If you require providers to accept pre-existing conditions, it's not insurance any more

[ding]

That precondition bullshit is nothing more than a form a welfare.

If you haven't been paying into an insurance pool then you shouldn't be able to get money out of it. The filthy ass government should never have the authority to make some somebody else pay your bills.

That is why the republicans lost the health care debate in 2009, their message was that if you could not afford to get medical care then tough shit, die loser. Normally this worked when it was mostly the poor being fucked over but costs were finally getting too much for the middle class.

I am sorry but it is not my responsibility to pay your bills. That is your responsibility.

Why should the filthy ass government force my premiums be higher to pay your medical bills when you never even into the pool?

That is just nothing more than another stupid welfare scheme.

In other words, let them die.

No. You are the one who wants everyone to pay for health insurance so that you don't have to pay for them. So, please don't pretend that you have some moral high ground because you care about people.

My position is we should stop misuing insurance to cover everything because in effect we are pre-paying for healthcare using a middleman which is stupid. My position is that we should have the choice how we pay for our healthcare. Those that can afford to pay as they go can. Those that can't can use Medicaid, which has a recovery feature in it to recoup those costs when and if the recipient ever gets any money. My position is that co-ops are much better way to go than insurance companies. The sooner we get those needless middlemen - who add zero value to health care - out of the way, the sooner we can bring down costs by working directly with the health care providers. So, if you want to pre-pay, the co-op is the way to go.

Do you know about this thing called a "co-pay" it already has the affect of making people cover their minor expenses, thing is, drug prices have went up 4 times faster than inflation and the government continually bars itself from negotiating the price they will pay for these drugs. This is not just new drugs but generics as well. If we really wanted to get a handle on costs that would be a damned good place to start.

To do a proper analysis you have to add up all of the payments; monthly premiums+co-pays+deductibles+remaining cost not paid by insurance. When you do that, and compare it to the likelihood that you won't need to access those services, paying as you go is viable. THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR DAY TO DAY MEDICAL NEEDS. Now, if you believe you must pre-pay, then eliminating the middleman who adds zero value to your medical treatment is the way to go.

 

[ding]

[

No. You are the one who wants everyone to pay for health insurance so that you don't have to pay for them. So, please don't pretend that you have some moral high ground because you care about people.

My position is we should stop misuing insurance to cover everything because in effect we are pre-paying for healthcare using a middleman which is stupid. My position is that we should have the choice how we pay for our healthcare. Those that can afford to pay as they go can. Those that can't can use Medicaid, which has a recovery feature in it to recoup those costs when and if the recipient ever gets any money. My position is that co-ops are much better way to go than insurance companies. The sooner we get those needless middlemen - who add zero value to health care - out of the way, the sooner we can bring down costs by working directly with the health care providers. So, if you want to pre-pay, the co-op is the way to go.

These Libtard Moon Bats are the greediest assholes in the country wanting somebody else to pay their bills.

They think they are entitled to other people money simply because they are alive. Despicable, isn't it?

Despicable is thinking "let them die" is a valid argument.

No. Despicable is saying that that is our argument when in reality it is not and in reality your argument is that you don't want to pay for deadbeats.

 

[Flash]

[Q

Despicable is thinking "let them die" is a valid argument.

The thievery that you greedy Moon Bat think you are entitled to simply because you are alive is despicable. Very despicable.

Go get a job Moon Bat and pay your own bills.

 

[occupied]

That is why the republicans lost the health care debate in 2009, their message was that if you could not afford to get medical care then tough shit, die loser. Normally this worked when it was mostly the poor being fucked over but costs were finally getting too much for the middle class.

I am sorry but it is not my responsibility to pay your bills. That is your responsibility.

Why should the filthy ass government force my premiums be higher to pay your medical bills when you never even into the pool?

That is just nothing more than another stupid welfare scheme.

In other words, let them die.

No. You are the one who wants everyone to pay for health insurance so that you don't have to pay for them. So, please don't pretend that you have some moral high ground because you care about people.

My position is we should stop misuing insurance to cover everything because in effect we are pre-paying for healthcare using a middleman which is stupid. My position is that we should have the choice how we pay for our healthcare. Those that can afford to pay as they go can. Those that can't can use Medicaid, which has a recovery feature in it to recoup those costs when and if the recipient ever gets any money. My position is that co-ops are much better way to go than insurance companies. The sooner we get those needless middlemen - who add zero value to health care - out of the way, the sooner we can bring down costs by working directly with the health care providers. So, if you want to pre-pay, the co-op is the way to go.

Do you know about this thing called a "co-pay" it already has the affect of making people cover their minor expenses, thing is, drug prices have went up 4 times faster than inflation and the government continually bars itself from negotiating the price they will pay for these drugs. This is not just new drugs but generics as well. If we really wanted to get a handle on costs that would be a damned good place to start.

To do a proper analysis you have to add up all of the payments; monthly premiums+co-pays+deductibles+remaining cost not paid by insurance. When you do that, and compare it to the likelihood that you won't need to access those services, paying as you go is viable. Now, if you believe you must pre-pay, then eliminating the middleman who adds zero value to your medical treatment is the way to go.

If everyone was reasonably healthy co-ops would be OK but they are not, 20% of Americans are responsible for 80% of costs. For those unlucky enough to have expensive conditions none of these "solutions" are an option.

 

[Flash]

[

If everyone was reasonably healthy co-ops would be OK but they are not, 20% of Americans are responsible for 80% of costs. For those unlucky enough to have expensive conditions none of these "solutions" are an option.

Health Care is no different than any other commodity.

You are NOT entitled to it simply because you are alive and it would be thievery for the government to force somebody else to pay for your bills.

If you want good health then pay for it yourself. Leave me out of it. You are not entitled to my money.

Stop being a greedy asshole.

 

[occupied]

[

No. You are the one who wants everyone to pay for health insurance so that you don't have to pay for them. So, please don't pretend that you have some moral high ground because you care about people.

My position is we should stop misuing insurance to cover everything because in effect we are pre-paying for healthcare using a middleman which is stupid. My position is that we should have the choice how we pay for our healthcare. Those that can afford to pay as they go can. Those that can't can use Medicaid, which has a recovery feature in it to recoup those costs when and if the recipient ever gets any money. My position is that co-ops are much better way to go than insurance companies. The sooner we get those needless middlemen - who add zero value to health care - out of the way, the sooner we can bring down costs by working directly with the health care providers. So, if you want to pre-pay, the co-op is the way to go.

These Libtard Moon Bats are the greediest assholes in the country wanting somebody else to pay their bills.

They think they are entitled to other people money simply because they are alive. Despicable, isn't it?

Despicable is thinking "let them die" is a valid argument.

No. Despicable is saying that that is our argument when in reality it is not and in reality your argument is that you don't want to pay for deadbeats.

Republicans lost the Healthcare debate because they neither wanted to address the costs of things or subsidize the uninsured. They, like you are now, seemed to be indifferent to suffering. When you don't want to do anything about the problem it boils down to "let them die". As long as you are talking like you do not give shit about anyone but yourself how is anyone supposed to think there is an ounce of compassion anywhere in your argument?

 

[ding]

[

No. You are the one who wants everyone to pay for health insurance so that you don't have to pay for them. So, please don't pretend that you have some moral high ground because you care about people.

My position is we should stop misuing insurance to cover everything because in effect we are pre-paying for healthcare using a middleman which is stupid. My position is that we should have the choice how we pay for our healthcare. Those that can afford to pay as they go can. Those that can't can use Medicaid, which has a recovery feature in it to recoup those costs when and if the recipient ever gets any money. My position is that co-ops are much better way to go than insurance companies. The sooner we get those needless middlemen - who add zero value to health care - out of the way, the sooner we can bring down costs by working directly with the health care providers. So, if you want to pre-pay, the co-op is the way to go.

These Libtard Moon Bats are the greediest assholes in the country wanting somebody else to pay their bills.

They think they are entitled to other people money simply because they are alive. Despicable, isn't it?

Despicable is thinking "let them die" is a valid argument.

No. Despicable is saying that that is our argument when in reality it is not and in reality your argument is that you don't want to pay for deadbeats.

Republicans lost the Healthcare debate because they neither wanted to address the costs of things or subsidize the uninsured. They, like you are now, seemed to be indifferent to suffering. When you don't want to do anything about the problem it boils down to "let them die". As long as you are talking like you do not give shit about anyone but yourself how is anyone supposed to think there is an ounce of compassion anywhere in your argument?

Look, we are going in circles here. I have already explained to you that no one is going to die. Maybe yo have heard of Medicaid. I have also explained that you don't get to take the moral high ground because you don't care if they die, you only care that you don't have to pay for them. I have also explained how your love of pre-paying using insurance companies is flawed logic. Middle men don't add any value to your medical treatment. I have also explained how there is a valid cost basis for paying as you go. I have also explained that if you do want to pre-pay there are better alternatives that eliminate the middle men insurance companies. So what is it that you hope to gain by discussing this further? I am making you look like a fool.

 

[AntonToo]

Even Trump is 100% onboard with pre-existing conditions being covered.

No one is buying your rediculous bullshit.

[/thread]

 

[Flash]

[

Republicans lost the Healthcare debate because they neither wanted to address the costs of things or subsidize the uninsured. They, like you are now, seemed to be indifferent to suffering. When you don't want to do anything about the problem it boils down to "let them die". As long as you are talking like you do not give shit about anyone but yourself how is anyone supposed to think there is an ounce of compassion anywhere in your argument?

Republican didn't lose anything.

You may not have heard but they just won the House, Senate and Presidency and doing away with this filthy ass Obamacare has been their central theme every since 2010, when hundreds of Democrats were kicked out of office all across the nation. Again in 2014 and they did pretty damn good this year.

 

[Flash]

Even Trump is 100% onboard with pre-existing conditions being covered.

No one is buying your rediculous bullshit.

[/thread]

Trump has always been a big government Liberal. That is why I didn't vote for him.

Lets us just hope that Trump doesn't renege on everything else like it looks like he is reneging on Obamacare. If that is the case then we might as well have elected that stupid Crooked Hillary asshole and there will be no real change for the good.

 

[Harry Dresden]

And when will you realize that as long as they are required to cover pre-existing conditions, people will wait until they have a condition to sign up?

They can't do that now under Obamacare without paying a penalty, right?

Health Law Tax Penalty? I’ll Take It, Millions Say - The New York Times

How Much Is the Obamacare Penalty? What You'll Pay for Not Having Health Insurance

So what? They pay the penalty every year because it is cheaper than paying the premiums for a high deductible policy that will never pay out. They pay for the small stuff out of pocket and if they have any big stuff they sign up. It's called gaming the system. Besides, the system was designed to fail.

That's why we need single-payer, Medicare-for-all. We also need to get a grip on the pharmaceutical industry.

Big Pharma Is America's New Mafia

No, it's not. We don't need a single-payer, Medicare-for-all. We need to stop misusing insurance for things it was never intended to cover.

true, 40 years ago "medical insurance" was only to cover major health events-----hospital stays, accidents, major illnesses, etc. Not every day routine doctor visits or a Rx for an infection. You paid your own routine Doc visits and prescriptions.

The idea that insurance should pay ALL of your medical expenses is what caused this mess.

but back then doctor visits and prescriptions were affordable.....

 

[ding]

They can't do that now under Obamacare without paying a penalty, right?

Health Law Tax Penalty? I’ll Take It, Millions Say - The New York Times

How Much Is the Obamacare Penalty? What You'll Pay for Not Having Health Insurance

So what? They pay the penalty every year because it is cheaper than paying the premiums for a high deductible policy that will never pay out. They pay for the small stuff out of pocket and if they have any big stuff they sign up. It's called gaming the system. Besides, the system was designed to fail.

That's why we need single-payer, Medicare-for-all. We also need to get a grip on the pharmaceutical industry.

Big Pharma Is America's New Mafia

No, it's not. We don't need a single-payer, Medicare-for-all. We need to stop misusing insurance for things it was never intended to cover.

true, 40 years ago "medical insurance" was only to cover major health events-----hospital stays, accidents, major illnesses, etc. Not every day routine doctor visits or a Rx for an infection. You paid your own routine Doc visits and prescriptions.

The idea that insurance should pay ALL of your medical expenses is what caused this mess.

but back then doctor visits and prescriptions were affordable.....

Yes, and the reason that is no longer the case is because of pre-paying for all medical needs (i.e. the misuse of insurance).

 

[occupied]

[

Republicans lost the Healthcare debate because they neither wanted to address the costs of things or subsidize the uninsured. They, like you are now, seemed to be indifferent to suffering. When you don't want to do anything about the problem it boils down to "let them die". As long as you are talking like you do not give shit about anyone but yourself how is anyone supposed to think there is an ounce of compassion anywhere in your argument?

Republican didn't lose anything.

You may not have heard but they just won the House, Senate and Presidency and doing away with this filthy ass Obamacare has been their central theme every since 2010, when hundreds of Democrats were kicked out of office all across the nation. Again in 2014 and they did pretty damn good this year.

Republicans lost the healthcare debate because their position at the time was do nothing, everything is fine. Republicans now hold the presidency and congress but this time around they are not going to be able to use the same argument. If they are going to just repeal Obamacare (which I doubt) they will own the aftermath which will be pretty ugly. No, this time their position will have to be to replace it with something better, then they will own the aftermath of that as well.

 

[Flash]

[

Republicans lost the Healthcare debate because they neither wanted to address the costs of things or subsidize the uninsured. They, like you are now, seemed to be indifferent to suffering. When you don't want to do anything about the problem it boils down to "let them die". As long as you are talking like you do not give shit about anyone but yourself how is anyone supposed to think there is an ounce of compassion anywhere in your argument?

Republican didn't lose anything.

You may not have heard but they just won the House, Senate and Presidency and doing away with this filthy ass Obamacare has been their central theme every since 2010, when hundreds of Democrats were kicked out of office all across the nation. Again in 2014 and they did pretty damn good this year.

Republicans lost the healthcare debate because their position at the time was do nothing, everything is fine. Republicans now hold the presidency and congress but this time around they are not going to be able to use the same argument. If they are going to just repeal Obamacare (which I doubt) they will own the aftermath which will be pretty ugly. No, this time their position will have to be to replace it with something better, then they will own the aftermath of that as well.

You are confused Moon Bat.

They didn't lose anything. That filthy ass Obamacare was passed along party lines and this year The Republicans won two of the three branches of government based upon a platform to repeal Obamacare. They also gained significant seats in both 2010 and 2014 by opposing this shitty Democrat idea of subsidized insurance for the welfare queens. You know, greedy people like yourself that wants other people to pay your bills.

The cost of Obamacare is horrendous and that is one of the factors that led to Trump winning by running on a platform to real the stupid law.

Go check the election results.

 

[occupied]

[

Republicans lost the Healthcare debate because they neither wanted to address the costs of things or subsidize the uninsured. They, like you are now, seemed to be indifferent to suffering. When you don't want to do anything about the problem it boils down to "let them die". As long as you are talking like you do not give shit about anyone but yourself how is anyone supposed to think there is an ounce of compassion anywhere in your argument?

Republican didn't lose anything.

You may not have heard but they just won the House, Senate and Presidency and doing away with this filthy ass Obamacare has been their central theme every since 2010, when hundreds of Democrats were kicked out of office all across the nation. Again in 2014 and they did pretty damn good this year.

Republicans lost the healthcare debate because their position at the time was do nothing, everything is fine. Republicans now hold the presidency and congress but this time around they are not going to be able to use the same argument. If they are going to just repeal Obamacare (which I doubt) they will own the aftermath which will be pretty ugly. No, this time their position will have to be to replace it with something better, then they will own the aftermath of that as well.

You are confused Moon Bat.

They didn't lose anything. That filthy ass Obamacare was passed along party lines and this year The Republicans won two of the three branches of government based upon a platform to repeal Obamacare. They also gained significant seats in both 2010 and 2014 by opposing this shitty Democrat idea of subsidized insurance for the welfare queens. You know, greedy people like yourself that wants other people to pay your bills.

The cost of Obamacare is horrendous and that is one of the factors that led to Trump winning by running on a platform to real the stupid law.

Go check the election results.

Say something new for fuck's sake. It's funny how you keep on saying how you don't want to contribute to the health care system and finish up calling me greedy. The fact is that there is no way to avoid paying into the system either through taxation and/or premiums and republicans have no ideas or political will to cut these costs we all pay.

 

[Flash]

[

Say something new for fuck's sake. It's funny how you keep on saying how you don't want to contribute to the health care system and finish up calling me greedy. The fact is that there is no way to avoid paying into the system either through taxation and/or premiums and republicans have no ideas or political will to cut these costs we all pay.

Because you welfare queens are greedy. Any more stupid questions?

 

[occupied]

[

Say something new for fuck's sake. It's funny how you keep on saying how you don't want to contribute to the health care system and finish up calling me greedy. The fact is that there is no way to avoid paying into the system either through taxation and/or premiums and republicans have no ideas or political will to cut these costs we all pay.

Because you welfare queens are greedy. Any more stupid questions?

Nope, you have confirmed that the republican's newfound populism was all a sham. Now go kiss that billionaire ass like republicans always have done.

 

[Little-Acorn]

but back then doctor visits and prescriptions were affordable.....

Sure. Because back then, they didn't need three secretaries in each office to fill out all the paperwork guaranteeing the government that yes, they were practicing medicine correctly.

 

[Flash]

[

Nope, you have confirmed that the republican's newfound populism was all a sham. Now go kiss that billionaire ass like republicans always have done.

Tell the Republicans that now control The House, The Senate and The Presidency that their popularity is somehow a sham. They will laugh at you Moon Bat.

The billionaires are the ones that backed Crooked Hillary along with foreign countries. Everybody from Soros, to Steyer, to the Limousine Hollywood Libtards to the Wall St executives that gave Crooked Hillary $600K, for a stupid speech to the King of Saudi Arabia, just to mention a few.

I am sorry to be the one that informs you of this but most Americans thinks Obamacare sucks donkey dicks, especially with the recent rise in cost. Trump was elected to abolish it. The only people that really likes it are the greedy welfare queens getting the subsidies.

Live with it. We had to live with that asshole Obama passing the damn thing along party lines back when he had a majority of filthy ass Democrats in Congress. Karma is a bitch, isn't it?

 

[hazlnut]

It's more like a plain health care payment co-op or commune, where all money is put into a pool and doled out as needed.

Nothing wrong with that (well, see below), but you should call it what it is rather than pretend it's "insurance".

Insurance is something that protects against huge losses by, when a person incurs a huge loss, pays for it out of a pool of money all its customers have paid in. It signs in clients based on the idea that none of them have huge problems at present, but a few might incur them later. If they can restrict their new clientele to just people who presently have nothing wrong with them, their costs will be lower. And they can compete successfully for customers.

If, however, they are required to take in people who have a pre-existing condition, they must (a) charge the people with pre-existing conditions a much higher premium since they are guaranteed to need much higher payouts up front; or (b) charge EVERYONE higher premiums to cover the pre-existing conditions, leaving most of them wondering why their premiums went up so much when they didn't get any sicker. (Sound familiar, Obamacare subjects?). And in a competitive world, most people will opt for the companies with lower premiums: Those that don't accept people with pre-existing conditions.

Companies that don't accept people with pre-existing conditions, are the only ones that can compete or even survive in a normal world of sovereign citizens. Healthy people (that's most of them) will leave the companies that accept the pre-existing conditions, and go instead to those who don't, because they get the same service for less paid in premiums. That leaves the companies that accept pre-existing conditions, with ONLY the people who already have expensive maladies or injuries, and their costs will soar as they pay for high-priced care for ALL their remaining customers.

If a company accepts pre-existing conditions, it's not "insurance". It's simply a co-op for people with problems. No one else will want to be a part of it, and the companies know they CANNOT survive without those usually-healthy people.

If you want to set up a company that accepts pre-existing, fine, go ahead. But don't pretend it's "insurance". Nothing could be further from the truth.

So auto insurance for drivers with pre-existing age issues (teens/seniors) is not really insurance?


Not all business endeavors can be high-profit. Sorry. Study the history of health insurance in America and you'll see that they used to get by just fine covering anyone willing to pay.

Insurance by definition is pooling the money of many to cover the loss of a few.


If the GOP/Cons go back to being heartless pricks, that's good for the Dems.

Trump is playing the ACA modification fixing very smart.