Illinois governor strikes blow for taxapyers...q

[Skull Pilot]

NO, if the government didn't do that, you'd have catastrophic crashes like we had in 1929.

We had a crash because the government wasn't watching the store.

That has nothing to do with housing and mortgages.

actually, it has everything to do with it. The banks didn't practice due diligence because they were just looking to offload the mortgages on some other sucker.

Yeah and that sucker was the fucking government.

 

[JoeB131]

That has nothing to do with housing and mortgages.

actually, it has everything to do with it. The banks didn't practice due diligence because they were just looking to offload the mortgages on some other sucker.

Yeah and that sucker was the fucking government.

Yes, it would have been nice if Bush appointed professionals and not cronies to the SEC, FDIC and FSLIC.

 

[Gadawg73]

If I belonged to a union, this wouldn't be an issue. My brother had a heart attack a couple weeks ago, and the Union Medical plan is taking caer of him just fine. Just like the same plan took care of my dad 30 years ago.

I had a private company insurance, and what they did was actually illegal. In fact, they paid me a pretty big bribe to NOT sue them.

I kind of wish I had now.

Medical plans which are no longer sustainable. Which is precisely why unions have been beaten back to the point where they represent just under 7% of private sector workers.
Unions pretty much demanded and priced themselves out of existence.
Tell ya what, if the unions are so great, why don't union bosses fund the medical insurance and pension plans themselves?

Again, horseshit.

the only thing that isn't sustainable is the greed of the 1%.

again, the rest of the world has universal health care... they spend less per person than we do, they have a lower infant mortality rate, and longer life expectencies.

Old head in sand Joe.
Medical insurance for business has gone up an average of 5 times the inflation rate for the last 30 years.
Why? Blank check health care taken advantage of primarily by health care providers and also by the consumer. "I have it, it is free so why not use it" and take Johnny to the Dr for a common cold. Add in the unhealthy lifestyles of the union worker for the last 30 years, fat, out of shape, smokes and drinks too much. Not me, look at the retirees of GM. 7 out of of the 8 diseases they have which eat up 60% of their health care dollars are PREVENTABLE. Additionally, fraud in the worker's comp area has doctors running up tabs on medical bills because the higher the medical bills the higher the settlement.
30 years ago medical insurance for the auto makers was about 1% of the total cost of a car. That bloated to about 7% of the cost of each car GM sent off the lot in 2008. GM spent 5 billion MORE on health care for their workers than they DID ON STEEL in 2004.
30 YEARS AGO HEALTH CARE COSTS WERE 1% IN AUTO INDUSTRY
NOW THEY ARE 6% IN AUTO INDUSTRY.
Good news is they are dropping and fast yet there are dumb asses out there that believe that is a bad thing.

 

[JoeB131]

Old head in sand Joe.
Medical insurance for business has gone up an average of 5 times the inflation rate for the last 30 years.
Why? Blank check health care taken advantage of primarily by health care providers and also by the consumer. "I have it, it is free so why not use it" and take Johnny to the Dr for a common cold. Add in the unhealthy lifestyles of the union worker for the last 30 years, fat, out of shape, smokes and drinks too much. Not me, look at the retirees of GM. 7 out of of the 8 diseases they have which eat up 60% of their health care dollars are PREVENTABLE. Additionally, fraud in the worker's comp area has doctors running up tabs on medical bills because the higher the medical bills the higher the settlement.
30 years ago medical insurance for the auto makers was about 1% of the total cost of a car. That bloated to about 7% of the cost of each car GM sent off the lot in 2008. GM spent 5 billion MORE on health care for their workers than they DID ON STEEL in 2004.
30 YEARS AGO HEALTH CARE COSTS WERE 1% IN AUTO INDUSTRY
NOW THEY ARE 6% IN AUTO INDUSTRY.
Good news is they are dropping and fast yet there are dumb asses out there that believe that is a bad thing.

When the executives give up their 7 figure salaries, then I'll take them seriously on the cost of benefits.

Given cars today have more aluminium and plastic in them than steel, we can chalk that up to more of the RW lies you hear on Hate Radio.

Not to say that we can't find effective ways of cost controls. That we can't encourage healthier lifestyle choices (an iniative more and more companies are involved in.)

But here's the thing. The companies made promises. If you don't want to go to a single payer system like the rest of the world has, then you should keep your promises.

I'd be fine if they did either.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

My neighbor's daughter is 21, 3 kids age 3, 18 months and 4 months.
The father of those kids is a local con.
She draws welfare.
And you claim she would rather work.
You are beyond naive and gullible Joe. Most folks on welfare are there BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BE through their bad choices from age 18.

How can you be SOOOOOOOO successful and have such lowlife neighbors?

Again, man, you guys blew those racial dogwhistles, blew them really hard, and people rejected you.

What racial dog...What the fuck are you blabbering about?

 

[JoeB131]

[

My neighbor's daughter is 21, 3 kids age 3, 18 months and 4 months.
The father of those kids is a local con.
She draws welfare.
And you claim she would rather work.
You are beyond naive and gullible Joe. Most folks on welfare are there BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BE through their bad choices from age 18.

How can you be SOOOOOOOO successful and have such lowlife neighbors?

Again, man, you guys blew those racial dogwhistles, blew them really hard, and people rejected you.

What racial dog...What the fuck are you blabbering about?

If I explained it to you, you still wouldn't understand.

 

[Gadawg73]

Old head in sand Joe.
Medical insurance for business has gone up an average of 5 times the inflation rate for the last 30 years.
Why? Blank check health care taken advantage of primarily by health care providers and also by the consumer. "I have it, it is free so why not use it" and take Johnny to the Dr for a common cold. Add in the unhealthy lifestyles of the union worker for the last 30 years, fat, out of shape, smokes and drinks too much. Not me, look at the retirees of GM. 7 out of of the 8 diseases they have which eat up 60% of their health care dollars are PREVENTABLE. Additionally, fraud in the worker's comp area has doctors running up tabs on medical bills because the higher the medical bills the higher the settlement.
30 years ago medical insurance for the auto makers was about 1% of the total cost of a car. That bloated to about 7% of the cost of each car GM sent off the lot in 2008. GM spent 5 billion MORE on health care for their workers than they DID ON STEEL in 2004.
30 YEARS AGO HEALTH CARE COSTS WERE 1% IN AUTO INDUSTRY
NOW THEY ARE 6% IN AUTO INDUSTRY.
Good news is they are dropping and fast yet there are dumb asses out there that believe that is a bad thing.

When the executives give up their 7 figure salaries, then I'll take them seriously on the cost of benefits.

Given cars today have more aluminium and plastic in them than steel, we can chalk that up to more of the RW lies you hear on Hate Radio.

Not to say that we can't find effective ways of cost controls. That we can't encourage healthier lifestyle choices (an iniative more and more companies are involved in.)

But here's the thing. The companies made promises. If you don't want to go to a single payer system like the rest of the world has, then you should keep your promises.

I'd be fine if they did either.

No lies, all facts.
What frame is not steel? Audi some and I believe Jags some.
That is all.

 

[Gadawg73]

[

My neighbor's daughter is 21, 3 kids age 3, 18 months and 4 months.
The father of those kids is a local con.
She draws welfare.
And you claim she would rather work.
You are beyond naive and gullible Joe. Most folks on welfare are there BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BE through their bad choices from age 18.

How can you be SOOOOOOOO successful and have such lowlife neighbors?

Again, man, you guys blew those racial dogwhistles, blew them really hard, and people rejected you.

What racial dog...What the fuck are you blabbering about?

When all else fails use the race card.
Joe has 3 of them sideways up his ass now.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[
TARP was a bad idea. However, had the banks not received the infusion of cash, the potential threat to the US Financial system could have been disastrous.
At the end, ALL of the money was paid back with interest. In some cases it was returned early. Now the Obama admin insisted the banks pay the money back in the time given. The banks recovering first paid it back early anyway.
TARP was actually approved by Congress. The DEMOCRAT controlled Congress. OOPS.

TARP was an okay idea, but there should have been prosecutions of the banksters who fucked it up to start with.

Oh, by the way, the way the Banksters "paid it back" was by putting the squeeze on their customers.

Again, banksters get a bailout, the rest of us get screwed.

You can't have it both ways
How did YOU get screwed?
I lost nothing. I know of no one else who lost something? What did you lose?
No the banks basically set their business focus on core products that made positive returns.
That is how the banks were able to quickly recover.
I realize that is speaking a foreign language to you. So you will reply with some silly angry rhetoric.

 

[JoeB131]

[

No lies, all facts.
What frame is not steel? Audi some and I believe Jags some.
That is all.

Steel is cheap. and we use a lot less of it in cars now than the gas guzzlers of the 1970's that got us into so much trouble to start with.

Honestly, I'm tired of you guys blaming working people for the screwups of (wait for it) the Plutocrats.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Stop covering your weak argument with non sequiturs. The bank bailouts are not pertinent to the discussion.
If your former employer truly broke the law, you would have challenged the termination.
You know they had disciplinary stuff on you. Come on, just admit it.
Oh...Just to clear up something. You do not "pay into" an insurance policy. You pay premiums to the insurance company uses to disburse in claims for those who incurred losses.
Did you ever read the language of your policy? Were you not aware the possibility that your employer coverage had limits of benefits? Most health, auto and home policies have coverage limits.
You may not demand free shit, but you would take it if it was not you paying for them.
All union people have the entitlement mentality. After all, what is a request by a union most commonly referred to as? A "DEMAND".

Actually, didn't have a single write-up in six years. So wrong again. My reviews were exemplary.

And you can try to come up with excuses for the insurance companies, but the sooner we get them out of health care in this country, the better.

Frankly, I think Cigna (which was our insurance carrier) paying Ed Hanaway 73 million in severence packages while they refused to pay for Natalie Sarkisyan's liver transplant is immoral to the extreme.

But you guys are only "pro-life" when trying to tell a woman what to do with her lady parts.

Then according to you, you must have been wrongfully terminated. No one worth his salt would let an employer get away with it. With all the resources for recourse available over the last few decades? Stop it.
No it's not an "excuse". Every insurance policy has coverage limits.
Also, "frequent claimants" are usually scrutinized by insurers the point where the insurer may cancel the policy or raise premiums.
Insurance coverage is not some open ended bank account at the insured's disposal.
WHo is Natalie Sarkisyan? Where did you dig up that person's name?
What were the merits of her case? The exact details? Or is this one of these people used to gin up anger toward a particular business or for particular cause?

 

[thereisnospoon]

TARP was a bad idea. However, had the banks not received the infusion of cash, the potential threat to the US Financial system could have been disastrous.
At the end, ALL of the money was paid back with interest. In some cases it was returned early. Now the Obama admin insisted the banks pay the money back in the time given. The banks recovering first paid it back early anyway.
TARP was actually approved by Congress. The DEMOCRAT controlled Congress. OOPS.

Plus most all union retirement annuities are run through the financial institutions. If they go under the retirement funds go.

I had no problem with TARP itself. It needed to be done.

What I have a problem with is the assholes who made it necessary, the Bankster and the investors and the schemers who got us into this mess, got off with no prosecutions, no firings and some of them got to keep their bonuses.

What was needed for these clowns was a show trial that would make Joe Stalin go "Damn!"

The federal government interfering in the housing market made TARP necessary.
This is a well documented fact.

 

[Gadawg73]

[

No lies, all facts.
What frame is not steel? Audi some and I believe Jags some.
That is all.

Steel is cheap. and we use a lot less of it in cars now than the gas guzzlers of the 1970's that got us into so much trouble to start with.

Honestly, I'm tired of you guys blaming working people for the screwups of (wait for it) the Plutocrats.

1010 times "plutocrat"
And counting.

 

[Politico]

I think converstions about Illinois should be banned. The people in that state are such idiots.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If I belonged to a union, this wouldn't be an issue. My brother had a heart attack a couple weeks ago, and the Union Medical plan is taking caer of him just fine. Just like the same plan took care of my dad 30 years ago.

I had a private company insurance, and what they did was actually illegal. In fact, they paid me a pretty big bribe to NOT sue them.

I kind of wish I had now.

Medical plans which are no longer sustainable. Which is precisely why unions have been beaten back to the point where they represent just under 7% of private sector workers.
Unions pretty much demanded and priced themselves out of existence.
Tell ya what, if the unions are so great, why don't union bosses fund the medical insurance and pension plans themselves?

Again, horseshit.

the only thing that isn't sustainable is the greed of the 1%.

again, the rest of the world has universal health care... they spend less per person than we do, they have a lower infant mortality rate, and longer life expectencies.

You evaded the question.
You can stow the 1% crap. Occupy Wall Street is a dismal failure.
No the rest of the world does not have what you believe to be universal health care.
Besides, the countries that have UH are broke. The system is another unsustainable entitlement. UH is just government control over the lives of the people that also gives the people rationed medical care.
INfant mortality rates and longer living people are not due to the result of having government health insurance.
The US has more than double the rate of children born out of wedlock to people ill equipped to handle child rearing. Therefore the likelihood of these infants being less healthy is likely. People in other countries live longer for other reasons. They have healthier diets because their choices are limited. Or the most common cause of older person health issues are poor diet and lack of exercise.
Again, have a government issued piece of paper that says "you are insured" is an indication that "you are insured" Period.
And most importantly, those alleged UH paradise nations which you hold so dear are economically depressed due to confiscatory taxation. These people have few freedoms.
Many of the smaller countries such as Sweden, Norway. Denmark and others have small and generally homogeneous populations where it is simply natural for them to live longer. Longevity is for the most part hereditary.
You tell me. Why should I pay for someone else to get free medical care when I would have to also pay for my own? Why am I supposed to foot THEIR bill just because I work and am productive while another person is capable but refuses to be productive. Tell me, in what way is that just?

 

[thereisnospoon]

It's not the job of the government to use taxes to guarantee private loans.

People bought houses before the government started meddling and they would still buy houses if the fucking government didn't meddle.

NO, if the government didn't do that, you'd have catastrophic crashes like we had in 1929.

We had a crash because the government wasn't watching the store.

Would you mind addressing the OP's comment to you instead of drifting off into another matter. Thanks. PLease stay on point.
The Stock market crash was brought on by wild speculation in minerals, oil/gas, land and other investments. There was no SEC or other serious regulations back then..
However, this had NOTHING to do with the present government meddling in the housing market.
The only vehicle that worked correctly for less fortunate people to buy homes was FHA.
FHA allowed people to put down as little as 3% of the price of the property to qualify for the mortgage. Here is the important part. To qualify, FHA required high credit standards and verifiable income for the last three years.
Fannie/Freddie did NONE of this.
SO you can cut the crap now.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

My neighbor's daughter is 21, 3 kids age 3, 18 months and 4 months.
The father of those kids is a local con.
She draws welfare.
And you claim she would rather work.
You are beyond naive and gullible Joe. Most folks on welfare are there BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE TO BE through their bad choices from age 18.

How can you be SOOOOOOOO successful and have such lowlife neighbors?

Again, man, you guys blew those racial dogwhistles, blew them really hard, and people rejected you.

WTF are you ranting about?
The largest home on my street, 11,000 sf and my house is 2200 sf, is an African American man and his wife, retired.
The family I am speaking of is white, the daughter white and the father of her 3 kids is white.
Nice try again Joe with your race card sideways up your ass.

I'd like to use JOe's race card to slice his ethernet connection to the internet.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

We give Israel 3 billion a year.
We spend that in Afghanistan in 10 days.
For that 3 billion we give Israel we get real time intelligence for the entire region. That saves us response time a carrier group and at least one base in the region. 20 billion plus a year right there. Plus it keeps the crazies of 101 different terrorist groups in check. The Saudis behind closed doors love that we keep that presence there. They fear the kook mullahs more than they would ever fear the Israelis.
A thorough understanding of the history and logistics of that entire region is needed to understand the "aid" we give and why.

Giving Israel ONE PENNY is an abomination. It's an apartheid state that drags us into one pointless fight after another. It doesn't keep the crazies in check, it creates them.

I'm sure the rich assholes who run Saudi Arabia fear the kook Mullahs. Too bad they won't be in power that much longer. Right now, they are bribing their populace into compliance with oil money, but that won't last forever. When the Arab Spring reaches Saudi Arabia, we are going to be in a world of hurt.

But here's the thing. If we had spent the last 40 years developing energy independence instead of sticking our dicks in the mid-east hornet's nest and wondering why we keep getting stung, this wouldn't be a problem. Instead, we let Exxon and Tel Aviv dictate policies, and working class kids keep coming home in body bags.

LOL, you are as ignorant as they come.
Israel employs Palestinians in higher paying jobs than any other Arab state in the region.
To all of those Arab states the Palestinians are the ******* of the region, banned from holding any professional jobs in all of those countries.
Palestinians own more property in Israel than any other country in middle east. Anyone can own property in Israel unlike most all other Arab countries.
In 1997 the PLO's "Justice" Minister announced that any Palestinian anywhere that sells land to Jews will face the death penalty.
You are a dumb ass Joe. Go ahead and admit it and go educate yourself at a local community college. I do believe you have the ability to learn faster, much faster than the average student.
As long as you dump your biased ideology which has no foundation in fact.

Yes. The anti Israel people and the anti Semite pro Palestinian cause people completely ignore the fact that no other Middle East nation whether Arab or Persian will have the Palestinians on their soil.

 

[Jroc]

You're so screwed up, our life expectancy here includes people who die from shootings and car accidents which other countries don't include in their numbers, without those we are at the top. Infant mortality is higher here because we have more premature babies and also we have a lot of people coming in from other countries legal and illegal which screw the numbers. Big government is not going to help you with your bitterness...you're a sad little man, I almost feel sorry for you, if you wait for the government to help you with your problems it’s going to be a long wait…sad

Shootings (which we DO have too many of, probalby need to do something about Gun control) are not really fudging the numbers that much. We have 9000 shooting deaths out of 2.4 MILLION deaths total.

Also, other countries have about the same amount of auto deaths as we do.

Hey, if socialized medicine is good enough for the Zionists, it's good enough for us, right?

Frankly, instead of sending billions to prop up Israel, maybe if we took care of our own people, that would be something.

You're a clueless idiot...

Why Life Expectancy Can't Be Used to Judge Health Care

It just doesn’t work to compare life expectancy rates to quality of health care. There are dozens of factors involved in life expectancy. The paper reports that in America the average life expectancy is 80.6 now. The highest in the world is 86.4 in Japan.


A lot of people are trying to claim that this proves that state-run health care is better because people in those nations live longer. Well, the nation that I keep having thrown at me regarding nationalized health care is the United Kingdom. Their life expectancy is lower than for the United States. While the Daily Mail mentions life expectancy in the UK, it never divulges what it is in the UK.

Using life expectancy to judge health care is similar to using the supply of apples to determine the price of oranges. Life expectancy is more about life style than it is about health care.


Obesity in the US is much higher than in many other countries. Higher obesity rates lower life expectancy. It does so regardless of whether health care is brilliant or pathetic.

Even something as mundane as driving cars impacts life expectancy. The reality is that a lot of Europeans can’t afford to drive due to high taxes, lower wages, and higher prices for cars and gas. When I lived in Europe I traveled by train, which was difficult, inconvenient and inefficient. Now, I drive in the United States.

For every 100,000 residents in the United States 12.3 are killed in car accidents. In the UK it is only 3.59. In Sweden it 2.9; Switzerland is 4.7; Germany is 4.5; and Netherlands is 8.6. Traffic accidents lower life expectancy. But few people would argue that the health care system causes car accidents. If you increase the number of drivers you will increase the number of people who die in car accidents. Because Americans are more able to afford cars, they drive more. And the more they drive the more likely they are to be killed in car accidents. And when they are, the life expectancy rate goes down.

Crime is not caused by health care, yet crime rates directly impact life expectancy, sometimes dramatically so. According to the Daily Mail, the ten nations with the highest life expectancy rate are Japan, Spain, Switzerland, France, Australia, Korea, Israel, Finland, Sweden and Iceland. They all exceed life expectancy in the U.S. What are the murder rates in those countries? Surely murdering people lowers their life expectancy, and the higher the murder rate, the lower the life expectancy.

The U.S. has a higher infant mortality rate, which means lower life expectancy overall. One reason for this is that we define infant mortality more strictly than do other nations. Let us compare a child that is born weighing just under a pound in the United States, who dies shortly after birth. That is counted as a live birth and added to the numbers that determine life expectancy. The same child, in Austria or Germany, is not considered a live birth and has no impact on life expectancy rates. In Switzerland, which has a higher life expectancy than us, a newborn who dies, but is less than 30 centimeters in length is not considered live born and doesn’t go into their life expectancy rates. In the U.S. the same child is included. In both Belgium and France (high on the list) a birth before 26 weeks of pregnancy is considered lifeless, even if the child is breathing. In the U.S. the child is considered alive and counts against our life expectancy rate.

Factors that lower infant mortality include “fewer teen pregnancies, married as opposed to single mothers, less obesity and smoking, more education and moms pregnant with babies that they are utterly intent on having.” These are not controllable by the health care system in any direct manner.

Moorfield Storey Blog: Why Life Expectancy Can't Be Used to Judge Health Care.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You're so screwed up, our life expectancy here includes people who die from shootings and car accidents which other countries don't include in their numbers, without those we are at the top. Infant mortality is higher here because we have more premature babies and also we have a lot of people coming in from other countries legal and illegal which screw the numbers. Big government is not going to help you with your bitterness...you're a sad little man, I almost feel sorry for you, if you wait for the government to help you with your problems it’s going to be a long wait…sad

Shootings (which we DO have too many of, probalby need to do something about Gun control) are not really fudging the numbers that much. We have 9000 shooting deaths out of 2.4 MILLION deaths total.

Also, other countries have about the same amount of auto deaths as we do.

Hey, if socialized medicine is good enough for the Zionists, it's good enough for us, right?

Frankly, instead of sending billions to prop up Israel, maybe if we took care of our own people, that would be something.

Israel has 7 million people. We have two cities and 6 metropolitan areas with bigger populations.
THere is NO WAY our federal government can insure and administer medical care, all hospitals, all medical facilities for 315 million people. The cost would be astronomical and unsustainable.
I have an idea. Tell you enviro wackos to back off on oil. We get to build all the refineries we need, drill where ever there is oil. The companies normally pay their royalties to the US Treasury. Instead, let the royalties go to fund our medical care and medical facilities.
Every person has a yearly $500 deductible.
DO that and you can have your precious free shit. Until then, forget it.
Obamacare got rammed down our throats. It's not going to happen again.