Ignorant Homophobes fined $13,000 for refusing to host wedding

[mdk]

New York added sexual orientation to their state's public accommodation law in 2002. This law has nothing to do with Obama, Bush, or any other President for that matter.

And this has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. If a gay wants to buy a cake, fine. But, if a gay wants to buy a wedding cake, that's different.

Sexual orientation now becomes a possible religious belief infringement.

Mark

Of course it does. A business that sells wedding cakes to the public in a state that covers gays in their PA laws can't refuse to do business with them as a result. Whether you agree with those laws or not seems to be the debate. Muslim cabbies in Minnesota didn't want to violate their religious beliefs by carting around fares that carried booze, drunks, or dogs. When they were ordered to do so regardless of their beliefs it was cheered as a fight against creeping Sharia. When another religion tries the same approach they get cheered as standing up for their religious beliefs. Why is that? Seems a dash hypocritical.

Either way, I think these laws should go away almost entirely. Let the free market decide if the practices of these businesses should be rewarded or not.

With a cab that is a spot transaction in the furtherance of travel. At an airport it can likely be interstate travel. Also one could reasonably expect the cab to have to list who it would not transport in clear print on said cab.

It still doesn't equate to forcing someone to either host or do something for your wedding.

The PA laws in their current form do not make that distinction though. If you provide a public service then you have to provide that service to all those that covered under their state's respective PA laws. I think these laws have outlived their usefulness and should repealed with the exemptions of those services I mentioned and you mentioned above.

Or you just limit them to actual "public accommodations" and not every business out there that advertises.

A public accomodation is a restaurant, or a hotel, or a grocery store, not a chapel, or a contract baker, or a photographer that goes to your event.

I agree with you but that is not the way the law is written though.

 

[mudwhistle]

New York added sexual orientation to their state's public accommodation law in 2002. This law has nothing to do with Obama, Bush, or any other President for that matter.

And this has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. If a gay wants to buy a cake, fine. But, if a gay wants to buy a wedding cake, that's different.

Sexual orientation now becomes a possible religious belief infringement.

Mark

Of course it does. A business that sells wedding cakes to the public in a state that covers gays in their PA laws can't refuse to do business with them as a result. Whether you agree with those laws or not seems to be the debate. Muslim cabbies in Minnesota didn't want to violate their religious beliefs by carting around fares that carried booze, drunks, or dogs. When they were ordered to do so regardless of their beliefs it was cheered as a fight against creeping Sharia. When another religion tries the same approach they get cheered as standing up for their religious beliefs. Why is that? Seems a dash hypocritical.

Either way, I think these laws should go away almost entirely. Let the free market decide if the practices of these businesses should be rewarded or not.

You can pass any law you choose. This is why liberals like stacking the courts, so they can uphold laws that are unconstitutional.

The courts have been upholding PA laws for many decades now. I believe PA laws to be unconstitutional as well but I am not seeing a large push to scrap these laws. Admittedly, it is not a very popular stance to hold.

Not every PA law is bad. Besides, who in PA has the money to fight the state? Most of the targets are small business. They can't. Doesn't mean the state is untouchable.

 

[bodecea]

And I'm sure you've been railing against Public Accommodations since people were "forced" to serve blacks since the 1960s, right?

I never heard too much about the "injustice" and "tyranny" of PA laws...until about five to ten years ago when they began to ALSO protect gays in some places on equal footing with race, religion, etc. Funny that.

OK- But what about my question? What is your educated 'guess' as to why someone would just simply not take their business elsewhere? My guess is they are paid shills to bring their 'plight' to the forefront.

If they really wanted what they protest, they would of succeeded already elsewhere

-Geaux

Ask the Civil Rights Act that protects race, religion, country of origin, etc. You're asking why we have PA laws. I'm sure you can find the answer if you try really, really hard.

If the Civil Rights Act protects religion, then forcing someone to act in defiance of their religion is breaking the law, is it not?

Mark

Yes...if someone of a certain religion seeks to be served in a business and that business refuses them, that business can be fined. You need to brush up on the DIFFERENCE between the rights of a business vs. the rights of a customer.

The right to freedom or religion recognizes that all people have the same right to it. The rights of a customer does not trump the rights of the business owner, nor should they.

Mark

So...Woolworth's had the right to refuse service to black customers at their lunch counters?

 

[mudwhistle]

I see a pattern.

Liberals have a dedicated voting base in PA. Generations of Democrats that have better things to do than pay attention to politics. Former steelworkers collecting their pensions or their social security, never questioning the restrictions slowly being placed on them. All they want is a check and a cold beer when they get home. Keep em stupid and complacent.

 

[mudwhistle]

OK- But what about my question? What is your educated 'guess' as to why someone would just simply not take their business elsewhere? My guess is they are paid shills to bring their 'plight' to the forefront.

If they really wanted what they protest, they would of succeeded already elsewhere

-Geaux

Ask the Civil Rights Act that protects race, religion, country of origin, etc. You're asking why we have PA laws. I'm sure you can find the answer if you try really, really hard.

If the Civil Rights Act protects religion, then forcing someone to act in defiance of their religion is breaking the law, is it not?

Mark

Yes...if someone of a certain religion seeks to be served in a business and that business refuses them, that business can be fined. You need to brush up on the DIFFERENCE between the rights of a business vs. the rights of a customer.

The right to freedom or religion recognizes that all people have the same right to it. The rights of a customer does not trump the rights of the business owner, nor should they.

Mark

So...Woolworth's had the right to refuse service to black customers at their lunch counters?

When it comes to the constitution, no.

But show me in the Bible where it says blacks can't be served.

 

[BlackSand]

So...Woolworth's had the right to refuse service to black customers at their lunch counters?

So ... Woolworth's refused to marry same sex black couples at their lunch counter?

.

 

[mdk]

New York added sexual orientation to their state's public accommodation law in 2002. This law has nothing to do with Obama, Bush, or any other President for that matter.

And this has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation. If a gay wants to buy a cake, fine. But, if a gay wants to buy a wedding cake, that's different.

Sexual orientation now becomes a possible religious belief infringement.

Mark

Of course it does. A business that sells wedding cakes to the public in a state that covers gays in their PA laws can't refuse to do business with them as a result. Whether you agree with those laws or not seems to be the debate. Muslim cabbies in Minnesota didn't want to violate their religious beliefs by carting around fares that carried booze, drunks, or dogs. When they were ordered to do so regardless of their beliefs it was cheered as a fight against creeping Sharia. When another religion tries the same approach they get cheered as standing up for their religious beliefs. Why is that? Seems a dash hypocritical.

Either way, I think these laws should go away almost entirely. Let the free market decide if the practices of these businesses should be rewarded or not.

You can pass any law you choose. This is why liberals like stacking the courts, so they can uphold laws that are unconstitutional.

The courts have been upholding PA laws for many decades now. I believe PA laws to be unconstitutional as well but I am not seeing a large push to scrap these laws. Admittedly, it is not a very popular stance to hold.

Not every PA law is bad. Besides, who in PA has the money to fight the state? Most of the targets are small business. They can't. Doesn't mean the state is untouchable.

By PA I mean public accommodation laws and not the glorious and wonderful Commonwealth. Sorry about the confusion.

 

[mudwhistle]

Even gays discriminate. Transgender folks were treated like poor stepchildren in some circles in the gay community. Pedophilia is not acceptable. Bestiality. Necrophilia. The list goes on and on. They're just as full of bigotry as anyone.

 

[Seawytch]

Any gay couple got the balls to ask to get married in a Mosque? I haven't heard of one lesbian or homosexual couple demanding to be married in a Mosque.

Any one?

A mosque is a religious place of worship which is exempt from public accommodation laws.

No church has ever been forced to perform a wedding that goes against the tenants of their faith. Churches were never forced to perform marriages for interracial couples but they certainly do have public accommodation protections. Do you resent those?

Nope. I just wouldn't be a member in a church I'm not welcome in.

Simple as that.

That has what to do with what? Churches are not subject to PA laws. Non sequitur much?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The only time you see conservatives go this mental over an issue such as this is when you see some protest against a conservative speaking at a university,

then all of the sudden the RWnuts throw a fit over the idea that the university might have the right to choose not to bring that person on campus.

lol

 

[bodecea]

Ask the Civil Rights Act that protects race, religion, country of origin, etc. You're asking why we have PA laws. I'm sure you can find the answer if you try really, really hard.

If the Civil Rights Act protects religion, then forcing someone to act in defiance of their religion is breaking the law, is it not?

Mark

Yes...if someone of a certain religion seeks to be served in a business and that business refuses them, that business can be fined. You need to brush up on the DIFFERENCE between the rights of a business vs. the rights of a customer.

The right to freedom or religion recognizes that all people have the same right to it. The rights of a customer does not trump the rights of the business owner, nor should they.

Mark

So...Woolworth's had the right to refuse service to black customers at their lunch counters?

When it comes to the constitution, no.

But show me in the Bible where it says blacks can't be served.

It's probably in the same verse where it says gays can't be served.

 

[bodecea]

So...Woolworth's had the right to refuse service to black customers at their lunch counters?

So ... Woolworth's refused to marry same sex black couples at their lunch counter?

.

Um...did you actually, really read my post?

 

[bodecea]

Even gays discriminate. Transgender folks were treated like poor stepchildren in some circles in the gay community.

That doesn't make it right....not really sure what you think that proves.

Pedophilia is not acceptable. Bestiality. Necrophilia. The list goes on and on. They're just as full of bigotry as anyone.

Ah...there it is.

 

[martybegan]

The only time you see conservatives go this mental over an issue such as this is when you see some protest against a conservative speaking at a university,

then all of the sudden the RWnuts throw a fit over the idea that the university might have the right to choose not to bring that person on campus.

lol

1st, its often student groups that try to bring a speaker onsite, only to be threatened by other student groups. The schools knuckle under to the progressives under the threat of violence.

It seems only conservative speakers have this issue. Can you find a progressive speaker on a campus that has cancelled because a conservative group threatened to disrupt their speech?

 

[martybegan]

Any gay couple got the balls to ask to get married in a Mosque? I haven't heard of one lesbian or homosexual couple demanding to be married in a Mosque.

Any one?

A mosque is a religious place of worship which is exempt from public accommodation laws.

No church has ever been forced to perform a wedding that goes against the tenants of their faith. Churches were never forced to perform marriages for interracial couples but they certainly do have public accommodation protections. Do you resent those?

Nope. I just wouldn't be a member in a church I'm not welcome in.

Simple as that.

That has what to do with what? Churches are not subject to PA laws. Non sequitur much?

Yet. you are going after the low hanging fruit first.

 

[80zephyr]

OK- But what about my question? What is your educated 'guess' as to why someone would just simply not take their business elsewhere? My guess is they are paid shills to bring their 'plight' to the forefront.

If they really wanted what they protest, they would of succeeded already elsewhere

-Geaux

Ask the Civil Rights Act that protects race, religion, country of origin, etc. You're asking why we have PA laws. I'm sure you can find the answer if you try really, really hard.

If the Civil Rights Act protects religion, then forcing someone to act in defiance of their religion is breaking the law, is it not?

Mark

Yes...if someone of a certain religion seeks to be served in a business and that business refuses them, that business can be fined. You need to brush up on the DIFFERENCE between the rights of a business vs. the rights of a customer.

The right to freedom or religion recognizes that all people have the same right to it. The rights of a customer does not trump the rights of the business owner, nor should they.

Mark

So...Woolworth's had the right to refuse service to black customers at their lunch counters?

Nope. Not even close to what I said.

Mark

 

[martybegan]

Even gays discriminate. Transgender folks were treated like poor stepchildren in some circles in the gay community. Pedophilia is not acceptable. Bestiality. Necrophilia. The list goes on and on. They're just as full of bigotry as anyone.

For example:

The Dispute Between Radical Feminism and Transgenderism

Having rejected this supposition, radical feminists now find themselves in a position that few would have imagined when the conflict began: shunned as reactionaries on the wrong side of a sexual-rights issue. It is, to them, a baffling political inversion.

 

[bodecea]

Any gay couple got the balls to ask to get married in a Mosque? I haven't heard of one lesbian or homosexual couple demanding to be married in a Mosque.

Any one?

A mosque is a religious place of worship which is exempt from public accommodation laws.

No church has ever been forced to perform a wedding that goes against the tenants of their faith. Churches were never forced to perform marriages for interracial couples but they certainly do have public accommodation protections. Do you resent those?

Nope. I just wouldn't be a member in a church I'm not welcome in.

Simple as that.

That has what to do with what? Churches are not subject to PA laws. Non sequitur much?

Yet. you are going after the low hanging fruit first.

Just like minorities eventually went after churches for refusing to marry interracial couples or interfaith couples or previously divorced couples.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The only time you see conservatives go this mental over an issue such as this is when you see some protest against a conservative speaking at a university,

then all of the sudden the RWnuts throw a fit over the idea that the university might have the right to choose not to bring that person on campus.

lol

1st, its often student groups that try to bring a speaker onsite, only to be threatened by other student groups. The schools knuckle under to the progressives under the threat of violence.

It seems only conservative speakers have this issue. Can you find a progressive speaker on a campus that has cancelled because a conservative group threatened to disrupt their speech?

Bullshit.

 

[BlackSand]

So...Woolworth's had the right to refuse service to black customers at their lunch counters?

So ... Woolworth's refused to marry same sex black couples at their lunch counter?

.

Um...did you actually, really read my post?

Did your post have anything to do with blacks at Woolworth's lunch counter?

.