If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[Anathema]

You have over looked the unemployed, disabled, mental people, welfare haven't you?

We were discussing two specific groups, not the whole issue.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yep, that's why federal law mandates that everyone must receive care regardless of their ability to pay.

That mandate is unconstitutional and immoral.

General welfare is in the constitution you are wrong.

Correct. Promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare.

 

[grainbely]

If I can't afford it I will not go to the doctor… That's the way it should be with all purchases

You and the others that subscribe to this should be more honest about it. Call it what it is. "If they don't have insurance and can't afford out of pocket or raise funds, deny them healthcare and let them die."

 

[eddiew]

If I can't afford it I will not go to the doctor… That's the way it should be with all purchases

So dying or in great pain is an alternative??

 

[Vandalshandle]

Who should go without?

I came across old med bills while cleaning out the attic. In 1980 My kids went to the Doctors office 11 times all three cost 35 bucks a visit. Total cost 330 bucks. No insurance. Meds cost 69 bucks. Same visit now about 1900 bucks, meds about 790 bucks. Paperwork and crooks, Insurance Companies paperwork push up prices

Yep, frivolous lawsuits support the lavish lifestyles of doctors, insurance people, lawyers and career politicians. Has anyone seen an itemized bill for a A visit to the hospital? Do you know hundred dollars for a razor blade $50 for cotton ball so on and so forth… LOL

You can thank Ronnie Reagan for that. Since under the law, which he signed, an emergency room must stabilize anyone who comes in with a bonified emergency, and if they are uninsured, the hospital must do it for free. The hospital simply adds that to your bill.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Who should go without?

I came across old med bills while cleaning out the attic. In 1980 My kids went to the Doctors office 11 times all three cost 35 bucks a visit. Total cost 330 bucks. No insurance. Meds cost 69 bucks. Same visit now about 1900 bucks, meds about 790 bucks. Paperwork and crooks, Insurance Companies paperwork push up prices

More misinformation from the under informed. In my career of rating group health plans, I rated as follows;

+last yea'rs claims
+6 months inflation to mid point of the contract
=anticipated claims (AC)

State premium tax-2%
agent commission-3%
Admin expenses-4%
profit-4%
=total load 12%

In short, we loaded about 12% of the premium on top of expected claims.

 

[Anathema]

You can thank Ronnie Reagan for that. Since under the law, which he signed, an emergency room must stabilize anyone who comes in with a bonified emergency, and if they are uninsured, the hospital must do it for free. The hospital simply adds that to your bill.

Yep.tbe biggest proof Reagan was NOT a Conservative. That policy needs to be done away with.

 

[Anathema]

So dying or in great pain is an alternative??

When you don't have money or coverage, yes. It has been for millennia.

 

[Anathema]

You and the others that subscribe to this should be more honest about it. Call it what it is. "If they don't have insurance and can't afford out of pocket or raise funds, deny them healthcare and let them die."

Sounds good to me.

 

[eddiew]

So dying or in great pain is an alternative??

When you don't have money or coverage, yes. It has been for millennia.

Ever hear of emergency rooms?

 

[basquebromance]

Wait, Lyin Ted wants to tax Warren Buffett to pay for health care?

Obamacare literally does that, and he has pushed to repeal those taxes.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

I agree about having either socialized or universal health care system......not sure of the differences between those two though. Either way, I do think everyone should have the right to quality care & RX. Of course most complain about having to pay for others........but I see it as a process. Getting more people into the workforce & off assistance means more people are paying into it thereby keeping costs down. It would also stop companies such as Mylan from price gouging. And stop a lot of the unnecessary bs insurance companies demand of a patient before approving procedures that should have been done first up. It would definitely allow DR's to treat the problem, not just the symptoms

When somebody is paying for your healthcare, they are in charge of your life.

No doubt we Americans don't live the healthiest lifestyle. We love our fast food, we love sitting behind this computer or big screen television, we like our alcohol and some love their cigarettes, but it's our choice to make.

When somebody is paying for your healthcare, they have the ability to make your life choices for you. For instance they may say you don't get coverage if you weight too much. You don't get coverage if you use tobacco or alcohol. You don't get coverage unless you have X amount of muscle mass as determined by the government which means you have to participate in some sort of exercise program. They can do a number of things to us especially if Democrats ever get leadership of this country again.

So what could America look like if government takes total control of our healthcare?

AMAGASAKI, Japan — Japan, a country not known for its overweight people, has undertaken one of the most ambitious campaigns ever by a nation to slim down its citizenry.

Summoned by the city of Amagasaki one recent morning, Minoru Nogiri, 45, a flower shop owner, found himself lining up to have his waistline measured. With no visible paunch, he seemed to run little risk of being classified as overweight, or metabo, the preferred word in Japan these days.

But because the new state-prescribed limit for male waistlines is a strict 33.5 inches, he had anxiously measured himself at home a couple of days earlier. “I’m on the border,” he said.

Under a national law that came into effect two months ago, companies and local governments must now measure the waistlines of Japanese people between the ages of 40 and 74 as part of their annual checkups. That represents more than 56 million waistlines, or about 44 percent of the entire population.

Japan, Seeking Trim Waists, Measures Millions

OK I can understand your point, but that doesn't happen in Canada or France or other coutries

 

[Darkwind]

Who should go without?

False premise.

Universal healthcare provides healthcare for all regardless of their personal ability to pay.

If that is a bad idea then you MUST support someone going without because of their inability to pay.

Who?

Not having universal health care is not the equivalent of everyone or specific groups going without.

Like I said, false premise.

You pay when others go without.

It's called freedom. Americans used to value it over just about everything else.

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

 

[dblack]

I agree about having either socialized or universal health care system......not sure of the differences between those two though. Either way, I do think everyone should have the right to quality care & RX. Of course most complain about having to pay for others........but I see it as a process. Getting more people into the workforce & off assistance means more people are paying into it thereby keeping costs down. It would also stop companies such as Mylan from price gouging. And stop a lot of the unnecessary bs insurance companies demand of a patient before approving procedures that should have been done first up. It would definitely allow DR's to treat the problem, not just the symptoms

When somebody is paying for your healthcare, they are in charge of your life.

No doubt we Americans don't live the healthiest lifestyle. We love our fast food, we love sitting behind this computer or big screen television, we like our alcohol and some love their cigarettes, but it's our choice to make.

When somebody is paying for your healthcare, they have the ability to make your life choices for you. For instance they may say you don't get coverage if you weight too much. You don't get coverage if you use tobacco or alcohol. You don't get coverage unless you have X amount of muscle mass as determined by the government which means you have to participate in some sort of exercise program. They can do a number of things to us especially if Democrats ever get leadership of this country again.

So what could America look like if government takes total control of our healthcare?

AMAGASAKI, Japan — Japan, a country not known for its overweight people, has undertaken one of the most ambitious campaigns ever by a nation to slim down its citizenry.

Summoned by the city of Amagasaki one recent morning, Minoru Nogiri, 45, a flower shop owner, found himself lining up to have his waistline measured. With no visible paunch, he seemed to run little risk of being classified as overweight, or metabo, the preferred word in Japan these days.

But because the new state-prescribed limit for male waistlines is a strict 33.5 inches, he had anxiously measured himself at home a couple of days earlier. “I’m on the border,” he said.

Under a national law that came into effect two months ago, companies and local governments must now measure the waistlines of Japanese people between the ages of 40 and 74 as part of their annual checkups. That represents more than 56 million waistlines, or about 44 percent of the entire population.

Japan, Seeking Trim Waists, Measures Millions

OK I can understand your point, but that doesn't happen in Canada or France or other coutries

It would happen in the US - count on it. We have plenty of self-righteous busybodies here that would love to have an excuse to tell their neighbors how to live. Universal health care would give them that excuse.

 

[PredFan]

And if you give them incentives to being poor, why would they try any harder in life?

What "incentive" to being poor is preferable to being rich (or at least middle class)?

Well, I get up every morning and go to work. I do that so I can live in the suburbs with a roof over my head and dinner on the table. The house next door to me? HUD. They don't work, they don't produce, they have kids that we taxpayers have to support, they are fatter than I am and I don't believe it's from fine dining at four start restaurants.

The more kids you have, the more food stamps, the larger the HUD house, the larger the welfare checks.

So we'll take our two households as an example. We both live the same kind of lives, but I have to work 45 hours a week plus being a landlord, and they don't have to do squat because my money that I work for goes to support them, and yes, I'm sure they get medical care which I DON"T have thanks to Commie Care.

You're like a fucking broken record. And how many vacations have they been able to take their family on? Can they buy the brand new gaming systems other families do? How many new cars do they have? How often do they get to go out to dinner at a nice restaurant? Do you think they are proud parents to their children because they can't afford to do simple things like take their kids to a movie like their kid's friend's parents can?

The sad thing in all this is, you actually think that people enjoy being poor so that they can get HUD and Food Stamps... despite the fact they can't actually get the things that others enjoy in life.

You must be one miserable son of a bitch to be around in real life sitting at your front window watching people in your neighborhood complaining about everything they do.

He is correct, and you are full of shit. It's logic, observation, and facts.

He's wrong, and even someone like Westwall will tell you that a couple of firsthand observations doesn't make something a fact.

A lot more than a couple. It's a fact.

 

[PredFan]

Do we not recognize the "right to life"?

Are we not capable of providing basic healthcare to all citizens?

What facts am I leaving out?

Conservatives believe that if you treat the poor badly enough, they will be 'inspired' to stop being poor. lol

I noticed that. Because it's that simple.....

They believe that denying poor children healthcare will keep their own taxes low,

and give them more money to buy their own children better toys.

Another lie you tell yourself.

Really? You don't wish your taxes were lower? And that you didn't have to pay taxes to help low income people?

Of course, but that has nothing to do with healthcare. That's a lie you leftists tell yourselves. Like I said.

 

[PredFan]

Of all the stupid arguments that leftists make, the "Right to Healthcare" is the stupidest.

I have to disagree. If we are capable of providing healthcare to all, and don't provide it, then our "right to life" is hollow.

What do you mean if we are capable? Who says we are? We are a nation of 20 trillion dollars in debt. Medicaid is responsible for putting states in the red and draining their resources.

If we are going to have any kind of government healthcare, it has to be written so government can't control our lives. It has to be paid for across the board--not foot the bill to political enemies like we do with income taxes.

You want universal healthcare, fine with me. Have our representatives fund it through a consumption tax. The more you buy, the more you pay into the healthcare system, and then I'm fine with it.

We're capable. It would be easily done with re-prioritizing.

However YOU would like it done, it should be done. How can we as a country say we respect and revere life and tell certain people they aren't worthy of healthcare?

Shit happens, nobody should be forced to be paying for other peoples shit. You're just making up fucked up excuses

Despite that well-reasoned argument, I consider it an investment in our society, much like public education.

Which is failing.

 

[PredFan]

She claims it is a right in her country, BUT she says she wasn't born with that right. How the fuck does that happen? Well, it happens because the government gives them health care now but didn't when she was born. In other words, that colossal idiot thinks rights come from government.

Natural rights are inalienable. Legal rights are granted by law. That means rights granted by government stupid.

That means we here in the US do not have a right to healthcare. Just like I said stupid.

Health care has been a right in the USA ever since Reagan signed the EMTAL Act in 1986.

Nope, not at all true.

Bullshit.

Still not true.

 

[Muhammed]

Natural rights are inalienable. Legal rights are granted by law. That means rights granted by government stupid.

That means we here in the US do not have a right to healthcare. Just like I said stupid.

Health care has been a right in the USA ever since Reagan signed the EMTAL Act in 1986.

Nope, not at all true.

Bullshit.

Still not true.

Yes it is.

 

[PredFan]

I live in a country where everyone who is born is entitled to healthcare until the day they die.....

...Health care is a right. I wasn't born with it but all my children and grandchildren were.

Then please stay in thst country and keep your nose out of American Society. It may be a Right in your country, but it most definitely is not here. If it ever becomes one, I'll be dead.

She claims it is a right in her country, BUT she says she wasn't born with that right. How the fuck does that happen? Well, it happens because the government gives them health care now but didn't when she was born. In other words, that colossal idiot thinks rights come from government.

Natural rights are inalienable. Legal rights are granted by law. That means rights granted by government stupid.

That means we here in the US do not have a right to healthcare. Just like I said stupid.

Yep, that's why federal law mandates that everyone must receive care regardless of their ability to pay.

Why do you have to pay for a right dumbass?