Ignorant Homophobes fined $13,000 for refusing to host wedding

[Seawytch]

I am fan of scrapping most PA laws with the exception of essential and vital services. Transportation, lodging, gas stations, etc. Let these businesses shout from the roof tops which segments of society they deem unworthy to serve. When boycotts arise and a disgusted public takes their business elsewhere they'll have no one to blame but themselves when these businesses fold. Let free marker decide if these business practices are worthy of our duckets.

Getting rid of all of them should be the goal then. I don't see that happening, I just see special carve outs for people that really, really hate gays.

 

[martybegan]

Depends on the business. If they're open to the public, they have to serve the public.

But surely there are some exceptions, even there? Ejecting a rowdy drunk from a bar, "no shoes, no shirt, no service", jacket and tie dress codes, etc. Where does one draw the line? Especially when you consider religious freedom is protected by the Bill of Rights?

To me it's not an especially simple issue and I think both sides have valid cases to be made.

Where is the line drawn?

I would say the logical thing to understand is one right should not trump another. A gays "right to marriage" does not trump a persons "freedom of religion".

In such a conflict, they should go their separate ways, no harm, no foul.

Mark

Public accommodation laws, which have been around since the 60s, disagree.

When ‘Religious Liberty’ Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia

I guess only a moron would force an establishment to provide a 'service'. You'll get what you pay for. But I get it, everyone want to be the next Rosa Parks and all, but why not take your business somewhere else? Why force someone to take your money? I don't get it

-Geaux

And I'm sure you've been railing against Public Accommodations since people were "forced" to serve blacks since the 1960s, right?

I never heard too much about the "injustice" and "tyranny" of PA laws...until about five to ten years ago when they began to ALSO protect gays in some places on equal footing with race, religion, etc. Funny that.

1. Most blacks don't feel the need to go to wedding businesses that cater to white people, just like most white people don't go to wedding businesses that cater to black people.

2. Blacks are far less litigious than homosexuals it appears.

3. Most of the PA prosecutions done by blacks were for essential services, not for cakes, wedding halls, etc.

 

[80zephyr]

Depends on the business. If they're open to the public, they have to serve the public.

But surely there are some exceptions, even there? Ejecting a rowdy drunk from a bar, "no shoes, no shirt, no service", jacket and tie dress codes, etc. Where does one draw the line? Especially when you consider religious freedom is protected by the Bill of Rights?

To me it's not an especially simple issue and I think both sides have valid cases to be made.

Where is the line drawn?

I would say the logical thing to understand is one right should not trump another. A gays "right to marriage" does not trump a persons "freedom of religion".

In such a conflict, they should go their separate ways, no harm, no foul.

Mark

Public accommodation laws, which have been around since the 60s, disagree.

When ‘Religious Liberty’ Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia

This time its different. Homosexuality is a sin, according to the bible. Being "black" wasn't.

Mark

Um...interracial marriage was certainly considered a sin and people used the bible to justify both slavery and bans on interracial marriage.

I wonder if the business in the OP also tries to keep divorced people or fat people from having weddings. Aren't those "sins"?

I don't know of any reference to interracial marriage in the bible, do you? I do know that homosexual sex is in it.

Is it a sin to be divorced? Yes. There is a difference, however. Gay marriage is celebrating the sin of homosexuality. It is not contrition or regret, it is acknowledging the fact that you are a sinner, and intend to stay that way.

Mark

 

[mdk]

New York added sexual orientation to their state's public accommodation law in 2002. This law has nothing to do with Obama, Bush, or any other President for that matter.

 

[bodecea]

Every time we had a gay/lesbso wedding at my job, I called out. It was worth the $300+ loss in tips + wage, even when I was on hard times.

Since 4-5 of us would call out, the other waiters would go home feigning illness from being overworked. Good shit.

The sexual degenerates were known to touch and look at the male waiters (and flirt a lot). No real man can tolerate such an insult to his character, his sacred honor, his soul.

You do realize that straight men treat women that way often.

It always cracks women up to hear men complain about being treated as sexual objects.

 

[DriftingSand]

NY Farm That Refused To Host Lesbian Wedding Fined $13,000

Liberty Ridge Farm's owners, citing constitutional rights to free speech and religious freedom, have appealed the August ruling by the Division of Human Rights that they violated state anti-discrimination law.

Their attorney said Robert and Cynthia Gifford paid the $10,000 state civil penalty and $1,500 each to Melisa and Jennie McCarthy, whose 2013 wedding they declined to host. The Giffords testified last year that in their Christian beliefs, marriage is between a man and a woman, and the ceremonies are held at their home, a private space where their own rights should be determinate.

Good!

We hurt them in the pocketbook and we shame them in the media.

There is a dark and twisted version of Christianity being practiced in the U.S. They throw love and tolerance over for fear and ignorance, clinging to one archaic hebrew tribal law.

Glad the property owners stood their moral ground. If there's a fund where folks can help them pay that unconstitutional fine then I'd gladly support them. Hope they appeal the sick ruling and sue for harassment.

 

[Esmeralda]

The problem is that if we allow people to say they won't do business with gays because they don't agree with their lifestyle, that leaves the door open to not doing business with people because of race, age, gender, religion, ethnicity, nationality, etc. It will create an apartheid nation, sanctioned by the government. That's unacceptable.

Point taken, but at the same time, shouldn't business owners be allowed to do business with whom they choose to some extent? And if so to what extent?

Depends on the business. If they're open to the public, they have to serve the public. 'We don't serve your kind here' isn't generally accepted as legally valid reasoning.

Can you show me where in the Constitution it states that?

Thanks.

Mark

Why would it have to say that, precisely, in the Constitution? Do you have any idea how the Constitution works?

I do find freedom of religion as a principle tenet in it. But, I don't find anything at all written by the founders to exclude anyone from being in business if they have religious beliefs that they follow.

Mark

 

[Seawytch]

But surely there are some exceptions, even there? Ejecting a rowdy drunk from a bar, "no shoes, no shirt, no service", jacket and tie dress codes, etc. Where does one draw the line? Especially when you consider religious freedom is protected by the Bill of Rights?

To me it's not an especially simple issue and I think both sides have valid cases to be made.

Where is the line drawn?

I would say the logical thing to understand is one right should not trump another. A gays "right to marriage" does not trump a persons "freedom of religion".

In such a conflict, they should go their separate ways, no harm, no foul.

Mark

Public accommodation laws, which have been around since the 60s, disagree.

When ‘Religious Liberty’ Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia

I guess only a moron would force an establishment to provide a 'service'. You'll get what you pay for. But I get it, everyone want to be the next Rosa Parks and all, but why not take your business somewhere else? Why force someone to take your money? I don't get it

-Geaux

And I'm sure you've been railing against Public Accommodations since people were "forced" to serve blacks since the 1960s, right?

I never heard too much about the "injustice" and "tyranny" of PA laws...until about five to ten years ago when they began to ALSO protect gays in some places on equal footing with race, religion, etc. Funny that.

OK- But what about my question? What is your educated 'guess' as to why someone would just simply not take their business elsewhere? My guess is they are paid shills to bring their 'plight' to the forefront.

If they really wanted what they protest, they would of succeeded already elsewhere

-Geaux

Ask the Civil Rights Act that protects race, religion, country of origin, etc. You're asking why we have PA laws. I'm sure you can find the answer if you try really, really hard.

 

[Seawytch]

But surely there are some exceptions, even there? Ejecting a rowdy drunk from a bar, "no shoes, no shirt, no service", jacket and tie dress codes, etc. Where does one draw the line? Especially when you consider religious freedom is protected by the Bill of Rights?

To me it's not an especially simple issue and I think both sides have valid cases to be made.

Where is the line drawn?

I would say the logical thing to understand is one right should not trump another. A gays "right to marriage" does not trump a persons "freedom of religion".

In such a conflict, they should go their separate ways, no harm, no foul.

Mark

Public accommodation laws, which have been around since the 60s, disagree.

When ‘Religious Liberty’ Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia

This time its different. Homosexuality is a sin, according to the bible. Being "black" wasn't.

Mark

Um...interracial marriage was certainly considered a sin and people used the bible to justify both slavery and bans on interracial marriage.

I wonder if the business in the OP also tries to keep divorced people or fat people from having weddings. Aren't those "sins"?

I don't know of any reference to interracial marriage in the bible, do you? I do know that homosexual sex is in it.

Is it a sin to be divorced? Yes. There is a difference, however. Gay marriage is celebrating the sin of homosexuality. It is not contrition or regret, it is acknowledging the fact that you are a sinner, and intend to stay that way.

Mark

You don't get that the people that used the bible believed it was there, it doesn't matter if YOU believe it's there. They were as certain of their justification as you are. Did you know that plenty of people don't believe the bible to be as homophobic as you believe it to be?

Is it a sin to be divorced? Are you fucking kidding?

 

[bodecea]

So many homosexuals are so angry and hateful about being homosexuals, they know what their doing is fucked up.

What sucks is how so many of them like to torture others with their tortured "lifestyle"

Tell us more about what homosexuals think and feel.

 

[mdk]

I am fan of scrapping most PA laws with the exception of essential and vital services. Transportation, lodging, gas stations, etc. Let these businesses shout from the roof tops which segments of society they deem unworthy to serve. When boycotts arise and a disgusted public takes their business elsewhere they'll have no one to blame but themselves when these businesses fold. Let free marker decide if these business practices are worthy of our duckets.

Getting rid of all of them should be the goal then. I don't see that happening, I just see special carve outs for people that really, really hate gays.

It should be the ultimate goal. Sadly, I am not seeing a strong push to do away with these laws though. Far too many want to have their gay wedding cake and eat it too.

 

[bodecea]

Then those businesses will go belly up, won't they? Its none of the governments business. FORCING someone to accept something they frown on is unacceptable as well. Can farmers be sued if some schmuck tells them they want to buy their sheep for sex? Is that next?

No...that happened right after businesses had to serve interracial couples.

 

[mudwhistle]

Any gay couple got the balls to ask to get married in a Mosque? I haven't heard of one lesbian or homosexual couple demanding to be married in a Mosque.

Any one?

A mosque is a religious place of worship which is exempt from public accommodation laws.

No church has ever been forced to perform a wedding that goes against the tenants of their faith. Churches were never forced to perform marriages for interracial couples but they certainly do have public accommodation protections. Do you resent those?

Nope. I just wouldn't be a member in a church I'm not welcome in.

Simple as that.

 

[80zephyr]

New York added sexual orientation to their state's public accommodation law in 2002. This law has nothing to do with Obama, Bush, or any other President for that matter.

And this has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. If a gay wants to buy a cake, fine. But, if a gay wants to buy a wedding cake, that's different.

Sexual orientation now becomes a possible religious belief infringement.

Mark

 

[Freewill]

Every time we had a gay/lesbso wedding at my job, I called out. It was worth the $300+ loss in tips + wage, even when I was on hard times.

Since 4-5 of us would call out, the other waiters would go home feigning illness from being overworked. Good shit.

The sexual degenerates were known to touch and look at the male waiters (and flirt a lot). No real man can tolerate such an insult to his character, his sacred honor, his soul.

You do realize that straight men treat women that way often.

It always cracks women up to hear men complain about being treated as sexual objects.

I have not seen a lot of liberal women who would have that problem.

 

[80zephyr]

I would say the logical thing to understand is one right should not trump another. A gays "right to marriage" does not trump a persons "freedom of religion".

In such a conflict, they should go their separate ways, no harm, no foul.

Mark

Public accommodation laws, which have been around since the 60s, disagree.

When ‘Religious Liberty’ Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia

I guess only a moron would force an establishment to provide a 'service'. You'll get what you pay for. But I get it, everyone want to be the next Rosa Parks and all, but why not take your business somewhere else? Why force someone to take your money? I don't get it

-Geaux

And I'm sure you've been railing against Public Accommodations since people were "forced" to serve blacks since the 1960s, right?

I never heard too much about the "injustice" and "tyranny" of PA laws...until about five to ten years ago when they began to ALSO protect gays in some places on equal footing with race, religion, etc. Funny that.

OK- But what about my question? What is your educated 'guess' as to why someone would just simply not take their business elsewhere? My guess is they are paid shills to bring their 'plight' to the forefront.

If they really wanted what they protest, they would of succeeded already elsewhere

-Geaux

Ask the Civil Rights Act that protects race, religion, country of origin, etc. You're asking why we have PA laws. I'm sure you can find the answer if you try really, really hard.

If the Civil Rights Act protects religion, then forcing someone to act in defiance of their religion is breaking the law, is it not?

Mark

 

[bodecea]

NY Farm That Refused To Host Lesbian Wedding Fined $13,000

Liberty Ridge Farm's owners, citing constitutional rights to free speech and religious freedom, have appealed the August ruling by the Division of Human Rights that they violated state anti-discrimination law.

Their attorney said Robert and Cynthia Gifford paid the $10,000 state civil penalty and $1,500 each to Melisa and Jennie McCarthy, whose 2013 wedding they declined to host. The Giffords testified last year that in their Christian beliefs, marriage is between a man and a woman, and the ceremonies are held at their home, a private space where their own rights should be determinate.

Good!

We hurt them in the pocketbook and we shame them in the media.

There is a dark and twisted version of Christianity being practiced in the U.S. They throw love and tolerance over for fear and ignorance, clinging to one archaic hebrew tribal law.

I guess this isn't a free country anymore.

Now you know why you Democrats lost in the election, and it will only keep getting worse for you. I understand and accept those who practice the gay lifestyle. I figure it's none of my business, but now you want to literally cram it down our throats, and there is where you have gone off the rails.

I'm trying to see where the dark and twisted comment comes from. In fact, you're turning what is moral into something dark and twisted, essentially criminalizing religion. Why do you even bother with marriage in the first place, because if it's based on religious vows according to you it's dark and twisted.

To be honest, any church that conducts gay-marriages is practically throwing their doctrine out the window and encouraging sinful lifestyles. Being forced to do so is strictly against the Constitution. Congress cannot make any laws against the free expression of religion, so you folks do it at the local level. These rights are guaranteed under the Constitution and as long as this country follows the constitution, no oppressive local government can withstand any challenge to these abuses. It's just a matter of taking it to the Supreme Court to rectify this travesty. Unfortunately it will take time.

My solution to this is for you to take your marriage requests to someone who supports your lifestyle and stop stepping all over everyone else in the process.

Why does this imagery seem to be the fav of those so-called "against gay marriage" people?

 

[BlackSand]

NY Farm That Refused To Host Lesbian Wedding Fined $13,000

Liberty Ridge Farm's owners, citing constitutional rights to free speech and religious freedom, have appealed the August ruling by the Division of Human Rights that they violated state anti-discrimination law.

Their attorney said Robert and Cynthia Gifford paid the $10,000 state civil penalty and $1,500 each to Melisa and Jennie McCarthy, whose 2013 wedding they declined to host. The Giffords testified last year that in their Christian beliefs, marriage is between a man and a woman, and the ceremonies are held at their home, a private space where their own rights should be determinate.

Good!

We hurt them in the pocketbook and we shame them in the media.

There is a dark and twisted version of Christianity being practiced in the U.S. They throw love and tolerance over for fear and ignorance, clinging to one archaic hebrew tribal law.

I guess this isn't a free country anymore.

Now you know why you Democrats lost in the election, and it will only keep getting worse for you. I understand and accept those who practice the gay lifestyle. I figure it's none of my business, but now you want to literally cram it down our throats, and there is where you have gone off the rails.

I'm trying to see where the dark and twisted comment comes from. In fact, you're turning what is moral into something dark and twisted, essentially criminalizing religion. Why do you even bother with marriage in the first place, because if it's based on religious vows according to you it's dark and twisted.

To be honest, any church that conducts gay-marriages is practically throwing their doctrine out the window and encouraging sinful lifestyles. Being forced to do so is strictly against the Constitution. Congress cannot make any laws against the free expression of religion, so you folks do it at the local level. These rights are guaranteed under the Constitution and as long as this country follows the constitution, no oppressive local government can withstand any challenge to these abuses. It's just a matter of taking it to the Supreme Court to rectify this travesty. Unfortunately it will take time.

My solution to this is for you to take your marriage requests to someone who supports your lifestyle and stop stepping all over everyone else in the process.

Apparently, to Progressive Liberals the separation of church and state only applies to prayer or religious display when it suits their nefarious agenda.

.

 

[bodecea]

Every time we had a gay/lesbso wedding at my job, I called out. It was worth the $300+ loss in tips + wage, even when I was on hard times.

Since 4-5 of us would call out, the other waiters would go home feigning illness from being overworked. Good shit.

The sexual degenerates were known to touch and look at the male waiters (and flirt a lot). No real man can tolerate such an insult to his character, his sacred honor, his soul.

You do realize that straight men treat women that way often.

It always cracks women up to hear men complain about being treated as sexual objects.

I have not seen a lot of liberal women who would have that problem.

Oh?

 

[mudwhistle]

Depends on the business. If they're open to the public, they have to serve the public.

But surely there are some exceptions, even there? Ejecting a rowdy drunk from a bar, "no shoes, no shirt, no service", jacket and tie dress codes, etc. Where does one draw the line? Especially when you consider religious freedom is protected by the Bill of Rights?

To me it's not an especially simple issue and I think both sides have valid cases to be made.

Where is the line drawn?

I would say the logical thing to understand is one right should not trump another. A gays "right to marriage" does not trump a persons "freedom of religion".

In such a conflict, they should go their separate ways, no harm, no foul.

Mark

Public accommodation laws, which have been around since the 60s, disagree.

When ‘Religious Liberty’ Was Used To Justify Racism Instead Of Homophobia

I guess only a moron would force an establishment to provide a 'service'. You'll get what you pay for. But I get it, everyone want to be the next Rosa Parks and all, but why not take your business somewhere else? Why force someone to take your money? I don't get it

-Geaux

And I'm sure you've been railing against Public Accommodations since people were "forced" to serve blacks since the 1960s, right?

I never heard too much about the "injustice" and "tyranny" of PA laws...until about five to ten years ago when they began to ALSO protect gays in some places on equal footing with race, religion, etc. Funny that.

Well, I was in first grade in 1960, so owning a business was a bit difficult. I was just learning how to write the alphabet in longhand.