Illinois governor strikes blow for taxapyers...q

[Skull Pilot]

The incessant whining in this thread is becoming unbearable.

 

[barry1960]

Nice theory. We're middle class. The wife's 410k is fine and the moderately priced home we live in is right side up in the loan..
Wanna know why? We do not live beyond our means. We never needed the permission of a labor collective to branch out into other careers. We can shop and dine where we wish.
Tariffs? Trade wars are stupid. Nobody wins. Oh, remember, free trade was a bi-partisan idea. Look to your federal government to place the blame for that piece of shit.
The housing market? Look no further than your federal government to place blame for policies that created that piece of shit.

Look, the public worker unions were fine until the union leadership went political. They discovered they could enrich themselves under the guise of protecting government employees. The union bosses used their powerful influence to steer legislation that gave huge advatanges to union members. Soon after taxes began to rise at alarming rates.
Why? Because for every favor a politician did for a union, the union promised the politician unwavering support for their next campaign. In some states, property tax rates would rise as much as 20% in a single year. Check nj.com and other sources. It got so bad for example, New Jersey had to rescue taxpayers by enacting a 2% annual tax levy cap. DO you know who screamed the loudest in protest against the skullduggery? The fucking public employee unions. They screamed "what about our raises?!!!!" What about our pensions, they hollered...Raises? Pensions? WHAT?!!! People were being taxed out of their homes because the answer to the question from the politicians to the union bosses was, umm we will make sure you get your people their increases in the next contract, but we have to ask, where do we get the money from to pay for this?...The union bosses advised them to simply raise taxes.
When even the most pro union of politicians saw the mass exodus of wealth from these big union states, NJ for example, they panicked. Uh oh....The residents are pissed!!!!
Instead of tempering their demands, unions pushed for more. The situation came to a head. The greed of unions cooked their goose. And now reality has set it. The gravy train ride is OVER.
This is only the beginning and it is not going to stop. 22 states are right to work. Indiana made 23 this year. There are several states in which public workers may join unions but do not have the right to collectively bargain for wages or benefits. Wisconsin in part joined their ranks this year. Ironically those states have among the lowest property tax rates in the country. And people are flocking to those places.
In California, the voters went the opposite way. They voted themselves a huge tax increase. California has a $16B budget deficit and over $500B in unfunded pension obligations. The state is essentially broke. Four large cities including Bakersfield, Stockton and Fresno have declared bankruptcy.
Face it. It's done. And there is nothing you can do about it. Your(unions) time has passed.
Unions failed to modernize their thinking. Unions continue to operate as though it were 1950. That is their downfall.

BTW, Fresno is my home town and i live in Bakersfield. Neither has filed bankruptcy. Get your facts straight, schmuck.

Dick.

Get your facts straight schmuck.

The nature of unions has changed. Fewer employees are union members. The percentage of blue collar workers is much less. In fact white collar and saftey government workers appear to be a high percentage of those workers still unionized. Not coincidently, they are the few remaining workers will defined pension plans. For private workers, those pensions went by the way side in the past 20 years, their dissappearance lining the pockets of executives high up in corporations in what amounts to a massive transfer of wealth.

At this point most unions are attempting to just hang onto benefits. These are benefits no longer enjoyed by non-governemt workers so the tide is against them. Further, not all government workers has equal bargaining rights or esteem in the public eye. In California, public safety workers take the lion share of benefits.

You are right on one count. The time of unions is past, however the need for them has not.

 

[Meathead]

The incessant whining in this thread is becoming unbearable.

Agreed. It is not just the incessant whining but the "poor, poor pitiful me" mantra that's so annoying.

 

[Gadawg73]

BTW, Fresno is my home town and i live in Bakersfield. Neither has filed bankruptcy. Get your facts straight, schmuck.

Dick.

Get your facts straight schmuck.

The nature of unions has changed. Fewer employees are union members. The percentage of blue collar workers is much less. In fact white collar and saftey government workers appear to be a high percentage of those workers still unionized. Not coincidently, they are the few remaining workers will defined pension plans. For private workers, those pensions went by the way side in the past 20 years, their dissappearance lining the pockets of executives high up in corporations in what amounts to a massive transfer of wealth.

At this point most unions are attempting to just hang onto benefits. These are benefits no longer enjoyed by non-governemt workers so the tide is against them. Further, not all government workers has equal bargaining rights or esteem in the public eye. In California, public safety workers take the lion share of benefits.

You are right on one count. The time of unions is past, however the need for them has not.

Defined benefit plans are for the undicsiplined uneducated worker that wants a guarantee and is too ignorant to take part in their own retirement planning.
Workers can accumulate a much larger retirement plan with a CONTRIBUTION plan, a plan where the disciplined worker can contribute as much of their hard earned $$$ as they want to match what the employer puts in.
Most management is on a salary and works more hours than the hourly worker. There has been no transfer of wealth to executives of companies at the hands of union workers.
That is the myth of the left.
The transfer of wealth has been from the workers TO THE RETIREES over the last 40 years.

 

[JoeB131]

Hey fuck face. When you make a claim it is up to YOU to provide the link.
Don't go thinking you can win a contest of insults with me. Nothing is off limits. There are no rules in a street fight.
Politics had nothing to do with it.
You simply cannot convince yourself to accept responsibility for your own actions.
Do you ever read your own posts? You have blamed just about everyone for your termination.

Guy, the Sarkisyan case is well known to people discussin health care issues. It would be like asking you to provide a link every time you whine about Benghazi.

The only people I blame are the insurance company and the company I worked for. It's a very specific indictment. Not that you get fail to get that. But I know you just refuse to believe there are companies that act evilly out there.
Clearly, you are the one losing composure here,since you keep hitting the same tired point over and over again. People really are fired for no other reason than insurance companies tell their employers to fire them. This has been documented.

It's why we need unions and strong workers rights.

Paranoid Personality Disorder is ....

Do you really think that someone who lets a 17 year old girl die so they can get a bigger bonus is anything but evil?

Just asking. Because it seems that you folks on the right preach morality all day, as long as it doesn't interfere with someone's abililty to make a profit.

If Nataline was a fetus, you'd have given a shit.

 

[JoeB131]

The incessant whining in this thread is becoming unbearable.

You mean you hate it when they fight back. They all need to bend over for the man like you do?

It's only "Class Warfare" when they fight back.

 

[Jroc]

Guy, the Sarkisyan case is well known to people discussin health care issues. It would be like asking you to provide a link every time you whine about Benghazi.

The only people I blame are the insurance company and the company I worked for. It's a very specific indictment. Not that you get fail to get that. But I know you just refuse to believe there are companies that act evilly out there.
Clearly, you are the one losing composure here,since you keep hitting the same tired point over and over again. People really are fired for no other reason than insurance companies tell their employers to fire them. This has been documented.

It's why we need unions and strong workers rights.

Do you really think that someone who lets a 17 year old girl die so they can get a bigger bonus is anything but evil?

Just asking. Because it seems that you folks on the right preach morality all day, as long as it doesn't interfere with someone's abililty to make a profit.

If Nataline was a fetus, you'd have given a shit.

That’s a general assessment of you, as I don’t know the facts of that specific case, but it sounds like another one of your delusions. I don't take the views of delusional haters as fact. You've got problems man...Get some help

 

[JoeB131]

[


That’s a general assessment of you, as I don’t know the facts of that specific case, but it sounds like another one of your delusions. I don't take the views of delusional haters as fact. You've got problems man...Get some help

So you are IGNORANT of the facts, but dammit, you are going to make up your mind, anyway, right?

Kind of the conservative mantra. Facts that don't fit in with my world view- Evolution, Global Warming, Statisitics - are wrong. And the people who point them out are part of a conspiracy against you...

Hmmmmm...

 

[Jroc]

[


That’s a general assessment of you, as I don’t know the facts of that specific case, but it sounds like another one of your delusions. I don't take the views of delusional haters as fact. You've got problems man...Get some help

So you are IGNORANT of the facts, but dammit, you are going to make up your mind, anyway, right?

Kind of the conservative mantra. Facts that don't fit in with my world view- Evolution, Global Warming, Statisitics - are wrong. And the people who point them out are part of a conspiracy against you...

Hmmmmm...

I judge you by your posts, it's not pretty. People with a mindset like you have serous personnel issues...i have some empathy for you at times because of it

 

[JoeB131]

[


I judge you by your posts, it's not pretty. People with a mindset like you have serous personnel issues...i have empathy for you at times because of it

You wouldn't know empathy if it bit you in the ass.

Frankly, when I see an opinion I don't agree with, I research it and debunk it. If I find I can't debunk it, I rethink my position.

You seem incapable of doing either.

 

[Jroc]

[


I judge you by your posts, it's not pretty. People with a mindset like you have serous personnel issues...i have empathy for you at times because of it

You wouldn't know empathy if it bit you in the ass.

Frankly, when I see an opinion I don't agree with, I research it and debunk it. If I find I can't debunk it, I rethink my position.

You seem incapable of doing either.

"Debunk" You can find anything on the internet these days...There’s a lot of hate out there, some people let it take over their lives..Get some help man

 

[JoeB131]

[


I judge you by your posts, it's not pretty. People with a mindset like you have serous personnel issues...i have empathy for you at times because of it

You wouldn't know empathy if it bit you in the ass.

Frankly, when I see an opinion I don't agree with, I research it and debunk it. If I find I can't debunk it, I rethink my position.

You seem incapable of doing either.

"Debunk" You can find anything on the internet these days...There’s a lot of hate out there, some people let it take over their lives..Get some help man

There's a lot of shit on the internet, but if you are intelligent enough to sort through it all, you know what is credible and what isn't.

In the case of the Sarkisyan case, an Ex-VP named Wendell Potter broke bad on the company when his conscience couldn't abide what was done to Nataline.

Cigna will resume it's policies of having consciences surgically removed from Executives in the future.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Defined benefit plans are for the undicsiplined uneducated worker that wants a guarantee and is too ignorant to take part in their own retirement planning.
.

So what you are saying is that only the folks who are smart enough not to be defrauded by Wall Street deserve to eat something other than Dog Food in their golden years.

Are you fuckers ever going to get why you lost the election?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Umm, you do not understand how a marketplace works. In order to have a deal there must not only be someone willing to sell, but also someone willing to buy.
AND......This is very important. The federal government told the banks 'no problem. We will back these new loans if they default. ALSO we will give you options for selling these loans to others as an investment in the country. They are called "mortgage backed securities"..We guarantee those as well..'

Where you get your ideas( could be a Communist manifesto or you are just a bitter individual)from is a mystery.

Well, yeah, when you have a clod like Baby Bush, shit like that happens.

Our biggest mistake was we didn't have Kangeroo courts and send these banksters to prison for repeated sodomy.

'Tis better to keep people guessing you are a fool rather than speak out and leave no doubt.
Yes, only those who fit the liberal description of politically correct are afforded their day in court.
Look genius, those "banksters" broke no laws. In fact the entire idea of mortgage backed securities which are STILL in use and encouraged in this latest QE(3) came from the federal government.
Your obvious grasp on the facts is impeccable. Faceplam.
Now go ahead, spew something else. Here's your sign.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And what is the REAL story? Not just the emotionally charged "look at what these no good bastards did to me" story.
There are two sides to every story.

Why do you care? Would it shatter your little sychophantic universe if it turns out my account is a pretty accuate rendering? It seems you are awfully invested in the whole thing.

This is not to say that ordinary citizens are not victimized by a sometimes cruel system full of rules and unthinking, uncaring bureaucracy. It happens all too often. However, turning over the entire medical field into the hands of a federal government that has a track record of complicating and driving up costs is not the answer.

This is where you fools need to get your stories straight. Doctors don't want to take Medicare and Medicaid patients because they aren't as lucrative as private insurance, and you claim they run up costs? Really?





Again, people on Medicare are VASTLY more satisfied with their service than people with private insurance, especially the self-insured.

Now, where is the link to the story on this case. I wish to read it for myself.

What, you are too fucking retarded to use Google?

Nataline Sarkisyan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/health/views/06chen.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Moves from the Cigna playbook - latimes.com

Back toy your termination...If you got paid off and got a new job, what the fuck are you bitching about?

That it ever had to come to that at all, dumbshit. Just because I made the best of a bad situation, doesn't make what they did Okay. Nor does it mean I should continue to support a political system that allows that sort of stuff to happen.

After all that you post the link anyway. Sheesh.

 

[Gadawg73]

[

Defined benefit plans are for the undicsiplined uneducated worker that wants a guarantee and is too ignorant to take part in their own retirement planning.
.

So what you are saying is that only the folks who are smart enough not to be defrauded by Wall Street deserve to eat something other than Dog Food in their golden years.

Are you fuckers ever going to get why you lost the election?

Union pensions ARE ALL IN WALL STREET PLANS.
Well DUH!

 

[thereisnospoon]

And what is the REAL story? Not just the emotionally charged "look at what these no good bastards did to me" story.
There are two sides to every story.

Why do you care? Would it shatter your little sychophantic universe if it turns out my account is a pretty accuate rendering? It seems you are awfully invested in the whole thing.

This is not to say that ordinary citizens are not victimized by a sometimes cruel system full of rules and unthinking, uncaring bureaucracy. It happens all too often. However, turning over the entire medical field into the hands of a federal government that has a track record of complicating and driving up costs is not the answer.

This is where you fools need to get your stories straight. Doctors don't want to take Medicare and Medicaid patients because they aren't as lucrative as private insurance, and you claim they run up costs? Really?





Again, people on Medicare are VASTLY more satisfied with their service than people with private insurance, especially the self-insured.

Now, where is the link to the story on this case. I wish to read it for myself.

What, you are too fucking retarded to use Google?

Nataline Sarkisyan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/06/health/views/06chen.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Moves from the Cigna playbook - latimes.com

Back toy your termination...If you got paid off and got a new job, what the fuck are you bitching about?

That it ever had to come to that at all, dumbshit. Just because I made the best of a bad situation, doesn't make what they did Okay. Nor does it mean I should continue to support a political system that allows that sort of stuff to happen.

No for the most part they don't want those patients because the federal government has lowered the reimbursement every year for the last 5 years.
The reimbursement has dropped nearly 50% in that time period. Many doctors do in fact continue to take Medicare/Caid patients because they are a part of their patient base.
About satisfaction rates with government subsidized insurance, you cannot support that claim. So please, do not confuse Medicare with socialized medicine as a means to support your dream of universal health care. It's not happening here. Go to another country and seek your free shit there.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hey fuck face. When you make a claim it is up to YOU to provide the link.
Don't go thinking you can win a contest of insults with me. Nothing is off limits. There are no rules in a street fight.
Politics had nothing to do with it.
You simply cannot convince yourself to accept responsibility for your own actions.
Do you ever read your own posts? You have blamed just about everyone for your termination.

Guy, the Sarkisyan case is well known to people discussin health care issues. It would be like asking you to provide a link every time you whine about Benghazi.

The only people I blame are the insurance company and the company I worked for. It's a very specific indictment. Not that you get fail to get that. But I know you just refuse to believe there are companies that act evilly out there.

Clearly, you are the one losing composure here,since you keep hitting the same tired point over and over again. People really are fired for no other reason than insurance companies tell their employers to fire them. This has been documented.

It's why we need unions and strong workers rights.

Well known among whom?...Why did this not make national news? Most of the" human interest with a cause" stories do.
So I am thinking the story did not go the way you are presenting and the main stream media left it alone.
With the propensity for people to just make up shit as they go, it is important and is generally accepted that if one makes a claim it is incumbent on them to provide the facts behind their claims. That is the way it is done now. Accept it or decline to participate. Everyone else plays by these rules. What makes you think you are so special?
Composure? Never been more composed. I keep hammering on the facts. Apparently you have grown tired of them and just wish they would go away.
Here we go again, you make this incredible accusation about insurance companies, presumably the carriers handling group policies. Now you are claiming that insurance companies simply pick employees whom the carrier believes is costing them too much money for medical care and recommends the employee to be discharged? And the employer simply complies with the request?
This I gotta see. Now here is a perfect example of the timing being right for you in this case who have made this accusation to do your research and post some links that back up the claim. This is how this discussion board works. You don't get to make drive by claims then demand others do your work for you.
Stop with the union crap. Unions are dead. They killed themselves.

 

[thereisnospoon]

[

How do you make that leap?..I see a total disconnect.
Oh, this is the problem with you libs. "WE won"?....We?. Who is "we"?
Is not Mr Obama supposed to be the President of ALL the United States? Oh that's right, his idea of the USA is those who agree with and unconditionally support his every whim. The rest of us can just fuck off, right? This is proof positive that Obama is the most divisive individual to ever occupy the White House.
If this is about us vs them, then you have a lot to learn.
I suspect it is too late for you. Face it, you will never be happy. Your very core is set up to be miserable. And your idea of life is to make sure everyone else is miserable.
Hey, "we" didn't win anything. I am doing fine. That is not because of Obama and his policies, but in spite of them. Unlike you, I believe in the individual. I went to the school of improvise overcome and adapt. These concepts are vilified by the political left.
Oh, you obviously have no explanation for these alleged promises.
Perhaps you made them up in your mind, yes?. A misinterpretation on your part.

Hey, guy, I understand why you need to make this about me.

Because somewhere there's almost the spark of a decent human being that knows this shit is unacceptable.

The right had no problem claiming mandates even when they lost the popular vote.

You made this about you with your incessant whining about how you believe you were wrongly terminated from your job.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Hey, guy, I understand why you need to make this about me.

Because somewhere there's almost the spark of a decent human being that knows this shit is unacceptable.

The right had no problem claiming mandates even when they lost the popular vote.

That post makes no sense.
What is unacceptable about what?
You are the master of the vague.

Did you need someone to help you with the big words?

You mean words like "spark" "decent" and "shit"...?