if you were in that concert hall..would you want a gun...a poll

[ChrisL]

Yes, but you don't know anything about guns or shooting, do you?

Just enough.

Riddle me this -- poll question like the OP -- let's say you have a handgun, and you're pretty good with it, fast enough. You're walking near your house, armed, and you notice a plain-looking car screech to a halt, two guys you've never seen before jump out, start to pull guns and they're running toward you. There's no one else around or behind them.

You've got time to react. What do you do?

Who do you think you are, the Joker?

I doubt you know anything about guns. You are probably too frightened to hold one because you might shoot yourself!

Do the two men identify themselves as police officers, which is the LAW? Sorry, buddy, you aren't going to catch me in your trick questions.

No, nothing like that. Nor are they in a uniform or wearing badges. They're just .... guys who jumped out of an Oldsmobile. That's all you know. You have a moment to react. You're out in the open, not near a building, a bush, a car or anything.

What do you do?

That's fucking retarded. ARe they cops? If they are cops, they HAVE to identify themselves. That is where you are trying to go. Don't think you are fooling anyone or that you are a smarty pants.

So your answer is --- you freeze and do nothing.

Wasted your money on the gun then.

It's not the same scenario as given in the OP at ALL. Just because I wouldn't just haul off and shoot people in ALL situations, does not mean my gun wouldn't be a valuable self defense weapon at ANY time.

The more you try to argue your way out of the paper bag, the more wet and silly you look.

 

[ChrisL]

Who do you think you are, the Joker?

I doubt you know anything about guns. You are probably too frightened to hold one because you might shoot yourself!

Do the two men identify themselves as police officers, which is the LAW? Sorry, buddy, you aren't going to catch me in your trick questions.

No, nothing like that. Nor are they in a uniform or wearing badges. They're just .... guys who jumped out of an Oldsmobile. That's all you know. You have a moment to react. You're out in the open, not near a building, a bush, a car or anything.

What do you do?

That's fucking retarded. ARe they cops? If they are cops, they HAVE to identify themselves. That is where you are trying to go. Don't think you are fooling anyone or that you are a smarty pants.

So your answer is --- you freeze and do nothing.

Wasted your money on the gun then.

That is not the scenario. The scenario given is that in the concert hall in France. Stop trying to move the goal posts and make up silly scenarios to support your ridiculous position.

It's a surprise mass shooting, in reality, you don't get to choose the scenario.

The scenario is given in the OP, and the question asked in that scenario. You just know you sound stupid.

 

[westwall]

In the various places of the attacks in France...if you were there...and had the option...would you want to have had a concealed pistol...or would you have preferred to be unarmed....?

Unless you're gonna do a Jack Bauer move and flank the shooters up in the balcony, in this case, if was packing, it would have been useless. Sorry man -- it's just a different situation than a pizza hold-up or a break-in. I think smart gun folks know this is different.

Engaging the perps from the floor or the doors would just open you to a bullet when the police came storming in the chaos. No good to be carrying there at all..

BUT ---- now the soccer stadium is a bit different ---- because THERE -- the threat was Achmed's in suicide vests. And armed response is whole different story. Even if you sacrificed yourself in the exchange, you had a chance to stop the perp if you had the element of surprise and you were the only available force..

When they are shooting down into the crowd they are perfect targets for even a moderate shooter. Just sayin.

OK Jack Bauer.. I need to see your target scores with a sidearm from about 25 yards..

No problem. I regularly shoot my pistols out to 400 yards. 25 yards is so close and i have practiced enough i no longer need to aim. I point shoot out to around 40 yards and still score 10's. Granted, I shoot a lot. But in that situation they are highlighted and depending on your location you are in the dark. The light from the stage benefits the crowd in that situation.

Maybe I'll recalculate the odds a bit then..

You would be wise!

 

[westwall]

I think it is obvious that you probably don't know anything about guns or shootings. If the opportunity comes up, I would want to be armed to take the shot and save myself and maybe some others. If you want to cower and cry during your last moments, be my guest.

I find it interesting that you call it an "opportunity". Wonder why I find that eloquent...

Because you are a victim tard. To you there is no hope unless the government saves you. The second a bad guy turns his eyes away from you is the time to act. They are going to experience tunnel vision unless they are exceptionally well trained (highly doubtful, but certainly possible) so that gives you the chance to drop them. There's nothing heroic, you're not staring them down like in the movies, you're hopefully shooting them in the back when they aren't looking at you.

Where did I express a fucking word about "government"?

The fallacy quiver would seem to be bottomless.

As for "victim tard".....

Um, no sorry, you are the only one resorting to name calling here. That means, you are ready for a nap because you are too old to have an argument.

Off you go Junior.

Because you moron, if the INDIVIDUAL can't defend themselves who will do it? Superman? My gosh but you are truly stupid.

Where is that "law enforcement" definition of mass shooting that you should have fetched by now?

I posted that way back in post #169. Keep up slowpoke! STEEEEEEEEEEEE RIKE! THREE!

 

[HappyJoy]

A mass shooting is 4 or more people. Normally, they do NOT describe a massacre of a family by a family member as a "mass shooting." Have you ever heard them refer to that situation as a mass shooting?

Not true. Do you have a source for that?

We're Missing The Big Picture On Mass Shootings

"We found that in 57 percent of mass shootings, the shooter targeted either a family member or an intimate partner. "

 

[Pogo]

Just enough.

Riddle me this -- poll question like the OP -- let's say you have a handgun, and you're pretty good with it, fast enough. You're walking near your house, armed, and you notice a plain-looking car screech to a halt, two guys you've never seen before jump out, start to pull guns and they're running toward you. There's no one else around or behind them.

You've got time to react. What do you do?

Who do you think you are, the Joker?

I doubt you know anything about guns. You are probably too frightened to hold one because you might shoot yourself!

Do the two men identify themselves as police officers, which is the LAW? Sorry, buddy, you aren't going to catch me in your trick questions.

No, nothing like that. Nor are they in a uniform or wearing badges. They're just .... guys who jumped out of an Oldsmobile. That's all you know. You have a moment to react. You're out in the open, not near a building, a bush, a car or anything.

What do you do?

That's fucking retarded. ARe they cops? If they are cops, they HAVE to identify themselves. That is where you are trying to go. Don't think you are fooling anyone or that you are a smarty pants.

So your answer is --- you freeze and do nothing.

Wasted your money on the gun then.

It's not the same scenario as given in the OP at ALL. Just because I wouldn't just haul off and shoot people in ALL situations, does not mean my gun wouldn't be a valuable self defense weapon at ANY time.

The more you try to argue your way out of the paper bag, the more wet and silly you look.

I never said it was the "same scenario as the OP". If it were the same thing I wouldn't have had to DESCRIBE it -- would I ?


You're bailing out because I showed you where having a gun would have been detrimental, and that challenges your meme, and you can't handle having a meme challenged because it's more work.

 

[Yarddog]

yeah...better that only the killers have the guns..right? that worked out so well for the French....

Bending a terrorist attack into your own personal pet-peeve is horrendous enough. Predicting you know what would have happened if the theater was in Alabama is something else.

No one is bending anything you idiot. They were UNARMED and that IS a fact. MOST cops there are UNARMED and that IS a fact.
Would am ARMED DEFENDER still have died? Most likely BUT others MAY have lived BECAUSE of it.

Is this thread about conceal carry in public venues or arming police? They are completely separate things. Why don't you put that 214 IQ of yours to work and think before you post.

Police cannot be everywhere, and as a matter of fact, police are visible and can be taken out preemptively by terrorists. Im sad that you would be NOT willing to carry a gun, even to have saved someone else life in paris.
A lot of lives could have been saved by one or two armed civilians with cool heads. Im saddened by your low view of your fellow citizens

A lot of more lives could have been lost, it's a crapshoot.

The terrorists would have been preoccupied at least when they were fired upon, others could have escaped instead of being slaughtered one at a time with 100 percent absolutely no hope chance. they knew they were going to die, and they knew no one would come to save them as they were next. Your going to sit there high and mighty
like that? You may be a very wonderful person in every other way, but your position on this IS ridiculous

 

[ChrisL]

Where is that "law enforcement" definition of mass shooting that you should have fetched by now?

A mass shooting is 4 or more people. Normally, they do NOT describe a massacre of a family by a family member as a "mass shooting." Have you ever heard them refer to that situation as a mass shooting?

Not true. Do you have a source for that?

We're Missing The Big Picture On Mass Shootings

"We found that in 57 percent of mass shootings, the shooter targeted either a family member or an intimate partner. "

Have you ever heard the police refer to a "family/domestic incident" as a "mass shooting" when only family was killed, and how often have you heard of more than 4 family members being killed?

And what does this have to do with the OP question? Have you even answered the question yet?

 

[HappyJoy]

No, nothing like that. Nor are they in a uniform or wearing badges. They're just .... guys who jumped out of an Oldsmobile. That's all you know. You have a moment to react. You're out in the open, not near a building, a bush, a car or anything.

What do you do?

That's fucking retarded. ARe they cops? If they are cops, they HAVE to identify themselves. That is where you are trying to go. Don't think you are fooling anyone or that you are a smarty pants.

So your answer is --- you freeze and do nothing.

Wasted your money on the gun then.

That is not the scenario. The scenario given is that in the concert hall in France. Stop trying to move the goal posts and make up silly scenarios to support your ridiculous position.

It's a surprise mass shooting, in reality, you don't get to choose the scenario.

The scenario is given in the OP, and the question asked in that scenario. You just know you sound stupid.

I don't think the specific scenario makes much of a difference.

 

[westwall]

I think it is obvious that you probably don't know anything about guns or shootings. If the opportunity comes up, I would want to be armed to take the shot and save myself and maybe some others. If you want to cower and cry during your last moments, be my guest.

I find it interesting that you call it an "opportunity". Wonder why I find that eloquent...

Because you are a victim tard. To you there is no hope unless the government saves you. The second a bad guy turns his eyes away from you is the time to act. They are going to experience tunnel vision unless they are exceptionally well trained (highly doubtful, but certainly possible) so that gives you the chance to drop them. There's nothing heroic, you're not staring them down like in the movies, you're hopefully shooting them in the back when they aren't looking at you.

Where did I express a fucking word about "government"?

The fallacy quiver would seem to be bottomless.

As for "victim tard".....

Um, no sorry, you are the only one resorting to name calling here. That means, you are ready for a nap because you are too old to have an argument.

Off you go Junior.

Because you moron, if the INDIVIDUAL can't defend themselves who will do it? Superman? My gosh but you are truly stupid.

Yuh huh. So you pulled yet another ass-sumption out of your quiver. Or perhaps the other way around.

You tell me silly boy. If the person can't defend themselves, and Superman isn't rocketing in, who does that leave? Think hard....oh wait.......you can't do that.

 

[ChrisL]

Who do you think you are, the Joker?

I doubt you know anything about guns. You are probably too frightened to hold one because you might shoot yourself!

Do the two men identify themselves as police officers, which is the LAW? Sorry, buddy, you aren't going to catch me in your trick questions.

No, nothing like that. Nor are they in a uniform or wearing badges. They're just .... guys who jumped out of an Oldsmobile. That's all you know. You have a moment to react. You're out in the open, not near a building, a bush, a car or anything.

What do you do?

That's fucking retarded. ARe they cops? If they are cops, they HAVE to identify themselves. That is where you are trying to go. Don't think you are fooling anyone or that you are a smarty pants.

So your answer is --- you freeze and do nothing.

Wasted your money on the gun then.

It's not the same scenario as given in the OP at ALL. Just because I wouldn't just haul off and shoot people in ALL situations, does not mean my gun wouldn't be a valuable self defense weapon at ANY time.

The more you try to argue your way out of the paper bag, the more wet and silly you look.

I never said it was the "same scenario as the OP". If it were the same thing I wouldn't have had to DESCRIBE it -- would I ?

Well that is the scenario we are discussing here. Not your made up silliness. Stick to the thread topic. In the situation presented in the OP, I do in fact think I would have an opportunity, and when I did, I would use my weapon most definitely and without hesitation.

 

[HappyJoy]

Bending a terrorist attack into your own personal pet-peeve is horrendous enough. Predicting you know what would have happened if the theater was in Alabama is something else.

No one is bending anything you idiot. They were UNARMED and that IS a fact. MOST cops there are UNARMED and that IS a fact.
Would am ARMED DEFENDER still have died? Most likely BUT others MAY have lived BECAUSE of it.

Is this thread about conceal carry in public venues or arming police? They are completely separate things. Why don't you put that 214 IQ of yours to work and think before you post.

Police cannot be everywhere, and as a matter of fact, police are visible and can be taken out preemptively by terrorists. Im sad that you would be NOT willing to carry a gun, even to have saved someone else life in paris.
A lot of lives could have been saved by one or two armed civilians with cool heads. Im saddened by your low view of your fellow citizens

A lot of more lives could have been lost, it's a crapshoot.

The terrorists would have been preoccupied at least when they were fired upon, others could have escaped instead of being slaughtered one at a time with 100 percent absolutely no hope chance. they knew they were going to die, and they knew no one would come to save them as they were next. Your going to sit there high and mighty
like that? You may be a very wonderful person in every other way, but your position on this IS ridiculous

I'm sure it would have gone down exactly as you say. .

 

[westwall]

Yes, but you don't know anything about guns or shooting, do you?

Just enough.

Riddle me this -- poll question like the OP -- let's say you have a handgun, and you're pretty good with it, fast enough. You're walking near your house, armed, and you notice a plain-looking car screech to a halt, two guys you've never seen before jump out, start to pull guns and they're running toward you. There's no one else around or behind them.

You've got time to react. What do you do?

Who do you think you are, the Joker?

I doubt you know anything about guns. You are probably too frightened to hold one because you might shoot yourself!

Do the two men identify themselves as police officers, which is the LAW? Sorry, buddy, you aren't going to catch me in your trick questions.

No, nothing like that. Nor are they in a uniform or wearing badges. They're just .... guys who jumped out of an Oldsmobile. That's all you know. You have a moment to react. You're out in the open, not near a building, a bush, a car or anything.

What do you do?

That's fucking retarded. ARe they cops? If they are cops, they HAVE to identify themselves. That is where you are trying to go. Don't think you are fooling anyone or that you are a smarty pants.

So your answer is --- you freeze and do nothing. You took way too much time here.

Wasted your money on the gun then.

And btw your polyanna belief that "they have to identify themselves, therefore that's what happens in real life" would be cute if it weren't so tragically naïve. This is real life, not TV.

Yeah they were cops, and no they never identified themselves as such (I had to figure that out), and the point is if I had been packing and drew, then at least some of us would have gone down; and if I had NOT drawn and was frisked, I prolly would have been sent up for murder. For no other reason than that it would have been convenient for them.

Yay guns. What a brilliant idea that would have been.

Ummmm, no. That is YOUR solution dumb ass. We are going to shoot back. You're going to try and dig a hole in the cement floor and hope they don't see you. Good luck with that...

 

[ChrisL]

Bending a terrorist attack into your own personal pet-peeve is horrendous enough. Predicting you know what would have happened if the theater was in Alabama is something else.

No one is bending anything you idiot. They were UNARMED and that IS a fact. MOST cops there are UNARMED and that IS a fact.
Would am ARMED DEFENDER still have died? Most likely BUT others MAY have lived BECAUSE of it.

Is this thread about conceal carry in public venues or arming police? They are completely separate things. Why don't you put that 214 IQ of yours to work and think before you post.

Police cannot be everywhere, and as a matter of fact, police are visible and can be taken out preemptively by terrorists. Im sad that you would be NOT willing to carry a gun, even to have saved someone else life in paris.
A lot of lives could have been saved by one or two armed civilians with cool heads. Im saddened by your low view of your fellow citizens

A lot of more lives could have been lost, it's a crapshoot.

The terrorists would have been preoccupied at least when they were fired upon, others could have escaped instead of being slaughtered one at a time with 100 percent absolutely no hope chance. they knew they were going to die, and they knew no one would come to save them as they were next. Your going to sit there high and mighty
like that? You may be a very wonderful person in every other way, but your position on this IS ridiculous

You are so nice. So much nicer than me. I don't know how people can argue with some of these people and keep their cool. I want to rip out throats and poke out eyes, especially when it comes to my rights.

 

[Pogo]

No, nothing like that. Nor are they in a uniform or wearing badges. They're just .... guys who jumped out of an Oldsmobile. That's all you know. You have a moment to react. You're out in the open, not near a building, a bush, a car or anything.

What do you do?

That's fucking retarded. ARe they cops? If they are cops, they HAVE to identify themselves. That is where you are trying to go. Don't think you are fooling anyone or that you are a smarty pants.

So your answer is --- you freeze and do nothing.

Wasted your money on the gun then.

It's not the same scenario as given in the OP at ALL. Just because I wouldn't just haul off and shoot people in ALL situations, does not mean my gun wouldn't be a valuable self defense weapon at ANY time.

The more you try to argue your way out of the paper bag, the more wet and silly you look.

I never said it was the "same scenario as the OP". If it were the same thing I wouldn't have had to DESCRIBE it -- would I ?

Well that is the scenario we are discussing here. Not your made up silliness. Stick to the thread topic. In the situation presented in the OP, I do in fact think I would have an opportunity, and when I did, I would use my weapon most definitely and without hesitation.

Uh -- that's not made up. That's drawn from real life, and happened exactly as described. Again, these things happen in split-seconds. You don't get to put the comic book down, go get a milkshake and mull it over. It's in the NOW.

And those aspects are exactly cognate to the scenario in the OP.

Wassamatta? Meme not holding up?

 

[ChrisL]

You know, if I want to get a gun to protect myself and carry it with me, then why in the hell should anyone else's silly fears and paranoia play a role in MY right to protect myself?

 

[ChrisL]

That's fucking retarded. ARe they cops? If they are cops, they HAVE to identify themselves. That is where you are trying to go. Don't think you are fooling anyone or that you are a smarty pants.

So your answer is --- you freeze and do nothing.

Wasted your money on the gun then.

It's not the same scenario as given in the OP at ALL. Just because I wouldn't just haul off and shoot people in ALL situations, does not mean my gun wouldn't be a valuable self defense weapon at ANY time.

The more you try to argue your way out of the paper bag, the more wet and silly you look.

I never said it was the "same scenario as the OP". If it were the same thing I wouldn't have had to DESCRIBE it -- would I ?

Well that is the scenario we are discussing here. Not your made up silliness. Stick to the thread topic. In the situation presented in the OP, I do in fact think I would have an opportunity, and when I did, I would use my weapon most definitely and without hesitation.

Uh -- that's not made up. That's drawn from real life, and happened exactly as described. Again, these things happen in split-seconds. You don't get to put the comic book down, go get a milkshake and mull it over. It's in the NOW.

And those aspects are exactly cognate to the scenario in the OP.

Wassamatta? Meme not holding up?

Shut up. The REAL scenario and what actually took place is what the OP is referring to. You are just making crap up.

 

[HappyJoy]

You are so nice. So much nicer than me. I don't know how people can argue with some of these people and keep their cool. I want to rip out throats and poke out eyes, especially when it comes to my rights.

If this is all it takes to piss you off, don't carry.

 

[ChrisL]

That's fucking retarded. ARe they cops? If they are cops, they HAVE to identify themselves. That is where you are trying to go. Don't think you are fooling anyone or that you are a smarty pants.

So your answer is --- you freeze and do nothing.

Wasted your money on the gun then.

It's not the same scenario as given in the OP at ALL. Just because I wouldn't just haul off and shoot people in ALL situations, does not mean my gun wouldn't be a valuable self defense weapon at ANY time.

The more you try to argue your way out of the paper bag, the more wet and silly you look.

I never said it was the "same scenario as the OP". If it were the same thing I wouldn't have had to DESCRIBE it -- would I ?

Well that is the scenario we are discussing here. Not your made up silliness. Stick to the thread topic. In the situation presented in the OP, I do in fact think I would have an opportunity, and when I did, I would use my weapon most definitely and without hesitation.

Uh -- that's not made up. That's drawn from real life, and happened exactly as described. Again, these things happen in split-seconds. You don't get to put the comic book down, go get a milkshake and mull it over. It's in the NOW.

And those aspects are exactly cognate to the scenario in the OP.

Wassamatta? Meme not holding up?

That isn't drawn from real life, you idiot. The OP, however, IS an actual incident that just happened Friday night! What the hell is WRONG with you?

 

[flacaltenn]

Your answer is so stupid. I cannot even believe it.

It's an answer, not a fallacy like Bustball's endless drivel, and not a parroted meme like yours. Like it or lump it.

It's a bunch of partisan ideological bullshit is all it is. If you were personally in that situation, I can guarantee you would want a gun.

And I can guarantee you're dead wrong.

If I'd taken the advice of the gun nutter fetishists around here I'd have been dead by now, I can guarantee that too.

Yes, but you don't know anything about guns or shooting, do you?

Just enough.

Riddle me this -- poll question like the OP -- let's say you have a handgun, and you're pretty good with it, fast enough. You're walking near your house, armed, and you notice a plain-looking car screech to a halt, two guys you've never seen before jump out, start to pull guns and they're running toward you. There's no one else around or behind them.

You've got time to react. What do you do?

It's a bunch of partisan ideological bullshit is all it is. If you were personally in that situation, I can guarantee you would want a gun.

And I can guarantee you're dead wrong.

If I'd taken the advice of the gun nutter fetishists around here I'd have been dead by now, I can guarantee that too.

Yes, but you don't know anything about guns or shooting, do you?

Just enough.

Riddle me this -- poll question like the OP -- let's say you have a handgun, and you're pretty good with it, fast enough. You're walking near your house, armed, and you notice a plain-looking car screech to a halt, two guys you've never seen before jump out, start to pull guns and they're running toward you. There's no one else around or behind them.

You've got time to react. What do you do?

Who do you think you are, the Joker?

I doubt you know anything about guns. You are probably too frightened to hold one because you might shoot yourself!

Do the two men identify themselves as police officers, which is the LAW? Sorry, buddy, you aren't going to catch me in your trick questions.

No, nothing like that. Nor are they in a uniform or wearing badges. They're just .... guys who jumped out of an Oldsmobile. That's all you know. You have a moment to react. You're out in the open, not near a building, a bush, a car or anything.

What do you do?

If their guns are out -- I play along. If not -- mine will be there first. Assuming I don't hear them identify themselves.