If I Shake my Fist at the Sky

[Taz]

Can you prove your existence by posting something? God can't and/or won't.

Why isn’t what he created enough evidence for you?

Evidence of what though?

A creator.

Possibly, but possibly creators, or even something else we can't even imagine. No need to stop on a book written by goat fuckers.

You are a perfect example of what I am talking about.

Except nobody knows wtf you're on about.

 

[ding]

Why isn’t what he created enough evidence for you?

Evidence of what though?

A creator.

Possibly, but possibly creators, or even something else we can't even imagine. No need to stop on a book written by goat fuckers.

You are a perfect example of what I am talking about.

Except nobody knows wtf you're on about.

Only because they have never taken the time to undertake a serious examination of those ancient texts that they mock to seek the understanding that is hidden to them by their pride.

 

[ding]

How do you know it’s not a test?

 

[miketx]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor...

That you're nut like I knew all along.

"That you're nut like I knew all along."

"That you're nut like I knew all along."

"That you're nut like I knew all along."

"That you're nut like I knew all along."

"That you're nut like I knew all along."





I got nothin'

Nut confirmedo.

 

[ding]

Until God picks a religion for all of us to follow, all remain equally possible, and plausibility remains in the eye of the beholder.

It seems to me that you are confusing religion for God.

Don’t you understand anything about evolution, Joe. The very thing you believe is a weakness (i.e. diversity of thought) is actually a strength. There aren’t multiple God’s, there are multiple perceptions of God.

It would be odd if everyone held the same beliefs. Odd and dangerous. Use your brain, Joe. That’s what God gave it to you for.

 

[ding]

Maybe the ancient stories that survived the conquest of Western 'Civilization' are only special because they survived....

No, Joe, They are special because they survived 4500 years of being passed down orally before they were recorded in writing.

The first five books of the Bible (known as the Torah) were written by Moses - an adopted son of the king of Egypt - in approximately 1400 B.C.. These five books focus on the beginning of the nation of Israel; but the first 11 chapters of the Torah records the history that all nations have in common. These allegorical accounts of the history of the world had been passed down from generation to generation orally for thousands of years. Moses did not really write the first 11 chapters of the Bible. Moses was the first Hebrew to record them.

Approximately 800 years before Moses recorded the allegorical accounts of the history of the world. The Chinese recorded this history as symbols in the Chinese language. They drew pictures to express words or ideas. Simple pictures were combined to make more complex thoughts. They used well known history and common everyday things to make a word so people could easily remember it. The account of Genesis found it's way into the Chinese written language because the Chinese had migrated from the cradle of civilization. Prior to this migration they all shared a common history and religion.

The Bible even explains how it was possible for the Chinese to record the account of Genesis 800 years before Moses recorded it. The account of the Tower of Babel was the allegorical account of the great migration from Mesopotamia. This also explains why all ancient cultures have an account of a great flood. Because they all shared a common history and religion before the great migration from the cradle of civilization.

So if we start from the belief that the first eleven chapters of the Torah are an allegorical account of world history before the great migration from Mesopotamia - which was an actual historical event - then the first eleven chapters of the Torah takes on new meaning. Seen in this light these accounts should be viewed less like fairy tales and more like how important information was passed down in ancient times. Just as the Chinese used well known history and everyday things as symbols in their written language to make words easier to remember, ancient man used stories to pass down historical events and important knowledge to future generations. Interspersed in these allegorical accounts of history are wisdoms that they deemed important enough to pass down and remember. Such as man knows right from wrong and when he violates it, rather than abandoning the concept of right and wrong he rationalizes he didn't do wrong. Most people don't even realize this wisdom is in the Torah because they read it critically instead of searching for the wisdom that ancient man knew and found important enough to include in his account of world history.

We have to keep in mind that these accounts are 6,000 years old and were passed down orally from one generation to the next for thousands of years. Surely ancient man believed these accounts were of the utmost importance otherwise they would not have been passed down for thousands of years before they were recorded in writing. We shouldn't view these accounts using the context of the modern world. Unfortunately, we are so far removed from these events that we have lost all original meaning. If you were to ask almost any Jew what the Tower of Babel was about he would have no clue that it was the allegorical account of the great migration from the cradle of civilization. That is not intended to be a criticism. It is intended to be an illustration of just how difficult a task it is to discover the original meaning from ancient accounts from 6,000 years ago. We read these texts like they were written yesterday looking for ways to discredit them and make ourselves feel superior rather than seeking the original meaning and wisdom. Shame on you.

Question EVERYTHING!

You should start with questioning your beliefs.

 

[Taz]

Evidence of what though?

A creator.

Possibly, but possibly creators, or even something else we can't even imagine. No need to stop on a book written by goat fuckers.

You are a perfect example of what I am talking about.

Except nobody knows wtf you're on about.

Only because they have never taken the time to undertake a serious examination of those ancient texts that they mock to seek the understanding that is hidden to them by their pride.

 

[Taz]

How do you know it’s not a test?

A test of how gullible a human can be?

 

[ding]

I am me.

I am.

I can't prove it*, but for purposes of this discussion, I'm as real as you are.

And until He/She/It reveals Him/Her/Itself to me personally and to MY satisfaction, God remains nothing and everything all wrapped up in possibilities.

* Do You Exist?

Your behaviors say otherwise, Joe. Your behaviors only reveal God is nothing to you.

 

[ding]

How do you know it’s not a test?

A test of how gullible a human can be?

Wisdom is not given to just any jackanape, Taz.

 

[ding]

A creator.

Possibly, but possibly creators, or even something else we can't even imagine. No need to stop on a book written by goat fuckers.

You are a perfect example of what I am talking about.

Except nobody knows wtf you're on about.

Only because they have never taken the time to undertake a serious examination of those ancient texts that they mock to seek the understanding that is hidden to them by their pride.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[ding]

Before deciding..... ask yourself, "Which wolf am I feeding?"

~The wolf that wins is the wolf you feed.
--Native American Proverb | Post A Message to The Future Here.

 

[ding]

Your behaviors.

And god doesn't like the way i act?

That’s between you and him.

So it's a problem or not?

I guess you’ll find out.

Everyone will find out, Dude.

I'll find out if spending some of my precious time preaching against The God of Abraham is gonna punch my ticket to a special place in hell as promised in those ancient Arab tales, and you'll find out how much, if any, of your precious Time spent worshiping The God of those dusty Arab stories was wasted. Kind of exciting bets that we're making with the one commodity we share that truly is precious.

Time is precious. Spend it wisely.

Did I mention that Time is precious?

You got it all wrong, Joe. Instead of worrying about your destination, you should be worrying about your journey. God isn't interested in your destination, He's interested in your journey.

 

[ding]

How do you know it’s not a test?

A test of how gullible a human can be?

In a way, yes, but not how you think it is.

 

[Taz]

How do you know it’s not a test?

A test of how gullible a human can be?

Wisdom is not given to just any jackanape, Taz.

But you got it?

 

[Taz]

Possibly, but possibly creators, or even something else we can't even imagine. No need to stop on a book written by goat fuckers.

You are a perfect example of what I am talking about.

Except nobody knows wtf you're on about.

Only because they have never taken the time to undertake a serious examination of those ancient texts that they mock to seek the understanding that is hidden to them by their pride.

Thank you for proving my point.

You proved mine.

 

[Taz]

God isn't interested in your destination, He's interested in your journey.

How do you know that?

 

[Andylusion]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

Not really.

G-d is under no obligation to prove anything to you. It's kind of like you shaking your fist at me, and saying that you are not impressed with my existence.

My response would be something along the lines of.... "That's nice" and I move on.....

That much is all it would take, Bro.

And I seriously doubt that you would let it get to me shaking my fist at you in frustration over your lack of response. I imagine that you would jump right in at "Hey Bud..."

That much would prove your existence to me. I could then acknowledge your presence and offer to buy you a beer and see if you are worth spending any of my precious Time with.

Time is the only currency that the greedy can't hoard or manipulate. It MUST be spent wisely.

`​

I assume that you have seen at some point, those videos where the lady in the car is freaking out at a police officer that pulled her over. The lady, or guy, ends up tased, arrested, sometimes maced, and ends up going to jail.

I've been pulled over more than a few times in my life, some for speeding, some for things I thought were bad calls on the officers part.

In all cases, I responded to a "Yes Sir", and obeyed every command I was given, even if I thought the officer was incorrect in giving me a ticket. In all cases, I have never been tazed, never maced, never dragged out of my car, arrested or sent to jail.

Throughout life, how you approach people, makes a difference in how they respond. If you are freaking out at the cashier, they are less likely to give you a refund on your cold chicken nuggets.

When I worked at a Grocery store, I can remember one specific cashier, that their standard practice on a price lookup, depended on how the customer asked. If they asked in anger or frustration, or condescendingly, she would pick up the phone and call the manager. This would hold up the customer, and everyone behind them, until the manager came and did the price lookup.

If the customer asked pleasantly with politeness and courtesy, then the cashier will do the lookup herself, taking just a minute or two.

I would wager that if people came to you yourself, and asked for help on a matter, that you would also be less inclined to help if they asked in a demanding fashion, with an "I'm owed your help" attitude. Equally, I wager you would be more inclined to help, if they asked humbly, and politely with a "I know you don't have to, but I would appreciate it" attitude.

Now if you can understand that, at a human level... please apply that to G-d. You are not 'owed' a response. If you don't want to believe, it's all good with G-d. That's on you.

If you really, honestly, politely, wish that G-d will make himself known to you... I personally am a firm believer that G-d does answer honest people, asking honest questions. I firmly believe this. I know it's true, because G-d has responded to me at times in my life. I know he's there, and he is with me, and he will always be there. It's not even a debatable question in my life.

Now I don't know what is going on in your life, that led you to the point you are shaking your fist at G-d. We all have pain and suffering in our lives. Sometimes of our own making, and other times, from those around us.

But G-d didn't do that. This world is screwed up because of us, not him. So acting like we are owed something.... no we are not. None of us are.

 

[presonorek]

Doh!!
​

How could I forget option 4)?!? The Conservative option!

4) God is afraid to fuck with Mar-a-lago and I'm just a lucky annoyance.

Hey! It could happen!

Possibilities!​

Maybe your problem is you don’t have a good perception of what God is?

Why is it that you expect God to do tricks for you or announce himself for you?

Who are you?

I am me.

I am.

I can't prove it*, but for purposes of this discussion, I'm as real as you are.

And until He/She/It reveals Him/Her/Itself to me personally and to MY satisfaction, God remains nothing and everything all wrapped up in possibilities.

* Do You Exist?



Until God picks a religion for all of us to follow, all remain equally possible, and plausibility remains in the eye of the beholder.

​

Can you prove your existence by posting something? God can't and/or won't.

Why isn’t what he created enough evidence for you?

None of the creation is signed. It could have been Zeus.

 

[presonorek]

If I shake my fist at the sky and declare to God that I am impressed with neither his presence nor his proofs to date, and I challenge the aforementioned God to kill me now or forever be regarded and described by me as fictitious, does that prove anything?

Not really.

G-d is under no obligation to prove anything to you. It's kind of like you shaking your fist at me, and saying that you are not impressed with my existence.

My response would be something along the lines of.... "That's nice" and I move on.....

That much is all it would take, Bro.

And I seriously doubt that you would let it get to me shaking my fist at you in frustration over your lack of response. I imagine that you would jump right in at "Hey Bud..."

That much would prove your existence to me. I could then acknowledge your presence and offer to buy you a beer and see if you are worth spending any of my precious Time with.

Time is the only currency that the greedy can't hoard or manipulate. It MUST be spent wisely.

`​

I assume that you have seen at some point, those videos where the lady in the car is freaking out at a police officer that pulled her over. The lady, or guy, ends up tased, arrested, sometimes maced, and ends up going to jail.

I've been pulled over more than a few times in my life, some for speeding, some for things I thought were bad calls on the officers part.

In all cases, I responded to a "Yes Sir", and obeyed every command I was given, even if I thought the officer was incorrect in giving me a ticket. In all cases, I have never been tazed, never maced, never dragged out of my car, arrested or sent to jail.

Throughout life, how you approach people, makes a difference in how they respond. If you are freaking out at the cashier, they are less likely to give you a refund on your cold chicken nuggets.

When I worked at a Grocery store, I can remember one specific cashier, that their standard practice on a price lookup, depended on how the customer asked. If they asked in anger or frustration, or condescendingly, she would pick up the phone and call the manager. This would hold up the customer, and everyone behind them, until the manager came and did the price lookup.

If the customer asked pleasantly with politeness and courtesy, then the cashier will do the lookup herself, taking just a minute or two.

I would wager that if people came to you yourself, and asked for help on a matter, that you would also be less inclined to help if they asked in a demanding fashion, with an "I'm owed your help" attitude. Equally, I wager you would be more inclined to help, if they asked humbly, and politely with a "I know you don't have to, but I would appreciate it" attitude.

Now if you can understand that, at a human level... please apply that to G-d. You are not 'owed' a response. If you don't want to believe, it's all good with G-d. That's on you.

If you really, honestly, politely, wish that G-d will make himself known to you... I personally am a firm believer that G-d does answer honest people, asking honest questions. I firmly believe this. I know it's true, because G-d has responded to me at times in my life. I know he's there, and he is with me, and he will always be there. It's not even a debatable question in my life.

Now I don't know what is going on in your life, that led you to the point you are shaking your fist at G-d. We all have pain and suffering in our lives. Sometimes of our own making, and other times, from those around us.

But G-d didn't do that. This world is screwed up because of us, not him. So acting like we are owed something.... no we are not. None of us are.

I don't think anybody ever gets pissed at G-d. People get pissed at what others say G-d is. It is a quite confusing thing if you think about it. People like you tell us we are horrible for not loving G-d. It would be like everybody in your life telling you that you don't love Dave Wentonteen enough and you should be careful because one day Dave Wentontern is going to kick your butt cheeks.

Assume you heard this all your life from 90% of the people you knew. Wouldn't you want to kick Dave Wentonteen's ass or even assume there is no Dave Wentonteen?