If Muslims believe in the Koran, they must become Christian

[aris2chat]

The appropriation, gross distortions and blatant anachronistic revisionism of Christian and Jewish history are anything but 'nuanced', Sunni Man.

But, had mohammed not indulged , there would be no Islam to speak of and mohammed would have remained a brutal desert bandit.
Pity he didn't have any originality instead of plagiarising from the bible. But then what's a caravan robber to do? Pity he couldn't read too, then maybe he wouldn't have made so many errors.
Errors like this one:

...Mariam the mother of ‘Isa is called a sister of Aaron, and also the daughter of Aaron’s father ‘Imran (Hebr. Amram). Clearly Muhammad has confused Mary (Hebr. Miriam) with Miriam of the Exodus. The two lived more than a thousand years apart!...

The Muslim Jesus, known as ‘Isa

\


Tilly------I was no scholar of religion when I read the Koran. The book fell into my
hands from a bunch of cartons of discards dumped as a donation at the hospital
in which I worked. The hospital would send a thank you note and burn them----
the books were ---FREEBIES for me-----no one else wanted them (don't tell
anyone)--- PICTHAL I had read the Bhagavad Gita Ramayana, OT ,
NT, POWER of Positive thinking, LOLITA , etc etc----so why not this
thing called KORAN? I was a naïve kid---no religious education except
random UNDIRECTED casual reading. I found the Koran SUCH A MESS
of confused misrepresentations of bible stories that I CONCLUDED that
my copy was a MISPRINT <<<< true story

The language in the quran does not translate word for word well unless you understand the form of the language at the time. The way they spoke and wrote the language, not quite the same thing.

Think of a rapper or Caribbean/Jamaican islander trying to read and quote Chaucer or Beowulf ..............."what the H--- are they talking about"

Arabs at the time would have understood either the written or the spoken, if no both at the time. Technically, the quran is not supposed to be read or recited in any language but the western quraysh dialect.
Arabic, like latin for catholics till last century, is the language of Islam.

The bible was for a millennia only in greek or latin, and most people could not read at all.

\

yes------I understand that. I tried to read Chaucer---HOPELESS and I understand that MOST
muslims are completely unable to read the Koran-----they depend on their "scholars"

There are now legal translations in some 114 languages for muslims elsewhere to read select verses and more than 45 for the complete quran, but prayers are still in arabic.

I grew up with syriac, french and latin services when I went to church with my father or grandmother. Even greek and armenian when we were invited to wedding or funerals.

Every group has their own language

gee-----the Koran is now "officially" translated into 114 languages-----I AM OLD----back in
my youth muslims I knew never read the Koran------even Pakistanis because there was
no translation into URDU-------I gave my English Pickthall to a Pakistani surgeon-----I would
be EXTREMELY surprised if he ever READ IT.

select verse.

45 or 47 languages for the whole quran are now "officially" in use.

There are many muslims today that do not read the quran, but for those who do read in other languages, there are authorized versions.

Urdu....


Dr. Hamid Hasan Bilgarami, Fayuz ul Quraan 2 Vols.
Maulana Abdul Kareem Pareekh, India.
Maulana Aashiq Illahi Bulandshaheri.
Maulana Abu Haq Haqani Dehlvi.
Shah Rafi al-Din.
Shah 'Abd al-Qadir.
Fatheh Mohammad Khan.
Maulana Muhammad Ali (India).
Maulana Maqbool Ahmed Dhelwi (Known as Maqbool).
Allama Azad Subhani (1897–1964) wrote Tafsir e Rabbani Mukaddama


Urdu Tafheem-ul-Quran PDF - Quranurdu.com

 

[irosie91]

who is samiri? what is his Hebrew name?

Samiri (Islamic figure) - Wikipedia

Oh----I got it-----samiri is the muslim stand in for the beset Aharon. The issue is
PERFECTION------the Koran is so lacking in dimension that its "heroes" must
be depicted as consistently perfect no matter what history says REALLY happened.
It is a retrospective "FIX-UP"|. By the same reasoning the thief, rapist murdering
pig is FIXED up by claiming "he was attacked first"

 

[aris2chat]

When appropriation goes wrong:..The Qur’an has a Samaritan making the golden calf, which was worshipped by the Israelites in the wilderness (Ta Ha 20:85) during the Exodus. In fact it was Aaron (Exodus 34:1-6). The Samaritans did not exist until several centuries later. They were descendants of the northern Israelites centuries after the Exodus....

Another failure from the anti-muslim hate site that you frequent Tilly. ....

The Quran verse you quote to back up your nonsense claim, refers to a man who's name is "Samiri.....not the Samaritan people. ....

Samiri (Islamic figure) - Wikipedia

who is samiri? what is his Hebrew name?

 

[irosie91]

When appropriation goes wrong:..The Qur’an has a Samaritan making the golden calf, which was worshipped by the Israelites in the wilderness (Ta Ha 20:85) during the Exodus. In fact it was Aaron (Exodus 34:1-6). The Samaritans did not exist until several centuries later. They were descendants of the northern Israelites centuries after the Exodus....

Another failure from the anti-muslim hate site that you frequent Tilly. ....

The Quran verse you quote to back up your nonsense claim, refers to a man who's name is "Samiri.....not the Samaritan people. ....

Samiri (Islamic figure) - Wikipedia

who is samiri? what is his Hebrew name?

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

 

[aris2chat]

When appropriation goes wrong:..The Qur’an has a Samaritan making the golden calf, which was worshipped by the Israelites in the wilderness (Ta Ha 20:85) during the Exodus. In fact it was Aaron (Exodus 34:1-6). The Samaritans did not exist until several centuries later. They were descendants of the northern Israelites centuries after the Exodus....

Another failure from the anti-muslim hate site that you frequent Tilly. ....

The Quran verse you quote to back up your nonsense claim, refers to a man who's name is "Samiri.....not the Samaritan people. ....

Samiri (Islamic figure) - Wikipedia

who is samiri? what is his Hebrew name?

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

Consult other experts in ancient Egyptian and Hebrew if you honestly believe that. Try your local university. Just trying to educate you since you seemed to misunderstood what you read elsewhere.

If you want to find excuses to be angry with Islam, or radical interpretations of it, do so for the right reason not mistakes and lies.

 

[Sunni Man]

Oh----I got it-----samiri is the muslim stand in for the beset Aharon. The issue is
PERFECTION------the Koran is so lacking in dimension that its "heroes" mustbe depicted as consistently perfect no matter what history says REALLY happened.It is a retrospective "FIX-UP"|. By the same reasoning the thief, rapist murderingpig is FIXED up by claiming "he was attacked first"

Irosie, have you ever considered debating a topic without the crazed psychotic rant routine? ....

 

[irosie91]

Oh----I got it-----samiri is the muslim stand in for the beset Aharon. The issue is
PERFECTION------the Koran is so lacking in dimension that its "heroes" mustbe depicted as consistently perfect no matter what history says REALLY happened.It is a retrospective "FIX-UP"|. By the same reasoning the thief, rapist murderingpig is FIXED up by claiming "he was attacked first"

Irosie, have you ever considered debating a topic without the crazed psychotic rant routine? ....

I always do debate without rant------I read a MYRIAD of ancient literature in about a ten year period
of my youth---for no other reason than I LIKED it. Doing so refined my taste. The greek plays are
generally sublime as is the OT as are the Illiad and Odyssey and the Ramayana and Bhagavad Gita.
The Koran has no literary value whatsoever. Muslims tell me that the POETRY is good. The Koran is
a HERO book-----like Beowulf -----not even as refined as is SUPERMAN. The Koran kinda reminds me
a little of VIKING stories------all about the GLORIFICATION OF BRUTES

 

[irosie91]

When appropriation goes wrong:..The Qur’an has a Samaritan making the golden calf, which was worshipped by the Israelites in the wilderness (Ta Ha 20:85) during the Exodus. In fact it was Aaron (Exodus 34:1-6). The Samaritans did not exist until several centuries later. They were descendants of the northern Israelites centuries after the Exodus....

Another failure from the anti-muslim hate site that you frequent Tilly. ....

The Quran verse you quote to back up your nonsense claim, refers to a man who's name is "Samiri.....not the Samaritan people. ....

Samiri (Islamic figure) - Wikipedia

who is samiri? what is his Hebrew name?

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

Consult other experts in ancient Egyptian and Hebrew if you honestly believe that. Try your local university. Just trying to educate you since you seemed to misunderstood what you read elsewhere.

If you want to find excuses to be angry with Islam, or radical interpretations of it, do so for the right reason not mistakes and lies.

if I believe what? what is "a radical interpretation" of the novel character SAMIRI?-------I am fully
aware of the issue of "non-Hebrews" who, it is said, came along with the "Hebrews" out of
Egypt------and the use of EGYPTIAN NAMES.--------I have niece by marriage named ASNATH and
-----I have a Persian name. I have heard the name SAMIR-------if you want to say it is
EGYPTIAN --fine with me. No matter what -------the fact is that the interpreters of the
Koran and the KORAN ITSELF------manage to consistently white wash base brutality------and
insist on the MUSLIM PERFECT HERO-------brutal though he may be-----that is why MARY
is so popular-------she is a perfect muslimah-----intact hymen forever. It is probably blasphemy
to say she had other kids. ... For me-------Aharon forced to pacify the people by making the
calf--------is REAL it makes the book just as a possibly unfaithful SITA------makes the
RAMAYANA

 

[aris2chat]

Another failure from the anti-muslim hate site that you frequent Tilly. ....

The Quran verse you quote to back up your nonsense claim, refers to a man who's name is "Samiri.....not the Samaritan people. ....

Samiri (Islamic figure) - Wikipedia

who is samiri? what is his Hebrew name?

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

Consult other experts in ancient Egyptian and Hebrew if you honestly believe that. Try your local university. Just trying to educate you since you seemed to misunderstood what you read elsewhere.

If you want to find excuses to be angry with Islam, or radical interpretations of it, do so for the right reason not mistakes and lies.

if I believe what? what is "a radical interpretation" of the novel character SAMIRI?-------I am fully
aware of the issue of "non-Hebrews" who, it is said, came along with the "Hebrews" out of
Egypt------and the use of EGYPTIAN NAMES.--------I have niece by marriage named ASNATH and
-----I have a Persian name. I have heard the name SAMIR-------if you want to say it is
EGYPTIAN --fine with me. No matter what -------the fact is that the interpreters of the
Koran and the KORAN ITSELF------manage to consistently white wash base brutality------and
insist on the MUSLIM PERFECT HERO-------brutal though he may be-----that is why MARY
is so popular-------she is a perfect muslimah-----intact hymen forever. It is probably blasphemy
to say she had other kids. ... For me-------Aharon forced to pacify the people by making the
calf--------is REAL it makes the book just as a possibly unfaithful SITA------makes the
RAMAYANA

It is totally illogical to think she remained a virgin and did not have other children during her marriage.
James (the younger, lesser, just) is supposed to have been younger than Jesus and died in 69 CE. He was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple and stoned/beaten to death.

 

[irosie91]

who is samiri? what is his Hebrew name?

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

Consult other experts in ancient Egyptian and Hebrew if you honestly believe that. Try your local university. Just trying to educate you since you seemed to misunderstood what you read elsewhere.

If you want to find excuses to be angry with Islam, or radical interpretations of it, do so for the right reason not mistakes and lies.

if I believe what? what is "a radical interpretation" of the novel character SAMIRI?-------I am fully
aware of the issue of "non-Hebrews" who, it is said, came along with the "Hebrews" out of
Egypt------and the use of EGYPTIAN NAMES.--------I have niece by marriage named ASNATH and
-----I have a Persian name. I have heard the name SAMIR-------if you want to say it is
EGYPTIAN --fine with me. No matter what -------the fact is that the interpreters of the
Koran and the KORAN ITSELF------manage to consistently white wash base brutality------and
insist on the MUSLIM PERFECT HERO-------brutal though he may be-----that is why MARY
is so popular-------she is a perfect muslimah-----intact hymen forever. It is probably blasphemy
to say she had other kids. ... For me-------Aharon forced to pacify the people by making the
calf--------is REAL it makes the book just as a possibly unfaithful SITA------makes the
RAMAYANA

It is totally illogical to think she remained a virgin and did not have other children during her marriage.
James (the younger, lesser, just) is supposed to have been younger than Jesus and died in 69 CE. He was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple and stoned/beaten to death.

yy

who is samiri? what is his Hebrew name?

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

Consult other experts in ancient Egyptian and Hebrew if you honestly believe that. Try your local university. Just trying to educate you since you seemed to misunderstood what you read elsewhere.

If you want to find excuses to be angry with Islam, or radical interpretations of it, do so for the right reason not mistakes and lies.

if I believe what? what is "a radical interpretation" of the novel character SAMIRI?-------I am fully
aware of the issue of "non-Hebrews" who, it is said, came along with the "Hebrews" out of
Egypt------and the use of EGYPTIAN NAMES.--------I have niece by marriage named ASNATH and
-----I have a Persian name. I have heard the name SAMIR-------if you want to say it is
EGYPTIAN --fine with me. No matter what -------the fact is that the interpreters of the
Koran and the KORAN ITSELF------manage to consistently white wash base brutality------and
insist on the MUSLIM PERFECT HERO-------brutal though he may be-----that is why MARY
is so popular-------she is a perfect muslimah-----intact hymen forever. It is probably blasphemy
to say she had other kids. ... For me-------Aharon forced to pacify the people by making the
calf--------is REAL it makes the book just as a possibly unfaithful SITA------makes the
RAMAYANA

It is totally illogical to think she remained a virgin and did not have other children during her marriage.
James (the younger, lesser, just) is supposed to have been younger than Jesus and died in 69 CE. He was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple and stoned/beaten to death.

whatever were the circmstances of the death of the putative brother----I have it informally from
muslims that MARY is a forever virgin. I do not know if james comes up in the koran

 

[aris2chat]

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

Consult other experts in ancient Egyptian and Hebrew if you honestly believe that. Try your local university. Just trying to educate you since you seemed to misunderstood what you read elsewhere.

If you want to find excuses to be angry with Islam, or radical interpretations of it, do so for the right reason not mistakes and lies.

if I believe what? what is "a radical interpretation" of the novel character SAMIRI?-------I am fully
aware of the issue of "non-Hebrews" who, it is said, came along with the "Hebrews" out of
Egypt------and the use of EGYPTIAN NAMES.--------I have niece by marriage named ASNATH and
-----I have a Persian name. I have heard the name SAMIR-------if you want to say it is
EGYPTIAN --fine with me. No matter what -------the fact is that the interpreters of the
Koran and the KORAN ITSELF------manage to consistently white wash base brutality------and
insist on the MUSLIM PERFECT HERO-------brutal though he may be-----that is why MARY
is so popular-------she is a perfect muslimah-----intact hymen forever. It is probably blasphemy
to say she had other kids. ... For me-------Aharon forced to pacify the people by making the
calf--------is REAL it makes the book just as a possibly unfaithful SITA------makes the
RAMAYANA

It is totally illogical to think she remained a virgin and did not have other children during her marriage.
James (the younger, lesser, just) is supposed to have been younger than Jesus and died in 69 CE. He was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple and stoned/beaten to death.

yy

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

Consult other experts in ancient Egyptian and Hebrew if you honestly believe that. Try your local university. Just trying to educate you since you seemed to misunderstood what you read elsewhere.

If you want to find excuses to be angry with Islam, or radical interpretations of it, do so for the right reason not mistakes and lies.

if I believe what? what is "a radical interpretation" of the novel character SAMIRI?-------I am fully
aware of the issue of "non-Hebrews" who, it is said, came along with the "Hebrews" out of
Egypt------and the use of EGYPTIAN NAMES.--------I have niece by marriage named ASNATH and
-----I have a Persian name. I have heard the name SAMIR-------if you want to say it is
EGYPTIAN --fine with me. No matter what -------the fact is that the interpreters of the
Koran and the KORAN ITSELF------manage to consistently white wash base brutality------and
insist on the MUSLIM PERFECT HERO-------brutal though he may be-----that is why MARY
is so popular-------she is a perfect muslimah-----intact hymen forever. It is probably blasphemy
to say she had other kids. ... For me-------Aharon forced to pacify the people by making the
calf--------is REAL it makes the book just as a possibly unfaithful SITA------makes the
RAMAYANA

It is totally illogical to think she remained a virgin and did not have other children during her marriage.
James (the younger, lesser, just) is supposed to have been younger than Jesus and died in 69 CE. He was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple and stoned/beaten to death.

whatever were the circmstances of the death of the putative brother----I have it informally from
muslims that MARY is a forever virgin. I do not know if james comes up in the koran

>>It should be noted here that while actively guarding one’s private part from unlawful sexual relations is understood, how does one actively preserve their private part from lawful sexual relations? Since betrothal eventually implies consummation, the only way to avoid that would be to not get betrothed in the first place.<<

>>Quran says that the Virgin Mary remained pure while Allah created Jesus inside her womb.<<

>>Despite the fact that the authentic primary sources of Islam (the Qur’an and hadeeth) do not mention the existence of Joseph the Carpenter or any other husband or children ascribed to Maryam, Joseph’s mention does come up in some exegetical [tafsir] works on the Quran [al-Tha’labi, al-Tabari, and others].

It becomes clear that these reports were taken from people relating Biblical accounts that they had heard through Christians who lived alongside them.<<

 

[Tilly]

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

Consult other experts in ancient Egyptian and Hebrew if you honestly believe that. Try your local university. Just trying to educate you since you seemed to misunderstood what you read elsewhere.

If you want to find excuses to be angry with Islam, or radical interpretations of it, do so for the right reason not mistakes and lies.

if I believe what? what is "a radical interpretation" of the novel character SAMIRI?-------I am fully
aware of the issue of "non-Hebrews" who, it is said, came along with the "Hebrews" out of
Egypt------and the use of EGYPTIAN NAMES.--------I have niece by marriage named ASNATH and
-----I have a Persian name. I have heard the name SAMIR-------if you want to say it is
EGYPTIAN --fine with me. No matter what -------the fact is that the interpreters of the
Koran and the KORAN ITSELF------manage to consistently white wash base brutality------and
insist on the MUSLIM PERFECT HERO-------brutal though he may be-----that is why MARY
is so popular-------she is a perfect muslimah-----intact hymen forever. It is probably blasphemy
to say she had other kids. ... For me-------Aharon forced to pacify the people by making the
calf--------is REAL it makes the book just as a possibly unfaithful SITA------makes the
RAMAYANA

It is totally illogical to think she remained a virgin and did not have other children during her marriage.
James (the younger, lesser, just) is supposed to have been younger than Jesus and died in 69 CE. He was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple and stoned/beaten to death.

yy

View attachment 132808

still not impressed- it's a fix-up

Consult other experts in ancient Egyptian and Hebrew if you honestly believe that. Try your local university. Just trying to educate you since you seemed to misunderstood what you read elsewhere.

If you want to find excuses to be angry with Islam, or radical interpretations of it, do so for the right reason not mistakes and lies.

if I believe what? what is "a radical interpretation" of the novel character SAMIRI?-------I am fully
aware of the issue of "non-Hebrews" who, it is said, came along with the "Hebrews" out of
Egypt------and the use of EGYPTIAN NAMES.--------I have niece by marriage named ASNATH and
-----I have a Persian name. I have heard the name SAMIR-------if you want to say it is
EGYPTIAN --fine with me. No matter what -------the fact is that the interpreters of the
Koran and the KORAN ITSELF------manage to consistently white wash base brutality------and
insist on the MUSLIM PERFECT HERO-------brutal though he may be-----that is why MARY
is so popular-------she is a perfect muslimah-----intact hymen forever. It is probably blasphemy
to say she had other kids. ... For me-------Aharon forced to pacify the people by making the
calf--------is REAL it makes the book just as a possibly unfaithful SITA------makes the
RAMAYANA

It is totally illogical to think she remained a virgin and did not have other children during her marriage.
James (the younger, lesser, just) is supposed to have been younger than Jesus and died in 69 CE. He was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple and stoned/beaten to death.

whatever were the circmstances of the death of the putative brother----I have it informally from
muslims that MARY is a forever virgin. I do not know if james comes up in the koran

He is briefly mentioned as a disciple, and a Muslim, of course.

 

[Sunni Man]

I have it informally from
muslims that MARY is a forever virgin.

The Quran doesn't address the issue. ...

 

[irosie91]

I googled-----and regret it-----guess who muhummad is going to "marry"-----when
he magically reappears--------THE VIRGIN MARY (fret not------its only an "opinion"

 

[irosie91]

I have it informally from
muslims that MARY is a forever virgin.

The Quran doesn't address the issue. ...

what issue? the eternal virginity of Mary?

 

[aris2chat]

I have it informally from
muslims that MARY is a forever virgin.

The Quran doesn't address the issue. ...

too many errors and misinterpretation of what is and is not in the quran or even hadith.

........even by those who claim to have read the quran

What is not in the quran is in the gospels/injil which is also considered holy text.

Not everything was relevant or explained in detail in the quran. It was not all necessary to Islam.

 

[aris2chat]

I have it informally from
muslims that MARY is a forever virgin.

The Quran doesn't address the issue. ...

what issue? the eternal virginity of Mary?

She was a virgin while carrying Jesus/Isa. She did not behave improperly. Sex within marriage not improper.

 

[aris2chat]

When appropriation goes wrong:

..The Qur’an has a Samaritan making the golden calf, which was worshipped by the Israelites in the wilderness (Ta Ha 20:85) during the Exodus. In fact it was Aaron (Exodus 34:1-6). The Samaritans did not exist until several centuries later. They were descendants of the northern Israelites centuries after the Exodus....

The Muslim Jesus, known as ‘Isa

the "samaritan" of the golden calf came from, 14 CE persian poetry

Deewan-e-Hafiz (Farsi with Urdu translation) : Khwaja Muhammad Hafiz Shirazi : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[aris2chat]

Jesus is relegated to mere prophet status in Islam. However, Isa does not really resemble Jesus at all. Just another example of plagiarism on the part of Islam.

Incorrect

Jesus (Isa) in the Quran is said to have been born to the virgin Mary, was a prophet of God, performed healing miracles, and raised dead people back to life. ....

But in Islam Isa is not the son of God, therefore Isa is not Jesus.
And what of his role in the end times?

Early christians did not consider Jesus son of god, that came later after fist fights between the bishops some 300+ years after his death.
We are all sons and daughters of god creator, but we are the "the" son of god or god itself. If god is in everything and everyone then we all are part of god but not god's only begotten son. Gospels were written well after Jesus death and are more religious than factual. They also contradict each other as well as borrow elements from those that came before. Luke never even met Jesus.
Jesus was a jewish teacher and healer in the beginning.
The crucifixion is where the gospels and Islam part ways. Muslims don't believe he died on the cross.

When bishops brawled: An interview with Philip Jenkins

 

[Sunni Man]

JakeStarkey

Too bad. According to the Koran, is a little prophet while Jesus is the Big Prophet, the Word of God, the Spirit of God, who spoke at age 2.

Here ya go Jake......this verse from the Quran should settle the issue. ...

"O People of the Book (the Jews and the Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against God, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, is only a messenger of God and His Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit from Him; believe therefore in God and His messengers, and say not, ‘Three’. Desist, it is better for you; Indeed God is only one diety; far be it from His glory that He should have a son, To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and God is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs." (Quran 4:171)