If Universal Healthcare is a Bad Idea...

[PredFan]

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

No one should go without healthcare. It is a basic human right.

Bull shit. I'm in healthcare, you have no right to my time or my training. It's the stupidest argument coming from the left since, well, you guys say a LOT of stupid shit.

You're paid by a healthcare provider. You abide by their business plan whether you agree or not.

People no doubt hate seeing you coming.

I am paid, you have to pay the provider for your healthcare. If you have to pay for it it isn't a right.

So, guns are free then?

You are just too stupid. The second amendment affords the right to bear them, not the right to own one. You aren't really smart enough to be arguing.

 

[Mac1958]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Those expensive treatments that could have been caught early if the uncovered patient had access to preventive and diagnostic coverage? You're paying for that.

Those extremely low co-pays that Medicaid recipients get to pay? You're paying for that.

When the hospitals and treatment centers get STIFFED by people who have high deductibles and can't afford them? You're paying for that.

Yay! Freedom!


.

 

[dblack]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Not necessarily. How those losses are absorbed is entirely situational. But you're right to point out that EMTALA is an unfunded mandate, and when faced with these kinds of mandates, business have to find a way account for the loss. In general, they have to cut jobs, raise prices or go out of business.

In any case, you have to appreciate how this sounds to those us opposed to these mandates in the first place. We hear you saying "Listen, we have to have this new law that violates your rights because of this other law that violates your rights." - it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's drinking to cure a hangover.

 

[Mac1958]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Not necessarily. How those losses are absorbed is entirely situational. But you're right to point out that EMTALA is an unfunded mandate, and when faced with these kinds of mandates, business have to find a way account for the loss. In general, they have to cut jobs, raise prices or go out of business.

In any case, you have to appreciate how this sounds to those us opposed to these mandates in the first place. We hear you saying "Listen, we have to have this new law that violates your rights because of this other law that violates your rights." - it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's drinking to cure a hangover.

Yeah, we're simply not going to max out access, low cost and quality, at least not until medical technology takes a few more steps (which it will). For now, however, I think that expanding the Medicare/Medicare Supplement/Medicare Advantage system to all solves/mitigates the most problems at one time. It's a reasonable point of equilibrium between Single Payer (where we appear to be heading) and free market competition. And a side benefit is that it takes a massive cost monkey off the backs of American business.

I'm one of the few people here screaming this, I realize that too...
.

 

[deanrd]

Who should go without?

Those who cannot pay for it, or receive it as a benefit for their employment.

That is very right wing American Christian. Thanks.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Who should go without?

False premise.

Universal healthcare provides healthcare for all regardless of their personal ability to pay.

If that is a bad idea then you MUST support someone going without because of their inability to pay.

Who?

Not having universal health care is not the equivalent of everyone or specific groups going without.

Like I said, false premise.

You pay when others go without.

It's called freedom. Americans used to value it over just about everything else.

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

I want freedom I want half of my taxes that go to defense spending refunded because I don't like how much we spend on defense.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Now you see why only 15% of Americans support the CONSERVATIVE healthcare plan the GOP is trying to sell.

Because only dumbass conservatives like you see on the USMB right support it.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

I agree about having either socialized or universal health care system......not sure of the differences between those two though. Either way, I do think everyone should have the right to quality care & RX. Of course most complain about having to pay for others........but I see it as a process. Getting more people into the workforce & off assistance means more people are paying into it thereby keeping costs down. It would also stop companies such as Mylan from price gouging. And stop a lot of the unnecessary bs insurance companies demand of a patient before approving procedures that should have been done first up. It would definitely allow DR's to treat the problem, not just the symptoms

When somebody is paying for your healthcare, they are in charge of your life.

No doubt we Americans don't live the healthiest lifestyle. We love our fast food, we love sitting behind this computer or big screen television, we like our alcohol and some love their cigarettes, but it's our choice to make.

When somebody is paying for your healthcare, they have the ability to make your life choices for you. For instance they may say you don't get coverage if you weight too much. You don't get coverage if you use tobacco or alcohol. You don't get coverage unless you have X amount of muscle mass as determined by the government which means you have to participate in some sort of exercise program. They can do a number of things to us especially if Democrats ever get leadership of this country again.

So what could America look like if government takes total control of our healthcare?

AMAGASAKI, Japan — Japan, a country not known for its overweight people, has undertaken one of the most ambitious campaigns ever by a nation to slim down its citizenry.

Summoned by the city of Amagasaki one recent morning, Minoru Nogiri, 45, a flower shop owner, found himself lining up to have his waistline measured. With no visible paunch, he seemed to run little risk of being classified as overweight, or metabo, the preferred word in Japan these days.

But because the new state-prescribed limit for male waistlines is a strict 33.5 inches, he had anxiously measured himself at home a couple of days earlier. “I’m on the border,” he said.

Under a national law that came into effect two months ago, companies and local governments must now measure the waistlines of Japanese people between the ages of 40 and 74 as part of their annual checkups. That represents more than 56 million waistlines, or about 44 percent of the entire population.

Japan, Seeking Trim Waists, Measures Millions

OK I can understand your point, but that doesn't happen in Canada or France or other coutries

It would happen in the US - count on it. We have plenty of self-righteous busybodies here that would love to have an excuse to tell their neighbors how to live. Universal health care would give them that excuse.

Unfortunately, you do have a point

 

[Cellblock2429]

Who should go without?

/---- No one you Socialist. Those who are truly poor get medical care provided either through charitable organizations like St Jude or the state. All others pay their own way. Now stop with your straw man arguments.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[Darkwind]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Those expensive treatments that could have been caught early if the uncovered patient had access to preventive and diagnostic coverage? You're paying for that.

Those extremely low co-pays that Medicaid recipients get to pay? You're paying for that.

When the hospitals and treatment centers get STIFFED by people who have high deductibles and can't afford them? You're paying for that.

Yay! Freedom!


.

So then there is no need for Me to pay a second time, is there?

Do you understand that dependency is not compassion?

BTW.....why didn't you answer My question?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Who should go without?

/---- No one you Socialist. Those who are truly poor get medical care provided either through charitable organizations like St Jude or the state. All others pay their own way. Now stop with your straw man arguments.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

If charities are paying for all the healthcare for the poor, where is the Medicaid money going?

PS, you're an idiot.

 

[Darkwind]

False premise.

Universal healthcare provides healthcare for all regardless of their personal ability to pay.

If that is a bad idea then you MUST support someone going without because of their inability to pay.

Who?

Not having universal health care is not the equivalent of everyone or specific groups going without.

Like I said, false premise.

You pay when others go without.

It's called freedom. Americans used to value it over just about everything else.

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

I want freedom I want half of my taxes that go to defense spending refunded because I don't like how much we spend on defense.

You don't have to pay for your safety. You can always move to Britain. I guess the Constitution means nothing to you.


What is so wrong with teaching people to take responsibility for their own lives?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Those expensive treatments that could have been caught early if the uncovered patient had access to preventive and diagnostic coverage? You're paying for that.

Those extremely low co-pays that Medicaid recipients get to pay? You're paying for that.

When the hospitals and treatment centers get STIFFED by people who have high deductibles and can't afford them? You're paying for that.

Yay! Freedom!


.

So then there is no need for Me to pay a second time, is there?

Do you understand that dependency is not compassion?

BTW.....why didn't you answer My question?

Why don't the industrialized nations of the world who do provide universal healthcare have more problems with poverty than we do?

 

[Mac1958]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Those expensive treatments that could have been caught early if the uncovered patient had access to preventive and diagnostic coverage? You're paying for that.

Those extremely low co-pays that Medicaid recipients get to pay? You're paying for that.

When the hospitals and treatment centers get STIFFED by people who have high deductibles and can't afford them? You're paying for that.

Yay! Freedom!


.

So then there is no need for Me to pay a second time, is there?

Do you understand that dependency is not compassion?

BTW.....why didn't you answer My question?

I assumed it was a rhetorical question. Or wishful thinking. It's not going to happen on a macro scale, so we need a plan B for the real world.

I wonder how much you know about the Medicare Supplement/Medicare Advantage system.
.

 

[Darkwind]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Those expensive treatments that could have been caught early if the uncovered patient had access to preventive and diagnostic coverage? You're paying for that.

Those extremely low co-pays that Medicaid recipients get to pay? You're paying for that.

When the hospitals and treatment centers get STIFFED by people who have high deductibles and can't afford them? You're paying for that.

Yay! Freedom!


.

So then there is no need for Me to pay a second time, is there?

Do you understand that dependency is not compassion?

BTW.....why didn't you answer My question?

Why don't the industrialized nations of the world who do provide universal healthcare have more problems with poverty than we do?

Again with the false equivalence. Answer My question.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Universal healthcare provides healthcare for all regardless of their personal ability to pay.

If that is a bad idea then you MUST support someone going without because of their inability to pay.

Who?

Not having universal health care is not the equivalent of everyone or specific groups going without.

Like I said, false premise.

You pay when others go without.

It's called freedom. Americans used to value it over just about everything else.

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

I want freedom I want half of my taxes that go to defense spending refunded because I don't like how much we spend on defense.

You don't have to pay for your safety. You can always move to Britain. I guess the Constitution means nothing to you.


What is so wrong with teaching people to take responsibility for their own lives?

Which government healthcare programs have been ruled unconstitutional?

List them. Or shut up and express you ignorance in silence.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Those expensive treatments that could have been caught early if the uncovered patient had access to preventive and diagnostic coverage? You're paying for that.

Those extremely low co-pays that Medicaid recipients get to pay? You're paying for that.

When the hospitals and treatment centers get STIFFED by people who have high deductibles and can't afford them? You're paying for that.

Yay! Freedom!


.

So then there is no need for Me to pay a second time, is there?

Do you understand that dependency is not compassion?

BTW.....why didn't you answer My question?

Why don't the industrialized nations of the world who do provide universal healthcare have more problems with poverty than we do?

Again with the false equivalence. Answer My question.

You want poor children to die for lack of healthcare. You want poor children to fail for lack of an education.

We get it.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Who should go without?

The people that do not want it, and should not be paying for other people....
Fucking Control freaks...

If you don't want it, then never seek care. Simple.

Health insurance/single payer are not healthcare… Dipshit
Lol

No shit. They're a means of paying for your healthcare.

Just because someone has insurance does not mean that the insurance companies gonna pay for shit…

I suppose if you're too dumb to know what you've bought then sure.

 

[Darkwind]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Those expensive treatments that could have been caught early if the uncovered patient had access to preventive and diagnostic coverage? You're paying for that.

Those extremely low co-pays that Medicaid recipients get to pay? You're paying for that.

When the hospitals and treatment centers get STIFFED by people who have high deductibles and can't afford them? You're paying for that.

Yay! Freedom!


.

So then there is no need for Me to pay a second time, is there?

Do you understand that dependency is not compassion?

BTW.....why didn't you answer My question?

I assumed it was a rhetorical question. Or wishful thinking. It's not going to happen on a macro scale, so we need a plan B for the real world.

I wonder how much you know about the Medicare Supplement/Medicare Advantage system.
.

I that right now, the left have created such a dependency on their largess that they can stand in front of the American people and scream that people (Large numbers of people) are going to die (let Me rephrase that) DIE!!! if we cut a minuscule amount of a planned increase in Medicare and Medicaid.

Do you think that this equates to compassion or recklessness? Do you think that a dependency on anyone or anything other than yourself is a healthy way to live?

Tell Me. What happens when they tell you that you're too old for this procedure. They already justify it. I guess they just have to die, right?
Tell Me, what happens when the government goes broke and the people have been weaned off of self-sufficiency?
Tell Me, in today's environment of raw hatred for those who do not do as they say or think, how safe will you be when the entity with the fucking guns tell you that you'll do this, or we'll withhold your healthcare, or better yet, you vote for us, or your mother doesn't get that operation.

Don't even dare to believe it cannot happen.

 

[Darkwind]

Instead of demanding I pay for those who won't, why don't you demand that people take responsibility for their own life?

You're already paying for those who don't.

Those expensive ER visits that people access for "free" because they have nothing else? You're paying for that.

Those expensive treatments that could have been caught early if the uncovered patient had access to preventive and diagnostic coverage? You're paying for that.

Those extremely low co-pays that Medicaid recipients get to pay? You're paying for that.

When the hospitals and treatment centers get STIFFED by people who have high deductibles and can't afford them? You're paying for that.

Yay! Freedom!


.

So then there is no need for Me to pay a second time, is there?

Do you understand that dependency is not compassion?

BTW.....why didn't you answer My question?

Why don't the industrialized nations of the world who do provide universal healthcare have more problems with poverty than we do?

Again with the false equivalence. Answer My question.

You want poor children to die for lack of healthcare. You want poor children to fail for lack of an education.

We get it.

Liar. I don't want poor children to die for lack of healthcare. I want parents to be able to provide for their children BEFORE they have them. Including healthcare.

Makes you a liar of the first order.