Lucifer (Satan) were denied the opportunity to receive a body of flesh and bones but were cast into this earth to try to test us to see if we would choose good over evil.

We Who Were Born in the Dugout Are Made to Believe We've Been Benched

Belief in the right to inheritance is based on the superstition that there was a pre-life where the spirits were judged based on their obedience to God. Those who passed the test were given the privilege of being born rich; the rest were born as peasants with no healthy opportunities even if they were born with superior abilities, which is why you elevate spirit and insult intelligence.

This tyrannical faith is similar to Hindu reincarnation and its nation-destroying tyranny of the caste system. That is why hundred of millions of the natives in India were easily conquered by a mere 30,000 British soldiers. Likewise, America will fall if it continues to allow hereditary privileges.

 

[onefour1]

Irrational Science Led to Its Century's Irrational Politics. Heisenberg Became a Nazi.

Even a god cannot know the future, because it doesn't exist at all until it is reached. It's the same as saying, "God can tell us what unicorns are like." This contradiction is the origin of the goofy-nerd "physics" of time-travel.

I disagree. I believe that God has a way of knowing the end from the beginning. He knows each of us so well that He knows exactly what we will do with our free will choices. Jesus knew way before it occurred that Judas Iscariot would betray him. Jesus even instructed his other Apostles that one among them was about to betray Him. There are prophesies in the Old Testament regarding the life and ministry of Jesus Christ himself which have come true.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

. why work hard when you can work smart?

Because the Homo Erectus Bosses Are Jealous of Homo Sapiens Employees

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

But as I truly believe, God made man from a self-existing non-creatable intelligence that was not created or made and thus could not create mankind to be perfect.

Bright Makes Might

Intelligence is the only supernatural being. It literally conquers the Nature that superstition has turned into a god, or preaches It was created by a god.

Whatever good Nature does, High IQs can do better. Nature is a crime against humanity, which doesn't include subhumans who worship it or its imaginary Creator.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Does God not have free will? Why couldn't God create us with free will but also with perfect decision making just as God Himself has? God, in my estimation has free will and also makes perfect decisions. Could he not make mankind to be just like himself having free will and able with that free will to make perfect decisions with that free will?

God isn't looking for robots, but for the strong in faith. Even the angels are capable of making their own decisions. 1/3 of them left with Satan.
God doesn't force man to love Him. He plans on crowning those who do, and readying them for the work ahead on His behalf. They are co-heirs with Christ.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

GOD was revealed thru Jesus.

Render Therefore Unto Caesar

The colonizing strategy of the Roman Empire was revealed through Jesus, who was their agent assigned to divert the Jews from fighting for their independence by being wholly concerned with preparing for Heaven in the afterlife. The "turn the other cheek" preaching was cowardice and treason.


Jesus failed in his assignment and also angered the other collaborators, the High Priests. So Pilate appeased them and got rid of his failed agent at the same time.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

you believe whatever you want- you are wrong and in danger of hell if you dont repent and trust In Jesus as your savior.

I'd Rather Get an Erection the Manly Way Than Your Christofascist Way

 

[onefour1]

God isn't looking for robots, but for the strong in faith. Even the angels are capable of making their own decisions. 1/3 of them left with Satan.
God doesn't force man to love Him. He plans on crowning those who do, and readying them for the work ahead on His behalf. They are co-heirs with Christ.

I agree. Whether man is made to have a more perfect decision making ability or whether man is made to not to have a perfect decision making ability, if given free will then either way man would not be a robot.

 

[SweetSue92]

To this I would ask if Adam and Eve, before the fall, had a perfect knowledge of all things? Did they know what good and evil were? Yes, they were immortal and perfect in many ways but they had not yet experienced good and evil and only after the fall did they begin to understand and then God exclaimed:

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Only after the fall did Adam and Eve BECOME like them, the Gods. It was a progression in the knowledge of good and evil which they didn't have in the garden prior to the fall. So in knowledge, Adam and Eve were not perfect.

I never said all-knowing. That belongs to God alone. Perfect as in morally perfect

 

[Blues Man]

Before coming to this earth we, as spirit children of God, voluntarily chose to come to this earth and receive a body of flesh and bones in order that we might become more like our Father in Heaven.

God only intentionally made us imperfect because our intelligences were not perfect and only through self-existing intelligence are we made. The agreement made before heaven is that we would come down to earth and learn to walk by faith and have a chance to become more like God. God would reveal himself to us through ministering angels and prophets but we would have to exercise faith believe in him and his ways of goodness without being in his presence as we were before we came to this earth His commandments are a way to become more like God. That is why He has given us commandments.

God is the epitome of love. Teaching us all to love as God loves and to do unto others as we would have other do unto us, A person who would want to be like Jesus would love and honor him and his way of life. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light of how we can become more like our Heavenly Father. Jesus loved us sooo dearly that he layed down his life for our sake. Not only so we could resurrect and become immortal but to gain forgiveness of sin. Because he is the way to eternal life, he commands us to keep his commandments to avoid damnation. Servitude is part of love. We are not only to serve God but to also serve our fellow man. In this way we learn to care for others.

Your god allegedly made everything so it also made our intelligence.

And I see no evidence that god is love.

This god you speak orders his creations under threat of punishment to love him. Jesus said that to love him is to obey his commands

That is equating servitude under threat of divine retribution to love.

 

[ActionJackson]

God declared that His creation (including Adam and Eve) were “very good.” He never declared that they were perfect. He gifted man with free will, or the ability to think and choose for himself. He didn't create a world of clones or robots, but rather a world with living, breathing, sentient beings who were created in his “image.” All things were created for “his good pleasure” and he seeks them who seek Him by choice … not be force.

A third of the angels rebelled against God and the vast majority of mankind of chosen to do the same. Only a small handful will experience His perfect Kingdom to come.

 

[Blues Man]

God declared that His creation (including Adam and Eve) were “very good.” He never declared that they were perfect. He gifted man with free will, or the ability to think and choose for himself. He didn't create a world of clones or robots, but rather a world with living, breathing, sentient beings who were created in his “image.” All things were created for “his good pleasure” and he seeks them who seek Him by choice … not be force.

A third of the angels rebelled against God and the vast majority of mankind of chosen to do the same. Only a small handful will experience His perfect Kingdom to come.

So he deliberately made them imperfect. Then orders them to be perfect under threat of death and destruction.

That's sadism.

and you god is actually the originator of the thought crime

 

[ActionJackson]

So he deliberately made them imperfect. Then orders them to be perfect under threat of death and destruction.

That's sadism.

and you god is actually the originator of the thought crime

He deliberately created them to choose perfection. They chose incorrectly.

 

[Blues Man]

He deliberately created them to choose perfection. They chose incorrectly.

If they had to choose to be perfect then they were already imperfect and no one can actually be perfect

 

[ActionJackson]

If they had to choose to be perfect then they were already imperfect and no one can actually be perfect

The ability to choose is a perfect circumstance for you or I to be in. Most of our choices, unfortunately, are not perfect choices. Nevertheless, one perfect choice any of us can make is to accept Jesus Christ as our Savior. Most won't make that perfect choice, however.

 

[Blues Man]

The ability to choose is a perfect circumstance for you or I to be in. Most of our choices, unfortunately, are not perfect choices. Nevertheless, one perfect choice any of us can make is to accept Jesus Christ as our Savior. Most won't make that perfect choice, however.

If we do not make perfect choices we are not perfect.

So if a god is responsible for making us then he deliberately made us to be imperfect.

Only beings who are already perfect can make perfect choices. This brings up all kinds of questions as to the god of the bible's perfection because some of its choices were pretty bad.

 

[Libby von H]

Are we addressing the same point? People ask whether God knows what we will think before the thought ever crosses our mind; whether God knows today what we will have for lunch two weeks from next Tuesday. In one discussion a poster offered the thought even that would be possible if God exists in the past/present/future all at once.

I am certain that God knows His plans will be carried out as he intends. He knows his ends plans as well as I know a cake will be the result if I plan to bake a cake.

As you say, when God plans his creation, He knows how it will turn out. He knows what power is available and what is not. The argument that surfaces is 'available power' is not the same as 'unlimited power', hence the cliche argument is God powerful enough to create a rock even he does not have the power to lift. When carried too far today, the 'omnis' become nonsense and nonsense was never the intent.

are we even on the same question ?? Where did all this come from??

From the same source you get your question you get your answer
You have searched me, Lord,
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
4 Before a word is on my tongue
you, Lord, know it completely.
5 You hem me in behind and before,
and you lay your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.
7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.
11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;