In light of the attacks in Paris...shall we discuss gun control?

[OldLady]

What happened in Paris makes us all want to bomb something or dream of being there to shoot the bad guys! Of course it does! And everytime there's a mass shooting, Second Amendment defenders say "if they had only been carrying...." But I'm still waiting to hear of a time when a mass shooting was stopped or nipped in the bud by an armed citizen. Surely, if that is the answer, it will have happened plenty of times, considering how many mass shootings we've had and how many gun carrying folks live in this country. Why has it never stopped a mass shooting yet?

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

If his gun jammed how did he commit suicide…..the concealed carrier was there first, not the police.

[

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon[/QUOTE]
OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.[/QUOTE]


And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.[/QUOTE]

 

[Brain357]

Then what was the point of your question?

You changed the point from having guns to shooting them

Well cars aren't causing accidents while in the garage. The comparison has to be done with actual use obviously.

Whenever a point is made, you just make a poor attempt to move the goalposts

An honest comparison is moving the goal posts? I said based on use from the very start.

So you honestly changed the standard? OK, but that is still moving the goal posts. When you come up with a standard you'll stick to, let me know

When that was what I was saying from the start it isn't moving the goal posts. You seem confused.

 

[kaz]

wouldn't it have been cool if someone could have stopped him before he ran out of bullets or his gun jammed? thanks, Democrats...

 

[OKTexas]

What happened in Paris makes us all want to bomb something or dream of being there to shoot the bad guys! Of course it does! And everytime there's a mass shooting, Second Amendment defenders say "if they had only been carrying...." But I'm still waiting to hear of a time when a mass shooting was stopped or nipped in the bud by an armed citizen. Surely, if that is the answer, it will have happened plenty of times, considering how many mass shootings we've had and how many gun carrying folks live in this country. Why has it never stopped a mass shooting yet?

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

If his gun jammed how did he commit suicide…..the concealed carrier was there first, not the police.

[

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.[/QUOTE]


And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

You've been provided a dozen more, still not convinced?

 

[2aguy]

How can you politicise this tragedy before the bodies are even cold?!

--Cough--
Sandyhook
--Cough--

That is the funny thing……..had this type of attack happened here, before it happened in france…..the anti gun extremists would have been all over this, and how awful the U.S. is for letting people own guns, and they would have been bitching about assault weapon bans, magazine bans and licensing and registration……..this would have been their dream come true……the long awaited massacre that would give them everything they wanted for gun control….since Sandy Hook fizzled on the gun control front….

But no………..

It had to happen in Europe…..the one place the anti gun extremist nuts have been praising and worshiping for all of their gun control and their low gun murder rate…..every time we had a mass shooting the gun grabbers on U.S. would point out Europe….Europe, Europe, Europe….and why can't we grab guns like they did….

And then this happened….with all of their gun control….and everything I have been saying came true……and everything the other supporters of the 2nd Amendment here on U.S. message board also came true…….

And so they had no way to exploit 128 dead people murdered with actual "assault rifles"…….and now, no matter how much they try to say that Europe has as many guns as Texas and they are gunslingers just like Texas……they can't make that pig fly……..

They cried themselves to sleep every night since Friday…..and not over the dead, but over the lost chance at more gun control here in the U.S…...

 

[2aguy]

You changed the point from having guns to shooting them

Well cars aren't causing accidents while in the garage. The comparison has to be done with actual use obviously.

And guns aren't causing accidents sitting on a table…or in the holster, or in the safe….

And if you have a gun in the home and a car…odds are you will be killed by the car….

Unless you are using the car while shooting. When in use guns are far more dangerous.

Actually, no they aren't…they have a very narrow area that you have to pay attention to, and if your finger isn't on the trigger it isn't going to fire…..

We let 16 year old kids take cars onto busy streets with pedestrians, other cars, bike riders…..cars are far more dangerous and we let kids drive them all by themselves without supervision…cars kill more kids than guns do.

Cars kill by accident

Guns kill on purpose

Yes…in 2014 criminals using gun illegally, intentionally used a gun to kill 8,124 people

Cars, being used legally, accidentally killed 35,000 people….too bad more people aren't killing people with cars intentionally…they would kill less people….

Is that your point?

 

[2aguy]

Did I say anything that would suggest that? In my State anyone who can legally own a gun can carry one concealed in their car, no permit needed.

Then what was the point of your question?

You changed the point from having guns to shooting them

Well cars aren't causing accidents while in the garage. The comparison has to be done with actual use obviously.

Whenever a point is made, you just make a poor attempt to move the goalposts

An honest comparison is moving the goal posts? I said based on use from the very start.

That isn't an accurate comparison…and even doing that….people using guns according to design accidentally kill 505 people.

People driving cars according to design kill over 35,000……

If you could use a gun to get to work it would be safer…..

 

[OldLady]

What happened in Paris makes us all want to bomb something or dream of being there to shoot the bad guys! Of course it does! And everytime there's a mass shooting, Second Amendment defenders say "if they had only been carrying...." But I'm still waiting to hear of a time when a mass shooting was stopped or nipped in the bud by an armed citizen. Surely, if that is the answer, it will have happened plenty of times, considering how many mass shootings we've had and how many gun carrying folks live in this country. Why has it never stopped a mass shooting yet?

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

If his gun jammed how did he commit suicide…..the concealed carrier was there first, not the police.

[

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.[/QUOTE]


And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

>300,000,000 guns in the US
8142 gun-related murders (2014)
>99.99729% of the guns in the US are NOT used to commit murder
For every gun used to commit murder, 37,000 are not.

On what basis do you make your claim that "weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand"?

 

[2aguy]

What happened in Paris makes us all want to bomb something or dream of being there to shoot the bad guys! Of course it does! And everytime there's a mass shooting, Second Amendment defenders say "if they had only been carrying...." But I'm still waiting to hear of a time when a mass shooting was stopped or nipped in the bud by an armed citizen. Surely, if that is the answer, it will have happened plenty of times, considering how many mass shootings we've had and how many gun carrying folks live in this country. Why has it never stopped a mass shooting yet?

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

If his gun jammed how did he commit suicide…..the concealed carrier was there first, not the police.

[

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.[/QUOTE]


Actually, if you look at the facts in the issue…..there are over 320 million guns in private hands……with over 13 million people carrying them for self defense…..

in 2013 there were only 505 accidental gun deaths.

and criminals used guns to murder only 8,124 people out of 320 million people….so 319,991.867 guns were not used to murder anyone…

What we really have is an isolated situation where the majority of our gun crime is committed by career criminals who murder other criminals in tiny, small block areas of our inner cities…..

So if you look at the actual situation, we don't have a gun problem…we have a criminal problem…something that needs to be focused on rather than normal gun owners who don't shoot other people.

 

[Brain357]

Then what was the point of your question?

You changed the point from having guns to shooting them

Well cars aren't causing accidents while in the garage. The comparison has to be done with actual use obviously.

Whenever a point is made, you just make a poor attempt to move the goalposts

An honest comparison is moving the goal posts? I said based on use from the very start.

That isn't an accurate comparison…and even doing that….people using guns according to design accidentally kill 505 people.

People driving cars according to design kill over 35,000……

If you could use a gun to get to work it would be safer…..

No because once you calculate that cars are used millions of times more than guns, the rate of accidents for guns is way higher than cars.

 

[Brain357]

What happened in Paris makes us all want to bomb something or dream of being there to shoot the bad guys! Of course it does! And everytime there's a mass shooting, Second Amendment defenders say "if they had only been carrying...." But I'm still waiting to hear of a time when a mass shooting was stopped or nipped in the bud by an armed citizen. Surely, if that is the answer, it will have happened plenty of times, considering how many mass shootings we've had and how many gun carrying folks live in this country. Why has it never stopped a mass shooting yet?

Google Oregon Mall shooter. Guns are used about 2 million times a year for defensive purposes, in most cases a shot is never fired. A bad guy just knowing you're armed will usually send them scurrying for safer ground, because they are basically cowards.

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

If his gun jammed how did he commit suicide…..the concealed carrier was there first, not the police.

[

Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon

OK Texas, I looked up your Oregon Mall shooter. The citizen never shot (probably for good reason). The reason the shooter commited suicide was most likely that his gun was jammed when the police arrived. One questionable incident from three years ago is all you've got? That's actually sad. It's certainly not enough to convince me that arming more citizens will stop the violence.

And here is the Oregon Mall shooter……

8. Clackamas Town Center Mall


Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

2aGuy, thank you for the list of 12. Enlightening.

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.[/QUOTE]

You better check those with another source. Most of that list aren't really stopping mass shootings.

 

[2aguy]

yeah...because the gun owner stopped them before they murdered enough people to qualify......would you prefer they waited till they shot and killed 4 people( the old definition) and then stopped them?

 

[kaz]

You changed the point from having guns to shooting them

Well cars aren't causing accidents while in the garage. The comparison has to be done with actual use obviously.

Whenever a point is made, you just make a poor attempt to move the goalposts

An honest comparison is moving the goal posts? I said based on use from the very start.

That isn't an accurate comparison…and even doing that….people using guns according to design accidentally kill 505 people.

People driving cars according to design kill over 35,000……

If you could use a gun to get to work it would be safer…..

No because once you calculate that cars are used millions of times more than guns, the rate of accidents for guns is way higher than cars.

And when you add in that guns prevent way more people from being shot than are shot by them accidentally then your argument is deluged

 

[kaz]

yeah...because the gun owner stopped them before they murdered enough people to qualify......would you prefer they waited till they shot and killed 4 people( the old definition) and then stopped them?

Yes, he would

 

[OldLady]

I am alarmed by what a lot of violent nut jobs we are creating in America, and I would very much like to see that stop, as probably everyone on this message board would. Gun control or even gun abolishment won't be the whole answer. If it is the only solution we try, it is not going to work. But some of us believe that weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand.

>300,000,000 guns in the US
8142 gun-related murders (2014)
>99.99729% of the guns in the US are NOT used to commit murder
For every gun used to commit murder, 37,000 are not.

On what basis do you make your claim that "weapons ownership in this country has gotten a bit out of hand"?

 

[Brain357]

yeah...because the gun owner stopped them before they murdered enough people to qualify......would you prefer they waited till they shot and killed 4 people( the old definition) and then stopped them?

Last time I read through the list I recall many were done by the time the armed hero showed up. Like the first one the kid was in his car leaving I believe. When reading things from gun sources it's important to compare their claims to real sources.

 

[Brain357]

Well cars aren't causing accidents while in the garage. The comparison has to be done with actual use obviously.

Whenever a point is made, you just make a poor attempt to move the goalposts

An honest comparison is moving the goal posts? I said based on use from the very start.

That isn't an accurate comparison…and even doing that….people using guns according to design accidentally kill 505 people.

People driving cars according to design kill over 35,000……

If you could use a gun to get to work it would be safer…..

No because once you calculate that cars are used millions of times more than guns, the rate of accidents for guns is way higher than cars.

And when you add in that guns prevent way more people from being shot than are shot by them accidentally then your argument is deluged

But you have no real basis for that claim.

 

[OldLady]

No citizen needs AR-15's and AK-47's that hold dozens of bullets without reloading. Nor do we need flame throwers and grenade launchers. They were developed for the military to kill the most people in the shortest amount of time, and they are legal in much of the US. AR-15's were used in the Newtown slaughter and the Aurora shooting, legally procured. They did what they were designed to do--kill lots of people in a very short time. AK-47's are in such high demand, we've started producing them in the US since the Russian model was banned. That was bin-Laden's favorite.
Someone will no doubt start spouting a bunch of numbers at me, but as much as I want to understand both sides of this issue, these type of guns seem to be just plain 'overkill.' (pardon the pun).

 

[thanatos144]

Yes...assholes with guns are still able to get around gun control

For you to celebrate 149 dead as an affirmation of your beloved guns is just fucking sick

No..what is sick is that you guys cling to your belief that normal people should just allow themselves to be murdered with no way to fight back...they should just quietly submit to their deaths...because you...you won't let them have a gun to save their lives..

you prefer their deaths to their using guns to stop the murder...you are the sick,one...

You celebrating the fact that your brothers in arms are able to get around gun laws and still kill does nothing to support your wet dream of a worldwide dodge city shooting it it in the streets
The fact that you would rather celebrate another victory for your guns than mourn 158 dead shows what a sick pig you are

You celebrate over 70 million killed babies.

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