IF higher taxes will create jobs, why did the stimulus fail?

[JRK]

jrk

please support your statement that GM was given 600 billion to bail them out...

that's simply not true.

in addition to this, the GM and Chrysler Bail out was initiated by president Bush, in 2008....he went around congress to give them his bailout.....Obama was left with following through with it by March 31st according to the initial Bush bailout for them.

I never have said Gm was given 600 billion
never

 

[JRK]

JRK

president bush added $6 TRILLION to the National Debt not $2.5 trillion.

He began with $5.6 trillion in Debt and his last fiscal year ended with 11.8 trillion in National debt.....

maybe you can lower that by a couple of hundred billion if you count the stimulus spent before the end of his last fiscal year and call it adding $5.7 TRILLION to the national debt, under his watch....but in no way, shape or form, did he only add $2.5 trillion to the National debt.

Your counting interest on monies owed he inherited
Budget 2011: Past Deficits vs. Obama’s Deficits in Pictures | The Foundry
The 09 deficit has about 500 billion that is GWB, even though he never signed any of the legislation that added so much to the debt

As you can see by the graphs it is very close to the number i stated. it could be closer to 3, just as easy as it could be to 2

It is with in those of us who take this stuff serious that we do not count the interest. It does not show the real picture
If you want to do that you are not going to like the monies BHO is added any better than the 3 trillion, its going to be closer to 5 trillion

 

[JRK]

Surely you are not saying that obama could have changed the direction of how unemployment rates were trending by the end of his first month or two in office. We do NOT live in a vacuume and at the end of obama's first full month in office, our unemployment rate was 9.3%....THIS IS WHAT Obama was dealt....8.5% unemployment rate in January, and 9.3% by the end of his first month there....

sheesh, you guys are playing dumb for partisan purposes ONLY.

what does a failed stimulus and the waste of 100s of billions left over from tarp have to do with the UE rate that Obama was dealt?
He told you and I with this 600-700 billion he would save or create 3.5 million jobs and here we are and we have 6 million jobs less now than we did when we started this mess

Libs think, you not thinking is a big part of the reason we are here in this mess
We lost the housing sector by pure greed and the only way this mess can be fixed is creating a new sector large enough and broad enough to replace it

Like shale oil
deep drill
opening up the tax payer owned lands to timber/farm/corn/ethanol
you want me to go on?

Please prove that we are showing 6 million less jobs from let's say March of 09 till today.....

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
the 2008 number is dec 31 2008
thats 7 million
March 08?
2008...... 136,790 114,281 21,334 767 7,162 13,406
2009...... 130,807 108,252 18,557 694 6,016 11,847

2010...... 129,818 107,337 17,755 705 5,526 11,524

March of 08?
each number is the month and begins 3/08
ends 12/10
137841 137656 137423 137245 137014 136747 136313 135804 135002 134383
2009 133563 132837 132041 131381 130995 130493 130193 129962 129726 129505 129450 129320
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.compaes.txt
2010 129281 129246 129438 129715 130173 129981 129932 129873 129844 130015 130108 130229 p

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Raising Taxes will not create a single Job. I'm actually pretty shocked anyone believes it would. If anything,many Jobs would be lost.

 

[JRK]

Sir/Mam
The Us government does not create anything
the tax payer does
The rich
the middle class
Exxon
those who put part of there wealth into the pot, helps create that welath
every penny of it

IT IS 100% OF THE REASON WHY THIS COUNTRY CAN ELECT AN OBAMA, NO DIS RESPECT BUT IT IS FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE

That's retarded. The government is funded by taxes to CREATE wealth in certain areas, such as education, infrastructure, law enforcement, anywhere the government action adds value to the economy.

Your semantics are comical.

You are actually going to post that nonsense? That government spending creates wealth?
Really?!!!!
Give some specific examples of a government program that creates wealth and while it does, operates under or at budget and on time.

Are you claiming that the govt creates wealth by taking wealth away from people, wait, let me try it this way
everything you list the is wealth that has been provided by the tax payer
The tax payer paid for that education, not the govt
the govt does not create wealth
It takes wealth

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Who wants to give the U.S. Government more of their hard-earned money? That just seems like lunacy to me. They've managed to spend $14.5 Trillion more than they took in yet some people still believe the U.S. Government will spend the money properly? Let them balance the Budget or at least come up with some credible ideas on reducing the Debt before they start demanding more Taxpayer Money. I think that's a reasonable request on my part. Sending more of your hard-earned money to the U.S. Government really is like flushing your cash down a toilet. I need to see some real changes first.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Sir/Mam
The Us government does not create anything
the tax payer does
The rich
the middle class
Exxon
those who put part of there wealth into the pot, helps create that welath
every penny of it

IT IS 100% OF THE REASON WHY THIS COUNTRY CAN ELECT AN OBAMA, NO DIS RESPECT BUT IT IS FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE

That's retarded. The government is funded by taxes to CREATE wealth in certain areas, such as education, infrastructure, law enforcement, anywhere the government action adds value to the economy.

Your semantics are comical.

You are actually going to post that nonsense? That government spending creates wealth?
Really?!!!!
Give some specific examples of a government program that creates wealth and while it does, operates under or at budget and on time.

I already gave you a specific example.

 

[NYcarbineer]

People laugh at what they don't understand.

Understand what?

Lunacy?

The Bush tax cuts blew the deficit sky high and did almost nothing to stimulate the economy. In fact..his administration encouraged some extremely dangerous behavior that nearly caused a total collapse of the US economy.

There are billions of uncollected tax dollars..and thats basically in the form of tax cheat tax dollars that could be gotten if congress funded the IRS properly. They don't want to do that. Why? Because it's the wealthiest of Americans that are sitting on the little pot of gold.

Oh, no.....The tax cuts were just fine. GDP began to grow in the successive quarters. It was only until the democrats regained the majority in both houses did the trend begin to revert.
BTW, Bush was no stranger to social spending. As a matter of fact Bush was no conservative. He was a right leaning populist.
Historically speaking, each and every time the US Federal government lowered marginal income tax rates revenue to the federal government increased and as well as growth in economic activity.
The money belongs in the private sector because it belongs TO the private sector.
The problem here is government spends too much and not one person on your side of the aisle is willing to even give fiscal responsibility a look. You will not because that would be admitting defeat. Defeat in that your belief in government's ability to solve all of your problems and create this imaginary level playing field where those who have more are forced by government to give it ...to you.
The entitlement mentality of the Left knows no bounds.

What did Bush and the Democrats do in 2007 to bring on the recession?

Specifically.

 

[NYcarbineer]

By my requiremeents you have no idea what you're talking about.

In order to proclaim the stimulus a failure you have to make assumptions about what would have happened had there been no stimulus.

You just declared that assumptions render a study illegitimate, invalid.

Therefore by your standard no study that declares the stimulus a failure is legitimate if it includes any assumptions that cannot be, as you said, tested.

Uh, no.
I can look at the claims made for the stimulus before it was passed and compare that to what actually happened. When the results fall far far short of what was promised I can say categorically the program was a failure.
I did not declare that assumptions render a study invalid. You are reading things that aren't there.

Nothing was promised. Show us the promise.

 

[HUGGY]

I cannot put it any better

It’s official: Obama’s job stimulus program failed
TAGS: Examiner editorial failure job stimulus President Barack Obama unemployment rate
COMMENTS (0) SHARE PRINT
By: Examiner Editorial 01/22/11 10:00 PM
Democrats have lambasted Republicans for years for believing in “Voodoo economics.” Well, the evidence is mounting that economic superstition is alive and well in the nation’s political circles, though it has nothing to do with a fondness for tax cuts.

It’s instead the crazy belief that the government can spend its way to prosperity for the rest of us. Analyzing this conclusion, the House Ways and Means Committee recently released a report titled “It’s Official: On Unemployment and Jobs, Democrats’ 2009 Stimulus Was a Huge Failure.”

The Ways and Means report provides a number of striking reminders about the predictions the White House made in January 2009 while urging the passage of their $814 billion Keynesian spending bill. By January 2011, the stimulus bill was supposed to have lowered the unemployment rate to 7 percent. It now stands at 9.4 percent, and the report notes that “the unemployment rate would be 11.3 percent if it included all the ‘invisible unemployed’ — American workers who have simply given up looking for work.” The report also said that the stimulus was supposed to create 3.7 million jobs by now, for a total of 137.6 million jobs in the American economy. Currently, there are 130.7 million jobs. Since the stimulus’ passage, 47 of the 50 states have lost jobs; overall, the private sector has seen 1.8 million jobs disappear.

Note as well that unemployment currently is slightly above what the White House predicted it would be if the Obama stimulus program was not passed as emergency legislation. Any honest assessment of the stimulus has to consider the possibility that flawed economics, kickbacks to unions and other Democratic special interests, corruption and an inefficient bureaucracy simply swallowed all the jobs for which those billions were supposed to pay. In fact, job creation exceeded the White House’s expectations in only one area: The District of Columbia created almost twice as many jobs as the White House anticipated. In other words, thanks to the stimulus, the only area growing new jobs is the federal government.



Read more at the San Francisco Examiner: It

You are an idiot. No one of any importance claims that higher taxes will create jobs. What it will do is pay for the wars and SS and Medicare. It will go far in lowering the debt. Did I mention that you are an idiot and a liar?

 

[NYcarbineer]

People laugh at what they don't understand.

Understand what?

Lunacy?

The Bush tax cuts blew the deficit sky high and did almost nothing to stimulate the economy. In fact..his administration encouraged some extremely dangerous behavior that nearly caused a total collapse of the US economy.

There are billions of uncollected tax dollars..and thats basically in the form of tax cheat tax dollars that could be gotten if congress funded the IRS properly. They don't want to do that. Why? Because it's the wealthiest of Americans that are sitting on the little pot of gold.

Spending blew the deficit sky high. .

Spending that would have been PAID FOR had the tax cuts not been imposed.

 

[Sallow]

People laugh at what they don't understand.

Understand what?

Lunacy?

The Bush tax cuts blew the deficit sky high and did almost nothing to stimulate the economy. In fact..his administration encouraged some extremely dangerous behavior that nearly caused a total collapse of the US economy.

There are billions of uncollected tax dollars..and thats basically in the form of tax cheat tax dollars that could be gotten if congress funded the IRS properly. They don't want to do that. Why? Because it's the wealthiest of Americans that are sitting on the little pot of gold.

Oh, no.....The tax cuts were just fine. GDP began to grow in the successive quarters. It was only until the democrats regained the majority in both houses did the trend begin to revert.
BTW, Bush was no stranger to social spending. As a matter of fact Bush was no conservative. He was a right leaning populist.
Historically speaking, each and every time the US Federal government lowered marginal income tax rates revenue to the federal government increased and as well as growth in economic activity.
The money belongs in the private sector because it belongs TO the private sector.
The problem here is government spends too much and not one person on your side of the aisle is willing to even give fiscal responsibility a look. You will not because that would be admitting defeat. Defeat in that your belief in government's ability to solve all of your problems and create this imaginary level playing field where those who have more are forced by government to give it ...to you.
The entitlement mentality of the Left knows no bounds.

And once upon a time..there were 3 bears.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

No one should be in favor of sending more of their hard-earned Money to the U.S. Government. There is no reason to believe they will spend it wisely or properly. Just look at their recent tragic spending history. Massive Corporate Bailouts,$14.5 Trillion in Debt? They have a lot of nerve demanding more Taxpayer Money. They need to fix their own problems first. No Tax-Hikes for the foreseeable future.

 

[NYcarbineer]

By my requiremeents you have no idea what you're talking about.

In order to proclaim the stimulus a failure you have to make assumptions about what would have happened had there been no stimulus.

You just declared that assumptions render a study illegitimate, invalid.

Therefore by your standard no study that declares the stimulus a failure is legitimate if it includes any assumptions that cannot be, as you said, tested.

Uh, no.
I can look at the claims made for the stimulus before it was passed and compare that to what actually happened. When the results fall far far short of what was promised I can say categorically the program was a failure.
I did not declare that assumptions render a study invalid. You are reading things that aren't there.

You should try reading it yourself, assuming you can actually read. Because it says explicitly on Oage 12 that they are making assumptions to arrive at the results.Further, they also say earlier on that they rely on self-reporting from stimulus recipients.

You'd prefer economic modeling without assumptions?

I prefer theories that can be tested. Theirs is reality-proof.

Then you never said the above, highlighted in blue?

lol

 

[NYcarbineer]

That's retarded. The government is funded by taxes to CREATE wealth in certain areas, such as education, infrastructure, law enforcement, anywhere the government action adds value to the economy.

Your semantics are comical.

You are actually going to post that nonsense? That government spending creates wealth?
Really?!!!!
Give some specific examples of a government program that creates wealth and while it does, operates under or at budget and on time.

Are you claiming that the govt creates wealth by taking wealth away from people, wait, let me try it this way
everything you list the is wealth that has been provided by the tax payer
The tax payer paid for that education, not the govt
the govt does not create wealth
It takes wealth

So the taxpayers create wealth.

So taxation has a legitimate role in creating wealth in this country.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Raising Taxes does not create a single Job. Case Closed.

 

[NYcarbineer]

what does a failed stimulus and the waste of 100s of billions left over from tarp have to do with the UE rate that Obama was dealt?
He told you and I with this 600-700 billion he would save or create 3.5 million jobs and here we are and we have 6 million jobs less now than we did when we started this mess

Libs think, you not thinking is a big part of the reason we are here in this mess
We lost the housing sector by pure greed and the only way this mess can be fixed is creating a new sector large enough and broad enough to replace it

Like shale oil
deep drill
opening up the tax payer owned lands to timber/farm/corn/ethanol
you want me to go on?

Please prove that we are showing 6 million less jobs from let's say March of 09 till today.....

ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt
the 2008 number is dec 31 2008
thats 7 million
March 08?
2008...... 136,790 114,281 21,334 767 7,162 13,406
2009...... 130,807 108,252 18,557 694 6,016 11,847

2010...... 129,818 107,337 17,755 705 5,526 11,524

March of 08?
each number is the month and begins 3/08
ends 12/10
137841 137656 137423 137245 137014 136747 136313 135804 135002 134383
2009 133563 132837 132041 131381 130995 130493 130193 129962 129726 129505 129450 129320
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.compaes.txt
2010 129281 129246 129438 129715 130173 129981 129932 129873 129844 130015 130108 130229 p

Why are you starting in March of 08 almost a year before Obama took over?

 

[The Rabbi]

You are actually going to post that nonsense? That government spending creates wealth?
Really?!!!!
Give some specific examples of a government program that creates wealth and while it does, operates under or at budget and on time.

Are you claiming that the govt creates wealth by taking wealth away from people, wait, let me try it this way
everything you list the is wealth that has been provided by the tax payer
The tax payer paid for that education, not the govt
the govt does not create wealth
It takes wealth

So the taxpayers create wealth.

So taxation has a legitimate role in creating wealth in this country.

No. Tacks have a legitimate role in creating wealth. The entire carpet industry depends on them.

 

[The Rabbi]

In order to proclaim the stimulus a failure you have to make assumptions about what would have happened had there been no stimulus.

You just declared that assumptions render a study illegitimate, invalid.

Therefore by your standard no study that declares the stimulus a failure is legitimate if it includes any assumptions that cannot be, as you said, tested.

Uh, no.
I can look at the claims made for the stimulus before it was passed and compare that to what actually happened. When the results fall far far short of what was promised I can say categorically the program was a failure.
I did not declare that assumptions render a study invalid. You are reading things that aren't there.

You should try reading it yourself, assuming you can actually read. Because it says explicitly on Oage 12 that they are making assumptions to arrive at the results.Further, they also say earlier on that they rely on self-reporting from stimulus recipients.

You'd prefer economic modeling without assumptions?

I prefer theories that can be tested. Theirs is reality-proof.

Then you never said the above, highlighted in blue?

lol

I would explain it to you but then I'd have to explain the explanation. And then explain the explanation of the explanation.
And you still wouldn't get it.

 

[Sallow]

Raising Taxes does not create a single Job. Case Closed.

Sure it does.

How exactly are you going to pay the policemen or firemen without taxes?

For that matter..how do you cover the payroll for the military?