Zone1 If God Is All Powerful, All Knowing, and All Loving, Then Why Didn't He Create Us To Be Perfect Like Himself

[ninja007]

tl; dr. Sorry, 141, I'm not interested in reading nor debating your idle speculations about God. God cannot be approached through mental thought experiments. I've given you good information, have already answered all your questions, just not apparently with the answers you WANT to hear; it is now up to you to utilize it or not. It is your free choice. I rather think you will not.

GOD was revealed thru Jesus.

 

[ninja007]

As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God. Through Joseph Smith, God revealed the following:

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

It is doctrine of the church that when God created our spirits, he created it from two things, 1. Spirit Matter and 2. eternal intelligence.

The above verse speaks of eternal intelligence and tells us that our intelligence has always existed and is self existent. What this is saying is that God did not create our intellect and that it, just like God, has eternally existed. The spirit body was created from a more pure and fine substance we call spirit matter. This spirit matter was combined with our self-existing intelligence to make up our spirits. We believe that our spirits were all created prior to coming to this earth through the procreation process of God. In other words, we are the literal offspring of God. He is literally our Father in Heaven. However, the intelligence within our spirits has always existed. Thus God could never create it and thus he could never create it to be perfect. It was in the state it was in prior to us being born on this earth. God cannot create something that is self-existing. The above verse teaches that our intelligence in self-existing and was never created or made. Here is another verse that informs us that our spirit bodies are made up of spiritual matter:

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7-8
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;
8 We cannot see it; but when our bodies are purified we shall see that it is all matter.

So in summary, because our intelligence could not be created or made by God, He could not create it to be perfect. Yes, we have always existed as an intelligence. We do not know what an intelligence looks like but we know that our intelligence is not as advanced as God. Since God could not create our intelligence, the only way for it to progress is for it to go through experience and learning. God placed us on this earth to learn good from evil and to experience more joy through having a physical body just as God knows good and evil and has a resurrected body. When resurrected we will be able to receive a fulness of joy.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:33
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

Free will plays a major part in our progression. Nobody makes God be a good being. He chooses to be a good being in and of himself. God gives us free will so that we too can learn to be a good being and make the right choices in and of ourselves. You cannot become a good being by force. This is why Satan, who wanted to force us all to be good had a faulty plan. You can only be a truly good being by choosing in and of yourself to be a good being. Since God could not create us to be perfect, He needs to try and get us to choose to be a good being of our own volition. In the premortal world of spirits, we all wanted to become like our Father in Heaven and God provided a means whereby we could achieve that goal. However, it requires that we choose of our own free will and choice to be a good being. We need to be converted to choosing good over evil. All who come to this earth and receive a body did not rebel against God in the premortal world of spirits. We chose to side with God in the war in heaven. Those who sided with Lucifer (Satan) were denied the opportunity to receive a body of flesh and bones but were cast into this earth to try and test us to see if we would choose good over evil. Those evil spirits can only tempt us but never force us to be evil. Thus we truly have free will to be either a good being or a bad one. So this is our belief as to why God could not create us to be perfect from the beginning. There is a part of man that is self-existing and the only way for us to become like our Father in Heaven is to choose in and of ourselves to be so. Thus we come to the world of hard knocks to make that choice and overcome evil and experience good and evil that we might better appreciate the good. God, in his wisdom, has found that this is the best way to progress and only those who choose to be good of their own free will and choice will become like God. Those who choose otherwise will reap the rewards of their choices.

you believe whatever you want- you are wrong and in danger of hell if you dont repent and trust In Jesus as your savior.

 

[onefour1]

you believe whatever you want- you are wrong and in danger of hell if you dont repent and trust In Jesus as your savior.

I don't know how you come up with that response from what I wrote. Our spirits have a component of self-existing intelligence that was never created or made. This is why God could not make or create us perfect since he couldn't create our intelligence because it was self-existing. What this means is that we were not created perfect by God and were thus subject to error and sin. This necessitated that God find a way for us to repent and have our sins forgiven. This means that Jesus' atonement was necessary as we were not perfect and needed forgiveness of sin to enter the kingdom of God. So I very much believe that we need to repent of sin and trust in Jesus as our Savior. So I don't really know where you are coming from with accusing me that I don't believe in repentance or relying on Jesus for salvation and the forgiveness of sin.

 

[Rambunctious]

It takes time if you are not create perfect.

Nothing is born perfect by design... what would your existence be like if you were perfect from the beginning?... it would take the beauty of growth away from us...

 

[onefour1]

Nothing is born perfect by design... what would your existence be like if you were perfect from the beginning?... it would take the beauty of growth away from us...

If you have read all my posts, I would agree that we are not born perfect by design since the design of God was to create us from self-existing intelligence that could not be created or made and thus could not be created perfect. I was playing devil's advocate with those on this forum to see if they would come up with a good reason why God wouldn't simply create us perfect.

I would imagine that if God could create intelligence then we would be perfect from the beginning and not have to go through all the pain, suffering and death that we experience in this life. We would from the beginning be like God. But since I believe that God made mankind from intelligence that has always existed and was not nor could be created, He could not create us perfect. Thus the experience of this earth life and the need to learn good and evil became necessary for our progression to become more like God.

 

[toobfreak]

GOD was revealed thru Jesus.

Very true. God was revealed to the Israelites through Jesus, but down throughout history, God has revealed himself to many persons and peoples in many different ways and times. If you really think about it, this MUST be true, as why else would God choose to only reveal himself to so few in such a limited time? The real problem is that many just are not ready for God, and choose not to see him not yet ready in that part of their spiritual evolution to move up to higher realization of the true nature of the universe that our universe is life, is consciousness, all coming from a supreme, original cause which is God.

Worse to the atheists, there really is no conflict between physical science and God. I think where many get lost is in the writers of the Old Testament attempting to describe the creation of the universe best as they understood as occurring in six days and the Earth being only a few thousand years old when it clearly is older, but then, the Bible never makes clear just what a "day" was to God.

 

[SweetSue92]

I agree that God knew all from the beginning. I question that God create us to be perfect like Himself. I agree that God already had the perfect sacrifice lined up to save us. However, if were create to be perfect like God himself, salvation would not have been necessary. I agree that He knows the end from the beginning and that it was truly worth it. My question to you is why was it the best choice to create us as inferior beings and not to be exactly like God Himself?

He did create us to be perfect beings, and then we fell. In Heaven we will be perfect beings again.

 

[Rambunctious]

If you have read all my posts, I would agree that we are not born perfect by design since the design of God was to create us from self-existing intelligence that could not be created or made and thus could not be created perfect. I was playing devil's advocate with those on this forum to see if they would come up with a good reason why God wouldn't simply create us perfect.

I would imagine that if God could create intelligence then we would be perfect from the beginning and not have to go through all the pain, suffering and death that we experience in this life. We would from the beginning be like God. But since I believe that God made mankind from intelligence that has always existed and was not nor could be created, He could not create us perfect. Thus the experience of this earth life and the need to learn good and evil became necessary for our progression to become more like God.

Exactly... well said...

 

[expat500]

Anthropomorphising G-d is not the way to go.

 

[Blues Man]

not sure,,

Don;t you think you should find out?

 

[Blues Man]

I believe that if we are imperfect beings with free will, we would likely never always make "right" choices.

God, as the overseer of our temporary mortal existence, has the right and authority to remove any human from this temporary existence since it is his plan and our voluntary participation.

The created can never be volunteers

if we are imperfect then a perfect god intentionally made us imperfect. Then that god would punish us for not being perfect.

The god of the bible is not asking for volunteers he actually commands humans to love him
Jesus stated to love me is to obey my commands

so it seems to me that the god of the bible equates love with servitude which brings up the question , why would a perfect god need to create these imperfect humans to fulfill its need for love that is so great it is commanded under threat of damnation that we love him?

 

[Meriweather]

Is YHWH's power limited?

He has all the power it is possible to have.

Please don't go into, "Does He have the power to build a rock so large that not even He can move it?" That's where change in definitions lead. In circles.

 

[progressive hunter]

Don;t you think you should find out?

why???

 

[LibertyKid]

My understanding from scripture is that God is all knowing and because of this He is able to prophesy of things to come in the future and it will come to pass. I believe that being all knowing is part of being all powerful and visa versa.

1 John 3:20
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Maybe all knowing to the point what is knowable.
The verse you cite hardly backs up a God who knows everything from beginning to its ultimate end.

Here is a good thought on this topic

How does an Open Theist explain all the prophecies fulfilled in the life of Jesus? - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

Question: Throughout the Gospels it says that Jesus “fulfilled that which was written.” Some of these prophecies are very specific and involve free decisions of people. For example, a guard freely chose to give Jesus vinegar instead of water (Jn 19:28), yet John says this was prophesied in the...

reknew.org

 

[onefour1]

He did create us to be perfect beings, and then we fell. In Heaven we will be perfect beings again.

To this I would ask if Adam and Eve, before the fall, had a perfect knowledge of all things? Did they know what good and evil were? Yes, they were immortal and perfect in many ways but they had not yet experienced good and evil and only after the fall did they begin to understand and then God exclaimed:

Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Only after the fall did Adam and Eve BECOME like them, the Gods. It was a progression in the knowledge of good and evil which they didn't have in the garden prior to the fall. So in knowledge, Adam and Eve were not perfect.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

My understanding from scripture is that God is all knowing and because of this He is able to prophesy of things to come in the future and it will come to pass. I believe that being all knowing is part of being all powerful and visa versa.

1 John 3:20
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Irrational Science Led to Its Century's Irrational Politics. Heisenberg Became a Nazi.

Even a god cannot know the future, because it doesn't exist at all until it is reached. It's the same as saying, "God can tell us what unicorns are like." This contradiction is the origin of the goofy-nerd "physics" of time-travel.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Gods were used/needed to legitimize rulers

How the Rulers Want Us to "Think"

Low-IQ logic would conclude that anyone who agrees that religion is the "opiate of the masses" must love Communism.

 

[onefour1]

The created can never be volunteers

if we are imperfect then a perfect god intentionally made us imperfect. Then that god would punish us for not being perfect.

The god of the bible is not asking for volunteers he actually commands humans to love him
Jesus stated to love me is to obey my commands

so it seems to me that the god of the bible equates love with servitude which brings up the question , why would a perfect god need to create these imperfect humans to fulfill its need for love that is so great it is commanded under threat of damnation that we love him?

Before coming to this earth we, as spirit children of God, voluntarily chose to come to this earth and receive a body of flesh and bones in order that we might become more like our Father in Heaven.

God only intentionally made us imperfect because our intelligences were not perfect and only through self-existing intelligence are we made. The agreement made before heaven is that we would come down to earth and learn to walk by faith and have a chance to become more like God. God would reveal himself to us through ministering angels and prophets but we would have to exercise faith believe in him and his ways of goodness without being in his presence as we were before we came to this earth His commandments are a way to become more like God. That is why He has given us commandments.

God is the epitome of love. Teaching us all to love as God loves and to do unto others as we would have other do unto us, A person who would want to be like Jesus would love and honor him and his way of life. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light of how we can become more like our Heavenly Father. Jesus loved us sooo dearly that he layed down his life for our sake. Not only so we could resurrect and become immortal but to gain forgiveness of sin. Because he is the way to eternal life, he commands us to keep his commandments to avoid damnation. Servitude is part of love. We are not only to serve God but to also serve our fellow man. In this way we learn to care for others.

 

[Libby von H]

The root of the omni words in not simply 'everything' like 'knowing everything'. The original meanings all had a caveat. For example, 'omniscient' is knowing everything as soon as it is knowable. Sometime over the years, people started using it as also knowing something before it was even thought of. The original use is more accurate.

The same is true for omnipotent--having all the power it is possible to have. Usage changed its definition to unlimited power.

No, that is false and easlity shown to be so
IF all was created down to its utter core by the Creator and is sustained in being also by the Creator what possible could it not do? Did it create something beyond its own power? Does that even make sense.
Even less so your statement about omniscience since 'prior' to bringing someting into being it must be known utterly.

 

[onefour1]

He has all the power it is possible to have.

Please don't go into, "Does He have the power to build a rock so large that not even He can move it?" That's where change in definitions lead. In circles.

I agree. I don't believe God has the power to anything imaginable. I think he has the power to do all things that are possible. Can God be an all good being and simultaneously be and all evil being? I don't think so. Also if something is self-existent then I don't believe he has to power to create that very self-existent thing. I think the term, "ALL POWERFUL" = the power to do all that is possible. In other words, God is not capable to do that which is infinitely impossible to do. Another example is whether God can exist and simultaneously not exist. I don't believe that is possible.