Im gonna say it since no one else will.

[Inthemiddle]

I don't think she must resign. She's only got a few months before she gets voted out anyway.

One thing I find amusing in all of this is that back in the early days of the primary alot of the Tea Party and righty wing nut camp, especially a significant number of people on this board, had the crazy notion that the Democrats were scared shitless of Bachmann getting the nomination. I always felt like, if anything, the Democrats should have been praying for it. Just imagine now if she had. Obama after this past week, Obama would be guaranteed a sweep of all 57 states.

 

[daveman]

It's you rightwingers who insist crazy people like James Holmes should be able to buy weapons on demand because the Founders gave you the right to overthrow your government.

How many gun laws are needed before criminals start obeying them?

Prediction: You will not have a rational answer to this question..

It's a stupid question. Most gun deaths are not the result of "hardened criminals".

I didn't say "hardened criminals". So your argument is pointless.

55% of gun deaths are suicides. Yeah, technically suicide is against the law, but they'd be a lot harder to commit if there wasn't a gun in the house.

Really? That's rather an ignorant statement, if you'd but reflect a moment.

People who want to die will die. The method is immaterial.

Another 5% are accidents and the remaining 40% are homicides. However, very few of those are hardened criminals or even the occassional crazy person shooting people up. Most of them are arguments within families about who got the last donut.

I'd like to see a source for the last. A REAL source, please.

Again, lot easier to reduce those if every asshole in the country didn't have a gun.

The old adage, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I don't think Ayers was either. I think he was the result of a government that couldnt' admit it was making huge mistakes, and was willing to expend the blood of its young people in the process. (Not to mention a lot of Vietnamese who were just wondering why Bhudda was so pissed off at them.)

So Ayers was a terrorist -- but it was the government's fault.

Your passionate defense for a terrorist is noted. Again.

Never mind the fact he admitted he was guilty. Moron.

He's someone who decided violence was the answer to a problem, which of course, it rarely is.

Violence represents a failure of human beings to solve problems, whether you call those who enact it terrorists or freedom fighters or soldiers.

If Ayers side had won the near civil war we had in the 1960's, they'd have been heroes. If his side had been utterly crushed, they'd have been "terrorists". Instead, we kind of sat down, forced Nixon out, and all gave ourselves a national Time Out on the silliness as we sorted ourselves out in the 1970's.

The main reason you know, stupid people (also known as Teabaggers) give for wanting to keep their guns handy is because they want to reserve the right to overthrow the government. Ayers was excercising a right you seem to think we should have.

I guess expecting consistency from you is asking a little much, huh?

You applaud Ayers for doing what you condemn the TEA Partiers for talking about.

And at the end of the day, amusingly enough, that government couldn't make a case against him that would hold up in its own courts.

The case was dismissed due to a technicality about wiretaps, not because the case was weak.

And again, Ayers himself admitted he was guilty.

But you just make sure you don't acknowledge that inconvenient truth.

And here's the thing. I'm not calling for the end to gun ownership... although I wouldn't mind crushing the NRA like a bug because of its corrosive effect on our politics.

You misspelled "unions".

I'm saying it should be restricted to responsible people... "Well-Regulated" you might say.

Something tells me your idea of "responsible people" is "those who vote Democrat".

I'm glad my vote cancels yours.

 

[Fordsflylow]

This is maybe a bit off topic from the title of this thread, but I think relevant. Over one million people have been killed in the US alone due to gun violence since the days of MLK.

And it would also not be a wrong statement to say more people have been killed in a car or by a car than have been killed with a gun.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[JoeB131]

We do know that some of the guns confiscated in the skirmish that killed Terry were bought through F&F. And we know that hundreds and thousands of weapons walked across the border without the knowledge and consent of the Mexican gov't. Sounds like a scandal to me.

I don't think most of us believe anyone can buy a gun any time or anywhere. And we sure as hell don't think it's okay for 2000 weapons to cross the border every day, where do you come up with this shit?

F&F was a dumbass program that was poorly designed and even more poorly executed. People shoulda been fired or arrested. Instead they covered it up and stonewalled, as per usual.

Or they just pointed out the uncomfortable truth that it's too easy to buy guns in this country and move them to Mexico.

Again 2000 guns a DAY. 700,000 a YEAR. And the ATF tried to track and lost track of maybe 700.

The Scandal is that the NRA has made gun laws so meaningless in this country that this sort of thing can and does happen all the time. And when you have a tragedy like happened in Colorado, the first response isn't something sensible like 'How do we change the laws so crazy people can't buy guns", it was "Gee, wouldn't it been nice if you had more concealed carry and someone in that gas fulled theatre was able to shoot back in the middle of a stampede!"

Maybe read this and you'll understand how silly you sound when you whine about "fast and furious"...

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

 

[Noomi]

Michelle Bachmann must resign. Others in congress should call for it. To imply that Hillary Clinton's aid and US born resident is a terrorist or sympathizer is FUCKING NUTS.

I just heard bits and pieces of the story but its a travesty that this woman has any power at all.

I agree. I find it amusing she is even allowed to speak, what with the garbage that comes out of her mouth.

 

[Fordsflylow]

The con's haven't time for reading, or for reasonable discussion/debate, they're too busy spreading; fear, hate, lies, misleading info, etc. be damned any facts or non-partisan studies.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm not going to plod through everything you posted.

I didn't say "hardened criminals". So your argument is pointless.

Point was you said criminals, but when you take out the suicides, accidents. and the domestic violence, most gun deaths are caused by ordinary people who made bad judgement calls.

I guess expecting consistency from you is asking a little much, huh?

I personally think that we should legalize most drugs and treat drug addiction like a medical problem, not a criminal one. We lock up millions of people and we have the highest crime rate in the industrialized world. Here's the key thing, though. Drug users don't hurt anyone but themselves. They've been warned of the dangers, they've made their bad choice, they have to live with it.

The person who justed wanted to go see a fucking Batman Movie on Friday didn't have a choice when a crazy person decided to start firing at them randomly. He engaged in an activity that really he had no reason to think would be dangerous to him. But a crazy person was able to buy an automatic weapon and a 100 round magazine at a Bass Pro Shop.

You applaud Ayers for doing what you condemn the TEA Partiers for talking about.

Didn't applaud it, just put it into context. Ayers acted in an illegal way when the government was wire tapping citizens, overthrowing elected governments, spying on their political opponents and sending infiltrators into groups to entrap them into committing crimes.

All Obama did to tick off the Teabaggers is pass a law they used to support. And being black. And when he beats the Weird Mormon Robot in November, I'm sure a lot of you are going to go nuts.

The case was dismissed due to a technicality about wiretaps, not because the case was weak.

It was not a technicality. If it weren't for the wiretaps, they had absolutely no other evidence.

And again, Ayers himself admitted he was guilty.

But you just make sure you don't acknowledge that inconvenient truth.

Not relevent to anything being said. Here's the thing. At that point, the country really didn't believe anything the government said, because it had been caught in so many lies. They knew they couldn't get a jury to convict Ayers given a lot of the popular anger over Watergate and Vietnam and God knows what else. The implicit message of Nixon's pardon was that we were going to let everything else from that period slide, too.

And here's the thing. I'm not calling for the end to gun ownership... although I wouldn't mind crushing the NRA like a bug because of its corrosive effect on our politics.

You misspelled "unions".

No, you see, I think groups that make sure workers aren't abused is a good thing. Organizations that think CRAZY people should be unrestricted in purchasing guns should be crushed.

I'm saying it should be restricted to responsible people... "Well-Regulated" you might say.

Something tells me your idea of "responsible people" is "those who vote Democrat".

I'm glad my vote cancels yours.

Too bad there won't be enough of you. Keep in mind, I voted for McCain last time... this time, I'm voting for Obama because I hate Mormons so much.

 

[Mac1958]

Michelle Bachmann must resign. Others in congress should call for it. To imply that Hillary Clinton's aid and US born resident is a terrorist or sympathizer is FUCKING NUTS.

I just heard bits and pieces of the story but its a travesty that this woman has any power at all.

I agree. I find it amusing she is even allowed to speak, what with the garbage that comes out of her mouth.

"Allowed to speak"?

Allowed?

She's a whack job, indeed, but in our country even they're "allowed" to speak.

.

 

[Fordsflylow]

Michelle Bachmann must resign. Others in congress should call for it. To imply that Hillary Clinton's aid and US born resident is a terrorist or sympathizer is FUCKING NUTS.

I just heard bits and pieces of the story but its a travesty that this woman has any power at all.

I agree. I find it amusing she is even allowed to speak, what with the garbage that comes out of her mouth.

"Allowed to speak"?

Allowed?

She's a whack job, indeed, but in our country even they're "allowed" to speak.

.

True that! Just like the nut cases here on the boards, let em write and dig that hole deeper.

 

[daveman]

Michelle Bachmann must resign. Others in congress should call for it. To imply that Hillary Clinton's aid and US born resident is a terrorist or sympathizer is FUCKING NUTS.

I just heard bits and pieces of the story but its a travesty that this woman has any power at all.

I agree. I find it amusing she is even allowed to speak, what with the garbage that comes out of her mouth.

She's allowed to speak because she has the right to.

 

[daveman]

I'm not going to plod through everything you posted.

I didn't say "hardened criminals". So your argument is pointless.

Point was you said criminals, but when you take out the suicides, accidents. and the domestic violence, most gun deaths are caused by ordinary people who made bad judgement calls.

Private gun ownership is all but illegal in Chicago. Chicago Homicide Rate Worse Than Kabul, Up To 200 Police Assigned To High-Profile Wedding (VIDEO)

As for Aurora:

Currently in Aurora, Colorado, where the shooting took place, it is already unlawful to carry a concealed "dangerous weapon," discharge firearms, unless by law enforcement on duty or on shooting range, and have loaded firearm in motor vehicle.

Yet these laws were unable to stop James Holmes.​

I guess expecting consistency from you is asking a little much, huh?

I personally think that we should legalize most drugs and treat drug addiction like a medical problem, not a criminal one. We lock up millions of people and we have the highest crime rate in the industrialized world. Here's the key thing, though. Drug users don't hurt anyone but themselves. They've been warned of the dangers, they've made their bad choice, they have to live with it.

Drug users don't hurt anyone but themselves? Another profoundly ignorant statement.

Drugged Driving | DrugFacts | National Institute on Drug Abuse

A number of studies have examined illicit drug use in drivers involved in motor vehicle crashes, reckless driving, or fatal accidents. For example—

One study found that about 34 percent of motor vehicle crash victims admitted to a Maryland trauma center tested positive for “drugs only;” about 16 percent tested positive for “alcohol only.” Approximately 9.9 percent (or 1 in 10) tested positive for alcohol and drugs, and within this group, 50 percent were younger than age 18.5 Although it is interesting that more people in this study tested positive for “drugs only” compared with “alcohol only,” it should be noted that this represents one geographic location, so findings cannot be generalized. In fact, the majority of studies among similar populations have found higher prevalence rates of alcohol use compared with drug use.6

Studies conducted in several localities have found that approximately 4 to 14 percent of drivers who sustained injury or died in traffic accidents tested positive for delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in marijuana.7​

Would you like to make the case that the pot smokers' accidents were single-vehicle only, and they had no passengers? That would be amusing to see.

The person who justed wanted to go see a fucking Batman Movie on Friday didn't have a choice when a crazy person decided to start firing at them randomly. He engaged in an activity that really he had no reason to think would be dangerous to him.

Because he chose to act in a location where he knew his victims would be unarmed.

But a crazy person was able to buy an automatic weapon and a 100 round magazine at a Bass Pro Shop.

Oooh, scary black bullet hoses!

Oh, except it was NOT an automatic weapon. It was semi-auto. But sorry to throw a fact into the middle of your emotional rant.

Didn't applaud it, just put it into context. Ayers acted in an illegal way when the government was wire tapping citizens, overthrowing elected governments, spying on their political opponents and sending infiltrators into groups to entrap them into committing crimes.

No one is responsible for the Weathermen's crimes but the Weathermen.

Funny how you don't want to hold them responsible. And by "funny", I mean "entirely predictable".

All Obama did to tick off the Teabaggers is pass a law they used to support.

Wrong.

And being black.

WAY wrong and intellectually bankrupt.

And when he beats the Weird Mormon Robot in November, I'm sure a lot of you are going to go nuts.

Do you have your conspiracy theory on deck and warmed up for when Obama loses?

It was not a technicality. If it weren't for the wiretaps, they had absolutely no other evidence.

And if the government had followed proper procedure, the wiretaps would have been admissible. Therefore: Technicality.

Not relevent to anything being said.

Yes, it was.

Here's the thing. At that point, the country really didn't believe anything the government said, because it had been caught in so many lies. They knew they couldn't get a jury to convict Ayers given a lot of the popular anger over Watergate and Vietnam and God knows what else.

Prove it.

The implicit message of Nixon's pardon was that we were going to let everything else from that period slide, too.

Yes, the left has never been interested in justice, has it?

No, you see, I think groups that make sure workers aren't abused is a good thing. Organizations that think CRAZY people should be unrestricted in purchasing guns should be crushed.

Yeah. Please show me something from the NRA that their position is that crazy people should be unrestricted in purchasing guns.

I'm saying it should be restricted to responsible people... "Well-Regulated" you might say.

Something tells me your idea of "responsible people" is "those who vote Democrat".

I'm glad my vote cancels yours.

Too bad there won't be enough of you. Keep in mind, I voted for McCain last time... this time, I'm voting for Obama because I hate Mormons so much.

Yes, because irrational hatred and bigotry is a perfectly valid basis for your vote.

 

[daveman]

For the gun-grabbers:

In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books and 43 government publications evaluating 80 gun-control measures. Researchers could not identify a single regulation that reduced violent crime, suicide or accidents. A year earlier, the Centers for Disease Control reported on ammunition bans, restrictions on acquisition, waiting periods, registration, licensing, child access prevention and zero tolerance laws. CDC's conclusion: There was no conclusive evidence that the laws reduced gun violence.​

Gun control measures don't stop violence - CNN

 

[ItsjustmeIthink]

I feel sorry for conservatives, even when you're making a legit argument theres a chance no one will believe you because of all the shit these freshmen in congress are pulling.

 

[JoeB131]

Private gun ownership is all but illegal in Chicago. Chicago Homicide Rate Worse Than Kabul, Up To 200 Police Assigned To High-Profile Wedding (VIDEO)

As for Aurora:

Currently in Aurora, Colorado, where the shooting took place, it is already unlawful to carry a concealed "dangerous weapon," discharge firearms, unless by law enforcement on duty or on shooting range, and have loaded firearm in motor vehicle.​

Kabul is a highly armed military camp that is heavily policed. Not sure what your point is.

And somehow, the answer in Aurora is not "more guns".

Drug users don't hurt anyone but themselves? Another profoundly ignorant statement.

Drugged Driving | DrugFacts | National Institute on Drug Abuse

A number of studies have examined illicit drug use in drivers involved in motor vehicle crashes, reckless driving, or fatal accidents. For example—​

Meaningless. More accidents are caused by drunk drivers and people texting on cell phones, but no one is going to make those illegal.

Because he chose to act in a location where he knew his victims would be unarmed.

Or that he knew there would be a lot of them.

Oooh, scary black bullet hoses!

Oh, except it was NOT an automatic weapon. It was semi-auto. But sorry to throw a fact into the middle of your emotional rant.

Besides the fact that an AR-15 can be easily converted to full auto, the fact he had a magazine with 100 rounds in it is kind of frightening. I was in the military for 11 years and never saw a drum magazine for an M-16.

No one is responsible for the Weathermen's crimes but the Weathermen.

Funny how you don't want to hold them responsible. And by "funny", I mean "entirely predictable".

I don't think they did anything that was that big of a deal. Most of their crimes were against property. I'm just not getting weepy of the Haymarket Statue.

Also, consider, if there weren't demonstrations against the Vietnam War, would the politicians ever have been motivated to end the stupidity of it? It wasn't their kids coming home in body bags, after all. I would say that the loss of the Haymarket statue was probably worth it compared to the thousands of lives that were saved because the war ended.

Wrong.

WAY wrong and intellectually bankrupt.

Do you have your conspiracy theory on deck and warmed up for when Obama loses?

Sorry, guy, whenever I hear you guys whine about Obama, all I hear is you guys muttering the N-word with each keystroke. Talked to a lady yesterday who was all upset because she had used that epitath on Facebook and they cancelled her account.

And if the government had followed proper procedure, the wiretaps would have been admissible. Therefore: Technicality.

If they followed proper procedure, there wasn't enough probable cause to GET a warrant.

Yes, the left has never been interested in justice, has it?

Depends on your definition of justice. Nixon spied on the American people, continued and expanded a war he promised to end, ordered break ins and wire-taps and bribes and at the end of the day, he got a pardon because actually putting him on criminal trial for these things would be "too intense".

Bill Ayers blew up a statue and got off because they illegally bugged his house.

Yeah. Please show me something from the NRA that their position is that crazy people should be unrestricted in purchasing guns.

They oppose the Brady Bill, Background checks, the Assault weapons ban and every other bit of common sense gun legislation that has come down the pike.

Something tells me your idea of "responsible people" is "those who vote Democrat".

I'm glad my vote cancels yours.

Too bad there won't be enough of you. Keep in mind, I voted for McCain last time... this time, I'm voting for Obama because I hate Mormons so much.

Yes, because irrational hatred and bigotry is a perfectly valid basis for your vote.

It's not 'irrational'.

Mormons believe some pretty absurd things. (So do all religions, really, but the Mormons have to make an effort at being absurd.)

And if your mind works like that, I really have to worry about your ability to make rational sound decisions in a crisis.

Not to mention, he's as creepy as shit. I mean, somewhere between a Used Car Salesman and a Funeral Home Director level creepy.​

 

[candycorn]

Private gun ownership is all but illegal in Chicago. Chicago Homicide Rate Worse Than Kabul, Up To 200 Police Assigned To High-Profile Wedding (VIDEO)

As for Aurora:

Currently in Aurora, Colorado, where the shooting took place, it is already unlawful to carry a concealed "dangerous weapon," discharge firearms, unless by law enforcement on duty or on shooting range, and have loaded firearm in motor vehicle.​

Kabul is a highly armed military camp that is heavily policed. Not sure what your point is.

And somehow, the answer in Aurora is not "more guns".

Drug users don't hurt anyone but themselves? Another profoundly ignorant statement.

Drugged Driving | DrugFacts | National Institute on Drug Abuse

A number of studies have examined illicit drug use in drivers involved in motor vehicle crashes, reckless driving, or fatal accidents. For example—​

Meaningless. More accidents are caused by drunk drivers and people texting on cell phones, but no one is going to make those illegal.




Or that he knew there would be a lot of them.



Besides the fact that an AR-15 can be easily converted to full auto, the fact he had a magazine with 100 rounds in it is kind of frightening. I was in the military for 11 years and never saw a drum magazine for an M-16.



I don't think they did anything that was that big of a deal. Most of their crimes were against property. I'm just not getting weepy of the Haymarket Statue.

Also, consider, if there weren't demonstrations against the Vietnam War, would the politicians ever have been motivated to end the stupidity of it? It wasn't their kids coming home in body bags, after all. I would say that the loss of the Haymarket statue was probably worth it compared to the thousands of lives that were saved because the war ended.




Sorry, guy, whenever I hear you guys whine about Obama, all I hear is you guys muttering the N-word with each keystroke. Talked to a lady yesterday who was all upset because she had used that epitath on Facebook and they cancelled her account.




If they followed proper procedure, there wasn't enough probable cause to GET a warrant.



Depends on your definition of justice. Nixon spied on the American people, continued and expanded a war he promised to end, ordered break ins and wire-taps and bribes and at the end of the day, he got a pardon because actually putting him on criminal trial for these things would be "too intense".

Bill Ayers blew up a statue and got off because they illegally bugged his house.




They oppose the Brady Bill, Background checks, the Assault weapons ban and every other bit of common sense gun legislation that has come down the pike.

Too bad there won't be enough of you. Keep in mind, I voted for McCain last time... this time, I'm voting for Obama because I hate Mormons so much.

Yes, because irrational hatred and bigotry is a perfectly valid basis for your vote.

It's not 'irrational'.

Mormons believe some pretty absurd things. (So do all religions, really, but the Mormons have to make an effort at being absurd.)

And if your mind works like that, I really have to worry about your ability to make rational sound decisions in a crisis.

Not to mention, he's as creepy as shit. I mean, somewhere between a Used Car Salesman and a Funeral Home Director level creepy.​

I would think it would be a good idea to take 5 states and set them aside and restrict gun laws and see where they are in 5 years. If they are not any better, all "gun grabbers" should shut up. If there is a change in the number of citizens getting mowed down; those who want to put guns in the hands of children as early as possible, should shut up.​

 

[daveman]

Private gun ownership is all but illegal in Chicago. Chicago Homicide Rate Worse Than Kabul, Up To 200 Police Assigned To High-Profile Wedding (VIDEO)

As for Aurora:

Currently in Aurora, Colorado, where the shooting took place, it is already unlawful to carry a concealed "dangerous weapon," discharge firearms, unless by law enforcement on duty or on shooting range, and have loaded firearm in motor vehicle.​

Kabul is a highly armed military camp that is heavily policed. Not sure what your point is.​

...that Chicago, where private ownership of handguns is illegal, is more dangerous than a city besieged by Al Qaeda.

And somehow, the answer in Aurora is not "more guns".

Actually, one trained and responsible gun owner with a concealed-carry licence would have ended the tragedy immediately after it started, saving many lives.

Drug users don't hurt anyone but themselves? Another profoundly ignorant statement.

Drugged Driving | DrugFacts | National Institute on Drug Abuse

A number of studies have examined illicit drug use in drivers involved in motor vehicle crashes, reckless driving, or fatal accidents. For example—​

Meaningless. More accidents are caused by drunk drivers and people texting on cell phones, but no one is going to make those illegal.​

It's already illegal to drink and drive. Yet people do it. You know, just like people in Chicago kill each other with illegal handguns.

As far as cell phones, yes, using one while driving is illegal in many states:

State Cell Phone Use and Texting While Driving Laws

Or that he knew there would be a lot of them.

Yes -- a lot of UNARMED victims.

Besides the fact that an AR-15 can be easily converted to full auto...

The shooter's wasn't.

...the fact he had a magazine with 100 rounds in it is kind of frightening. I was in the military for 11 years and never saw a drum magazine for an M-16.

That's because a drum magazine makes a weapon a lot harder to work with.

I don't think they did anything that was that big of a deal. Most of their crimes were against property. I'm just not getting weepy of the Haymarket Statue.

List of Weatherman actions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

March 6 – WUO members Theodore Gold, Diana Oughton, and Terry Robbins are killed in the Greenwich Village townhouse explosion,[2][8] when a nailbomb they were constructing detonates. The bomb was intended to be planted at a non-commissioned officer's dance at Fort Dix, New Jersey.​

And what was the nailbomb intended to do? Tickle?

Also, consider, if there weren't demonstrations against the Vietnam War, would the politicians ever have been motivated to end the stupidity of it? It wasn't their kids coming home in body bags, after all. I would say that the loss of the Haymarket statue was probably worth it compared to the thousands of lives that were saved because the war ended.

Yes, nevermind the tens of thousands of Vietnamese killed by the Communists after we left.

Sorry, guy, whenever I hear you guys whine about Obama, all I hear is you guys muttering the N-word with each keystroke.

I can't help it if you're delusional.

Talked to a lady yesterday who was all upset because she had used that epitath on Facebook and they cancelled her account.

Uh huh.

If they followed proper procedure, there wasn't enough probable cause to GET a warrant.

From my Wiki link:

Around October, 1973 the Government requested dropping charges against most of the WUO members. The requests cited a recent decision by the Supreme Court that barred electronic surveillance without a court order. This decision could hamper prosecution of the WUO cases. In addition, the government did not want to reveal foreign intelligence secrets that the court has ordered disclosed.[32]​

The courts changed the rules on them mid-stream.

Depends on your definition of justice. Nixon spied on the American people, continued and expanded a war he promised to end, ordered break ins and wire-taps and bribes and at the end of the day, he got a pardon because actually putting him on criminal trial for these things would be "too intense".

Link?

Bill Ayers blew up a statue and got off because they illegally bugged his house.

It wasn't illegal at the time they placed the bug.

They oppose the Brady Bill, Background checks, the Assault weapons ban and every other bit of common sense gun legislation that has come down the pike.

One man's common sense is another man's violation of rights.

And you'd be surprised at the gun restrictions the NRA has endorsed.

Too bad there won't be enough of you. Keep in mind, I voted for McCain last time... this time, I'm voting for Obama because I hate Mormons so much.

Yes, because irrational hatred and bigotry is a perfectly valid basis for your vote.

It's not 'irrational'.

Yes, it is.

Mormons believe some pretty absurd things. (So do all religions, really, but the Mormons have to make an effort at being absurd.)

So do progressives...but I don't see you condemning their absurdity.

And if your mind works like that, I really have to worry about your ability to make rational sound decisions in a crisis.

You mean rational decisions like "I hate Mormons"?

Not to mention, he's as creepy as shit. I mean, somewhere between a Used Car Salesman and a Funeral Home Director level creepy.

Sheer emotionalism.​

 

[daveman]

I would think it would be a good idea to take 5 states and set them aside and restrict gun laws and see where they are in 5 years. If they are not any better, all "gun grabbers" should shut up. If there is a change in the number of citizens getting mowed down; those who want to put guns in the hands of children as early as possible, should shut up.

We've already kind of had that experiment. And it suggests legal gun ownership results in less crime:

But Armageddon never happened. Newly released data for Chicago shows that, as in Washington, murder and gun crime rates didn't rise after the bans were eliminated -- they plummeted. They have fallen much more than the national crime rate.

Not surprisingly, the national media have been completely silent about this news.

One can only imagine the coverage if crime rates had risen. In the first six months of this year, there were 14% fewer murders in Chicago compared to the first six months of last year – back when owning handguns was illegal. It was the largest drop in Chicago’s murder rate since the handgun ban went into effect in 1982.

Meanwhile, the other four most populous cities saw a total drop at the same time of only 6 percent.

Similarly, in the year after the 2008 "Heller" decision, the murder rate fell two-and-a-half times faster in Washington than in the rest of the country.

It also fell more than three as fast as in other cities that are close to Washington's size. And murders in Washington have continued to fall.

If you compare the first six months of this year to the first six months of 2008, the same time immediately preceding the Supreme Court's late June "Heller" decision, murders have now fallen by thirty-four percent.

Gun crimes also fell more than non-gun crimes.

Robberies with guns fell by 25%, while robberies without guns have fallen by eight percent. Assaults with guns fell by 37%, while assaults without guns fell by 12%.

Just as with right-to-carry laws, when law-abiding citizens have guns some criminals stop carrying theirs.​

 

[JoeB131]

...that Chicago, where private ownership of handguns is illegal, is more dangerous than a city besieged by Al Qaeda.

Well, first, Kabul counts military death separately from murder, but don't let that stop your rant. Second, Chicago is a city of some 6 million in the greater metro area, while Kabul has a poplation of about half that... but please don't let facts get in your way... you read something on a Wingnut Website and obviously, you haven't forgiven Chicago for electing the Black guy.

And what was the nailbomb intended to do? Tickle?

What was that napalm Nixon was dropping on Cambodia intended to do? hey, let's talk about Agent Orange. Oh, wait, let's not. Nope, let's get weepy that WU members other than Ayers did stuff. Guilt by association, you know.

Yes, nevermind the tens of thousands of Vietnamese killed by the Communists after we left.

What do you think the French did to people who colaborated with the Germans in WWII? Sorry, man, that's human nature.

So do progressives...but I don't see you condemning their absurdity.

Right. Irrational things like you should get a fair days pay for a fair day's work and we shouldn't let children die of starvation or treatable diseases....

And this is the problem with the GOP in general. It used to be about solutions, now it's just about exploiting mean-spiritedness while the wealthy laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization, so anyone that is a member....is a terrorist.

I'm guessing Bachman has more intel on this subject than the bi-polar dumbfuck that started this thread to get attention.

And more than John McCain?

 

[daveman]

...that Chicago, where private ownership of handguns is illegal, is more dangerous than a city besieged by Al Qaeda.

Well, first, Kabul counts military death separately from murder, but don't let that stop your rant. Second, Chicago is a city of some 6 million in the greater metro area, while Kabul has a poplation of about half that... but please don't let facts get in your way... you read something on a Wingnut Website and obviously, you haven't forgiven Chicago for electing the Black guy.

I'm not racist. Stop insisting I am.

But you won't, will you?

This has been an interesting conversation, but you can't let your irrational bigotry and hatred go.

You're dismissed.