If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[Hutch Starskey]

So, if you're poor, you shouldn't get healthcare.

Welcome to the "American Fuck you".

That's the Anerican Way. When my great-grandparents came here in 1900, they didn't get anything. My great-grandfather rebuilt a doctor's barn to pay for his services when my great-grandmother got pregnant in 1904. The Government didnt give them a damn thing.

You go pay your doctor with chickens and a basket of vegetables and see how that works out.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Wow! That's smart! Say, my wife's first husband developed leukemia at age 46. he fought it for 17 months before he died, and the hospital bill alone came to $1.4 million. If that happens to you, are you going to put it on tour Discover card?

I have the cure for cancer in my basement - 1 round of .45 ACP+P 230 grain JHP. It's inserted under the chin in an upward direction with a slight rearward cant at 950 fps+

Your basement?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Provide a public option and we can all see what is the most efficient public or private.

You fuckers keep your public option, leave the rest of us out of it. Millions of Americans want nothing to do with the collective

Then don't choose it. If you are right it will die. So no reason to be afraid of it.

That's what I'm saying healthcare should be a personal issue, everyone should pay for their own shit.

It was called the individual mandate.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Provide a public option and we can all see what is the most efficient public or private.

That's the best 'fix' for Obamacare if we're going to stay in that approach to healthcare.

It's likely a great way to curb runaway costs right away. I'm sure all the free market people here won't be against a public option, as they are sure the free market is the best, so a public option shouldn't be a threat to their better system. If the public option sucks people will avoid it. Let the best system win.

Obamacare would have been fine if it was an "opt in"... the only people in it would've been the people that wanted to be in it.

Which is it?
Everyone pays or opt in?

That's what I'm saying healthcare should be a personal issue, everyone should pay for their own shit.

Obamacare would have been fine if it was an "opt in"... the only people in it would've been the people that wanted to be in it.

 

[Anathema]

You go pay your doctor with chickens and a basket of vegetables and see how that works out.

Any doctor of mine will get paid in chickens and veggies before they get paid by the Government. In fact, my Livibg Will includes a clause refusing any treatment that would hsve to be paid fir by the Government.

 

[Anathema]

Your basement?

No. My 1911 is a competition gun so it lives in the safe downstairs instead of with my carry guns.

 

[WheelieAddict]

Provide a public option and we can all see what is the most efficient public or private.

You fuckers keep your public option, leave the rest of us out of it. Millions of Americans want nothing to do with the collective

Then don't choose it. If you are right it will die. So no reason to be afraid of it.

That's what I'm saying healthcare should be a personal issue, everyone should pay for their own shit.

It was called the individual mandate.

I need to go mow three lawns. Good luck bud. A token of my appreciation:

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Who should go without?

The people that do not want it, and should not be paying for other people....
Fucking Control freaks...

If you don't want it, then never seek care. Simple.

Health insurance/single payer are not healthcare… Dipshit
Lol

No shit. They're a means of paying for your healthcare.

 

[grainbely]

Who should go without?

People on social programs. Every time this subject comes up in the media, their first concern is what about the poor people? Well, what about the working people is my question?

Working people are the ones who are paying for the non-working, and some of us working people don't have coverage ourselves. In the meantime, the poor are popping out kids like a popcorn machine and the rest of us have to support them including their medical.

Poor and working are not mutually exclusive. The average America salary is only a little above the poverty line. It's really low. That means there are a ton of people that are working poor who work hard with what they have and their circumstance. The idea that all poor are jobless takers is a falsity planted in your brain via propaganda by your shitty news sites, politicians, and their donors. Fix it.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

What you dopes fail to realize is that you already pay for those who can't with higher costs and premiums. The most inefficient way possible to do it.

That's only because the liberal shit Reagan forced providers to service useless sacks of crap. Fix that and stop covering the scum and premiums will go down.

Yep, just throw them in a dump truck and take them to the current murder trench.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Who decides?
I was not well off as a young man as most are not. Luckily, I never needed to use healthcare in any real way. The ability to pay at any given time should not be the deciding factor when prioritizing care. The goal rather, should be balancing those in need with those who are not.

Very simply, the people giving the care decide. If they're willing to work for free, good for you. If not, too bad.

I reset a mildly dislocated shoulder of mine twice in one year about 15 years ago, because I didn't have a medical plan or money to cover the doctor's visit. That's life.

You have no more Right to get the Government to steal money from me to pay for your medical needs thsn I would have to get the Government to steal from you to cover mine. The fact thst you support exactly that tells me some unpleasant things about your character.

What you dopes fail to realize is that you already pay for those who can't with higher costs and premiums. The most inefficient way possible to do it.

What you dupes don't realize is people steal from stores. The most efficient way to stop that is to just let people take what they want and the government will pay for it.

That's just the thing, dope. The govt isn't paying for it. Policy holders are.

 

[Anathema]

Yep, just throw them in a dump truck and take them to the current murder trench.

I've got a stillborn uncle who was buried in a mass child grave in CT, circa 1941.

 

[dblack]

Who should go without?

False dilemma

Yep. It's like saying "If socialism is a bad idea, who should be killed?"

Who should go without?

Who should decide?

 

[westwall]

Show us in the US where they can't get care. Do it now.

The issue isn't getting care. Its the cost of care that's the problem. If people have to sell their homes to pay for medical bills then that shows its a problem with our system. We pay taxes. The government should use those taxes to give us health coverage instead of spending it on rich people tax cuts and military spending.

The second you get government involved you get waste. Want to lower the cost of insurance? Allow cross state competition currently illegal thanks to regulations the insurance company's asked for so they could build their monopolies. Also, limit the outrageous money payed out for malpractice and initiate "loser pays" laws that will eliminate frivolous lawsuits that harm all of us. A good friend of mine is a surgeon who has never had a complaint. He is still forced to pay 250,000 a year for malpractice insurance. That's absurd.

Other countries have had universal healthcare for 40+ years and they are still functioning. Insurance companies are the problem. Even if thr rates are lower, insurance companies like to give the run around on what they'll pay for. Insurance companies are the biggest thieves around.

I'm sorry but I'll trust government run universal healthcare over insurance companies any day.

And you would be a fool. Like I said. I dare you to actually review the quality of care you get in those country's. You will be sorely surprised. There's a huge gulf between what they claim, and what they deliver. Below is the UK's NHS and the disaster it has become. I dare you to look at the problems that the NHS has ALWAYS had. and then come back and tell us how you would rather have the government provide you with care like the million patients PER WEEK! who can't get an appointment. And that in a country that is less than one third our population.


One million patients a week cannot get a GP appointment, statistics show

One million patients a week cannot get appointments with GPs, amid the longest waiting times on record, new figures show.

Doctors said they were working “flat out” but under “unsustainable” pressure, leaving “worrying” numbers of patients without any help.

The NHS figures show the number waiting at least a week to see their GP has risen by 56 per cent in five years, with one in five now waiting this long.

The pressures left 11.3 per cent of patients unable to get an appointment at all - a 27 per cent rise since 2012. This amounts to around 47 million occasions on which patients attempted but failed to secure help from their GP, forcing them to give up, try again later or turn to Accident & Emergency departments.
One million patients a week cannot get a GP appointment, statistics show


Jeremy Hunt: NHS problems completely unacceptable

I've actually been to England before. Yes there is a waiting list but people are generally happy with it. There are private hospitals available if people want that option, but most British people are satisfied with NHS. NHS has been having problems in recent years because of the Tory government. They've been cutting NHS budgets.

No system is perfect but Brits still want to keep NHS around. Brits don't have to stress about medical cost.

No, you are flat assed wrong. Take a look for an hour about all the problems with the NHS and you will see what an unmitigated disaster it is. Your single experience in a no doubt upper echelon region of the country with corresponding NHS care is not representative of the country.

 

[2aguy]

Who should go without?

No one should go without....it is about who controls the access. Single payer here is a failure, the VA is a disaster....single payer around the world is collapsing......

Lowering healthcare costs and taking care of people with pre existing conditions does not require bureaucrats in Washington controlling the entire healthcare system......

 

[Rustic]

Millions are just like me, i have no right to "healthcare"...but i do have a right to earn my healthcare.

Not before ACA, you didn't. As a health insurance underwriter, I had a 3 inch underwriting manual, and if you had any of the condition that were in that book, all you go was an applicant rejection form letter.

insurance/single payer is not healthcare. Dip shit

I have no idea what the hell your point is, so I guess I will have to start at the top.

Before ACA, there was a 30% chance that you could buy no insurance whatsoever, due to pre-existing conditions. After ACA, you can always buy insurance if you can afford id it.

So, you are here whining because the insurance company gave you the opportunity to buy it, but they did not sell it to you for a loss.

Life just sucks, doesn't it Rustic?

Go cry on Sarah Palin's shoulder.

No, I have never purchased insurance in my life. No need to I have always paid out-of-pocket.

But the fact remains insurance/single payer is not healthcare… millions just like me do not trust insurance companies To pay shit. Because really they have no obligation too… Same way with the federal government

Wow! That's smart! Say, my wife's first husband developed leukemia at age 46. he fought it for 17 months before he died, and the hospital bill alone came to $1.4 million. If that happens to you, are you going to put it on tour Discover card?

insurance is not healthcare...

 

[Rustic]

Provide a public option and we can all see what is the most efficient public or private.

You fuckers keep your public option, leave the rest of us out of it. Millions of Americans want nothing to do with the collective

Then don't choose it. If you are right it will die. So no reason to be afraid of it.

That's what I'm saying healthcare should be a personal issue, everyone should pay for their own shit.

It was called the individual mandate.

No, insurance is not healthcare

 

[2aguy]

Who should go without?

False dilemma

Does not apply. Healthcare is either universal or it's not. If you want to make an argument as to why healthcare shouldn't be universal,

then do so.

When healthcare is mandated and the government takes over, they costs destroy the system since there is no control over it....the bureaucrats in charge have no reason to control costs, the patients have no reason to limit their care to actual need, and it collapses the system.......you end up having a health system, but little access to actual healthcare.

We need as much freedom in the system as possible....plans catered to the consumer, not to government mandates. That is what lowers the cost and makes it accessible..


What is amazing is that people who have the biggest t.v.s in their homes and the latest I-phones because of competition and the need to make customers happy, can't see how the same dynamic also would improve and increase the quality of medical care...it is the same freaking dynamic.....

Can anyone tell us what an I-phone would be like if the government controlled it's creation, production and distribution?

 

[Rustic]

Provide a public option and we can all see what is the most efficient public or private.

That's the best 'fix' for Obamacare if we're going to stay in that approach to healthcare.

It's likely a great way to curb runaway costs right away. I'm sure all the free market people here won't be against a public option, as they are sure the free market is the best, so a public option shouldn't be a threat to their better system. If the public option sucks people will avoid it. Let the best system win.

Obamacare would have been fine if it was an "opt in"... the only people in it would've been the people that wanted to be in it.

Which is it?
Everyone pays or opt in?

That's what I'm saying healthcare should be a personal issue, everyone should pay for their own shit.

Obamacare would have been fine if it was an "opt in"... the only people in it would've been the people that wanted to be in it.

Insurance is not healthcare

 

[Rustic]

Who should go without?

The people that do not want it, and should not be paying for other people....
Fucking Control freaks...

If you don't want it, then never seek care. Simple.

Health insurance/single payer are not healthcare… Dipshit
Lol

No shit. They're a means of paying for your healthcare.

Just because someone has insurance does not mean that the insurance companies gonna pay for shit…