If Muslims believe in the Koran, they must become Christian

[Sunni Man]

Isa defeats all nonmuslims if they refuse to become Muslims. Isa is NOT Jesus.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet ....

 

[Tilly]

Isa is clearly NOT Jesus Christ:

The Muslim Jesus

The first thing that Christians need to understand regarding the Islamic belief about Jesus is that Muslims of course reject the idea that Jesus was or is the Son of God.

According to Islam, Jesus is not as the Bible articulates, God in the flesh.
Secondly, in Islamic belief, Jesus never died on a cross for the sins of mankind.

The Quran specifically denies that Jesus was ever crucified or that He ever experienced death. Muslims believe that after Allah miraculously delivered Jesus from death, he was assumed into heaven alive in a similar fashion to the biblical narrative regarding Elijah.

Since then, Muslims believe, Jesus has remained with Allah and has been awaiting his opportunity to return to the earth to finish his ministry and complete his life.

As such, to the Islamic mind, Jesus was not in any way a “savior”. To Muslims, Jesus was merely another prophet in the long line of prophets that Allah has sent to mankind. The special title of Messiah, although retained in the Islamic tradition, is essentially stripped of any truly biblically defined Messianic characteristics.

According to the sacred texts of Islam, as we are about to see, when Jesus returns, it most certainly will not be to restore the Nation of Israel to the Jewish people. Nor will Jesus’ purpose be to save and deliver his faithful followers from the ongoing persecution of the Antichrist.

In order to understand the Islamic concept of Jesus’ return, the first thing that needs to be realized is that when Jesus comes back, he comes back as a radical Muslim!....

Typical

Chapter Six

 

[Zoom-boing]

Jesus is relegated to mere prophet status in Islam. However, Isa does not really resemble Jesus at all. Just another example of plagiarism on the part of Islam.

Incorrect

Jesus (Isa) in the Quran is said to have been born to the virgin Mary, was a prophet of God, performed healing miracles, and raised dead people back to life. ....

Your koran is wrong.

Jesus is the son of God.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Isa is clearly NOT Jesus Christ:

The Muslim Jesus

The first thing that Christians need to understand regarding the Islamic belief about Jesus is that Muslims of course reject the idea that Jesus was or is the Son of God.

According to Islam, Jesus is not as the Bible articulates, God in the flesh.
Secondly, in Islamic belief, Jesus never died on a cross for the sins of mankind.

The Quran specifically denies that Jesus was ever crucified or that He ever experienced death. Muslims believe that after Allah miraculously delivered Jesus from death, he was assumed into heaven alive in a similar fashion to the biblical narrative regarding Elijah.

Since then, Muslims believe, Jesus has remained with Allah and has been awaiting his opportunity to return to the earth to finish his ministry and complete his life.

As such, to the Islamic mind, Jesus was not in any way a “savior”. To Muslims, Jesus was merely another prophet in the long line of prophets that Allah has sent to mankind. The special title of Messiah, although retained in the Islamic tradition, is essentially stripped of any truly biblically defined Messianic characteristics.

According to the sacred texts of Islam, as we are about to see, when Jesus returns, it most certainly will not be to restore the Nation of Israel to the Jewish people. Nor will Jesus’ purpose be to save and deliver his faithful followers from the ongoing persecution of the Antichrist.

In order to understand the Islamic concept of Jesus’ return, the first thing that needs to be realized is that when Jesus comes back, he comes back as a radical Muslim!....

Typical

Chapter Six

The koran is wrong

 

[Tilly]

Isa is clealry not Jesus Christ:

Jesus: The Greatest Muslim Evangelist

Islamic tradition teaches that because Jesus will declare himself to be a Muslim, he will lead many Christians to convert to Islam. Regarding those who do not convert to Islam, the Quran states that Jesus will be a witness against them on the Day of Judgment:

There is not one of the People of the Scripture (Christians and Jews) but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them. (Surah 4:159)



Commenting on the above verse, Mufti Muhammad Shafi and Mufti Mohammad Rafi Usmani in their book, Signs of the Qiyama [the final judgement] and the Arrival of the Maseeh [the Messiah] explain that the phrase “will believe in him before his death” means that Christians and Jews will:

…confirm that he is alive and has not died and he is not God or the Son of God but (merely) His (Allah’s) slave and Messenger, and Isa (Jesus) will testify against those who had called him son of God, the Christians, and those who had belied him, the Jews.

Chapter Six

 

[Tilly]

Hmm. Not very Christ like (because Isa is NOT Jesus)

Jesus Will Abolish Christianity

It is crucial to understand that according to Islamic tradition and belief, when Jesus returns, he does not merely come to convert most Christians to Islam but to literally abolish Christianity entirely. This fact is understood when we analyze a very well-known, and oft-quoted tradition that refers to four specific things that Jesus will do when he returns. Jesus is said to:

1. Break crosses.
2. Kill all swine.
3. Abolish the jizyah tax (a Muslim tax on non-Muslims)
4. Kill the Muslim antichrist and his followers.

The Prophet said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus. He will descent (sic) (to the earth)… He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. Allah will perish all religions except Islam. 13

The three actions of breaking “the cross”, killing pigs and abolishing the jizyah tax are based on the notion that Jesus will eliminate all other religions on the earth other than Islam. Shafi and Usmani explain that to “break the cross” means to “abolish worship of the cross”. Several Muslim friends that I’ve spoken with have expressed their understanding of this tradition: Jesus will break or remove all crosses from the rooftops and steeples of churches throughout the earth. This action will thus indicate that Jesus will be making a clear statement regarding his disapproval of the false notion that he was ever crucified on a cross. The killing of the swine is so that the “Christian belief of its lawfulness is belied.” 14 The reason for abolishing the jizyah tax (the compulsory poll-tax that non-Muslims must pay in order to live in a Muslim land) is based on the idea that when Jesus returns, the jizyah tax will no longer be accepted. The only choice that Christians will have is to accept Islam or die. As Sideeque M.A. Veliankode states in Doomsday Portents and Prophecies:

Jesus, the son of Mary will soon descend among the Muslims as a just judge… Jesus will, therefore, judge according to the law of Islam… all people will be required to embrace Islam and there will be no other alternative. 15

Even Harun Yahya, likewise affirms this belief in his book, Jesus Will Return when he says,”Jesus will remove all systems of disbelief in that period.” 16

Muslim jurists also confirm these interpretations: consider, for example, the ruling of Ahmad ibn Naqib al-Misri (d. 1368) from The Reliance of the Traveller, the classic Shafi manual of Islamic jurisprudence:

"... the time and the place for [the poll tax] is before the final descent of Jesus (upon whom be peace). After his final coming, nothing but Islam will be accepted from them, for taking the poll tax is only effective until Jesus' descent (upon him and our Prophet be peace) ..." 17


Chapter Six

 

[Tilly]

Yep. Isa is NOT Jesus. He is a Muslim extremist

Summary


Now let’s review the various defining characteristics and actions of the Muslim Jesus upon his return to the earth:



1. Jesus is said to return to the earth in the last-days near a mosque in Damascus.

2. He will arrive at a time when the Mahdi and his army will be preparing to pray.

3. He will be offered to lead the prayer by the Mahdi, but will decline in direct deference to the Mahdi who Jesus declares to be the leader of the Muslims.

4. He will then pray behind the Mahdi as a subordinate.

5. He will be a faithful Muslim

6. He will make pilgrimage to Mecca.

7. He will visit Muhammad’s grave, and salute Muhammad, whereby Muhammad will return the salute from the grave.

8. He will destroy Christianity.

9. He will repeal the jizyah tax thus causing the only option for Jews and Christians to convert to Islam or die.

10. He will establish Islamic Shari’ah (Law) throughout the entire earth.

11. He will kill the Antichrist and his followers made up largely of Jews and women.

12. He will remain on the earth for roughly forty years, during which time he will marry, have children and then die.



As we have clearly seen, the Muslim Jesus, in both his nature and actions is far different than the biblical Jesus. Rather than coming to reign as King and Messiah over all the earth from Jerusalem, Jesus instead comes to convert the world to Islam or kill those who refuse to do so. Instead of coming to save and deliver faithful Christians and Jews, he comes instead to kill and slaughter them.


Chapter Six

 

[Sunni Man]

Hmm. Not very Christ like (because Isa is NOT Jesus)

You seem to be operating on the misnomer that christian people own Jesus.

1.6 billion muslims strongly disagree with that premise. ....

 

[Tilly]

Hmm. Not very Christ like (because Isa is NOT Jesus)

You seem to be operating on the misnomer that christian people own Jesus.

1.6 billion muslims strongly disagree with that premise. ....

It wouldn't be the first time you all got it wrong. Lol.

 

[Sunni Man]

As we have clearly seen, the Muslim Jesus, in both his nature and actions is far different than the biblical Jesus. Rather than coming to reign as King and Messiah over all the earth from Jerusalem, Jesus instead comes to convert the world to Islam or kill those who refuse to do so. Instead of coming to save and deliver faithful Christians and Jews, he comes instead to kill and slaughter them.

Quite the anti-muslim hate site you found Tilly. ...... ...

 

[Tilly]

As we have clearly seen, the Muslim Jesus, in both his nature and actions is far different than the biblical Jesus. Rather than coming to reign as King and Messiah over all the earth from Jerusalem, Jesus instead comes to convert the world to Islam or kill those who refuse to do so. Instead of coming to save and deliver faithful Christians and Jews, he comes instead to kill and slaughter them.

Quite the anti-muslim hate site you found Tilly. ...... ...

Sure, I know, TRUTH is hate.
I also know how Muslims love to hoodwink Christians over their 'shared' love of Jesus, when the truth is Isa couldn't be further removed from Jesus. Nice try though.

 

[aris2chat]

Jesus is relegated to mere prophet status in Islam. However, Isa does not really resemble Jesus at all. Just another example of plagiarism on the part of Islam.

Incorrect

Jesus (Isa) in the Quran is said to have been born to the virgin Mary, was a prophet of God, performed healing miracles, and raised dead people back to life. ....

But in Islam Isa is not the son of God, therefore Isa is not Jesus.
And what of his role in the end times?

Early christians did not consider Jesus son of god, that came later after fist fights between the bishops some 300+ years after his death.
We are all sons and daughters of god creator, but we are the "the" son of god or god itself. If god is in everything and everyone then we all are part of god but not god's only begotten son. Gospels were written well after Jesus death and are more religious than factual. They also contradict each other as well as borrow elements from those that came before. Luke never even met Jesus.
Jesus was a jewish teacher and healer in the beginning.
The crucifixion is where the gospels and Islam part ways. Muslims don't believe he died on the cross.

I'm aware of all that, but to Christians, Jesus IS the son of God and to Muslims he is merely a prophet. Isa is not Jesus the Son of God.

Jesus is the son of god because bishops in the 4th century decided by a thin margin to call him such.

It was a matter of opinion that people have been taught today is fact by their church leaders. Most people in the world do not share that opinion. Several early denominations through the 14th century did not believe Jesus was either god or son of god. Even today some 3-5% of self identified christians do not believe Jesus is god, just a prophet, teacher, healer and anointed messiah.

A belief in Jesus' divinity is a matter of faith not fact.

 

[Sunni Man]

Sure, I know, TRUTH is hate.
I also know how Muslims love to hoodwink Christians over their 'shared' love of Jesus, when the truth is Isa couldn't be further removed from Jesus. Nice try though.

Seriously, that hate site rant you posted was packed full of all kinds of misinformation and outright lies.

Next time be honest, and at least quote from a reputable scholarly site. ....

 

[Tilly]

Sure, I know, TRUTH is hate.
I also know how Muslims love to hoodwink Christians over their 'shared' love of Jesus, when the truth is Isa couldn't be further removed from Jesus. Nice try though.

Seriously, that hate site rant you posted was packed full of all kinds of misinformation and outright lies.

Next time be honest, and at least quote from a reputable scholarly site. ....

Then address the lies and misinformation with proof.

 

[aris2chat]

Sure, I know, TRUTH is hate.
I also know how Muslims love to hoodwink Christians over their 'shared' love of Jesus, when the truth is Isa couldn't be further removed from Jesus. Nice try though.

Seriously, that hate site rant you posted was packed full of all kinds of misinformation and outright lies.

Next time be honest, and at least quote from a reputable scholarly site. ....

Then address the lies and misinformation with proof.

Your faith is only proof to you regarding Jesus. It cannot be scientifically proven that god exist. Religion was designed to control people and explain what was not know at the time. One god, may gods, animal gods, female god(s), gods/strangers from the cosmos that visited earth..... every group has their own ideas that have changed and evolved through history. There was never one constant.

Belief in god(s) is a faith not a fact.

 

[hobelim]

Jesus is the son of God.

Son of God was a title, given to the Messiah, the awaited prophet spoken of by Moses in deuteronomy 18:18, a relational metaphor indicating a closeness to God and rank above that of an ordinary prophet or servant of God....but still just a man.

A servant does not know what his master is about, and all that...

 

[Tilly]

Hmm. Not very Christ like (because Isa is NOT Jesus)

You seem to be operating on the misnomer that christian people own Jesus.

1.6 billion muslims strongly disagree with that premise. ....

Islam has attempted to appropriate and pervert Jesus Christ (just as they have done with many Christian and Jewish biblical figures) in an attempt to claim them for their own - to claim them as Muslims, and to claim Christian and Jewish history as Islamic history.

Fortunately, you have distorted them to such an absurd degree (in order to make them more like the warmongering mohammed) that very few people - on even a cursory glance at Isa - fall for the ruse

That your refer to Christians who discuss this issue (using your own texts) as 'haters' doesn't wash either. It is reminiscent of the 'behead those who say Islam is not the religion of peace' beloved by Islamists to silence people. Quite transparent. Lol.

More 'hate' for you to read:

Isa, the Muslim Jesus

....‘Isa (Jesus) of the Qur’an is a product of fable, imagination and ignorance. When Muslims venerate this ‘Isa, they have someone different in mind from the Yeshua or Jesus of the Bible and of history. The ‘Isa of the Qur’an is based on no recognized form of historical evidence, but on fables current in seventh century Arabia.

For most faithful Muslims ‘Isa is the only Jesus they know. But if one accepts this Muslim ‘Jesus’, then one also accepts the Qur’an: one accepts Islam. Belief in this ‘Isa is won at the cost of the libel that Jews and Christians have corrupted their scriptures, a charge that is without historical support. Belief in this ‘Isa implies that much of Christian and Jewish history is in fact Islamic history.

The Jesus of the gospels is the base upon which Christianity developed. By Islamicizing him, and making of him a Muslim prophet who preached the Qur’an, Islam destroys Christianity and takes over all its history. It does the same to Judaism.

In the end times as described by Muhammad, ‘Isa becomes a warrior who will return with his sword and lance. He will destroy the Christian religion and make Islam the only religion in all the world. Finally at the last judgement he will condemn Christians to hell for believing in the crucifixion and the incarnation.

This final act of the Muslim ‘Isa reflects Islam’s apologetic strategy in relation to Christianity, which is to deny the Yeshua of history, and replace him with a facsimile of Muhammad, so that nothing remains but Islam.

"The Muslim supersessionist current claims that the whole biblical history of Israel and Christianity is Islamic history, that all the Prophets, Kings of Israel and Judea, and Jesus were Muslims. That the People of the Book should dare to challenge this statement is intolerable arrogance for an Islamic theologian. Jews and Christians are thus deprived of their Holy Scriptures and of their salvific value."

— Bat Ye’or in Islam and Dhimmitude: where civilizations collide, p.370.

The Muslim Jesus, known as ‘Isa

Isa is not Jesus, and Jesus was, and is not, a Muslim.

 

[Tilly]

Isa - still NOT Jesus.

Jesus’ name was never ‘Isa

Jesus’ mother tongue was Aramaic. In his own lifetime he was called Yeshua in Aramaic, and Jesu in Greek. This is like calling the same person John when speaking English and Jean when speaking French: Jesu, pronounced "Yesoo", is the Greek form of Aramaic Yeshua. (The final -s in Jesu-s is a Greek grammatical ending.) Yeshua is itself a form of Hebrew Yehoshua’, which means ‘the Lord is salvation’....

Yeshua of Nazareth was never called ‘Isa, the name the Qur’an gives to him. Arab-speaking Christians refer to Jesus as Yasou’ (from Yeshua) not ‘Isa.

The Muslim Jesus, known as ‘Isa

 

[Tilly]

More islamic errors re Jesus:

Jesus did not receive a ‘book’

According to the Qur’an, the ‘book’ revealed to ‘Isa was the Injil. The word Injil is a corrupted form of the Greek euanggelion ‘good news’ or gospel. What was this euanggelion? This was just how Jesus referred to his message: as good news. The expression euanggelion did not refer to a fixed revealed text, and there is absolutely no evidence that Jesus received a ‘book’ of revelation from God.

The Muslim Jesus, known as ‘Isa

 

[aris2chat]

Hmm. Not very Christ like (because Isa is NOT Jesus)

You seem to be operating on the misnomer that christian people own Jesus.

1.6 billion muslims strongly disagree with that premise. ....

Islam has attempted to appropriate and pervert Jesus Christ (just as they have done with many Christian and Jewish biblical figures) in an attempt to claim them for their own - to claim them as Muslims.

Fortunately, you have distorted them to such an absurd degree (in order to make them more like the warmongering mohammed) that very few people - on even a cursory glance at Isa - fall for the ruse

That your refer to Christians who discuss this issue (using your own texts) as 'haters' doesn't wash either. It is reminiscent of the 'behead those who say Islam is not the religion of peace' beloved by Islamists to silence people. Quite transparent. Lol.

More 'hate' for you to read:

Isa, the Muslim Jesus

....‘Isa (Jesus) of the Qur’an is a product of fable, imagination and ignorance. When Muslims venerate this ‘Isa, they have someone different in mind from the Yeshua or Jesus of the Bible and of history. The ‘Isa of the Qur’an is based on no recognized form of historical evidence, but on fables current in seventh century Arabia.

For most faithful Muslims ‘Isa is the only Jesus they know. But if one accepts this Muslim ‘Jesus’, then one also accepts the Qur’an: one accepts Islam. Belief in this ‘Isa is won at the cost of the libel that Jews and Christians have corrupted their scriptures, a charge that is without historical support. Belief in this ‘Isa implies that much of Christian and Jewish history is in fact Islamic history.

The Jesus of the gospels is the base upon which Christianity developed. By Islamicizing him, and making of him a Muslim prophet who preached the Qur’an, Islam destroys Christianity and takes over all its history. It does the same to Judaism.

In the end times as described by Muhammad, ‘Isa becomes a warrior who will return with his sword and lance. He will destroy the Christian religion and make Islam the only religion in all the world. Finally at the last judgement he will condemn Christians to hell for believing in the crucifixion and the incarnation.

This final act of the Muslim ‘Isa reflects Islam’s apologetic strategy in relation to Christianity, which is to deny the Yeshua of history, and replace him with a facsimile of Muhammad, so that nothing remains but Islam.

"The Muslim supersessionist current claims that the whole biblical history of Israel and Christianity is Islamic history, that all the Prophets, Kings of Israel and Judea, and Jesus were Muslims. That the People of the Book should dare to challenge this statement is intolerable arrogance for an Islamic theologian. Jews and Christians are thus deprived of their Holy Scriptures and of their salvific value."

— Bat Ye’or in Islam and Dhimmitude: where civilizations collide, p.370.

The Muslim Jesus, known as ‘Isa

Isa is not Jesus, and Jesus was, and is not, a Muslim.

Not a perversion of jesus, just a different perspective. For muslims there is but one god, not three, or even two............thought for a time it was believed Allah had three daughters or lesser goddesses. Left overs from the 360 or so gods that used to live in Mecca.