If We Close Down All Mosques; Eliminate All Korans. THEN What ?

[Redfish]

Can't be done.

But that doesn't stop such folk from attempting to silence opinion, through ad hominem attacks and insults and denigration and ridicule, or overwhelming them in a gang-pile of counter-posting, etc.

All that is required to counter that, however, is to simply push back - not to provoke, but to stand one's ground once attacked - and to give back better than one receives.

That's not hard to do against these Islamapologist phonies, who have no substance to say, and pretend that the obvious (Supremacy Clause outlawing supremacism) doesn't exist. There are no limits of absurdity to which these zealots (some of who are Muslim jihadists) will go, to push their jihad, and try to silence their critics.

yes, but you are wrong when you claim that islam is not a religion.

I am right. Italy is right. Most people around the world are right. You are wrong.

no, you are an idiot. but I am not going to waste time proving it since you prove your idiocy with each new post.

You not going to waste time trying to prove it, because you CAN'T.

I am right. Italy is right. Most people around the world are right. You are wrong

 

[Liminal]

...Considering ideas like that is unAmerican. Implementing such measures would mean the Constitution had been ripped to shreds, leaving few reasons for this country to even exist.

Hardly. Considering the removal of protections for a hostile, toxic belief system is a matter of self-preservation. Acting upon such considerations is another matter, but, in a survival setting or sufficient extreme conditions, you can count on such thinking coming to the forefront. And all within the framework of Constitutional Law. Count on that too, if such a sorry day ever materializes. Don't believe me? Think west coast 'Japanese-Americans' during the 1941-1945 time frame. And, of course, under circumstances wherein Safety and Constitutionality are at sword's point - Safety wins-out, nearly every time. Count on that, too. The US Constitution is not a collective suicide pact.

How would you justify repeating that shameful chapter in American history? With the exestential threat of Islam?

 

[Kondor3]

No one is 'forgetting' anything.

One can be a loyal and dutiful American citizen while at the same time retaining the values and traditions of his home culture, that is indeed what makes America great and strong; one does not exclude the other.

That a Muslim should adhere to a belief system that you subjectively perceive to be 'radical' does not mitigate that Muslim's rights as an American citizen, where the same holds true for a radical Christian opposed to privacy rights for women and equal protection rights for gay Americans.

Indeed, neither you nor anyone else on the right with an unwarranted fear and hatred of Muslims is in a position of authority to judge whether a Muslim is 'radical' or not, or whether he's refused to to accept American culture and values.

The issue is the ignorance of Islam, along with an unwarranted fear and hatred of Muslims and the failure to understand that the actions of the few are not representative of the whole.

I agree 100%. Did you support the attack on the religious group in Waco?

there is no "fear of muslims" there is an acknowledgement of the danger presented by radical islam.

Did you support the beheading of 21 Christians in the name of Islam?

So no one blames the Koran itself as the source of the terrorism?

We've never heard that rant before? lol, where have you been?

radical interpretation of the koran is the issue here, please try to keep up

So the people who blame the Koran itself, including all those here at USMB, are fucking idiots?

You're catching on.

I have always caught on, its you who has been very slow.

there are verses in the koran that can easily be interpreted to support violence against all non-muslims. There is absolutely no question about that.

I would say that the "fucking idiots" are the ones who deny that radical islam exists and is determined to destroy western civilization.

The Q'uran is absolute saturated with injunctions and particulars and justifications for waging war and committing violence against Unbelievers.

Absolutely saturated with it.

And, to make matters worse, Islam (1) doesn't have a 'command structure' and (2) has locked-out changes, precluding serious Reform.

It's a Warrior Religion - long dormant - now re-awakening (and re-militarizing) after long decades and centuries under the colonial and imperial rule of a variety of Euro-Trash - awakening to the fact that Islam (as a domain) has fallen desperately far behind The West in social evolution, technology, military capabilities, etc., and it's scared and angry and determined to catch-up and reestablish itself as a dominating force in the world. It is a powder-keg, and it is highly susceptible to the match of any street-corner mullah with a bug up his ass who wants to 'make his bones' and add his bit to the collective re-awakening and attempts to recapture the glories of past centuries. It is a Disturber of the Peace.

 

[Redfish]

not in reality. the mullahs have more power than the "secular" government.

Prove it.

prove what? what everyone already knows?

Okay, prove 2 things.

1. The mullahs in Indonesia have more power than the government

2. That everyone already knows that.

the mullahs have more power than the government in all islamic countries. Islam is the government, the mullahs, imams, and ayatollahs run the church and thereby the government. presidents are figureheads and implementers of the dictates of the religious leaders.

I am sorry if you education failed you in that regard.

Indonesian Constitution:

Article 28E

(1) Every person shall be free to choose and to practice the religion of his/her choice, to choose one's education, to choose one's employment, to choose one's citizenship, and to choose one's place of residence within the state territory, to leave it and to subsequently return to it.
(2) Every person shall have the right to the freedom to believe his/her faith (kepercayaan), and to express his/her views and thoughts, in accordance with his/her conscience.
(3) Every person shall have the right to the freedom to associate, to assemble and to express opinions.

yeah, and our constitution does not give the president the power to make or change, or ignore laws. Whats your point?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Prove it.

prove what? what everyone already knows?

Okay, prove 2 things.

1. The mullahs in Indonesia have more power than the government

2. That everyone already knows that.

the mullahs have more power than the government in all islamic countries. Islam is the government, the mullahs, imams, and ayatollahs run the church and thereby the government. presidents are figureheads and implementers of the dictates of the religious leaders.

I am sorry if you education failed you in that regard.

Indonesian Constitution:

Article 28E

(1) Every person shall be free to choose and to practice the religion of his/her choice, to choose one's education, to choose one's employment, to choose one's citizenship, and to choose one's place of residence within the state territory, to leave it and to subsequently return to it.
(2) Every person shall have the right to the freedom to believe his/her faith (kepercayaan), and to express his/her views and thoughts, in accordance with his/her conscience.
(3) Every person shall have the right to the freedom to associate, to assemble and to express opinions.

yeah, and our constitution does not give the president the power to make or change, or ignore laws. Whats your point?

Okay, so you want to establish that all Constiutions are of no value in political arguments? I can count on you never using the US Constitution to support any point you try to make?

lol, you are losing badly here, duncecap.

 

[Kondor3]

...Considering ideas like that is unAmerican. Implementing such measures would mean the Constitution had been ripped to shreds, leaving few reasons for this country to even exist.

Hardly. Considering the removal of protections for a hostile, toxic belief system is a matter of self-preservation. Acting upon such considerations is another matter, but, in a survival setting or sufficient extreme conditions, you can count on such thinking coming to the forefront. And all within the framework of Constitutional Law. Count on that too, if such a sorry day ever materializes. Don't believe me? Think west coast 'Japanese-Americans' during the 1941-1945 time frame. And, of course, under circumstances wherein Safety and Constitutionality are at sword's point - Safety wins-out, nearly every time. Count on that, too. The US Constitution is not a collective suicide pact.

How would you justify repeating that shameful chapter in American history? With the exestential threat of Islam?

I am not proposing that we do so - although I would laugh and dance a jig and clap like a little child, if we did; seeing us regain our senses, and neutralize a threat-vector.

No - I am saying that if Radical Militant Islam pushes on The West - and the United States - hard enough, that it seems very likely that such a thing will unfold.

And, frankly, Radical Militant Islam is like an psychotic escapee from an insane asylum - they cannot help themselves - eventually, they probably will push us that hard.

If and when that happens, it will be pitched in terms of Constitutional Law, it will be stripped of its protected status at-law, and will then be fair game, as, perhaps, it should be.

In any event, that's up to the American People to decide, and I am content to let it rest with them, over time.

 

[protectionist]

That's not hard to do against these Islamapologist phonies, who have no substance to say, and pretend that the obvious (Supremacy Clause outlawing supremacism) doesn't exist. There are no limits of absurdity to which these zealots (some of who are Muslim jihadists) will go, to push their jihad, and try to silence their critics.

yes, but you are wrong when you claim that islam is not a religion.

I am right. Italy is right. Most people around the world are right. You are wrong.

no, you are an idiot. but I am not going to waste time proving it since you prove your idiocy with each new post.

You not going to waste time trying to prove it, because you CAN'T.

I am right. Italy is right. Most people around the world are right. You are wrong

Religions have a code of ETHICS. Islam (the Koran) has genocide, wife-beating, sex discrimination, rape, pedophilia, slavery, torture/mutilation, et al vile things. You call this "ethics" ? Time for you to step back and take another look. I don't care if the US defines Islam as a religion, and Italy does not. I agree with Italy, not the US.

 

[Liminal]

I agree 100%. Did you support the attack on the religious group in Waco?

there is no "fear of muslims" there is an acknowledgement of the danger presented by radical islam.

Did you support the beheading of 21 Christians in the name of Islam?

So no one blames the Koran itself as the source of the terrorism?

We've never heard that rant before? lol, where have you been?

radical interpretation of the koran is the issue here, please try to keep up

So the people who blame the Koran itself, including all those here at USMB, are fucking idiots?

You're catching on.

I have always caught on, its you who has been very slow.

there are verses in the koran that can easily be interpreted to support violence against all non-muslims. There is absolutely no question about that.

I would say that the "fucking idiots" are the ones who deny that radical islam exists and is determined to destroy western civilization.

The Q'uran is absolute saturated with injunctions and particulars and justifications for waging war and committing violence against Unbelievers.

Absolutely saturated with it.

And, to make matters worse, Islam (1) doesn't have a 'command structure' and (2) has locked-out changes, precluding serious Reform.

It's a Warrior Religion - long dormant - now re-awakening (and re-militarizing) after long decades and centuries under the colonial and imperial rule of a variety of Euro-Trash - awakening to the fact that Islam (as a domain) has fallen desperately far behind The West in social evolution, technology, military capabilities, etc., and it's scared and angry and determined to catch-up and reestablish itself as a dominating force in the world. It is a powder-keg, and it is highly susceptible to the match of any street-corner mullah with a bug up his ass who wants to 'make his bones' and add his bit to the collective re-awakening and attempts to recapture the glories of past centuries. It is a Disturber of the Peace.

You promote the rather shallow, generic characterization of Islam. It's as though some people need simplistic explanations to make sense out of the world.

 

[Kondor3]

So no one blames the Koran itself as the source of the terrorism?

We've never heard that rant before? lol, where have you been?

radical interpretation of the koran is the issue here, please try to keep up

So the people who blame the Koran itself, including all those here at USMB, are fucking idiots?

You're catching on.

I have always caught on, its you who has been very slow.

there are verses in the koran that can easily be interpreted to support violence against all non-muslims. There is absolutely no question about that.

I would say that the "fucking idiots" are the ones who deny that radical islam exists and is determined to destroy western civilization.

The Q'uran is absolute saturated with injunctions and particulars and justifications for waging war and committing violence against Unbelievers.

Absolutely saturated with it.

And, to make matters worse, Islam (1) doesn't have a 'command structure' and (2) has locked-out changes, precluding serious Reform.

It's a Warrior Religion - long dormant - now re-awakening (and re-militarizing) after long decades and centuries under the colonial and imperial rule of a variety of Euro-Trash - awakening to the fact that Islam (as a domain) has fallen desperately far behind The West in social evolution, technology, military capabilities, etc., and it's scared and angry and determined to catch-up and reestablish itself as a dominating force in the world. It is a powder-keg, and it is highly susceptible to the match of any street-corner mullah with a bug up his ass who wants to 'make his bones' and add his bit to the collective re-awakening and attempts to recapture the glories of past centuries. It is a Disturber of the Peace.

You promote the rather shallow, generic characterization of Islam. It's as though some people need simplistic explanations to make sense out of the world.

Occam's Razor.

 

[Liminal]

yes, but you are wrong when you claim that islam is not a religion.

I am right. Italy is right. Most people around the world are right. You are wrong.

no, you are an idiot. but I am not going to waste time proving it since you prove your idiocy with each new post.

You not going to waste time trying to prove it, because you CAN'T.

I am right. Italy is right. Most people around the world are right. You are wrong

Religions have a code of ETHICS. Islam (the Koran) has genocide, wife-beating, sex discrimination, rape, pedophilia, slavery, torture/mutilation, et al vile things. You call this "ethics" ? Time for you to step back and take another look. I don't care if the US defines Islam as a religion, and Italy does not. I agree with Italy, not the US.

It's just unfortunate that your code of ethics excludes the US Constitution.

 

[Liminal]

radical interpretation of the koran is the issue here, please try to keep up

So the people who blame the Koran itself, including all those here at USMB, are fucking idiots?

You're catching on.

I have always caught on, its you who has been very slow.

there are verses in the koran that can easily be interpreted to support violence against all non-muslims. There is absolutely no question about that.

I would say that the "fucking idiots" are the ones who deny that radical islam exists and is determined to destroy western civilization.

The Q'uran is absolute saturated with injunctions and particulars and justifications for waging war and committing violence against Unbelievers.

Absolutely saturated with it.

And, to make matters worse, Islam (1) doesn't have a 'command structure' and (2) has locked-out changes, precluding serious Reform.

It's a Warrior Religion - long dormant - now re-awakening (and re-militarizing) after long decades and centuries under the colonial and imperial rule of a variety of Euro-Trash - awakening to the fact that Islam (as a domain) has fallen desperately far behind The West in social evolution, technology, military capabilities, etc., and it's scared and angry and determined to catch-up and reestablish itself as a dominating force in the world. It is a powder-keg, and it is highly susceptible to the match of any street-corner mullah with a bug up his ass who wants to 'make his bones' and add his bit to the collective re-awakening and attempts to recapture the glories of past centuries. It is a Disturber of the Peace.

You promote the rather shallow, generic characterization of Islam. It's as though some people need simplistic explanations to make sense out of the world.

Occam's Razor.

I'm not the least bit interested in phony standards of debate decorum when they are obviously used to promote superficial anecdotes.

 

[protectionist]

I am right. Italy is right. Most people around the world are right. You are wrong.

no, you are an idiot. but I am not going to waste time proving it since you prove your idiocy with each new post.

You not going to waste time trying to prove it, because you CAN'T.

I am right. Italy is right. Most people around the world are right. You are wrong

Religions have a code of ETHICS. Islam (the Koran) has genocide, wife-beating, sex discrimination, rape, pedophilia, slavery, torture/mutilation, et al vile things. You call this "ethics" ? Time for you to step back and take another look. I don't care if the US defines Islam as a religion, and Italy does not. I agree with Italy, not the US.

It's just unfortunate that your code of ethics excludes the US Constitution.

Not at all. And YOU KNOW it Mr LIAR TAQIYYA JIHADIST. I've already posted the text of the Constitution more than once in this thread. You are displaying your deceit and revealing your jihadism.

You're not too good at this Mohammed. Maybe you might be better at throwing rocks.

 

[protectionist]

So the people who blame the Koran itself, including all those here at USMB, are fucking idiots?

You're catching on.

I have always caught on, its you who has been very slow.

there are verses in the koran that can easily be interpreted to support violence against all non-muslims. There is absolutely no question about that.

I would say that the "fucking idiots" are the ones who deny that radical islam exists and is determined to destroy western civilization.

The Q'uran is absolute saturated with injunctions and particulars and justifications for waging war and committing violence against Unbelievers.

Absolutely saturated with it.

And, to make matters worse, Islam (1) doesn't have a 'command structure' and (2) has locked-out changes, precluding serious Reform.

It's a Warrior Religion - long dormant - now re-awakening (and re-militarizing) after long decades and centuries under the colonial and imperial rule of a variety of Euro-Trash - awakening to the fact that Islam (as a domain) has fallen desperately far behind The West in social evolution, technology, military capabilities, etc., and it's scared and angry and determined to catch-up and reestablish itself as a dominating force in the world. It is a powder-keg, and it is highly susceptible to the match of any street-corner mullah with a bug up his ass who wants to 'make his bones' and add his bit to the collective re-awakening and attempts to recapture the glories of past centuries. It is a Disturber of the Peace.

You promote the rather shallow, generic characterization of Islam. It's as though some people need simplistic explanations to make sense out of the world.

Occam's Razor.

I'm not the least bit interested in phony standards of debate decorum when they are obviously used to promote superficial anecdotes.

Doesn't matter what a jihadist pretends to be interested in.

 

[protectionist]

So no one blames the Koran itself as the source of the terrorism?

We've never heard that rant before? lol, where have you been?

radical interpretation of the koran is the issue here, please try to keep up

So the people who blame the Koran itself, including all those here at USMB, are fucking idiots?

You're catching on.

I have always caught on, its you who has been very slow.

there are verses in the koran that can easily be interpreted to support violence against all non-muslims. There is absolutely no question about that.

I would say that the "fucking idiots" are the ones who deny that radical islam exists and is determined to destroy western civilization.

The Q'uran is absolute saturated with injunctions and particulars and justifications for waging war and committing violence against Unbelievers.

Absolutely saturated with it.

And, to make matters worse, Islam (1) doesn't have a 'command structure' and (2) has locked-out changes, precluding serious Reform.

It's a Warrior Religion - long dormant - now re-awakening (and re-militarizing) after long decades and centuries under the colonial and imperial rule of a variety of Euro-Trash - awakening to the fact that Islam (as a domain) has fallen desperately far behind The West in social evolution, technology, military capabilities, etc., and it's scared and angry and determined to catch-up and reestablish itself as a dominating force in the world. It is a powder-keg, and it is highly susceptible to the match of any street-corner mullah with a bug up his ass who wants to 'make his bones' and add his bit to the collective re-awakening and attempts to recapture the glories of past centuries. It is a Disturber of the Peace.

You promote the rather shallow, generic characterization of Islam. It's as though some people need simplistic explanations to make sense out of the world.

Islam does not have "characterization" or the Islamists' other favorite word, "interpretation". It is CLEAR. All one need do is read the suras of the Koran to see the genocide, wife-beating, sex discrimination, rape, pedophilia, slavery, torture/mutilation, et al vile things

 

[Papageorgio]

What would be the effect of shutting Islam down in the US ? That is, by closing down all the mosques and eliminating all the Korans from libraries, schools, bookstores, and wherever they could be obtained.

Would Muslims regroup and finally choose a new name for their creed ? (one that doesn't mean "Submission") Would they finally reform their "religion" (if it could be called that), and change away from the stuff that's in the Koran ?

Could the United States be the leader in the world, whereby American Muslims would lead the way for the non-American Ummah and create a whole new pathway, with a fully edited/reformed Koran ? Before anyone jumps in to answer this, with a positive outlook, be advised. A word of caution. The current Koran, containing just about every vile thing known to man, and advocating these things (if not commanding them), is considered by Muslims to be the word of God (which cannot be changed, in their view). And in 1400 years, not one word of the Koran has ever been changed.

Then we would be no better than Muslim countries that ban other religions.

 

[Kondor3]

So the people who blame the Koran itself, including all those here at USMB, are fucking idiots?

You're catching on.

I have always caught on, its you who has been very slow.

there are verses in the koran that can easily be interpreted to support violence against all non-muslims. There is absolutely no question about that.

I would say that the "fucking idiots" are the ones who deny that radical islam exists and is determined to destroy western civilization.

The Q'uran is absolute saturated with injunctions and particulars and justifications for waging war and committing violence against Unbelievers.

Absolutely saturated with it.

And, to make matters worse, Islam (1) doesn't have a 'command structure' and (2) has locked-out changes, precluding serious Reform.

It's a Warrior Religion - long dormant - now re-awakening (and re-militarizing) after long decades and centuries under the colonial and imperial rule of a variety of Euro-Trash - awakening to the fact that Islam (as a domain) has fallen desperately far behind The West in social evolution, technology, military capabilities, etc., and it's scared and angry and determined to catch-up and reestablish itself as a dominating force in the world. It is a powder-keg, and it is highly susceptible to the match of any street-corner mullah with a bug up his ass who wants to 'make his bones' and add his bit to the collective re-awakening and attempts to recapture the glories of past centuries. It is a Disturber of the Peace.

You promote the rather shallow, generic characterization of Islam. It's as though some people need simplistic explanations to make sense out of the world.

Occam's Razor.

I'm not the least bit interested in phony standards of debate decorum when they are obviously used to promote superficial anecdotes.

Phony standards of debate decorum?

Hell, I was giving you concise feedback to your 'simplistic explanations' comment.

Translation: "The simplest explanation is usually the correct one."

 

[Kondor3]

radical interpretation of the koran is the issue here, please try to keep up

So the people who blame the Koran itself, including all those here at USMB, are fucking idiots?

You're catching on.

I have always caught on, its you who has been very slow.

there are verses in the koran that can easily be interpreted to support violence against all non-muslims. There is absolutely no question about that.

I would say that the "fucking idiots" are the ones who deny that radical islam exists and is determined to destroy western civilization.

The Q'uran is absolute saturated with injunctions and particulars and justifications for waging war and committing violence against Unbelievers.

Absolutely saturated with it.

And, to make matters worse, Islam (1) doesn't have a 'command structure' and (2) has locked-out changes, precluding serious Reform.

It's a Warrior Religion - long dormant - now re-awakening (and re-militarizing) after long decades and centuries under the colonial and imperial rule of a variety of Euro-Trash - awakening to the fact that Islam (as a domain) has fallen desperately far behind The West in social evolution, technology, military capabilities, etc., and it's scared and angry and determined to catch-up and reestablish itself as a dominating force in the world. It is a powder-keg, and it is highly susceptible to the match of any street-corner mullah with a bug up his ass who wants to 'make his bones' and add his bit to the collective re-awakening and attempts to recapture the glories of past centuries. It is a Disturber of the Peace.

You promote the rather shallow, generic characterization of Islam. It's as though some people need simplistic explanations to make sense out of the world.

Islam does not have "characterization" or the Islamists' other favorite word, "interpretation". It is CLEAR. All one need do is read the suras of the Koran to see the genocide, wife-beating, sex discrimination, rape, pedophilia, slavery, torture/mutilation, et al vile things

I am beginning to suspect that you are correct about the nature of our colleague... despite the American-looking profile or the incessant accusations of un-American-ism.

Our friend is far too sensitive and far too insistent, and it's not terribly difficult to find his-her-its hot-buttons.

Good catch - I think.

 

[Liminal]

So the people who blame the Koran itself, including all those here at USMB, are fucking idiots?

You're catching on.

I have always caught on, its you who has been very slow.

there are verses in the koran that can easily be interpreted to support violence against all non-muslims. There is absolutely no question about that.

I would say that the "fucking idiots" are the ones who deny that radical islam exists and is determined to destroy western civilization.

The Q'uran is absolute saturated with injunctions and particulars and justifications for waging war and committing violence against Unbelievers.

Absolutely saturated with it.

And, to make matters worse, Islam (1) doesn't have a 'command structure' and (2) has locked-out changes, precluding serious Reform.

It's a Warrior Religion - long dormant - now re-awakening (and re-militarizing) after long decades and centuries under the colonial and imperial rule of a variety of Euro-Trash - awakening to the fact that Islam (as a domain) has fallen desperately far behind The West in social evolution, technology, military capabilities, etc., and it's scared and angry and determined to catch-up and reestablish itself as a dominating force in the world. It is a powder-keg, and it is highly susceptible to the match of any street-corner mullah with a bug up his ass who wants to 'make his bones' and add his bit to the collective re-awakening and attempts to recapture the glories of past centuries. It is a Disturber of the Peace.

You promote the rather shallow, generic characterization of Islam. It's as though some people need simplistic explanations to make sense out of the world.

Islam does not have "characterization" or the Islamists' other favorite word, "interpretation". It is CLEAR. All one need do is read the suras of the Koran to see the genocide, wife-beating, sex discrimination, rape, pedophilia, slavery, torture/mutilation, et al vile things

I am beginning to suspect that you are correct about the nature of our colleague... despite the American-looking profile or the incessant accusations of un-American-ism.

Our friend is far too sensitive and far too insistent, and it's not terribly difficult to find his-her-its hot-buttons.

Good catch - I think.

One thing you people seem to have forgotten in your pointless academic exercise. You haven't established the need for any such actions, you haven't substantiated the threat, you haven't come anywhere close to showing that American Muslims are any kind of threat to national security.

 

[Liminal]

What would be the effect of shutting Islam down in the US ? That is, by closing down all the mosques and eliminating all the Korans from libraries, schools, bookstores, and wherever they could be obtained.

Would Muslims regroup and finally choose a new name for their creed ? (one that doesn't mean "Submission") Would they finally reform their "religion" (if it could be called that), and change away from the stuff that's in the Koran ?

Could the United States be the leader in the world, whereby American Muslims would lead the way for the non-American Ummah and create a whole new pathway, with a fully edited/reformed Koran ? Before anyone jumps in to answer this, with a positive outlook, be advised. A word of caution. The current Koran, containing just about every vile thing known to man, and advocating these things (if not commanding them), is considered by Muslims to be the word of God (which cannot be changed, in their view). And in 1400 years, not one word of the Koran has ever been changed.

Then we would be no better than Muslim countries that ban other religions.

The contradiction apparently eludes some people.

 

[Redfish]

prove what? what everyone already knows?

Okay, prove 2 things.

1. The mullahs in Indonesia have more power than the government

2. That everyone already knows that.

the mullahs have more power than the government in all islamic countries. Islam is the government, the mullahs, imams, and ayatollahs run the church and thereby the government. presidents are figureheads and implementers of the dictates of the religious leaders.

I am sorry if you education failed you in that regard.

Indonesian Constitution:

Article 28E

(1) Every person shall be free to choose and to practice the religion of his/her choice, to choose one's education, to choose one's employment, to choose one's citizenship, and to choose one's place of residence within the state territory, to leave it and to subsequently return to it.
(2) Every person shall have the right to the freedom to believe his/her faith (kepercayaan), and to express his/her views and thoughts, in accordance with his/her conscience.
(3) Every person shall have the right to the freedom to associate, to assemble and to express opinions.

yeah, and our constitution does not give the president the power to make or change, or ignore laws. Whats your point?

Okay, so you want to establish that all Constiutions are of no value in political arguments? I can count on you never using the US Constitution to support any point you try to make?

lol, you are losing badly here, duncecap.

my only point, which was apparently way over your head, was that a constitution is only valid if the government of the country complies with it. Indonesia does not follow its constitution regarding religion, specifically islam and the US does not comply with its regarding presidental powers.

anything can be written in a document, but if those rules are not followed the document is meaningless.