If God is all powerful...

[hobelim]

G-d is warning everyone that your sins are killing you. G-d offers a gift of forgiveness, to those who accept and repent of their evil ways, and will save your very soul for eternity.

But just 'believing' in G-d has no effect. The Devil and his Demons, all 'believe' G-d exists... still going to their eternal punishment for their evil.

Evil is a deliberate thing that requires a conscious decision to reject what is good. A person cannot reject the truth and embrace evil unless the distinction between good and evil is revealed to them.

When Jesus first appeared he said that if he had not come and spoken to them they would not be guilty of sin.

His claim was that they were following the law in the wrong way but according to Jesus it was not a sin until he taught them what the law of God was actually about and they consciously rejected the right way to follow the law and consequently God himself who made the truth known through Jesus.


In the same way, how can anyone be guilty of sin unless the right way to understand the teachings of the law is revealed to them?


Surely you don't base your ideas about what is sinful or not on what Jesus clearly identified as the wrong way to interpret and follow the law, do you?

This is what that verse is referring to. Even those who know nothing of G-d, or G-d's laws, still are a law to themselves, that G-d will judge them on.

ok,, yes..

If a person does not rise to life in this world before they die, never heard of God or never understood his law, they are judged according to their own words and deeds when they die..

Some people have absolutely nothing to worry about, but then again, some people are like Trump.


What then? What is the most sensible course to take?

Strive to understand the will of God and do it. The promise is eternal life. Those who comply with the will of God in the way that he intended the law to be understood and followed, in the way that Jesus revealed, are not subject to judgement when they die.

Those who take part in the first resurrection have already passed from death to life and will never know what it is to die..

 

[Taz]

"G-d is warning everyone that your sins are killing you. G-d offers a gift of forgiveness, to those who accept and repent of their evil ways, and will save your very soul for eternity." Jesus died on the cross for my sins, that bill is already paid.

"But just 'believing' in G-d has no effect. The Devil and his Demons, all 'believe' G-d exists... still going to their eternal punishment for their evil."

This statement is nonsense, well, unless you can prove it.

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

So all you have is a quote from a book of fairy tales? Anything from an actual god?

Provide scientific empirical proof they are fairy tales?

Science doesn't have a way of proving fairy tales. I'd ask you to prove how a woman was made from a man's rib.

You are making my point. The previous poster was making a claim, that he suggested (or implied) was provable using science.

That is not possible. We're talking about a G-d, that as Christians believe, exists outside the realm of this Universe, because he created this Universe and the laws that govern it.

So when you try and tell me such and such is impossible.... yeah, for a human or anything bound to the laws of this Universe. G-d by definition, is not bound by the laws of this Universe.

So you can't 'disprove' G-d, or any miracles he may have done, using science, the laws of which he is not bound to.

God can’t be proven by science or by humans in any way, meaning your god is made up, just like Santa Claus.

 

[hobelim]

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

So all you have is a quote from a book of fairy tales? Anything from an actual god?

Provide scientific empirical proof they are fairy tales?

Science doesn't have a way of proving fairy tales. I'd ask you to prove how a woman was made from a man's rib.

You are making my point. The previous poster was making a claim, that he suggested (or implied) was provable using science.

That is not possible. We're talking about a G-d, that as Christians believe, exists outside the realm of this Universe, because he created this Universe and the laws that govern it.

So when you try and tell me such and such is impossible.... yeah, for a human or anything bound to the laws of this Universe. G-d by definition, is not bound by the laws of this Universe.

So you can't 'disprove' G-d, or any miracles he may have done, using science, the laws of which he is not bound to.

God can’t be proven by science or by humans in any way, meaning your god is made up, just like Santa Claus.

Thats silly.


Science doesn't even know what or where 96% of the universe even is.

 

[Likkmee]

God doesn't "make babies". You do. He also doesn't control this shithole. Satan does.
Remember the part in that old book where He offered Yeshua all of the kingdoms of the earth ? Yeshu told hin to fuck off and refused but many, like your so-called founders, gladly accepted the one nation under the god of this earth. Get it ?

God lets Satan control the Earth?

Wow, God is some kind of pussy, eh?

Personal Responsibility.

Let's look at a basic human family, for instance. Mother and father conceive child. Child is born. Biological life was created by the actions of the parents. While very young responsibility for child lies with mom and dad--and to a lesser extent, the child learns slowly to accept responsibility for actions of self as well.

After some point years later mom and dad must surrender full responsibility to their child who is now an adult. Free will kicks in. A bully at school kicks the child's ass or a group of other kids pressure the child into using. Mom and dad cannot stop every other kid from negatively influencing their child. The only way to that is to kill them all.

Or, the child develops a penchant for torturing kittens. Do mother and father kill their child to prevent further violence, or is free will conditional? Does responsibility for preventing evil acts of the child extend to the parents the burden or right to take their child out of the world same as they brought him in order to prevent further crime?

True unadulterated free will cannot exist without personal responsibility. If we are not accountable for our actions at least to ourselves then who else are we appointing to be our masters?

I imagine Satan as a creation or child of God to be the same as human child to parent. What if Satan was one body divided into billions? You know, just like the INXS song? For God to wipe out Satan he'd have to take out the rest of us in the process. Came close with the flood? Point is, you can't throw out personal responsibility and expect no consequence for your own behavior.

Charles Manson. Adolf Hitler. Do I need to elaborate ?

 

[Baz Ares]

...Why does it makes babies with cancer, or retarded, or deformed, or in pain, or even with all of that together? Is god not capable of a perfect creation? Is it a punishment of some sort?

Well, Because he loves them?
And made them in his own image, I guess.
So the lord must be defective. In many ways.
An imperfect lord. Dang!? What other mistakes
has it made?

 

[hobelim]

...Why does it makes babies with cancer, or retarded, or deformed, or in pain, or even with all of that together? Is god not capable of a perfect creation? Is it a punishment of some sort?

Well, Because he loves them?
And made them in his own image, I guess.
So the lord must be defective. In many ways.
An imperfect lord. Dang!? What other mistakes
has it made?

Either that or the imperfections exist only in your perverse ideas about what constitutes wholeness and health.

Everyone suffers physical decline and death. God who searchers the mind isn't evaluating the condition of the body when separating the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Baz Ares]

...Why does it makes babies with cancer, or retarded, or deformed, or in pain, or even with all of that together? Is god not capable of a perfect creation? Is it a punishment of some sort?

Well, Because he loves them?
And made them in his own image, I guess.
So the lord must be defective. In many ways.
An imperfect lord. Dang!? What other mistakes
has it made?

Either that or the imperfections exist only in your perverse ideas about what constitutes wholeness and health.

Everyone suffers physical decline and death. God who searchers the mind isn't evaluating the condition of the body.

Let's ask the kids with bleeding anal/pussy holes.
That the lord made, in the lords' image, so the priest
can rape them for the loves of the lord.
.

btw. Preist, are also made in the lords' image. Imagine that.

 

[hobelim]

...Why does it makes babies with cancer, or retarded, or deformed, or in pain, or even with all of that together? Is god not capable of a perfect creation? Is it a punishment of some sort?

Well, Because he loves them?
And made them in his own image, I guess.
So the lord must be defective. In many ways.
An imperfect lord. Dang!? What other mistakes
has it made?

Either that or the imperfections exist only in your perverse ideas about what constitutes wholeness and health.

Everyone suffers physical decline and death. God who searchers the mind isn't evaluating the condition of the body.

Let's ask the kids with bleeding anal/pussy holes.
That the lord made, in the lords' image, so the priest
can rape them for the loves of the lord.
.

btw. Preist, are also made in the lords' image. Imagine that.

No, You are mistaken. A perverse person who peddles godflesh and abuses children is not made in the image and likeness of a holy God.

What you are describing sounds more like a person made in the image and likeness of a ghoul.

Don't let one ghoul or ten ghouls or even a legion of ghouls turn you into a jackass.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You still are completely characterizing.

And you are completely avoiding characterizing, because then you know you characterization of God will be scrutinized. This is why you will never do it, and it also gives you the leeway to shit on anyone else's characterization. Therefore, you can make iup any nonsense you wish, and never be "wrong".

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

If a person does not rise to life in this world before they die, never heard of God or never understood his law, they are judged according to their own words and deeds when they die..

Shaman hobelim has spoken! Heed his words, all ye who value your eternal, magical, nonsensical souls!

Give me a break...when you're done, have a go at this ouija board for us, shaman...

Believe what you like. But you are delusional to defer to yourself for the absolute authority an magical nonsense. Yes yes, spare me the, "just read tye scripture, and if you don't agree, you don't have a brain!" Nonsense of "fake deferral".

 

[ding]

You still are completely characterizing.

If G-d demanded something, you would have no choice but to give it.

He's not demanding anything. So the entire premise of your argument is utterly false.

God is demanding that we follow a book or burn forever.

No, that's not how this works.

You are going to burn for your own sins, yourself.

That's on you. Like a wife that chooses to cheat, chooses to destroy her marriage, like a man who chooses to not go to work chooses to be poor and impoverished...... you are sinful and evil, and will pay for your choices yourself.

That's 100%, on you. No one else. Not G-d, not your mother, not society.... just you.

G-d, and his book, are offering you forgiveness for your evil actions. If you accept that, and admit your evil and cruelty, he will forgive you, and offer you freedom from your evil, and salvation in Heaven after this life.

You are making the choice. Just you. You can choose to have G-d in your life, and reap the rewards.... or you choose to not have G-d in your life.... and... whatever you get is whatever you get.

Let me put it another way..... do you think a judges who puts a serial rapist and murderer in prison for life, is a tyrant? Or did the serial rapist and murderer, make their own choice in what happened to them, by choosing to engage in rape and murder?

You..... YOU... are the one making the choice. G-d will not force anything on you. You make the choice about what your eternity looks like.

Actually, there's more proof for re-incarnation than there is for a heaven or hell.

And you can choose to believe that if you wish. But don't say G-d is demanding anything, when you are making all your own choices as to what you believe.

But what god will do if it is real shouldn't depend on whether I believe or not. And even if i don't believe in gravity, it still has an effect on me. Your god doesn't have any effect on me if I don't believe?

What you do however, will.

Haven't you heard? Faith can move mountains.

 

[ding]

...Why does it makes babies with cancer, or retarded, or deformed, or in pain, or even with all of that together? Is god not capable of a perfect creation? Is it a punishment of some sort?

MLK responds...

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obtacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. This applies to the power of a gun, or a drug, or an argument, or even a sermon! Does it achieve its end? Does it fulfill its purpose?

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them. We can see this clearly in human illustrations. My purpose in doing a crossword puzzle is not to fill in certain words. I could fill them in easily by waiting for tomorrow morning's paper. Filling them in without the answers is harder but much more satisfying, for it calls out resourcefulness, ingenuity, and discipline which by the easier way would find no self expression.
Similarly, to borrow an illustration from William James, eleven men battle desperately on a field, risking falling and injury, using up a prodigious amount of energy, and when we ask why, we learn that it is to get an inflated, leather covered sphere called a football across a goal. But if that is all, why doesn't someone get up in the night and put it there? Football games are not played to get a ball across a goal, but to get it there under certain conditions, in a certain way, with certain results in the lives of those concerned. Power to get the ball across the goal is to be interpreted in terms of purposes and only makes sense in the light of those purposes. Action, then, which defeats purpose is weakness. Power is the ability to fulfill purpose. No one knows what it cost God to refrain from intervention when wicked men put his beloved Son to death. But the restraint was not weakness. The Cross became the power of God unto salvation.

MLK was a blow hard who beat up white women for kicks.

Maybe, maybe not. You don't have perfect knowledge of that either. But either way, it doesn't change the answer.

You lack perfect knowledge why God would create the world he did, so you attempt to fit God into your limited and flawed way of seeing things.

westwall nailed you.

westwall nails taz...

westwall is such an imbecile I don't even read what he posts, he's always off point, even more than you. You'd have to sum up his point for me to respond, and I'll show you that he missed the whole point of the OP.

There is no point of the OP other than to subordinate religion and belief in God.

It's what you do. It's what militant atheists do.

 

[ding]

...Why does it makes babies with cancer, or retarded, or deformed, or in pain, or even with all of that together? Is god not capable of a perfect creation? Is it a punishment of some sort?

We don't know what GDs plan is.

So you don't know. Got it.

That's like your standard response.

God is not some mystery to be solved. God is a relationship to be entered into. That's the power of God. You choose not to experience it, so God will never be real to you.

 

[ding]

Free will

Personal responsibility for choice is as impossible to accept as the consequence. If a jailor chains you to a wall can you steal an ear of corn from the fields outside the prison wall? Say the jailor sets you free. First thing you steal some corn and consequences ensue. The farmer can't meet his tax to the dickhead palatine so his family is put to death. Is the Jailor responsible by proxy of setting you free for your crimes against self or others?

Perhaps we'd all be happier if God had kept us chained.

God could have given us free will without all the fucked up stuff. He chose not to. Why?

Wouldn't be free will then, would it? It'd be conditional freedom.

It would be free of bullshit, the ultimate freedom. So why wouldn't god give that to us?

The only ultimate freedom is death; otherwise known as freedom mainlined. The undiscovered country. And death is freedom from responsibility. Perhaps what you seek is a return to emergence from the womb. Even then comes the yolk of personal responsibility to cry when hungry or starve is the consequence. You already possess the maximum free will. Do what you like, when you like, how you like. Just don't blame God for the consequences. Perhaps we are consequences of God's act of creation and he just wants to correct things for the record.

So in your religion, you're only good when you die. Accept your lot in life because you'll be rewarded when you die. A perfect con man's game.

No. In my religion, a relationship with the Trinity is about life in this world.

The best you can hope for is to suffer without complaint in this world.

 

[ding]

God is demanding that we follow a book or burn forever.

Since your OP simply attacks the concept of God which book would that be?

*****SMILE*****

Any religious book.

Not all religious texts consider hell to be a burning pit and in my case I don't have any specific religious text that I follow.

Seems to me that you're making general statements about God that don't hold true.

*****CHUCKLE*****

Seems to everyone else that you're trying to scapegoat your god because it makes deformed babies and cancer.

Seems to me you are trying to assert that unless everything is perfect there can be no God.

 

[ding]

And you can choose to believe that if you wish. But don't say G-d is demanding anything, when you are making all your own choices as to what you believe.

But what god will do if it is real shouldn't depend on whether I believe or not. And even if i don't believe in gravity, it still has an effect on me. Your god doesn't have any effect on me if I don't believe?

Ironically, I pretty much agree with everything you are saying. It's always interesting to me that two people can look at the exact same things, say the same things, and then come to opposite conclusions.

You are correct. What you believe, ultimately will have no effect on the outcome.

A criminal may not believe in justice, may not believe in law enforcement, and may not believe in judgement. But when they drag him off to prison, whether he believes in such things will not matter.

Just like whether you believe in gravity or not, will not matter when you step off the edge of a cliff, and fall.

Whether you believe in life after death, will not matter after you die. If it is real, then you will face it, whether you believe it or not.

Whether you believe in being judged for how you lived your life in that after-life, will not matter once once you die. If it is true that your actions in life will be judged on their merit, you will face that whether you believe in it, or not.

What matters, is not whether you believe.

If you are hooked on Heroin, you can believe that Heroin will ruin your health, or not believe that Heroin will ruin your health. It does not matter. Heroin will ruin your health.

And it's not because you refused to believe the doctors, that the doctor caused the drugs to destroy you.

Just because you don't realize the drugs are killing you, doesn't mean it's the doctors fault, and everything was fine until the doctor warned you that heroin ruins your health.

G-d is warning everyone that your sins are killing you. G-d offers a gift of forgiveness, to those who accept and repent of their evil ways, and will save your very soul for eternity.

But just 'believing' in G-d has no effect. The Devil and his Demons, all 'believe' G-d exists... still going to their eternal punishment for their evil.

"G-d is warning everyone that your sins are killing you. G-d offers a gift of forgiveness, to those who accept and repent of their evil ways, and will save your very soul for eternity." Jesus died on the cross for my sins, that bill is already paid.

"But just 'believing' in G-d has no effect. The Devil and his Demons, all 'believe' G-d exists... still going to their eternal punishment for their evil."

This statement is nonsense, well, unless you can prove it.

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

So all you have is a quote from a book of fairy tales? Anything from an actual god?

You mean besides everything he has created; space and time, physical laws, biological laws and moral laws.

There is more than enough physical evidence to logically prove the existence of God.

 

[ding]

Because he’s a sick fuck

If he's right, I think BF just proved the "Created in his image" part

Created in his image means we have a mind; consciousness.

The only solution to the first cause conundrum is something which is eternal and unchanging; something made not of matter. The only thing I can think of that fits that bill is consciousness.

 

[ding]

...Why does it makes babies with cancer, or retarded, or deformed, or in pain, or even with all of that together? Is god not capable of a perfect creation? Is it a punishment of some sort?

Why do you have to ask simple questions?

How do you know that an infant baby actually feel painful?

God doesn't usually provide maintenance of a place outside His dwelling realm. Inside His dwelling realm it's a heaven, out of it it's a hell. Ever since Adam was kicked out of Eden, humans are living outside God's realm. Earth is supposed to be a hell like place ever since then. That's why the Noah story. Earth is supposed to be destroyed long time ago.

However God has an unfinished job here, that is to save His sheep. Earth is thus protected at least from Satan's active physical access. God's job however is to save the souls of His sheep, not any physical bodies. Earth is left as it is as long as His sheep won't complain now and especially in future.

Matthew 24:22 (NIV2011)
If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.


Have you heard of Neanderthal genes found in humans? You give deformed babies by several ways, such as marrying close relatives without God's permission and blessing. Interbreed with other species such as the Neanderthals. God doesn't maintain human genomes. His job here is mostly saving souls.

Man, your god is lame. So your god didn't create everything? If so, why cancer? Why retarded babies? You quote a book but is the book your god? Or was it written by goat herders?

 

[ding]

James 2:19
"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

So all you have is a quote from a book of fairy tales? Anything from an actual god?

Provide scientific empirical proof they are fairy tales?

Science doesn't have a way of proving fairy tales. I'd ask you to prove how a woman was made from a man's rib.

You are making my point. The previous poster was making a claim, that he suggested (or implied) was provable using science.

That is not possible. We're talking about a G-d, that as Christians believe, exists outside the realm of this Universe, because he created this Universe and the laws that govern it.

So when you try and tell me such and such is impossible.... yeah, for a human or anything bound to the laws of this Universe. G-d by definition, is not bound by the laws of this Universe.

So you can't 'disprove' G-d, or any miracles he may have done, using science, the laws of which he is not bound to.

God can’t be proven by science or by humans in any way, meaning your god is made up, just like Santa Claus.

Thus proving your statement that you are agnostic was always a lie.

 

[ding]

...Why does it makes babies with cancer, or retarded, or deformed, or in pain, or even with all of that together? Is god not capable of a perfect creation? Is it a punishment of some sort?

Well, Because he loves them?
And made them in his own image, I guess.
So the lord must be defective. In many ways.
An imperfect lord. Dang!? What other mistakes
has it made?

That's some impressive logic you have there. You must be quite successful in the world with brainpower like that.