If Jesus couldn't keep HIMSELF out of trouble...

[Divine Wind]

I re-read the OP, and one could get the idea that you want to be saved, Wonky.

Actually, I very much doubt that there is anything after death besides total oblivion.

Isn't that a matter of faith, Wonky? A logical, completely natural universe-based person would simply admit a complete lack of knowledge about a spiritual world beyond this one. Since its existence cannot be proven or disproven, then the logical conclusion is to ignore it until it could be done. This is why I think militant atheism is more like a religion than the pure, science and logic based platforms on which they claim to stand.

One of their high priests, Richard Dawkins, established a 7-point belief scale on which he placed himself a "6.9". That is illogical for the reasons previously mentioned. The only logical place for a non-believer is 4: Completely impartial agnostic. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable." To argue differently is a matter of faith, not science.

Spectrum of theistic probability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Luissa]

Bottom line. The Bible isn't for everyone.

It's great literature, but a lot of harm has come from making it into more than that.

And Communism, which is state-sponsored atheism, has killed a hundred million people.

Did you have a point?

You do have a point... But I liked what Bill Maher had to say on this the other night. In the case of North Korea especially, in communist dictatorships it is like a religion. They believe mythical stories about their leaders, and treat them like Gods.
I don't agree with state not allowing any religion, so it is a good thing I live in the US.
Where it is alright for me to be agnostic and for you to be christian.

 

[Luissa]

I re-read the OP, and one could get the idea that you want to be saved, Wonky.

Actually, I very much doubt that there is anything after death besides total oblivion.

Isn't that a matter of faith, Wonky? A logical, completely natural universe-based person would simply admit a complete lack of knowledge about a spiritual world beyond this one. Since its existence cannot be proven or disproven, then the logical conclusion is to ignore it until it could be done. This is why I think militant atheism is more like a religion than the pure, science and logic based platforms on which they claim to stand.

One of their high priests, Richard Dawkins, established a 7-point belief scale on which he placed himself a "6.9". That is illogical for the reasons previously mentioned. The only logical place for a non-believer is 4: Completely impartial agnostic. Exactly 50 per cent. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable." To argue differently is a matter of faith, not science.

Spectrum of theistic probability - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I admit I don't know anything about while we are really here. I hope that Chistians are right and there is an after life, I am scared of not existing for some reason. I know it won't matter but it still scares me. I just don't have faith that heaven exists.

 

[daveman]

No matter how much you say I'm arrogant, you'll always be wrong.

Thanks for proving I'm right.

You just lack the intelligence to see it.

It was a joke, Davey. And obviously too subtle for you, at that.

Jokes are supposed to be funny. Try again.

 

[Divine Wind]

I admit I don't know anything about while we are really here. I hope that Chistians are right and there is an after life, I am scared of not existing for some reason. I know it won't matter but it still scares me. I just don't have faith that heaven exists.

Nothing to fear, Luissa. After death you will be as at peace as you were before you were born. Since we are all condemned to death as mortal beings, there is no sense in fearing the inevitable. Live well. Love well. Be a good soul and fear not what happens to people of a good heart.

Despite the parables, I seriously doubt the streets of heaven are paved in gold, guarded by United States Marines and that we'll all spend eternity strumming harps and singing hosannas. It is as impossible for a mortal being to fully comprehend God and heaven as it is for an ant to comprehend an aircraft carrier. We can understand pieces of it, but not it's completeness because our brains are simply incapable of holding such a large thought.

 

[daveman]

It's great literature, but a lot of harm has come from making it into more than that.

And Communism, which is state-sponsored atheism, has killed a hundred million people.

Did you have a point?

You do have a point... But I liked what Bill Maher had to say on this the other night. In the case of North Korea especially, in communist dictatorships it is like a religion. They believe mythical stories about their leaders, and treat them like Gods.
I don't agree with state not allowing any religion, so it is a good thing I live in the US.
Where it is alright for me to be agnostic and for you to be christian.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

I re-read the OP, and one could get the idea that you want to be saved, Wonky.

Actually, I very much doubt that there is anything after death besides total oblivion.

Isn't that a matter of faith, Wonky?

It would be a matter of faith if I said categorically that there is nothing after death but oblivion. I merely said that I doubted it.

A logical, completely natural universe-based person would simply admit a complete lack of knowledge about a spiritual world beyond this one. Since its existence cannot be proven or disproven, then the logical conclusion is to ignore it until it could be done.

Not necessarily. There might be as-yet undiscovered evidence one way or the other. I would certainly not have a problem with the pursuit of further knowledge.

This is why I think militant atheism is more like a religion than the pure, science and logic based platforms on which they claim to stand.

I agree. That's why I'm not an atheist, militant or otherwise.

 

[Divine Wind]

It would be a matter of faith if I said categorically that there is nothing after death but oblivion. I merely said that I doubted it.

Understood, but my point is that doubt, itself, is a matter of faith. To admit ignorance of something, one way or another, is one thing. To express an opinion on its existence or non-existence without evidence is neither logical nor scientific. It is, from one perspective, a matter of faith.

I'm inclined to believe in a spiritual universe beyond our closed natural universe. That's a matter of faith.

Not necessarily. There might be as-yet undiscovered evidence one way or the other. I would certainly not have a problem with the pursuit of further knowledge.

Agreed. In fact work in Quantum Physics is likely to yield the most likely results in this area by opening the fabric of space time and peering beyond it.

An infinite number of universes would yield an infinite number of possibilities.

Multiverse or Meta-Universe

 

[ABikerSailor]

Hey.......the've found actual amino acids in various meteors that have come from space.

 

[logical4u]

Hey.......the've found actual amino acids in various meteors that have come from space.

Isn't that where the Lord lives?????

 

[daveman]

Hey.......the've found actual amino acids in various meteors that have come from space.

So?

 

[Divine Wind]

Hey.......the've found actual amino acids in various meteors that have come from space.

Isn't that where the Lord lives?????

Just floating around in space? Hardly.

Has anyone seen Voyage - the 1/10 billionth scale model of the Solar System? There are a few around the country. I saw the one in Corpus Christi, Tx. It's very cool, but the most shocking thing I noticed was that space was immense and that our Solar System was almost pure space with a couple of tiny pebbles floating around in it.

To think that an entity such as God is not only larger than our Solar System, but larger than the Universe is completely incomprehensible. Those fire-and-brimstone preachers who say they know what God wants are talking through their hats. It's barely possible for a human being to even comprehend God much less "know" God or know what God wants.

We have inklings of what God wants. Glimpses. Glimmerings. A few key ideas maybe. Know? No friggin' way.

 

[Divine Wind]

Hey.......the've found actual amino acids in various meteors that have come from space.

So?

It indicates life exists beyond our own planet.

One problem we, the human race, has had historically is egocentrism. Heck, the authorities locked up Galileo for suggesting that mankind wasn't the center of the Universe.

Don't get me wrong. I believe in the Almighty. I just don't believe that human beings are the center of God's focus. The Universe is a very HUGE place. It might be only one of God's creations. It would be egocentric to think that only we, mortal humans, are God's only concern. Humans who think God is only concerned for them is very selfish in my opinion. In the end, we are all ONE with God, but we should not make the selfish mistake that God thinks we are the ONE.

 

[daveman]

Hey.......the've found actual amino acids in various meteors that have come from space.

So?

It indicates life exists beyond our own planet.

One problem we, the human race, has had historically is egocentrism. Heck, the authorities locked up Galileo for suggesting that mankind wasn't the center of the Universe.

Don't get me wrong. I believe in the Almighty. I just don't believe that human beings are the center of God's focus. The Universe is a very HUGE place. It might be only one of God's creations. It would be egocentric to think that only we, mortal humans, are God's only concern. Humans who think God is only concerned for them is very selfish in my opinion. In the end, we are all ONE with God, but we should not make the selfish mistake that God thinks we are the ONE.

I agree the universe is a big place, and I'd be surprised if we were the only game in town.

 

[Luissa]

Part of thinks we were aliens... one never knows.
ONe reason why I am agnostic and not atheist, is the fact that humans evolved fast than any other animal.
My other problem is why cant you be christian and believe in evolution? Why couldn't God be smart enough to realize that we need to evolve with our environment?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Wrong again. It's a logical fallacy - which is your stock in trade.

You think that actual knowledge of the subject you are arguing about is a logical fallacy?

 

[Uncensored2008]

An Israeli kibbutz.

The Sandinistas are Catholic.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I don't think it's solely a question of comprehension. It's completely different to read the book and use it as a guide for your life.

That's nice; but if you are going to argue the doctrinal intricacies of the Bible, actually having read it is a prerequisite.

Wonky is arguing from a position of abject ignorance.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Part of thinks we were aliens... one never knows.
ONe reason why I am agnostic and not atheist, is the fact that humans evolved fast than any other animal.
My other problem is why cant you be christian and believe in evolution? Why couldn't God be smart enough to realize that we need to evolve with our environment?

I know a lot of Christians who believe in evolution. I even know some who believe in gravity..

I'm also agnostic because I am not arrogant enough to believe that I have the knowledge needed to deny the possibility of a god.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

Wrong again. It's a logical fallacy - which is your stock in trade.

You think that actual knowledge of the subject you are arguing about is a logical fallacy?

Why don't you display what you think is actual knowledge? You know, just for a change.